The Love Triangle Debate thread of KNEEL BEFORE ZOD OR SUFFER HIS WRATH (ignore the opening posts at your peril) (Round 6)

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Danseru-kun

Pro Adventurer
*Pats Quex's back*

Awww I really understand how you feel. Well I'm the one who put my Japanese's friends translations and gets questioned and bombarded with fallacious arguments. My friend said the line is only used for a koibito, yet for some reason it still doesn't work and I'm deceiving people.

And... I was the one who posted how Risa thought Cloti is a married couple and all of us know that's just a dimple misreading yet someone comes in the Cloti tag calls me misleading for claiming Cloud is Tifa's husbando.

And... how the simple mistake of changing josei to onna, despite the whole text being shown to Risa makes the sentence's meaning different. Because you know, changing it to josei automatically removes the romantic implications even if I posted online examples of it only being romantic.

I invited all these "critics" to debate with me in here. No one dares to.

And now.... Risa's authenticity is being questioned. And there are some quotes in the character tags calling out and indirectly referring to me as someone "exiting the debate" and I was called a "cowardly, rabid dog with fleas."

And it doesn't even include the time where Cali accuses me of dissing Clerith for... loving Clack friendship O_o

So Quex, save yourself and that's a wise decision. As for me, let me just say I've been through so much I don't care anymore.

^_^
 

Strangelove

AI Researcher
AKA
hitoshura
A week or so after I posted the koui lines and the flood of feelings special night thingy the "fleeting and immature" love is spammed in the character tags disregarding the quote saying they have feelings for each for years. Now with the Squinoa, Celes/Locke thingy I wonder what will be the tactic....
judging from the past, it will be to say that cloud/tifa's situation is completely different

or ignore it and point out something else, whatever
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
And now.... Risa's authenticity is being questioned. And there are some quotes in the character tags calling out and indirectly referring to me as someone "exiting the debate" and I was called a "cowardly, rabid dog with fleas."

Is it STILL going on?

*Checks Cloud Strife tag*...



I'm getting a little suspicious at these "anons" who keep messaging her the same question "Show me the translation" "Show me the translation" "Show me the translation!" yet when I post in the same tags for anyone to ask me about translations, I get nothing...

Japanese is a very complex language, you have to use all words present to accurately translate something, and TLS has not done that. My sister, however, has.

I wish she'd stop saying "TLS" as if we all collectively agreed on Tres' translation. I have my own and Hito has his own, nothing has been posted on the main page or anything. How did Tres become the representation of the entirety of TLS...

anyone?
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
dimple misreading

How does one Misread a Dimple?
I know this is literally a keyspace typo, but I think at this point, mockery is a valid option. Accuse them of misreading your dimples and not recognizing the freckle.

judging from the past, it will be to say that cloud/tifa's situation is completely different

But Hito, THE PAST DOESN'T MATTER.
Remember?

Is it STILL going on?

*Checks Cloud Strife tag*...



I'm getting a little suspicious at these "anons" who keep messaging her the same question "Show me the translation" "Show me the translation" "Show me the translation!" yet when I post in the same tags for anyone to ask me about translations, I get nothing...

Sudden and suspicious people clamoring in support of Cali or someone claimed to be her sister or simply echoing her own points? Where have I seen THAT before?

I wish she'd stop saying "TLS" as if we all collectively agreed on Tres' translation. I have my own and Hito has his own, nothing has been posted on the main page or anything. How did Tres become the representation of the entirety of TLS...

anyone?

Idunno. Can I call her Pink Hell if she's gonna call Tres TLS? Because I have many nasty and furthermore true things I could say about Cali and if we get to smear whole forums based on the words of one person, then hooboy.

I mean, to start with, we can actually go into her failure to understand her own birth language and move from there, and getting to accuse a whole forum of that by one of its member's own logic is just so deliciously cruel.
 

Strangelove

AI Researcher
AKA
hitoshura
I wish she'd stop saying "TLS" as if we all collectively agreed on Tres' translation. I have my own and Hito has his own, nothing has been posted on the main page or anything. How did Tres become the representation of the entirety of TLS...

anyone?
picking apart one translation (despite an explanation already having been given) and saying 'they all agree' is an easy way out of actually admitting you don't know what you're on about

remind me again, is it 'awaku' (totally unrelated to the near identical 'awaki' for some reason) or 'awa' and the non-existent particle 'ku' now?

because who knows what it will be tomorrow
 

Gym Leader Devil

True Master of the Dark-type (suck it Piers)
AKA
So many names
remind me again, is it 'awaku' (totally unrelated to the near identical 'awaki' for some reason) or 'awa' and the non-existent particle 'ku' now?

because who knows what it will be tomorrow

You know, the LTD has given me a great idea. Let's design a variation on soccer where the goals are motorized and constantly circle the field. You can only get points if you get the ball in when the goal is in the properly colored zone. The same team always "wins" because all the zones are pink.
 

Strangelove

AI Researcher
AKA
hitoshura
You know, the LTD has given me a great idea. Let's design a variation on soccer where the goals are motorized and constantly circle the field. You can only get points if you get the ball in when the goal is in the properly colored zone. The same team always "wins" because all the zones are pink.
sorry

i tried reading that but i got confused because i have never seen a comma used like that before

if you could learn how to speak english properly i think we can have a proper conversation but until then i will call you a meek bint

(what does 'meek' mean again i forget)
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
LTD aside that actually sounds like a really cool idea GLD :monster:
If you know, you actually had the goals move and it was possible for a team to win
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
sorry

i tried reading that but i got confused because i have never seen a comma used like that before

What? That is a common, everyday, ordinary, humdrum, boring, regular, average, unremarkable, dull, standard use of a comma.

Oh, wait, I said that wrong according to our pink friends. I will now rewrite the sentence so that they may understand it.

What? That is a common and also everyday and also ordinary and also humdrum and also boring and also regular and also average and also unremarkable and also dull and also standard use of a comma.

if you could learn how to speak english properly i think we can have a proper conversation but until then i will call you a meek bint

(what does 'meek' mean again i forget)

Depends on who you ask. To some it means 'the humble, pitiful, poor people'
To others, it seems to refer to 'Arrogant, self righteous bastard who think everyone else who doesn't think exactly as they do shall burn'
Or at least that's what I think that's what those fucks mean when they call themselves meek.

LTD aside that actually sounds like a really cool idea GLD :monster:
If you know, you actually had the goals move and it was possible for a team to win

One team can win. Technically. Because the rules are set up so that only they CAN score points. Of course, since they're not able to, I guess you're right, the one team able to score is prevented from doing so by arbitrary rules- including those made up on the spot by members of the pink team, I'm gonna guess- while the team capable of scoring points just simply isn't capable of kicking the ball anywhere near the goal the few times the other team lets them have it.
 

Gym Leader Devil

True Master of the Dark-type (suck it Piers)
AKA
So many names
What? That is a common, everyday, ordinary, humdrum, boring, regular, average, unremarkable, dull, standard use of a comma.

Wow, so it seems even Wanton Cruelty to the Common Comma can be made to serve truth and justice in capable hands. Who knew?

One team can win. Technically. Because the rules are set up so that only they CAN score points. Of course, since they're not able to, I guess you're right, the one team able to score is prevented from doing so by arbitrary rules- including those made up on the spot by members of the pink team, I'm gonna guess- while the team capable of scoring points just simply isn't capable of kicking the ball anywhere near the goal the few times the other team lets them have it.

I almost think my thinly veiled mocking analogy has taken a life of its own now. Let us create this sport, which will need a catchy name.
 

Morana

Pro Adventurer
I'd still do it for the kink factor alone.


In other news, as I flipped around the Memorial Ultimania before work, I noticed the "communicates their feelings" phrase that was previously used for Cloud/Tifa and Celes/Locke also be used for Squall/Rinoa, and the "reveals their feelings" phrase that was used once or twice for Cloud/Tifa being used for Zell/Pigtailed Girl. Didn't have time to transcribe them, but text and pictures will follow later tonight.

Now we are getting somewhere. There are no canon couples in FF. SE fooled us all. Not cool, SE, not cool.:offended:
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves

Danseru-kun

Pro Adventurer
Is it STILL going on?

*Checks Cloud Strife tag*...

Quex it never ends. BTW what I was referring was the general treatment of me, not really the current posts in the tags. Well, I don't check Cloud or Tifa's tags anymore.


I wish she'd stop saying "TLS" as if we all collectively agreed on Tres' translation. I have my own and Hito has his own, nothing has been posted on the main page or anything. How did Tres become the representation of the entirety of TLS...

This was actually my fault, I made a post saying that the translators here agree in "faint and young" but what I meant is that you're not disputing over that translation while you guys disagree on fleeting and immature.

Well we have to get used to it. To them, TLS has always been represented by this LTD thread and the posters they find most offensive.
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
OH I know we agree on Faint and Young but we don't all agree on "childhood awakening of love" ... me and Hito said something different, and your friend did as well so... again how did Tres become to represent all of us?



no really how, i want that kind of power :awesome:
 

Danseru-kun

Pro Adventurer
^

They nitpick Tres? LOL the usual tactic. Ignore everything else, take a line out of context. It's the same with treating people. The fact that the Ulti said that Cloud and Tifa have been fancying each other for years disproves the fleeting translation. Now THAT's CONTEXT.
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
Ugh okay, so I wanted to transcribe those things Tres posted tonight but my stomach's been icky all day. I'm worried I might be getting a flu :scared:

Anyways, I can't really stare at all this right now but I finished Squall and Rinoa:

Squall and Rinoa:

ティンバー独立を目指すレジスタンス「森のフクロウ」に身を置く、 人なつっこくて快活な少女。 SeeDとして派遣されたスコールたちと行動をともにし、 自身の当初の目的ではない魔女討伐作戦にも協力。 戦いのさなかイデアから魔女の力を継承してしまい、 自分が世界中の人々の敵となることに恐れを抱くが、 想いを通わせたスコールに守られつつ アルティミシアに立ち向かう。

Gonna lay down and if I feel better I might do more :monster:
 

Danseru-kun

Pro Adventurer
Yeah come on guys transcribe and translate it now, btw here's already my draft for my post. Of course, there are no explantions yet. I need you guys to explain why 想いを通わせる is WAY different from 想いを通わせた and 想いを通わせ that the meaning will be suddenly friendship.We need to acknowledgethe ru and ta.

The draft:

Yeah feelings FTW

(FFVII Ultimania Omega, pg. 15; Cloud’s profile)
最終決戦を前に一時解散を宣言し、飛空艇に残ったティファと想いを通わせる。

“Declares that the team should dissolve in the final hours before the final battle, and communicates his feelings together with Tifa, who remains behind at the airship with him.”

(FFVII Ultimania Omega, pg. 27; Tifa’s profile)
クラウドの提案で一時解散することになるが、飛空艇に残り、クラウドと想いを通わせる。

“When Cloud proposes that the group separates temporarily, she remains behind at the airship and communicates her feelings together with Cloud. “

(Crisis Core Ultimania, pg. 33; Tifa’s profile)
クラウドとは物語の終盤に想いを通わせ、「AC」「DC」の時代は一緒に暮らしている。

“She communicates her feelings together with Cloud in the final stages of the story, and in AC and DC they live together.”


tumblr_inline_mggryiEwne1r1am60.jpg

tumblr_inline_mggrhdZZGe1r1am60.jpg
ティンバー独立を目指すレジスタンス「森のフクロウ」に身を置く、 人なつっこくて快活な少女。 SeeDとして派遣されたスコールたちと行動をともにし、 自身の当初の目的ではない魔女討伐作戦にも協力。 戦いのさなかイデアから魔女の力を継承してしまい、 自分が世界中の人々の敵となることに恐れを抱くが、 想いを通わせたスコールに守られつつ アルティミシアに立ち向かう。


「VI」すれちがいの果てに
帝国の将軍と反帝国組織の一員 — お互いの立場ゆえにすれちがっていたセリスとロックは、長い期間を経てようやく想いを通わせた。
The imperial general and the anti-empire organization member — Celes and Locke’s relation to one another is like ships passing in the night; it’s a long period before they get to communicate their feelings completely.
tumblr_inline_mggrwcdish1r1am60.jpg

(FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania, pg. 118; pg. 120 in the Revised Edition; story summary)
残ったクラウドとティファは、互いへの想いを打ち明け、確かめ合う。

“Cloud and Tifa, who remain, reveal their feelings for each other and confirm them to match.”

(FF 20th Anniversary Ultimania File 2: Scenario, pg. 232; main body of FFVII’s story summary)
そして、ふたり、きりになったクラウドとティファは、残された最後の時間で互いの想いを打ち明け合う。

“And when Cloud and Tifa remain behind alone, in their final hours, they disclose that their feelings for each other match.”
(FFVII Ultimania Omega, pg. 198; story summary)
大切な人の待つ場所へと仲間が散っていき、ふたりきりになたクラドとティファ。残された最後の時間でお互いの想いを打ち明け、そして……。

“When their companions disperse to the places where people important to them await, Cloud and Tifa are the only two to remain behind. They reveal their mutual feelings in their final hours, and…….”
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
Okay, taking a stab at the Squall/Rinoa bit:

ティンバー独立を目指すレジスタンス「森のフクロウ」に身を置く、 人なつっこくて快活な少女。 SeeDとして派遣されたスコールたちと行動をともにし、 自身の当初の目的ではない魔女討伐作戦にも協力。 戦いのさなかイデアから魔女の力を継承してしまい、 自分が世界中の人々の敵となることに恐れを抱くが、 想いを通わせたスコールに守られつつ アルティミシアに立ち向かう。

"A friendly and cheerful young woman, part of the resistance group called the Forest Owls, whose goal is the liberation of Timber. She joins in Squall and co.'s activities when they are dispatched by SeeD, and also participates in the witch assassination plot, which she wasn't supposed to be involved with. During a battle, she inherits the powers of a witch from Edea; she begins to fear that she will become an enemy of the whole world, but Squall communicates his feelings to her and battles Ultimecia to protect her."



Was also looking at the FFX Ultimania Omega, by the way. Tidus and Yuna:

FFX UO pg. 60
----
At the mysterious spring that glitters like the stars, the two kiss and embrace many times, confirming their feelings for one another.

Japanese text:
星をのようにきらめく神秘の泉のなで、ふたりは、互いの想いを確かめ合うかのように幾度も抱擁し、唇を重ねた。

Source photo:
http://i.imgur.com/v9Bxw.jpg
----

Dammit, Square, if you keep using these identical choices of phrasing to describe FF couples, people are going to get the wrong idea about Cloud and Tifa.

Seriously, though, how many other couples do we know of now that these same phrases apply to? Five? Celes/Locke, Squall/Rinoa, Zell/Pigtail Girl, Beatrix/Steiner, and Tidus/Yuna.

Four of them also being featured on the "For the One I Love" page, for fuck's sake. That's almost all the couples on the page!



On the subject of 淡い恋心/"awai koigokoro"
Google searches in Japanese show me this notion of "faint love" being applied to such matters as Filo's crush on Llyud in FFXII: Revenant Wings, Eiko's crush on Zidane in FFIX, Leblanc's love for Nooj in FFX-2, and Mel's feelings for Korcha in Chrono Cross.

In fact, after seeing that Japanese Wikipedia page on Chrono Cross, I decided to look at the Chrono Cross Ultimania and found this in Mel's profile on pg. 38:

----
Although she and Korcha grew up like an older brother and younger sister, she has recently begun carrying puppy love for him, but she tries not to show this in front of him. However, she becomes angry if he appears to be showing interest in other females.

Japanese text:
実の兄妹のように育ってきたコルチャに対、最近淡い恋心を抱きはじめたが、彼の前ではそんなそぶりを見せないようにしている。ただし、コルチャがほかの女性に熱を上げていることは気にかかっている様子。

Source photo:
http://i.imgur.com/fOCi3.jpg
----

So, yeah. It's puppy love. Sorry, Cali, but this "fleeting" business is bullshit. As hito's earlier research shows, the term "awai koigokoro" alone does not indicate whether a love will peter out or grow stronger -- it's just a description of it at a given point in time.
 

Danseru-kun

Pro Adventurer
^ Yess yesss THANKS!

I'll be sleeping now so better get the Zell/Pig-Tail and Beatrix/Steiner done before I wake up! :D

XD

Thanks a lot Tres! Will be posting all of these in tumblr tomorrow. Let me receive whatever wank it generates.

Edit: Please explain to me the meaning of this 互いの]想い を 打ち明け
Because the first one is the Tuna one and the second part is in the other quotes.
 
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Morana

Pro Adventurer
Now that we know why Brahne is there only one question remains. Is it Beatrix/Brahne or Steiner/Brahne?
 

Strangelove

AI Researcher
AKA
hitoshura
I need you guys to explain why 想いを通わせる is WAY different from 想いを通わせた and 想いを通わせ that the meaning will be suddenly friendship.We need to acknowledgethe ru and ta.
i don't know if this is a joke or not and that's really sad

思いを通わせ
used as a conjunction (used more in written and formal language in my experience). you take the stem of the verb you would use to conjugate the 'polite/masu form' of the verb (通わせる becomes 通わせます) and drop the ending.

examples from other quotes in this thread:
SeeDとして派遣されたスコールたちと行動をともにし、 自身の当初の目的ではない魔女討伐作戦にも協力。 戦いのさなかイデアから魔女の力を継承してしまい、 自分が世界中の人々の敵となることに恐れを抱くが、 想いを通わせたスコールに守られつつ アルティミシアに立ち向かう。

し = する = し・ます
しまい = しまう = しまい・ます

星のようにきらめく神秘の泉のなで、ふたりは、互いの想いを確かめ合うかのように幾度も抱擁し、唇を重ねた。

し = する = し・ます

残ったクラウドとティファは、互いへの想いを打ち明け、確かめ合う。

打ち明け = 打ち明ける = 打ち明け・ます


思いを通わせた
i don't really have a big explanation for this, it's just the past tense. here it's modifying スコール, while talking about how rinoa is protected by him. he has already communicated his feelings at this point.

想いを通わせたスコールに守られつつ アルティミシアに立ち向かう


想いを通わせる
if you look at most of these quotes, they use this tense. i can't give an official reason why, it just happens. perhaps because it gives a more immediate nuance, like you're talking from point of view of the time the event is happening. you're in the present, so it feels like you're talking stuff as if it's going on now.


淡い
another usage in the ffvii ultimania omega

page 58, elena's profile:
ツォンに淡い想いを寄せている

ティンバー独立を目指すレジスタンス「森のフクロウ」に身を置く、 人なつっこくて快活な少女。 SeeDとして派遣されたスコールたちと行動をともにし、 自身の当初の目的ではない魔女討伐作戦にも協力。 戦いのさなかイデアから魔女の力を継承してしまい、 自分が世界中の人々の敵となることに恐れを抱くが、 想いを通わせたスコールに守られつつ アルティミシアに立ち向かう。

"A friendly and cheerful young woman, part of the resistance group called the Forest Owls, whose goal is the liberation of Timber. She joins in Squall and co.'s activities when they are dispatched by SeeD, and also participates in the witch assassination plot, which she wasn't supposed to be involved with. During a battle, she inherits the powers of a witch from Edea; she begins to fear that she will become an enemy of the whole world, but Squall communicates his feelings to her and battles Ultimecia to protect her."
my personal reading of this would be 'during the battle' as in the fight as a whole rather than one specific battle. and that it's talking about her facing ultimatia while being protected by squall (守られつつ).


also i did the other two to complete the set

三つ編みの図書委員とのロマンス
教師陣からは問題児あつかいされているものの、生徒やバラムの人々からの人気はそこそこ。なかでも三つ編みの図書委員には好意を持たれており、やがて彼女から想いを打ち明けられる。

Romance with the Library Committee Member With Braids
Despite being seen as a trouble maker by the faculty, he is fairly popular with the students and people of Ballam. In particular the member of the library committee with the braided hair likes him, and eventually she reveals her feelings to him.

[halp i don't know ffviii names in english]


恋のはじまりはカンちがいから
ベアトリクスにとってスタイナーはただ一度敗北を喫した相手であり、双方ともに対抗意識を燃やしていた。だが、エーコのラブレターを互いが互いに宛てたものだとカンちがいして以来、ふたりは意識し合うようになり、エンディングで想いを通わせる。

A Love That Started With A Misunderstanding
To Beatrix, Steiner is the one opponent who has defeated her, and they both harbour a rivalry towards each other. But after mistaking Eiko's love letter for one sent to them from each other, they start to take notice of one another and in the ending make their feelings known.
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
Edit: Please explain to me the meaning of this 互いの]想い を 打ち明け
Honestly this looks to me like "Reveal feelings for each other"... I don't see mutual in there.
also

“And when Cloud and Tifa remain behind alone, in their final hours, they disclose that their feelings for each other match.”
(FFVII Ultimania Omega, pg. 198; story summary)
大切な人の待つ場所へと仲間が散っていき、ふたりきりになたクラドとティファ。残された最後の時間でお互いの想いを打ち明け、そして……。

remember we decided this was not "to match" anymore. This is simply saying they spoke to each other.
 
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