Answering three people regarding the DoC claim:
Strangelove said:
How does looking at DC tell you anything about Cloud and Tifa? Is fighting bad guys together and having no decernable story of theor own in a game about Vincent an indication of a bad relationship?
Strangelove said:
Hawkeye said:
Please explain. Meanwhile, I'll brace myself with a cerebral airbag.
Quexions said:
I won't say anything else until he answers this =X
To Hawk, Strangelove, and Quex:
Some Cloti's justify the lack of romance between Cloud and Tifa in Advent Children by saying Cloud was struggling with his guilt and that him and Tifa were going through a rough patch (like all couples do). But my question is very simple: when will we see unequivocal evidence of a romantic relationship between Cloud and Tifa?
DoC takes place one year after Cloud relives himself of his guilt. So with Cloud's guilt gone, wouldn't this have been the perfect opportunity to show Cloud and Tifa as an established romantic couple? Even if just for a moment or two? Why did SE decide to mention Cid's marriage to Shera in DoC, but nothing about Cloud and Tifa's romantic relationship? This seems awfully odd and strange that SE would mention Cid's romantic with Shera, but nothing about Cloud and Tifa's romance.
Furthermore, the description of Tifa in the DoC game manual describes Tifa as Cloud's, "childhood friend". Nothing more, nothing less. Since DoC takes place 1 year after AC, wouldn't it make sense that the description should reflect Cloud and Tifa's current relationship? Not only does DoC take place 1 year after AC (so the descriptions should reflect that) but Aerith's description reflects Cloud's current relationship/status with Aerith: she is someone who he will never forget. They don't list Aerith as someone Cloud agreed to protect, or an ally. They list Cloud's current relationship/feelings towards Aerith. Therefore, it only makes sense that Cloud and Tifa are, during the time period of DoC, nothing more than "childhood friends" according to the game manual.
PS: Barret appears in all the scenes with Cloud and Tifa. Cloud and Tifa never appear without Barret. So does it appear as though Barret returned to the family he helped form and create? I think so! Looks like a family of friends to me.
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When he's equally fucked up while around both of them? Okay, I guess.
How is that an even playing field? He has all the memories he's ever had of Aerith during that period but not all his memories of Tifa. The only even playing field is once he has his memories back.
I'm having a difficult time putting in words what I'm trying to express. So, please bear with me.
Cloud's childhood memories with Tifa gives her an advantage over Aerith. Cloud and Tifa have known each other longer, and most people have a little something special for their first crush. Nostalgia is very powerful. So the point I'm trying to make is this: Cloud not having all of his childhood memories at the beginning of
Final Fantasy VII doesn't put Tifa at a disadvantage, it simply removes her advantage and puts her in the same position as Aerith.
In other words, Tifa's advantage over Aerith is something Aerith can *NEVER* achieve because Aerith did not grow up with Cloud. So it's not that Tifa is at a disadvantage when Cloud doesn't have all his memories, rather, Tifa's advantage over Aerith is erased and they are both put in the same position. And it becomes clear that when Aerith and Tifa are both on the same level, Cloud prefers Aerith.
Some might consider this a negative for the Clerith ship, but an interesting question to think about is: would Cloud and Aerith have formed such a strong romantic bond if Cloud had his memories associated with Tifa? Would Cloud's memories have prevented him and Aerith from forming a
"special bond"? Maybe Cloud's lack of memories is what allowed him and Aerith to become so close so quickly -- Cloud wasn't held back by his nostalgic feelings of the past.
And although Cloud eventually regains his memories, it's after he had already developed a
"special bond" with Aerith. A bond, that despite Cloud not possessing all of his memories, was real and genuine.
Cloti's argue that if Cloud had all of his memories associated with Tifa, he might not have preferred Aerith during disc 1. Cloti's also argue that once Cloud regained all of his memories, it's clear that Aerith was just a phase during a time Cloud when didn't posses all of his memories of love for Tifa. But the bond between him and Aerith was already created. The deed was done. Him and Aerith formed a romantic bond despite Cloud not having all of his memories, which is why Cloud and Tifa's relationship remains complicated even after Aerith's death and even after he regains all of his memories.
In other words, Cloud not having all of his memories associated with Tifa allowed for him and Aerith to form a romantic bond. And although it's possible that if Cloud had his memories during disc 1, he might not have preferred Aerith; by the time Cloud regained all of his memories, the deed was done. Cloud had formed a special bond with Aerith, which is why despite Cloud regaining all of his memories associated with Tifa, his relationship with Tifa was still complicated by the genuine bond he had built with Aerith.
The bond that Cloud and Aerith built together is why Cloud's attachment to Aerith continues after her death and during
Advent Children. It's why Tifa continues to carry
"complex feelings towards Aerith as a woman" who had built up a
"special bond with Cloud".
What are they told when they get there? "Look, the Don's not into men. So don't let me catch you around here again..."
Aerith then immediately pulls Cloud aside and says she's going to go in. That leads to the rest of their conversation:
Leaving Tifa behind was never a consideration. He never abandons that topic.
If Cloud had been alone and was told Don's not into men, would Cloud have still attempted to rescue Tifa? Maybe. Maybe not.
Let me ask you this: if Cloud was always planning on rescuing Tifa despite being told Don's not into men, why does Cloud say,
"But, I just can't let you go in alone... Oh, man......"
The phrasing of Cloud's words suggest that if Aerith hadn't decided to go in alone, and that if her safety wasn't at risk, Cloud may have simply walked away. Cloud saying,
"Oh, man......" tells us that he really didn't want to think of a way in, but that because Aerith was going to go alone, he had to figure out a way in so she didn't have to go by herself.
You mean the person trying to get involved at that exact moment? Imagine that!
Because, unlike some people, Cloud is capable of staying focused on the current line of discussion.
Even Aerith thought it was hypocritical that Cloud's first response after hearing Tifa explain her plan and Aerith's desire to join Tifa was to only tell Aerith not to partake in it. Aerith says straight up,
"Oh? So it's all right for Tifa to be in danger?" Cloud then backtracks, but it is clear what just happened (even Aerith notices it): Cloud is showing more protectiveness for Aerith than Tifa.
This scene doesn't say that Cloud doesn't care for Tifa at all, but clearly it was meant to show us that Aerith's safety seemed to be of particular concern to Cloud. Maybe this was a clue that Cloud and Aerith were starting to form a
"special bond," which is also why Tifa becomes instantly jealous when Cloud and Aerith come to rescue her.
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Tifa is a competent fighter compared to Aerith who is physically weak.
Didn't Cloud see Aerith fight the Turks? IMO, it's more unlikely than likely that players will knock down the barrels in the correct order.
Didn't Cloud see Aerith fight here?
Why can you not understand? If this was a military situation, and Cloud and Tifa were GI's, and then Aerith - a non-combatant is there, then she'd have to be protected wouldn't she?
But Cloud wasn't concerned for Aerith's safety from a battle standpoint, he was concerned for her safety from a sexual standpoint.
Furthermore Cloud even says he doesn't want Tifa in danger either, but Aerith and Tifa sort of outnumber him:
Right. Cloud expresses concern for Tifa's safety *AFTER* Aerith points out Cloud's double standard. Cloud backtracks when Aerith points out his obvious double standard, but it's already clear what happened: Cloud expressed more concern for Aerith's safety than Tifa's.
So although Cloud does express concern for both women in this scene, it should be obvious which girl Cloud seems to be favoring at this point.
