The Love Triangle Debate thread of KNEEL BEFORE ZOD OR SUFFER HIS WRATH (ignore the opening posts at your peril) (Round 6)

[Farron]

- Says that it's all up to choice

- Tries to force Clerith down everybody's throat


Hmm O kay. Makes sense. not rlly.

 

[Fangu]

I think with this topic certain things become sort of talking points that get brought out when people need a list making. You get the summary of it but the greater context is lost (...)

This pretty much sums up the entire LTD for me, and any shipping wars, really. Why not enjoy a story for the story itself and for the development in the characters, it makes the whole experience so much more pleasurable. I love the squeeing moments I have when I'm reading a story or playing a game when I detect romantic interest in one or more of the characters, but really I find that in the end those feelings are often more destructive than they are good for anything. They're good for the imagination and for writing smut fanfic, but they make me lose track of the bigger picture and drive me into obsession.

*ahem* my point is... there was no point. Or, well I guess it was that going into details and finding "proof" doesn't really resolve anything. Obviously. Look a the page count of this monster.

 

[Wolfmania]

Cloud: "Aerith is here....and so is Sephiroth."
Cid: "Wa, wa, wait a minute. You serious!?"
Tifa "But how can you tell?"
Cloud "...It's not an excuse. I feel it in my soul." ~Final Fantasy VII

Hm. I must ask. Why is this often used as something of a "point" for Aerith? Sephiroth is in that quote too, being "felt" in Cloud's soul.

This is less of a unique established spiritual connection, but more on the fact that Cloud can probably sense souls. I mean, geez, I'm pretty sure he sensed the Lifestream from, like, a dimension away in Tactics. Sensing Sephiroth and Aerith's souls from that distance shouldn't be much of a bother.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

He can feel her in his soul~ except when he calls her "mother".

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

That's when their spirit sex is at its kinkiest, actually.

Hm. I must ask. Why is this often used as something of a "point" for Aerith? Sephiroth is in that quote too, being "felt" in Cloud's soul.[/[/

Yeah, Sephiroth's presence in that quote removes any unique quality there may have been to Cloud being able to sense her presence. Added to the fact that Seph wanted Cloud to find her so that he could force Chocobo Head to murder her ... well, the most likely explanation is that Sephiroth himself was guiding Cloud to Aerith.

 

[Wolfmania]

Added to the fact that Seph wanted Cloud to find her so that he could force Chocobo Head to murder her ... well, the most likely explanation is that Sephiroth himself was guiding Cloud to Aerith.

Wow, I never saw it in that perspective, but it's certainly fits.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

It really does. When they first get to the Ancients' city, Cloud doesn't know where to look for her any better than anybody else.

But then they take a nap, he can hear her voice and sense Sephiroth, a door that wasn't open before he went to sleep now is (sound familiar? Shin-Ra HQ)? Yeah, Seph led him to her.

 

[BlankBeat]

I just wanna say something. BlankBeat, you keep saying Cloud and Tifa living together is not proof of a romantic relationship because Cid and Sierra lived together in FFVII but weren't in a relationship. However, notice how FFVII goes out of its way to specify that Cid and Sierra aren't in a romantic relationship, whereas neither AC/C nor Episode Tifa bothers to specify whether or not Cloud and Tifa are in a romantic relationship. This is because when a man and a woman who aren't related live together, it's generally safest to assume they're in a romantic relationship, to the point where even Cloud does this regarding Cid and Sierra in FFVII, unless specified or implied otherwise. And even then, one of the conversations between Barret and Cid in Episode Barret very strongly implies Cloud and Tifa ARE, in fact, in a romantic relationship.

What's funny is that Cid and Shera get married after living together, which unequivocally tells us that they are a romantic couple. Cloud and Tifa never get married or do anything that is romantic after the HAHW scene. What evidence do you have that they are a romantic couple after the HAHW scene? Cid and Shera get married. That's their proof. What is the proof for Cloud and Tifa?

I agree that it is *USUALLY* safe to assume that when a man and a woman are living together, it is usually the case that they are in a romantic relationship.

But what complicates this typical assumption in the case of Cloud and Tifa is...
A: The place Cloud and Tifa reside in has *always* been home-base for those that reside in Midgar.
B: Typically, romantic couples sleep in the same room, yet we are shown that Cloud has a bed in his room.
C: The family formed was formed with Barret and Barret's daughter.
D: Most families that are formed are formed from a romantic place. This is not the case with Cloud and Tifa's situation.
E: Nomura has no clue if Cloud and Tifa are in a relationship.
F: We know that Cloud and Tifa are going through issues because of Nojima's premise, what we see with our own eyes, and Tifa wondering if Cloud loves her.
G: Cloud visits the Church of Tifa's love rival and Tifa get's jealous about it (which proves that Cloud visiting Aerith's Church has romantic undertones, especially when you consider Cloud's declaration about meeting Aerith at the end of FFVII)
H: The *ADVENT CHILDREN* relationship chart lists Cloud and Tifa as "childhood friends" *NOT* "romantic partners" or "lovers"

All of these reasons make it clear that Cloud and Tifa living together (at Seventh Heaven in particular) is very different than the way traditional romantic couples live together.

--------------------

While we're on the subject of SE's intentions, keep in mind the above is also removed in Advent Children Complete.

I know this. Cloud is still seen riding through flower fields that are stated to represent Aerith in ACC.

I've already responded to your point here:

During the ending of ACC, the yellow and white flowers on the side of the road are still there during the credits. Nomura stated in the Reunion Files that yellow and white flowers are the colors of the flowers in Aerith's church. SE also states that flowers have "always" represented Aerith.

So although the ending of ACC is not as obvious as the ending of AC, I believe ACC still leaves viewers with the final impression that Cloud is still searching for ways to be with Aerith. SE knows that the credits are the final images viewers see, and since the credits happen after everything that had transpired before it, it is only reasonable to assume that anything new shown in the credits happens AFTER the events that came before it.

Yes, Cloud runs a delivery service. But the flowers on the side of the road continue to represent Aerith according to SE. They didn't show Cloud riding on a road that was surrounded by dirt or grass, they specifically chose to show Cloud riding through flower fields that represent Aerith (according to SE). The same flower fields that we see Cloud and Aerith connecting through during AC. The credits don't leave us with the final impression that Cloud is with Tifa and the children, the final impression we are left with is that Cloud is by himself, riding through flower fields, still searching for ways to continue connecting with Aerith.

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Strangelove, did you see my response to your post about the "mysterious feeing" quote? You didn't acknowledge if you did. so here it is again in-case you missed it:

You are assuming this mysterious feeling happened in a vacuum.

This mysterious feeling came after we know Cloud thought that paying 1 gil for Aerith's smile was a "good purchase" and that her eyes were "impressive".

Why would SE say all of that about Cloud's initial meeting with Aerith if it wasn't meant to be taken romantically? It's not that hard to read between the lines.

THEN, after Cloud and Aerith's initial meeting where Cloud leaves with a "mysterious" feeling (while thinking Aerith's eyes were "impressive" and that her smile was a good purchase) Cloud agrees to be Aerith's bodyguard for the price of one date.

THEN, Cloud has a flashback in Aerith's house about having an older girlfriend.

THEN, Cloud and Aerith share a date in the park where the topic of romantic relationships gets brought up.

THEN, Cloud tells Marlene he hopes Aerith likes him.

THEN, Cloud and Aerith share a date at Golden Saucer.

THEN, SE includes a wedding prediction about Cloud and Aerith's future.

Oh, and SE has also tells us that Aerith is Tifa's "love rival" and that Cloud *WAVERS* between two heroines.

It's not that hard to see what this "mysterious" feeling is, especially when you look at the context of everything.

I really think people should stop looking at everything in a vacuum and start looking at everything as a whole. When you look at the order and progression of events, it paints an undeniable picture of romantic attraction between Cloud and Aerith.

--------------------

As for this quote:
"The people she had been close to, such as her adoptive mother, Elmyra, and the comrades she had journeyed with to save the Planet; as well as the people she knew only a little, and those she may have met in the future, but would now never see ― the truth was that she could no longer associate with "living people." ~pg. 578 of the FFVII Ultimania Omega

Despite this quote, Aerith does connect with those who are living. Maybe it is an inconsistency from SE? Maybe it means she can no longer associate with living people the *same way* she did while she was alive?

The fact is -- SE has shown us that Aerith CAN and DOES communicate with the living. Aerith helped Tifa get safely into Cloud's mind using mako, Nomura says Cloud hears Aerith's voice whispering, and Aerith connects with everyone during AC through the use of Great Gospel. We also see Cloud and Aerith connecting spiritually throughout AC in the flower field.

The bottom line is: Aerith is able to connect with the living despite this quote. That means that when it says she can no longer "associate" with living people, it probably means she can't associate with living people like she did when she was alive.

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More on the love beyond death from a post on Tumblr:
"Yuna continued to love Tidus.
Barret continues to love his first wife.
Marlene’s bio-father still loved her bio-mother.
Setzer still loves his first love interest.
Elmyra still loved her husband.
Caius still loves Yeul.
Snow still loves Serah.
Laguna still loves Raine.
Vincent still loves Lucrecia.

There’s probably more but this is just off the top of my head. There is no doubt that there are FF characters that DID move on (like Locke did with Rachel, or Aerith did with Zack, or even how Cloud moved on from his crush on Tifa) but FF has clearly shown that IF they wanted to they don’t HAVE to make any character “move on”.

The way the compilation has played out for Cloud, I’m really not sure he’s ever gonna move on, but more importantly, I don’t think he wants to move on. All Cloud continues to do is seek Aerith and long to be with her.

However, if he did move on (say, because Aerith asked him to) I’m not sure who it would be with. I honestly really ship Cluffie (Cloud/Yuffie)… they’re a lot a like, they get along, they have great banter, and they seem to understand each other. But realistically; if Square were to make Cloud “move on” I think it’d be with a new character all together. And I don’t think that just because I don’t like Cloti, I say that because of what the movie, games, and novellas have shown me.

Case of Tifa showed us Cloud & Tifa not getting along, fighting constantly, ignoring each other, lying, getting annoyed by the other person, laughing at the other person, it showed us Tifa’s jealousy, and Tifa’s doubt, it showed us that Cloud is still hung up on Aerith, that he’s still wanting her, and no one else.

For cryin’ out loud, when Tifa asked Cloud if she could just DRINK with him, what did Cloud do? He gave her a very blunt “NO.” But then he goes off and seeks the peace of Aerith’s presence at her church and is shown trying to “find” her. And that all takes place two years after Cloud and Tifa supposedly “confessed their feelings” to each other.

And then, a year later after Advent Children what do we see in DoC? We see that Cloud and Tifa aren’t acting any different towards each other than any of the other friends. And to make it more obvious just how stunted their romantic growth is; two years after AC (four years after VII) Cloud and Tifa are still not shown making any romantic progression in Case of Denzel.

They simply have not progressed romantically in the span of four years.

People say Cloud has loved Tifa since childhood.
People say Cloud and Tifa are raising a family together like romantic partners.
People say Cloud/Tifa had sex & admitted their supposed love.
People say Cloud is “happy” with Tifa.
People said Cloud and Tifa would be married and having babies by the time Dirge of Cerberus came out.
But if all of that is true, then why not show it? If Square enix is so ballsy as to make a supposed “sex” scene between them *coughnottruecough* then why aren’t they labeled as romantic partners in the relationship charts for Dirge of Cerberus (like Cid & Shera are)? Why isn’t their relationship shown progressing in Case of Denzel (which takes place four years after the OG)?

Besides what some fans interpret romantically, Square Enix has not portrayed Cloud and Tifa “moving on” with each other romantically. They’ve portrayed them as friends, family, but not lovers.

I wish someone could explain to me why—IF Cloud loved Tifa and wanted to be with her—isn’t he with her yet, even though she’s been throwing herself at him for ten years now? Why didn’t he answer her when she asked him if he loved her? Why did he tell her no when she asked to join him for a drink? Why did Cloud ignore her for months on end? Why is Cloud’s promised land the church, the very place associated to Aerith?

What gives?

I mean, he’s supposedly loved her for 10+ years (as claimed by shippers) he’s supposedly had sex with her (another claim), he’s supposedly playing daddy in their family (*sigh* and another claim)… so, why haven’t we gotten a kiss yet?

Come to think of it, why were we just given Cloud and Aerith being depicted as husband and wife? Why is Cloud’s promised land with Aerith? Why did Square go out of their way in the Dirge of Cerberus game manual to write that Cloud could never forget her or in the Japanese version; “engraved in his heart for eternity”? Why say that Cloud has his own undying feeling for Aerith that differs from their friend’s platonic love? Why make Cloud assume that Denzel was a child that Aerith brought to HIM?

And the big question; why define Cloud’s character in regards to Aerith as a “LOVER” if he is supposedly in love with Tifa?

Put simply, there has not been any romantic progression between either of them after 10+ years…

I don’t see any reason to believe that he’ll move on with her, IF Cloud wants to “move on” at all.

I think Cloud’s content with his current life; he’s forever with Aerith (because she’s in his soul), he can see, speak, and interact with her at any time, he’s got his family (of friends), he’s got his friends, and he’s got a pretty calm world around him. I don’t think Cloud wants anything more.

So, for now; I think Cloud will remain in love with her (unless square shows me otherwise)."

My thoughts:
The fact is, we know for a fact that Vincent, Barret, Yuna, and Ashe did not move on/find a new lover.

My overall point is that Cloud and Aerith are not the only Final Fantasy couple to exhibit the theme of love beyond death. Therefore, even if you don't view it as a theme, the big-picture point I'm trying to make is that just because Aerith is dead does not completely stop Cloud and Aerith from continuing a relationship together. Nor does it stop Cloud from continuing to love her.

Cloud and Aerith are shown connecting on a spiritual level throughout AC, SE states Aerith's consciousness lives on inside of Cloud, Cloud visits Aerith's Church before getting Geostigma and Tifa gets jealous when she finds out about it as stated in a passage that outlines her jealousy over Cloud and Aerith's relationship (which suggests that Cloud visiting Aerith's Church has romantic undertones due to Tifa's jealousy), *AND* Cloud is shown searching for Aerith at the end of ACC.

Since there is no undeniable proof of a romantic relationship between Cloud and Tifa after the HAHW scene (in fact, there is *TONS* of evidence to the contrary), and because we see Cloud and Aerith continuing to connect/interact, it is clear that the LTD remains unsolved.

 

[Geostigma]

Literally everything you listed was answered in the last 3 pages with actual quotes that are not misinterpreted.

 

[Selphie Tilmitt]

I don't think it's such a stretch to think Cloud indeed/could/can feel Aerith in his heart/soul if there's already other quotes saying that sometimes he can sense her or that the developers tried to create something where she was by his side in spirit at least, if there's other stuff related to that then I don't think it's such a stretch to think his City of Ancient feelings were genuine. Unless I'm remembering wrong and that scene was also accompanied by something weird/creepy/dark happening which is usual when Cloud is being manipulated or w/e Either way Sephiroth would be using Cloud's feelings for Aerith if that were the case I kind of don't think something like that would really hurt Clerith at all because it would be Sephiroth using Aerith against Cloud, Sephiroth recognizing the significance of this girl in many ways. Basically me thinks Seph knows something

BB, don't you think being in a relationship with Aerith now would hurt Tifa? Why would Cloud and Aerith do something like that to Tifa now? Don't you think it would have a negative impact on the children? What if Cloud wants to have his own flesh and blood children one day? Don't you think Aerith would make sacrifices so Cloud could live a full and normal life? Tifa is her best friend, so I don't think she would want to hurt her. I do think Cloud and Aerith loved each other, and I get loved ones being reunited after death type things, but usually people live life to the fullest in the meantime Also won't Aerith have to return to the planet and become lifestream/be reborn someday? Doesn't she also have a duty as a Cetra/protector of the planet within the lifestream as well? I'm curious as to what you think here

 

[Shadowfox]

Hm. I must ask. Why is this often used as something of a "point" for Aerith? Sephiroth is in that quote too, being "felt" in Cloud's soul.

This is less of a unique established spiritual connection, but more on the fact that Cloud can probably sense souls. I mean, geez, I'm pretty sure he sensed the Lifestream from, like, a dimension away in Tactics. Sensing Sephiroth and Aerith's souls from that distance shouldn't be much of a bother.

I'd also thought that this might be similar to how Tifa, Marlene, and Kadaj have been able to sense Aerith in ACC.

 

[Dashell]

The Ultimania has a quote about this... about how it's similar to how he feels Sephiroth... but I'll be damned if I'll be able to find it... I'll dig around

 

[Geostigma]

The Ultimania has a quote about this... about how it's similar to how he feels Sephiroth... but I'll be damned if I'll be able to find it... I'll dig around

Dont bother. Any evidence that is damning to Clerith goes ignored or misinterpreted.

 

[Dashell]

eh I can't find it anyways... but it says he can sense both Aerith and Sephiroth in the Forgotten City, I know that much...

 

[Selphie Tilmitt]

I'm sure they are not the only ones guilty of such a thing

In any case I'm not sure "damning" either pairing is called for

I don't mind if Que finds/post it. As I said earlier about something Tres said I don't think it would hurt Clerith if it was something to do with Seph manipulating Cloud over Aerith I mean, and come on seriously peeps do you honestly think the bond Cloud has with Aerith and what he has with Sephiroth are the same thing? Aerith is good, they have a close bond on disc one, in sensing Aerith (like he does with Tifa in the lifestream) it's a positive thing, so what if he senses both of them (I think it would wrong to say he never senses Aerith since there's quotes suggesting otherwise) , one's positive, one's negative, if he's sensing Aerith he's sensing someone he's close to, if Seph's doing it he's using Aerith against Cloud. I don't see the problem

Spoiler

 

[Ryushikaze]

I'm sure they are not the only ones guilty of such a thing

In any case I'm not sure "damning" either pairing is called for

I don't mind if Que finds/post it. As I said earlier about something Tres said I don't think it would hurt Clerith if it was something to do with Seph manipulating Cloud over Aerith I mean, and come on seriously peeps do you honestly think the bond Cloud has with Aerith and what he has with Sephiroth are the same thing? Aerith is good, they have a close bond on disc one, in sensing Aerith (like he does with Tifa in the lifestream) it's a positive thing, so what if he senses both of them (I think it would wrong to say he never senses Aerith since there's quotes suggesting otherwise) , one's positive, one's negative, if he's sensing Aerith he's sensing someone he's close to, if Seph's doing it he's using Aerith against Cloud. I don't see the problem

Spoiler

No, they're not the same bond at all, but what I think we're supposed to take from the 'I can sense them' is less 'OMG he's so close to Aerith' and more 'Something's seriously wrong here' especially in retrospect. Something akin to 'Was Sephypoo leading him to Aerith just to use him as the agent of destruction?" (Answer= Yes)


Nah, what I think needs to be stressed is that Aerith is not "uniquely special" if that makes sense. Yes, she "lives on" in Cloud's heart and memories- but she does so in all her friends. Cloud still cherishes her, but so does Tifa. Cloud's feelings for Aerith get a lot of focus than anyone else's for her, but so do Cloud's feelings for Sephiroth get focused on more than Tifa's.

And none of this means he didn't care or didn't like her or didn't dig her... but it does suggest she's not the one true light of his life as BB and her ilk would suggest.

 

[T@ctic]

1.cloud is forced to love aeris romantically although he doesnt want to.

2 tifa loves cloud, but doesnt think cloud wants to hear it for fear of breaking the relationship completely, so she stays his friend.

3 cloud has always loved tifa, but doesnt think tifa wants to hear it for fear for breaking the relationship completely, so he stays her friend.

4. both of them are lost in the twilight zone of mirroring each other's friend zones.

FUN FACT CLOUDXAERIS FANGURLS!

originally it was set for cloud and tifa to sleep together before they fought sephiroth because they thought they were all going to die, but was abandoned for being too "extreme". yep, that right,SUPPOSED TO HAVE SEX. RIGHT IN THE CHOCOBO STABLE.

end of story. now shut up.

 

[jazzflower92]

I can say some Cleriths can be as stubborn some Zutara shippers are about their prefered pairing.They try to find anything to justify their ship while ignoring the official pairing's canon evidence.

 

[BlankBeat]

We see the spiritual connection between Cloud and Aerith begin in this scene:

Aerith: Cloud, can you hear me?
Cloud: Yeah, I hear you. Sorry for what happened.
Aerith: Don't worry about it.
Cloud: ...I can't help it...
Aerith: Oh... Then, why don't you REALLY worry about it? And let me take care of it yourself. So you don't have a breakdown, okay?
Cloud: What is this place?
Aerith: This forest leads to the City of the Ancients... and is called the Sleeping Forest. It's only a matter of time before Sephiroth uses Meteor. That's why I'm going to protect it. Only a survivor of the Cetra, like me, can do it. This secret is just up here. At least it should be. ...I feel it. It feels like I'm being led by something. Then, I'll be going now. I'll come back when it's all over.
Cloud: Aerith?

--Aerith leaves, but Cloud couldn't move towards her--

Sephiroth: Hmm...... She's thinking of interfering? She will be a difficult one, don't you think? We must stop that girl soon.

Cloud interacts with both Aerith and Sephiroth in the Sleeping Forest and discovers that Aerith is attempting to stop Sephiroth. We also learn that Sephiroth is chasing after Aerith to prevent her from summoning Holy. This scene is why Cloud says he can feel both Aerith and Sephiroth in his soul.

After Cloud and Aerith's spiritual connection in the Sleeping Forest, Cloud says he knows that both Aerith and Sephiroth are in the Forgotten City.

Cloud: "I feel it..."
Cid: "Do you know what TIME it is!?"
(Cloud turns to them.)
Cloud: "Aerith is here.
...and so is Sephiroth."
Cid: "Wa, wa, wait a minute. You serious!?"
Tifa: "But how can you tell?"
Cloud: "...It's not an excuse. I feel it in my soul."

What's interesting is that Cloud says he can hear Aerith's voice from the entrance of the Forgotten City, even though Aerith is in an underground temple:

These three scenes make it clear that for whatever reason, Cloud can interact with Aerith in a way that no one else can. This is confirmed even further at the end of the game when Aerith reaches down to Cloud from the sky:

Now, although Aerith is dead, in Maiden of the Planet, there are two lines that suggest Aerith knows she can continue to interact with the living:

"She was told that death was not the demise of life." -Maiden of the Planet
"Aerith knew that death didn't mean to be annihilated." -Maiden of the Planet

These two lines are further supported by these scenes and official quotes:

1. "I tried to create an atmosphere in which she still seems to be by his side - spirit at least." ~Nojima, Reunion Files, pg. 58

2. "As for Cloud... he sees Aerith several times throughout the film. It's not that he sees her because he feels her presence. He sees her because her consciousness lives on inside him." -Nomura

3. "In keeping with the notion that Cloud is in the live action world in the end, we filmed the video for the ending credits in Hawaii. There are fields of flowers on both sides of the road, and the colors - yellow and white - are the same as the flowers in Aerith's church." -Nomura, Reunion Files, pg. 87

4. "She's presented in this movie as Cloud remembers her, and her spirit is still with him - talking to him throughout the film." -Maaya Sakamoto (Aerith's Japanese voice actress), Reunion Files, pg. 58

5. "An answer from the Planet… the Promised Land… I think I can meet her… there." -Cloud Strife

6. "Cloud's friends sent him toward Bahamut like a relay race, and as for the last push---Aerith!" -Final Fantasy VII 10th Anniversary Ultimania, Aerith's profile

7. "The thing which she is unable to hide in her irritation towards Cloud is the fact that he isn't merely dragging the past around, but because that reason might perhaps be related to Aerith.
...
AC: Upon knowing that Cloud had been residing in Aerith's church after leaving the place they had been living in together, her expression becomes complex."
 -Tifa's character profile, 10th Anniversary Ultimania

8. "Since Sephiroth exists, Aerith must exist. There was no doubt about that one." -Nojima, Reunion Files

9.

10.

11. "The voices of two people very dear to him, who are no longer with him. Playfully and kindly, they give him a message: he doesn't belong here yet." -Final Fantasy VII 10th Anniversary Ultimania (Revised Edition) AC Playback

So although Cloud is now free to live his life on Earth with no more guilt or remorse, he will one day reunite with Aerith in the lifestream.

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Here is another post I saw about SE's "love beyond death":

Square-Enix Supports the Idea of Love Beyond Death.

It amuses me how many people will say that Cloud cannot be with Aerith because she is dead and then turn around and say they are fans of Tidus/Yuna from FFX. Tidus and Yuna's love story was directly parallel with that of Cloud and Aerith. Tidus and Yuna's love was based on the concept of loving someone even after they have died. It was also about continuing to love that person and search for a way to be with them again, despite the overwhelming odds. Yuna searched for a way to be with Tidus again (FFX-2) much in the same way Cloud stated that he thought he could "meet" Aerith in the Promise Land at the end of FFVII. Cloud is also portrayed as searching for Aerith and/or meeting Aerith in subsequent games like Kingdom Hearts, Final Fantasy Tactics, and Dissidia Final Fantasy.

Even in FFVII itself, we see other pairings that portray love beyond death. One of these is Vincent and Lucrecia. Years later, on into the Compilation game Dirge of Cerberus, Vincent has not moved on. He is still in love with Lucrecia and often visits a cave where she can be seen, her image preserved in a large crystal. Barret also chose not to move on after the death of his wife. For that matter, neither did Dyne, who later died and was reunited with his wife's spirit in the Lifestream. Even Elmyra, Aerith's adoptive mother, did not move on after the death of her husband.

So, why is it a requirement that Cloud should "move on"? Why is it so pertinent that he cease loving Aerith just because she has died? Vincent, Barret, Dyne, and Elmyra all chose to remain alone, preferring to live with the memory of their loved ones close to their hearts. At least in Cloud's case, he can be with Aerith. She is still with him, even after her death, due to her Cetra heritage. The others I have listed didn't have that luxury... yet they chose to carry on loving their significant others even after they were gone. I think this says a lot for Cloud and Aerith and why they shouldn't be dismissed completely just because one of them has departed the physical plane.

In FFVIII, you see another great example of love beyond death- Laguna and Raine. At the end of the game, the player is shown Laguna standing at Raine's grave, still wearing his wedding ring. He has chosen to continue loving Raine. He has chosen to not move on from her memory.

In FFX-2, Shuyin and Lenne's love endured through 1,000 years of separation. And some people say they find it hard to believe that Cloud can still be in love with Aerith after 2 or 3 years? I believe I have provided more than enough proof that S-E does not consider death to be the "end" of love. Nor do they consider time an obstacle. If Shuyin and Lenne can continue loving one another after 1,000 years, then Cloud continuing to love Aerith for the remainder of his life should not even be questioned. Why? Because S-E says so.

And, finally, in FFXII, Princess Ashe is shown grieving for her lost love, Rasler. Throughout the game, she is shown remembering him many times. Most importantly, though, is the fact that Ashe chooses not to move on. In the end, she remains alone, the memory of Rasler still close to her heart.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I know you have to stick to your pre-arranged talking points and all instead of actual conversation, Blanky, but you could at least switch out the record once in a while.

 

[Wolfmania]

So although Cloud is now free to live his life on Earth with no more guilt or remorse, he will one day reunite with Aerith and Zack in the lifestream.

Fix'd that for you. It seems you'd forgotten someone important or something.

 

[BlankBeat]

I know you have to stick to your pre-arranged talking points and all instead of actual conversation, Blanky, but you could at least switch out the record once in a while.

lol I thought you were gonna recite your, "you seem to be able to open the door but not walk through it" thing again. I like the record analogy, though. I wonder what you'll think of next!

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Fix'd that for you. It seems you'd forgotten someone important or something.

Yes, Cloud will reunite with everyone that is in the lifestream. What's your point?

My point is that Cloud will one day reunite with Aerith in the lifestream (ie: someone he has romantic feelings for and was distraught over when they passed away)

Are you suggesting that Cloud and Zack will continue a romantic relationship in the lifestream?

PS: I really liked this point. "If Shuyin and Lenne can continue loving one another after 1,000 years, then Cloud continuing to love Aerith for the remainder of his life should not even be questioned."

 

[Wolfmania]

Oh, it's nothing, I just laugh at how people seem to forget Zack exists during some parts of ACC, when he's actually just as important as Aerith when it comes to Cloud's guilt. As if ACC even had romantic sub-themes or something -- it was just about Cloud's family crisis and guilt for letting some of his BFF's die.

A symbolic jab of sorts towards you, true. Maybe it was in bad taste, considering you seem so serious, but it's my fault since I never inteded to argue with you. I guess I'll be leaving this thread before I get banned or something, though I wouldn't consider that a bad thing

 

[BlankBeat]

I guess I'll be leaving this thread before I get banned or something, though I wouldn't consider that a bad thing

Get banned for making fun of/mocking a Clerith?

 

[Roger]

I just love how not getting remarried within three year equals not moving on. And that moving on with life equals not loving those that have passed away anymore. Also that Lucretia is in that line-up, even though, far from being dead is actually the one person in this world Vincent isn't gonna outlive.