The Love Triangle Debate thread of KNEEL BEFORE ZOD OR SUFFER HIS WRATH (ignore the opening posts at your peril) (Round 6)

Danseru-kun · Jan 10, 2013

Just a little deviation here, was Zack and Aerith's relationship called "platonic in any instance?" I can't remember anything.

The Twilight Mexican · Jan 10, 2013

I believe so, yeah. I don't have the quote offhand, but I remember it giving the impression of a chaste/non-sexual love.

Which is bogus, but whatever. I'll never understand this perception that love is better without sex.

Strangelove · Jan 10, 2013

Quexinos said:
Where is five months coming from BTW?... she told me she's been doing it since 07 O_o

while i have already posted and tres as pointed out which post i saw, although i remember it differently. maybe i was wrong (though i didn't read the date on the post, just the 'posted [x] ago' part).

i could decide to make a post

just like that, and then i'll publish it for all to see

but then i think, my post was really born in the wrong generation

it feels more like a 2010 post, and it has something different to say

and behold, it has travelled to the distant past

the only way you're going to know what the original post said is if someone reblogged it, since reblogs count as their own separate posts and aren't affected by changes to the original

actually maybe that's not the post i saw and it was this one:

http://earswithfoots.tumblr.com/post/28509569314/i-want-to-wish-kubo-sensei-to-get-well-and-tweet

my bad, i wasted 5 minutes making time travelling posts for no reason. but 5 years is a long time to be calling yourself a noobie

from tumblr:

Okay, an honest question here — I’m not saying you’re wrong or accusing you of “lying”, but you’re going to have to explain for me where “Awaku” has ever been translated as “slight” before, because I’ve never seen “Awaku” translated that way personally, also you are still over at TLS questioning where I get “Fleeting” from when the Kanji “淡” alone can mean “fleeting”…? And no, I’m pretty sure a comma is never used alone (when not in a list or parenthetical)…so, it’s not the same thing.

Err…what do you mean makes me feel better? I already told you, I don’t really care except the fact that TLS members are over there questioning and badmouthing my credibility.

where has it been translated as 'slight'? the dictionary.

and i am going to have to say read more english. you have honestly never seen two adjectives separated by a comma? are you seriously saying this, or are you just trolling now and you're tired of making a decent show of it? here's a bunch of grammar links from the first page of google:

http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/commas.htm

Use a comma to separate coordinate adjectives. You could think of this as "That tall, distinguished, good looking fellow" rule (as opposed to "the little old lady"). If you can put an and or a but between the adjectives, a comma will probably belong there. For instance, you could say, "He is a tall and distinguished fellow" or "I live in a very old and run-down house." So you would write, "He is a tall, distinguished man" and "I live in a very old, run-down house." But you would probably not say, "She is a little and old lady," or "I live in a little and purple house," so commas would not appear between little and old or between little and purple.

http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/607/02/

6. Use commas to separate two or more coordinate adjectives that describe the same noun. Be sure never to add an extra comma between the final adjective and the noun itself or to use commas with non-coordinate adjectives.

Coordinate adjectives are adjectives with equal ("co"-ordinate) status in describing the noun; neither adjective is subordinate to the other. You can decide if two adjectives in a row are coordinate by asking the following questions:

Does the sentence make sense if the adjectives are written in reverse order?
Does the sentence make sense if the adjectives are written with and between them?
If you answer yes to these questions, then the adjectives are coordinate and should be separated by a comma. Here are some examples of coordinate and non-coordinate adjectives:

He was a difficult, stubborn child. (coordinate)
They lived in a white frame house. (non-coordinate)
She often wore a gray wool shawl. (non-coordinate)
Your cousin has an easy, happy smile. (coordinate)
The 1) relentless, 2) powerful 3) summer sun beat down on them. (1-2 are coordinate; 2-3 are non-coordinate.)
The 1) relentless, 2) powerful, 3) oppressive sun beat down on them. (Both 1-2 and 2-3 are coordinate.)

http://voices.yahoo.com/understanding-using-english-grammar-lesson-in-278109.html

3. Use a comma to separate three or more adjectives that do not build upon each other.

Example: The woman was young, thin, and pretty.

Not: She wore a light pink silk dress.

http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/commas.asp

Rule 2
Use a comma to separate two adjectives when the word and can be inserted between them.

Examples:
He is a strong, healthy man.
We stayed at an expensive summer resort. You would not say expensive and summer resort, so no comma.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comma#Between_adjectives

Between adjectives
A comma is used to separate coordinate adjectives; that is, adjectives that directly and equally modify the following noun. Adjectives are considered coordinate if the meaning would be the same if their order were reversed or if and were placed between them. For example:
The dull, incessant droning but the cute little cottage.
The devious lazy red frog suggests there are lazy red frogs (one of which is devious), while the devious, lazy red frog does not carry this connotation.

http://www.myenglishteacher.net/usingcommas.html

3. If there are two or more adjectives in a row.

Tim is a handsome, smart man.

http://www.ego4u.com/en/cram-up/writing/comma?06

Use a comma if the adjectives are equally important and give similar kinds of information.

Example: It was a cold, windy morning.

Don’t use a comma if the adjectives are not equally important or give different kinds of information.

Example: He was a clever young man.

also there were numerous examples of 'slight [faint]' meanings here. (even if it doesn't say 'slight' exactly, the meaning is still there.)

But, dude, its not “淡い恋心” its “淡く幼い恋心が” there’s a big difference in being that there’s “awaku osanai etc. etc.” there not just straight to cutting it up to “awai koigokoro”.

I get “fleeting” because not only is it used like that in this song, this online dictionary and others but because that’s also what the kanji 淡 can mean. But I thought you already said you saw yourself where it came from…and now you don’t?

That’s not exactly what I meant. I asked why you (plural) would combine (because that’s what I read was done here—correct me if I read that wrong?) two separate words into “childhood”? I would like to know how you came about it and why, that is all.

tres has already explained why he did it, but two words weren't combined into 'childhood'. if any were combined, it was the 'awakening of love' being a combination of 淡い and 恋心. 'childhood' simply corresponds to 幼い in the original sentence.

I haven’t seen “combing/condensing” words in any language I have looked into, so it made me curious as to why it was being done.

it's not a language thing, though. it's a translation issue. (unless you're talking about summarising a point and changing the wording slightly.) sometimes what works in one language is overly wordy in another, or you have a limitation on space, or whatever reason might be that you drop certain elements when translating it.

admittedly i am confused by what statements were directed where because i only follow what was linked to me or i found through other links within those. but if the problem was omitting or condensing words then there were three translations provided here that don't do any of that.

Hawkeye said:
By the way, I do now realize that "to match" wasn't the best way to word 合う in the English translation since hito later explained to me that it's describing the actions of Cloud and Tifa there ("together" then) rather than the nature of their feelings -- but when confronted in that thread, Cali retracted her claim that I was wrong about "to match" and instead said that I'd just assigned a context that didn't apply and "did it all wrong."

this is what annoys me when people call me biased. if i only wanted to make cloti look good, why would i have disagreed with tres a bunch of times on 'confirming that their feelings match' (which given one of them is in love, would mean they both are).

there is only one ship i would lie for

square never said fang and vanille were like sisters, except if you use the 'like randy lesbian nuns' definition of 'sisters'

octo said:
ふたりで過ごした運命の一夜

wait a minute, because i didn't see this quote before

if a trading card saying that cloud and aerith share a 'magical date in the city of desire' is proof

what the hell is 'a night of destiny spent together'? (a night described as special and full of emotion)

does that cancel each other out, i don't know how shipping works

Danseru-kun · Jan 10, 2013

I found the Zerith quote ^^

http://nunuu.livejournal.com/pics/catalog/5922/368576 少女エアリスとの出会い

任務途中で伍番街スラムの教会に落下したザックスは、教会で花を手入れしていた少女エアリスと運命的な出会いを果たす。ただ一緒にいるだけでお互いに満たされていく、プラトニックな恋。その幸せな日々は、いつまでもつづくかと思われたが……。
・自身のつらさをおくびにも出さず、明るく生きるエアリス。彼女とザックスは、しだいに離れがたい間柄となっていく。

"Having fallen into the sector 5 slum church during a mission, Zack has a fateful meeting with Aerith, a young girl who was tending to flowers in the church. [They share] a platonic love, satisfied just to be together. Those joyous days seemed like they would last forever……

Aerith lives her life cheerfully, never letting her own pain show. She and Zack gradually become hard to get away from each other."

So you guys think it's platonic?

Strangelove · Jan 10, 2013

i can't say anything

because that was me :sadpanda:

(post and translation, not the scans though)

but i will say stuff anyways. when they say 'platonic' i assume it just means that they aren't pawing at each other and making out/having sex (from the line about being satisfied just being with each other)

square just seem to like that kind of chaste love

like

fang/vanille

The Twilight Mexican · Jan 10, 2013

Fang and Vanille are about as chaste as I am with any vagina that's willing. They were reunited for all of two seconds before Fang was up the ginger's skirt.

Strangelove · Jan 10, 2013

lesbians aren't like that, they haven't the heart for such endeavours

Gym Leader Devil · Jan 10, 2013

Really? The lesbian couple I used to hang out with back in OK musta been atypical then.

Ryushikaze · Jan 10, 2013

Danseru-kun said:
Just a little deviation here, was Zack and Aerith's relationship called "platonic in any instance?" I can't remember anything.

Yes, but in Katakana, and called Koi in kanji, literally in the same sentence. It's the weirdest thing. I can only assume it just means they never got anywhere, because Platonic and Passionate love do not square.

The Twilight Mexican · Jan 10, 2013

Maybe that's why Zack had to cheat on Aerith, though: bitch wouldn't put out. Elmyra didn't teach her that if you keep a man happy at home, he's not as likely to roam.

Gym Leader Devil · Jan 10, 2013

How old was Aerith during Crisis Core again? That could easily be a factor here.

Strangelove · Jan 10, 2013

16 when she first appears, 22 by the end.

Ryushikaze · Jan 10, 2013

Gym Leader Devil said:
How old was Aerith during Crisis Core again? That could easily be a factor here.

IIRC, 15-17 during the parts where she and Zack are actually dating (Maybe 18, I forget off the top of my head when Zack went to Nibel), and 22 in the epilogue.

Addendum: 16? Must have been after her birthday that year, then.

Danseru-kun · Jan 10, 2013

The timline puts the length of their relationship 1 year and 5 months long maximum.

Splintered · Jan 10, 2013

Claudia Wolf said:
lesbians aren't like that, they haven't the heart for such endeavours

Apparently from the Memorial Ultimania.

LOOKS JUST LIKE SISTERS

Strangelove · Jan 10, 2013

brb ordering ten copies

The Twilight Mexican · Jan 10, 2013

I've said it before, I'll say it again: I want to meet some sisters who carry on like that. Sounds like the makings of a fun weekend.

Lex · Jan 10, 2013

The more I play XIII, the more I genuinely feel that Fang and Vanille are actually a canon couple. At this point I'd be more surprised if they weren't. Has that been confirmed anywhere?

Dashell · Jan 10, 2013

Hawkeye said:
I've said it before, I'll say it again: I want to meet some sisters who carry on like that. Sounds like the makings of a fun weekend.

What if they were ugly sisters? :awesome:

Vendel · Jan 10, 2013

Quexinos said:
What if they were ugly sisters?

Just bag 'em.

The Twilight Mexican · Jan 10, 2013

I'd still do it for the kink factor alone.

In other news, as I flipped around the Memorial Ultimania before work, I noticed the "communicates their feelings" phrase that was previously used for Cloud/Tifa and Celes/Locke also be used for Squall/Rinoa, and the "reveals their feelings" phrase that was used once or twice for Cloud/Tifa being used for Zell/Pigtailed Girl. Didn't have time to transcribe them, but text and pictures will follow later tonight.

Strangelove · Jan 10, 2013

wow that must be super embarrassing

embarrassing for you, tres, when someone new magically appears and proves you wrong

again

Ryushikaze · Jan 10, 2013

Hawkeye said:
I'd still do it for the kink factor alone.

In other news, as I flipped around the Memorial Ultimania before work, I noticed the "communicates their feelings" phrase that was previously used for Cloud/Tifa and Celes/Locke also be used for Squall/Rinoa, and the "reveals their feelings" phrase that was used once or twice for Cloud/Tifa being used for Zell/Pigtailed Girl. Didn't have time to transcribe them, but text and pictures will follow later tonight.

So, you're saying NONE of these couples are romantic? Because I mean, if it gets used for C/T it HAS to be purely friendship, or even outright disdain, so by extension, these other 'couples' must also loath and barely tolerate each other.

Danseru-kun · Jan 10, 2013

Hawkeye said:
I'd still do it for the kink factor alone.

In other news, as I flipped around the Memorial Ultimania before work, I noticed the "communicates their feelings" phrase that was previously used for Cloud/Tifa and Celes/Locke also be used for Squall/Rinoa, and the "reveals their feelings" phrase that was used once or twice for Cloud/Tifa being used for Zell/Pigtailed Girl. Didn't have time to transcribe them, but text and pictures will follow later tonight.

Yesss yesss come on Tres poast them and I'll post them in tumblr and the tags will be in chaos. I'm curious on what the campaign against it would be in the character tags.

A week or so after I posted the koui lines and the flood of feelings special night thingy the "fleeting and immature" love is spammed in the character tags disregarding the quote saying they have feelings for each for years. Now with the Squinoa, Celes/Locke thingy I wonder what will be the tactic....

Dashell · Jan 10, 2013

Eh I ain't gonna post anything on Tumblr anymore... at least not LTD related... I'll watch and be all "OMG LOL!" :awesomonster:

when it happens, but I really don't think I want to watch as someone starts to rant about how I left out a word and am therefore unreliable and who would you trust and all this stuff again?

I know I know, I did it to Cali first on her tumblr, but I didn't think my essay was mean or anything... was it? I just wanted to explain why the phrase was translated that way. I knew I'd get myself in trouble but I did it anyway. I don't know if I should be mad at myself or someone else at this point. Or if I should even be mad at all... I feel confused, hurt, annoyed and like I have something to prove all at the same time...

Well here, I'll let Twilight explain it. Take it Twi:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LQk-DaZSzU#t=1m17s

The Love Triangle Debate thread of KNEEL BEFORE ZOD OR SUFFER HIS WRATH (ignore the opening posts at your peril) (Round 6)

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