The Love Triangle Debate thread of KNEEL BEFORE ZOD OR SUFFER HIS WRATH (ignore the opening posts at your peril) (Round 6)

[Danseru-kun]

Okay I'm just going to cp what I wrote about KH in tumblr because I'm lazy, feel free to use the quotes here:

Spoiler

How does KH contribute to FFVII’s characters?

“What was the thought behind bringing back Aerith?”
Nomura: Yes, she died in Final Fantasy VII, but there’s no real relation to where she was at or what role she played in FFVII. There’s no relationship from FFVII to the Kingdom Hearts stories. I consider them separate stories. But if you play Kingdom Hearts, toward the end, some of the questions about the relationship between Cloud and Aeris in FFVII might be answered. It’s sort of like a side story, and this was an extra bonus that I wanted to give to players.
​

However in this write-up I will not be talking in depth about the relationship between Cloud and Aerith and I will be focusing on Cloud, and Tifa, by extension, Sephiroth. First is that because I don’t think Aerith’s significance can affect anything regarding Cloud and Tifa and second because it has been already tackled in Squall of Seed’s LTD article, the main reference of this post and a recommended read.
Let us begin at the first Kingdom Hearts where Tifa was not included due to time constraints. In the story, Cloud is searching for someone and even made a deal with Hades for it. The clue we get is the conversation between Sora and Cloud.

Sora: “So why did you go along with him, anyway?”
Cloud: “I’m looking for someone. Hades promised to help. I tried to exploit the power of darkness, but it backfired. I fell into darkness, and couldn’t find the light.”
Sora: “You’ll find it. I’m searching, too.”
Cloud: “For your light? Don’t lose sight of it.”
​

It’s easy to conclude that Cloud was searching for his light based on this, and Cloud meeting Aerith at the ending gives some the impression she is Cloud’s light just like Kairi is to Sora. Furthermore, an interview encourages players to interpret things.

(Translation by Thorfinn Tait)
-“Okay then, so the person who Cloud is searching for is Aeris, right?”
Nomura: “Well, what do you think? If indeed it was Aeris, then the bit in the ending was the answer. You might say it was made so that you can take it that way. Cloud is a popular character, and I don’t really want to decide myself, yes he is like this. Because players make strong conclusions by themselves, I want to leave room for everyone’s line of thought.”
​

However, KH Final Mix tells things differently. We then learn that Cloud is actually chasing Sephiroth, a darkness that he must confront. Aerith herself confirms Cloud was chasing Sephy.

Aerith: “…I wonder if he’s still searching for him…”
​

When Cloud finally battles Sephiroth in what is called the Showdown of Fate, we get this dialogue.

Cloud: “So we meet at last.”
Sephiroth: “I was searching for you too.”
Cloud: “As long as you exist, I can’t wake from this nightmare.”
Cloud: “You are my darkness.”
Sephiroth: “If that’s so, I shall draw you into the darkness.Into the nightmare that forever deprives you of light, from which you can never awaken.”
​

Cloud wants to fight Sephiroth, his inner darkness. Because Cloud was wearing a KH costume and it’s a side-story, there is a lot of room to relate this with Cloud’s struggles in FFVII. We can say Sephiroth’s control of Cloud is the one being alluded here.

He searches for Sephiroth, hoping to settle things once and for all with his inner darkness. - Cloud’s description
“I’ll get him. This time we settle it. Me, and the one who embodies all the darkness in me.”
— upon meeting him in Hollow Bastion.
“Yeah. Once I get rid of you, the darkness will go away.”
— talking to Sephiroth during the Battle of 1000 Heartless.
​

There are arguments saying Cloud is searching both for Aerith in Sephiroth as Sora is searching for Kairi and Riku but then Kingdom Hearts II comes along. Here we have Tifa searching for Cloud and things turn out to be different.

“He’ll be fine. I’m sure there’s some light in him somewhere.”- Sora to Aerith
​

A remark from Sora to Aerith says that Cloud has yet to find his inner light and this is directly similar to the fact that Sephiroth is Cloud’s inner darkness.
When Tifa finally meets Cloud he was battling with Sephiroth. Sephiroth taunts that Cloud cannot let go of the darkness (in the KH everyone except the Princesses have darkness in them anyway) but Tifa retorts that Cloud just needs someone to surround him with light. Watch the whole scene here.

Now this is the moment when Sephiroth pointed his sword to Tifa and said.

“Let’s see what this light of yours can do.”
​

Cloud cried “No!” but Tifa’s light is blinding him when Sephiroth and Tifa fight each other. Some people say that this is because Tifa’s light is unsuitable for Cloud, but looking at the greater context there is a deeper cause for this. Like what Sephiroth had said and himself said, Cloud had been in the darkness for so long. This is the case in reality where light is blinding if one had been deprived from light. (Seriously just imagine the scene when you’re sleeping then someone turns on the light. )
Remember what Sephiroth said to Cloud:

That darkness comes from your own dark memories. … Face it — you turn your back on the present and live in the past. Because the light of the present is too much.”
​

Then Tifa says “You can have my light.” Cloud was unsure but he gets bluish light at first but when he protected Tifa he gets a golden aura for the first time and glows. Some say this is Cloud finding his inner light rather than using Tifa’s light. But note that Cloud only finds light when he protected her. Nomura himself presented Tifa as as an antithesis to Sephiroth, as the “light,” however we are left to wonder if she’s really human or an embodiment of Cloud’s light. Knowing Sephiroth is in fact Cloud’s inner darkness, it’s safe to assume Tifa is Cloud’s inner light.

-”Speaking of Tifa, there’s an event where she talked to Cloud after beating Sephiroth.”
Nomura: “In Nojima-san’s scenario, it explained Cloud and Tifa’s connection more in-depth but I deleted it away. I thought it would be more interesting to let the gamers think about it. For example, ‘If Cloud’s darkness is Sephiroth, then Tifa is light’; in that sense you can take it that Tifa isn’t really human. The reason Tifa doesn’t talk to anyone else besides Sora and co. may be because she doesn’t exist as a human. Of course, I also presented her in a way that she could also be a resident of Hollow Bastion, so I think you can freely think for yourself about her.”
​

So why is Tifa chasing Cloud then? Why is he chasing Sephiroth and leaving her alone like that? Again, the context points out to Advent Children as confirmed by Nojima. KHII was released just 2 years after Advent Children.

“…So Cloud’s really running from something but goes around pretending, saying that he’s chasing Sephiroth. Then we decided to make it him running from the “something warm” like what Tifa was after in AC.” — Nojima
​

In Advent Children, Cloud runs away from his family due to his feelings of powerlessness, anxiety over the future and fear of losing them. This is Cloud’s darkness, and his failures in the past (Zack and Aerith’s deaths) can be what Sephiroth was describing as “dark memories.”

AC Prologue: “Nojima: Cloud never had a candid personality to begin with, and although he started living with Tifa and even started working, he obtained a peaceful living he’s never experienced before, and this conversely made him anxious. And in the midst of this he contracts Geostigma himself, and rather than being able to protect the people dear to him, he instead was forced to face his own death, and so ran away.”
​

Cloud: Tifa … I’m not fit to help anyone — not my family, not my friends. Nobody.- AC

​

Cloud was running away from what Tifa was offering, and in AC this is the warmth of a family. KH serves as a bonus to illustrate this. At AC Cloud was able to forgive himself after facing his enemies and in KHII Cloud only found light when he stopped running from Tifa and when he protected her. The only difference is that KH doesn’t seem to have a conclusion yet and Cloud is still fighting Sephiroth.
Tifa doesn’t seem to get depressed by Cloud leaving again this and will continue to follow Cloud. She tells Sora that he doesn’t need to worry because “light is easy to find.”
Now even if they come from different contexts, Cloud’s relationship with Tifa in KH is similar to their relationship in Dissidia Duodecim. In Dissidia’s story, Cloud had always been a warrior of darkness and when Tifa comes along as his enemy, he forfeited the fight and died trying to save her. Because of his sacrifice, Cosmos revived him as a Warrior of Light and in the next cycle he was victorious. Tragically, Tifa also died trying to save Cloud. Note that Dissidia is canon to the FF story and really did happen.
And does this look familiar?

Cloud also had protected Tifa from Sephiroth in an almost exact same way as the Kingdom Hearts scene. Another thing noteworthy is that Cloud lost his memories when he got revived at Dissidia’s 13th cycle, meaning that he forgot Tifa.

Revived as a warrior of Cosmos, he searches for a meaning to fight out of the sense that he has lost something dear within his memories.
Cloud’s character museum Dissidia
​

This is strikingly similar in KH Chain of Memories where Cloud also lost memories. We cannot conclude that the following quote is referring to Tifa since Duodecim and KHCM are years apart and contexts differ, Zack and Aerith may even qualify as the dear person (and in FFVII Zack is the only one Cloud forgot.) Nonetheless the similarity is difficult to ignore.

A swordsman hired by Hades to take out Hercules. Cloud seeks the true memories he has lost.

Were they memories of someone dear to him, or memories of his hazy past?- Cloud’s description
​

In Kingdom Hearts Coded (Japanese only, I think the western release Re:Coded changed some stuff but I’m not quote sure I checked both scripts) there are also hints pointing out to Cloud’s relationship with Tifa. It is revealed that he made a deal with Hades so he could get stronger to protect someone and some of his quotes echo his feelings of powerlessness in FFVII and wanting to protect Tifa.

Cloud: No matter what I do, I’m letting somebody down.
“…Sorry. I need to fight to you. There is someone I have to protect… so let me test that power.”
— before Sora fights him.
​

In FFVII, Cloud wanted to get stronger so Tifa would notice him, and of course because of failing to save her when she fell from the cliff. He also promised her that he would be there for her and save her when she is in a pinch. Here are what Cloud says in FFVII:

“I thought if I got stronger I could get someone to notice………”
“If I could just get stronger…… Then even Tifa would have to notice me……”
If only I could’ve saved her…I was so angry… Angry at myself for my weakness. Ever since then, I felt Tifa blamed me…I got out of control… I’d get into fights not even caring who it was. That was the first time I heard about Sephiroth. If I got strong like Sephiroth, then everyone might…”
​

Then interestingly, Sora and Hercules would lecture Cloud about finding his true strength rather relying on his deal with Hades. This is exactly the situation in FFVII where Cloud wanted to join Soldier which cause him to experience terrible things yet he was able to find his true strength when he faced Sephiroth at the burning of Nibelheim.

Lastly, by context Tifa’s role in KHII refers to her role in Advent Children but this is not the first time she was searching for Cloud.

A young woman in search of a certain someone.
Unflinching, unrelenting, Tifa has looked far and wide.
Her journey won’t be over until she finds the person she seeks.
-Tifa’s description in KHII
​

In FFVII, when Cloud was missing when the Northern Crater exploded this is exactly what Tifa has done, believing that she can see him again.

“……I’ll be able to see him someday.” - Tifa in FFVII
​

And… she did.
To sum it up

• Sephiroth is Cloud’s darkness and Tifa is his light but we are left to wonder if Tifa’s human or not. Cloud’s battle with his own darkness involves himself, Sephiroth and Tifa.
• Cloud only found light when he stopped running away from Tifa and protected her
• Cloud running away from Tifa is an illustration on Cloud’s fear and weakness in AC where he ran away due to his feelings of powerlessness
• Not only in KHII, but KH Coded also points out Cloud wanting to get stronger for Tifa’ sake.

 

[BlankBeat]

Link in Pajamas,

I do not think you are understanding Nomura's quote.

Nomura specifically points out that FFVII and KH are separate worlds. But he goes on to say that although they are separate worlds, KH can provide commentary on Cloud and Aerith's relationship in FFVII. How do you not understand that...? Are you being purposely dishonest?

------------

Kingdom Hearts:
Sora: “So why did you go along with him, anyway?”
Cloud: “I’m looking for someone. Hades promised to help. I tried to exploit the power of darkness, but it backfired. I fell into darkness, and couldn’t find the light.”
Sora: “You’ll find it. I’m searching, too.”
Cloud: “For your light? Don’t lose sight of it.”

Both Sora and Cloud are looking for their light in Kingdom Hearts, and then Cloud finds Aerith at the end of the game.

In fact, Nomura was asked directly about this:
Question: “Okay then, so the person who Cloud is searching for is Aeris, right?”
Nomura: “Well, what do you think? If indeed it was Aeris, then the bit in the ending was the answer. You might say it was made so that you can take it that way. Cloud is a popular character, and I don’t really want to decide myself, yes he is like this. Because players make strong conclusions by themselves, I want to leave room for everyone’s line of thought.

Although Nomura says he wants to leave room for everyone's line of thought, he specially says that, "You might say it was made so that you can take it that way".

It is blatantly clear what Nomura's opinion is when you take into consideration all of his statements.

Aladdin is shown being reunited with his light, Jasmine.
Cloud is shown being reunited with his light, Aerith. And Kairi is Sora's light.

Kingdom Hearts II:
Throughout KHII, the characters are not searching for someone who is their light, but they are trying to find their *INNER* light. Therefore, in Kingdom Hearts II, the theme of "light" changes. Instead of Cloud searching for someone that is his light [Aerith], Cloud is now searching for his inner light.

This is specifically stated in this conversation:
Aerith: Is something wrong?
Sora: Uhh...
Cloud: It's nothing. I don't want you involved.
Aerith: You mean you don't want me there when you go away again?
Cloud: I just--- Listen, even if I go far away, I'll come back.
Aerith: Do you mean it?
Cloud: Yeah.
Aerith: See? You don't look so sure. Well, okay, I understand. Go---get things
settled.
Cloud: Huh?
Aerith: No matter how far away you are...once you find your light...I'm sure it will lead you back here again. Right?
Cloud: I suppose.
Aerith: So I'll stay here---and I'll cheer for you--- Okay, Cloud?
Cloud: Okay. *walks away*
Aerith: Wonder if he'll be okay.
Sora: He'll be fine. I'm sure there's some light in him somewhere.
Aerith: You're right.
~Kingdom Hearts II

Sora says, "I'm sure there's some light in him somewhere".

The reason Cloud has to find his inner light is so he can defeat his inner darkness:
Cloud: I'll get him. This time we settle it. Me, and the one who embodies all the darkness in me.
Donald: I thought you looked kinda different, Cloud.
Cloud: If I do, it's his fault.
Sora: Whose?
Cloud: Sephiroth. Tell me if you see him.
Sora: Okay. What's he look like?
Cloud: Silver hair. Carries a long sword.
Sora: Sure. Well, be seeing you, Cloud.
Cloud: Be careful. He messes with your head, makes you think darkness is the only way.
~Kingdom Hearts II

Then, when Cloud finally faces Sephiroth (his inner darkness), his inner light starts to shine through. It is necessary for Cloud to find his *INNER* light so he can defeat his *INNER* darkness.

Some argue that Tifa is Cloud's light. But there are a few reasons why this can't be true:

1. Cloud was *SEARCHING* for his light in Kingdom Hearts. So how can Tifa be Cloud's light in Kingdom Hearts II if he was *never* searching for her in Kingdom Hearts? That doesn't make any sense from a narrative standpoint.

In fact, Nomura's quotes make it clear that Cloud's light in Kingdom Hearts was Aerith. Since Tifa was never in Kingdom Hearts, it is impossible for Tifa to be Cloud's light.

2. When Tifa's inner light begins to shine, Cloud shields his eyes and is blinded by it:

To me, Cloud's reaction to Tifa's light was clear confirmation that the *ONLY* way for Cloud to defeat Sephiroth (his inner darkness) is not through someone else's light, but through his inner light:

3. Cloud seems reluctant to take Tifa's light and Sephiroth says her light does not suit Cloud:
Tifa: Cloud, you can have my light.
Sephiroth: The light doesn't suit you.
Cloud: I just...don't know.

There is no confirmation that Cloud takes Tifa's light. In fact, I would say given what both Sephiroth and Cloud say, it is clear that Cloud does not take her light.

You could possibly make the argument that Tifa's light helps Cloud find his light, but that doesn't mean Tifa is Cloud's light. It simply means that Tifa helps facilitate Cloud finding his own light.

4. Goofy: Where’d they go? Do ya think they made it back to their own world?
Sora: They went somewhere else.
Tifa: Cloud went to fight a great battle to defeat the darkness inside him.

Cloud leaves Tifa and the others to fight Sephiroth on his own. Tifa even says that Cloud left them to defeat the, "darkness inside himself."

Fighting his inner darkness is something that Cloud must do on his own, through his inner light, and without Tifa.

5. Aerith says that once Cloud finds his light, it will lead him back to her:
Aerith: No matter how far away you are...once you find your light...I'm sure it will lead you back here again. Right?
Cloud: I suppose.
Aerith: So I'll stay here---and I'll cheer for you--- Okay, Cloud?

If Tifa was Cloud's light, why would that bring him back to Aerith?

6. Given the theme of Cloud's inner darkness, it is clear that Kingdom Hearts II is also about Cloud's inner light.

 

[Geostigma]

Link in Pajamas,

I do not think you are understanding Nomura's quote.

Nomura specifically points out that FFVII and KH are separate worlds. But he goes on to say that although they are separate worlds, KH can provide commentary on Cloud and Aerith's relationship in FFVII. How do you not understand that...? Are you being purposely dishonest?

I think its quite clear that you're the one who does not understand the quote now lol.
Its also extremely clear you either

a) didnt play kingdomhearts, and are copy and pasting stuff from clerith blogs, much like your other posts.
or
b) didnt understand the plot of kingdom hearts at all.

 

[BlankBeat]

I think its quite clear that you're the one who does not understand the quote now lol.
Its also extremely clear you either

a) didnt play kingdomhearts, and are copy and pasting stuff from clerith blogs, much like your other posts.
or
b) didnt understand the plot of kingdom hearts at all.

lol K

 

[Geostigma]

Most of the other stuff was already made extremely clear by the awesome Sprites but.

Although Nomura says he wants to leave room for everyone's line of thought, he specially says that, "You might say it was made so that you can take it that way".

It is blatantly clear what Nomura's opinion is when you take into consideration all of his statements.

He's being blatantly ambigous so both fandoms can consider them selves righted. This indicated by him adding this as a suffix to the quote "Cloud is a popular character, and I don’t really want to decide myself."

He's not intending for fants to take it as a definitive answer. Its funny how when nomura talks about clerith, to you its a definitive answer. When he talks cloti its ambigous and not a true answer. As if cloti "proof" has to jump through more hoops for certification for some reason

3. Cloud seems reluctant to take Tifa's light and Sephiroth says her light does not suit Cloud:
Tifa: Cloud, you can have my light.
Sephiroth: The light doesn't suit you.
Cloud: I just...don't know.

There is no confirmation that Cloud takes Tifa's light. In fact, I would say given what both Sephiroth and Cloud say, it is clear that Cloud does not take her light.

No. Just no.

Your allowing your blind shipping tendencies to cloud(pun not intended) obvious narrative points.

Sephiroth is not saying Tifas light isnt suited for cloud.
Sephiroth is saying the Light in GENERAL is not suited for cloud, hes trying to get in clouds head and pull him further into darkness, just like how cloud warned sora

Cloud: Be careful. He messes with your head, makes you think darkness is the only way.

5. Aerith says that once Cloud finds his light, it will lead him back to her:
Aerith: No matter how far away you are...once you find your light...I'm sure it will lead you back here again. Right?
Cloud: I suppose.
Aerith: So I'll stay here---and I'll cheer for you--- Okay, Cloud?

If Tifa was Cloud's light, why would that bring him back to Aerith?

lol. no.

Once again your blind fandom is blinding you from even more obvious points.

He's not returning to Aerith. Hes returning to that location.
Cloud said hell go back to that spot, and aerith says shes decided to wait there for him. Cloud was going to go back there regardless if Aerith invited herself or not.

Its like a obsessed person with a crush waiting for you outside of your apartment. Just because you go home after work and she happens to be waiting there for you, does not mean your coming home to her, your just going home.

Again I'd take the time point out more inaccuracies in your diatribe that has little to do with realities in KH. But it just so happens that Sprites already did that at the top of the page which sure enough its clear you ignored it. Just like its clear you didnt play KH.

 

[BlankBeat]

He's being blatantly ambigous so both fandoms can consider them selves righted. This indicated by him adding this as a suffix to the quote "Cloud is a popular character, and I don’t really want to decide myself."

He's not intending for fants to take it as a definitive answer. Its funny how when nomura talks about clerith, to you its a definitive answer. When he talks cloti its ambigous and not a true answer. As if cloti "proof" has to jump through more hoops for certification for some reason

All of this is exactly why when I hear people say that Cloti is canon I laugh.

Everything else you said is nothing more than a difference of interpretation/opinion. I'm never going to convince you to see my perspective, and since neither of us work for SE, I guess we'll never know who is right.

--------------------

All of the heroes have to fight a darkness/boss before being reunited with their light in KH1. So why wouldn't the same be true for Cloud?

Nomura plainly said that the ending of KH1 (where Cloud gets reunited with Aerith) might answer questions about their relationship in FFVII. If the ending of KH1 can answer questions about Cloud's relationship with Aerith in FFVII, and if Cloud is "finding his light" when he finds Aerith like Aladdin finds Jasmine, Beast finds Beauty, etc., then it says to me that Aerith is Cloud's love interest in Final Fantasy VII.

Nomura has made vague statements about both KH1 and KH2 that suggest Aerith is Cloud's light in KH1 and Tifa is Cloud's light in KH2. Maybe SE decided to have KH1 show a connection between CxA and have KH2 show a connection between CxT? Remember, Cloud *WAVERS* between two heroines.

However, Nomura only says that KH1 may provide some commentary on FFVII. Therefore, I'm unsure if KH2 provides any commentary on FFVII.

 

[BlankBeat]

PS: There is a big difference between your own inner light and finding that "someone" who is your light. For example, Kairi is Sora's light, Aerith is Cloud's light. Aerith is his "light", "the light of the heart" in which Cloud was searching for. I think that was obvious when they were reunited at the end along with Beast and his light, Belle, *AND* Aladdin and his light, Jasmine.

What Cloud is searching for in KH2 is his own inner light, something he seemed to be able to find only by
1. being reunited with the light of his heart
2. seeking out his "darkness" to destroy him (Sephiroth).

Not really sure what role Tifa played in all this, but it is possible that she is a physical representation of light, a friend who appeared to help Cloud find his own light.

 

[Dashell]

Not really sure what role Tifa played in all this, but it is possible that she is a physical representation of light, a friend who appeared to help Cloud find his own light.

This is what several of us have been saying for a while. Tifa is Cloud's light manifested... she's not human, much like Sephiroth is his darkness manifested.

 

[BlankBeat]

This is what several of us have been saying for a while. Tifa is Cloud's light manifested... she's not human, much like Sephiroth is his darkness manifested.

So Tifa is Cloud's light manifested in KHII and Aerith is the light Cloud was searching for in KH?

 

[Dashell]

So Tifa is Cloud's light manifested in KHII and Aerith is the light Cloud was searching for in KH?

... idk... sure?


IMO light doesn't always mean romance... I mean... I think he WAS searching for Sephiroth in KH, but it's because he wanted to extinguish his darkness which would... in turn lead him to the light so in a way he IS searching for light, he's just going about it all wrong. At first he was refusing to accept light (which is why Tifa blinds him in KH2) but then... he accepted it and became strong.

I think he'll come back home to Aerith when he's done working out his problems though

EDIT
so I guess in a way, if Aerith is his light, he IS searching for her, but he doesn't know it.

EDIT II
Figures he'd leave after I give him his response the next time someone says "But he was searching for Sephiroth!"

 

[Ryushikaze]

PS: There is a big difference between your own inner light and finding that "someone" who is your light. For example, Kairi is Sora's light, Aerith is Cloud's light. Aerith is his "light", "the light of the heart" in which Cloud was searching for. I think that was obvious when they were reunited at the end along with Beast and his light, Belle, *AND* Aladdin and his light, Jasmine.

What Cloud is searching for in KH2 is his own inner light, something he seemed to be able to find only by
1. being reunited with the light of his heart
2. seeking out his "darkness" to destroy him (Sephiroth).

Not really sure what role Tifa played in all this, but it is possible that she is a physical representation of light, a friend who appeared to help Cloud find his own light.

Please, do cite your evidence that KH Aerith is the "light of the heart" of KH Cloud.

Because from where I'm sitting, nearly everyone you mentioned as being a light of the heart was also a being of pure light without darkness... just like Tifa.
Unlike Aerith.

Seriously, though, if we're going back to KH means so much let's please focus on the one part that is directly analogous to FF7 and that's the fact that Tifa represents all the warm feelings that Cloud ran from in FF7AC, which Cloud returned to at the end of the movie.

 

[Roger]

"You might say it was made so that you can take it that way".

It is blatantly clear what Nomura's opinion is when you take into consideration all of his statements.

First of all, no. He didn't just proclaim this out of nowhere, an interviewer was asking him this and he didn't want to give him no answer, nor shoot down people with different theories.

And anyway as Nomura has said in quotes you have posted, he wants you to make up your own mind, not base your opinions on what you guess his opinion probably is.

 

[Dashell]

And anyway as Nomura has said in quotes you have posted, he wants you to make up his own mind, not base your opinions on what you guess his opinion probably is.

Did you mean "your" own mind?

ALso "Light of the heart" sounds familiar... is it said in one of the games?

 

[Ryushikaze]

Not in the first one, as far as I can tell from a search of the script, so, citation needed on THAT even being a thing, too.

 

[Kermitu Kleric Katie]

Goddammit BlankBeat, why'd you have to bring KH into this? Anyway, in KH, no FF chatacter is in a romantic relatiomship at all, really. The closest we get is Zack asking Aqua on a date in BbS. And honestly, if I were Nomura, I'd make Cloud hook up with Yuffie or something, just to troll and so Tifa and Aerith could end up with each other. That, or make all three of 'em end up with eachother, since who says you can't have both? And maybe get Zack in on it, too.

And given what Cloud says and does during his confrontation with Sephiroth in KHII, he runs from Tifa because he's going after Sephiroth and he doesn't want Tifa to get involved because he's afraid she'll get hurt. And Tifa seems to have been chasing after Cloud because he's been mired in darkness for so long thatnhe needs her light in order to defeat Sephiroth, or something like that. One thing I've always wondered though is why Cloud's light and darkness have physically manifested and if anyone else in the KH universe has physical embodiments of their light and darkness as well.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I think that was obvious when they were reunited at the end along with Beast and his light, Belle, *AND* Aladdin and his light, Jasmine.

Still haven't actually watched the ending, I see.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

The wheel turns, and KH rises to the top again. Despite the same thing happening every time it comes up. Someone let me know when the wheel grinds it back into the dirt again

 

[Strangelove]

Cloud says in KH that he was looking for a person, not his light. He only says he lost sight of it, and tells Sora not to do the same. Then Final Mix appears and it's 'yo seph i've been looking for you'. Which is mentioned by Aerith and Cloud.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Aerith must be oblivious to how much Cloud wants her, so she thought he was looking for Seph instead. And Cloud thought he was looking for Seph because Seph is pretty like a girl and Cloud wanted to find the important woman in his life (Aerith).

Clearly, Aerith is not a reliable source of information. Except for that koibito thing.

 

[Kermitu Kleric Katie]

Aerith must be oblivious to how much Cloud wants her, so she thought he was looking for Seph instead. And Cloud thought he was looking for Seph because Seph is pretty like a girl and Cloud wanted to find the important woman in his life (Aerith).

Clearly, Aerith is not a reliable source of information. Except for that koibito thing.

But Tres, koibito isn't a word. It's koi_______bito, which means kind person.

 

[Strangelove]

oh god do not say that, i think i am having a brain aneurism just thinking about it

 

[Dashell]

It always comes back to koibito >_< Fuck I'd rather go back to Cait Sith's predictions than that shit.

In all seriousness I don't see why it matters who Cloud was looking for... is it stated somewhere he's looking for his love interest?


I mean okay, here we go, watch this...

Cloud FINDS Aerith... woo they're together, yay!.... what does he do? He ditches her to run after Sephiroth... he sure must hate her. I bet he ignored her phone calls too!...


see what I did thar?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I literally lol-ed.

 

[Kermitu Kleric Katie]

It's never stated Cloud was looking for his love interest. It's made explicitly clear he's looking for Seph. As far as we know, Cloud doesn't even have a love interest in KH.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I see how one would arrive at this conclusion, sure. If you assume that a person's light is their romantic interest and ignore that Cloud said he lost sight of *the* light while using the power of darkness in his quest to find someone (i.e. he lost sight of the light *after* his search for a person had already begun), then it's a simple A->B jump.

Of course, it's completely riddled with fallacy at every turn, but that's the thought process.