The Love Triangle Debate thread of KNEEL BEFORE ZOD OR SUFFER HIS WRATH (ignore the opening posts at your peril) (Round 6)

[BlankBeat]

Not discounting that Cloud loved aerith. No one is, your the only person here who brings that up bub.

When you say no one has discounted that Cloud loved Aerith, well, apparently you haven't read Ryu's posts.

And yes the FF9 cameo is up in the air. Its been proven multiple times in this thread which we all know you saw and ignored.

Huh? I'm pretty sure Hawk agrees that the FFIX cameo is a reference to Cloud and Aerith's romantic relationship.

Not only did you question my integrity with your last post, but you refuse to acknowledge the evidence I provided in support of the FFIX cameo being a reference to Cloud and Aerith's romantic relationship.

If you don't want to debate with me, is your sole purpose simply to insult me?

 

[Dashell]

When you say no one has discounted that Cloud loved Aerith, well, apparently you haven't read Ryu's posts.

Yeah but who cares what that weirdo thinks?

 

[Aerobalance]

Yeah but who cares what that weirdo thinks?

I know, right? Ryu is retard.



Katherine>>>>>>Catherine

 

[Aerobalance]

I know, right? Ryu is retard.



Katherine>Eric>Horse poop>>>>>>>Catherine>>Trisha

Was a shitty attempt at a fix; but I did the inevitable!

 

[Farron]

I'm not convinced that if Cloud had been alone, he would have entered Don's mansion after being told Don wasn't interested in men.

People keep pointing out that Cloud knew Tifa was an awesome fighter who could take care of herself. Cloud had already been on missions with Tifa and they had blown up reactors together. So, yes, Cloud may have very well turned around and said Tifa could take care of herself.

Unlike when Cloud decided to infiltrate the Shinra headquarters, his trip to Don's mansion was unexpected. Cloud simply followed the cart Tifa was on, and eventually discovered she was in Don's mansion. It wasn't as though it was Cloud's intent, from the beginning, to rescue Tifa. Cloud's intent was to simply go back to the Seventh Heaven bar. Given this difference, it makes sense SE wouldn't view Tifa's rescue as comparable to Cloud's desire to rescue Aerith from the Shinra headquarters.

The bottom line is, we will never know if Cloud would have gone in if he had been alone. What we do know is that Aerith's safety and Aerith's creative plan is what led Cloud to entering Don's mansion. To me, this is yet another example of Cloud preferring Aerith and putting her safety above all else.

I can't read this without my eyes twitching. This is so Anti- Tifa and Aerith biased. Don't get me wrong I like Aerith but damn

I feel like if BB wrote and created FF VII Tifa would of died during the second reactor mission or made Cloud leave her forever with the Don and Aerith would of revealed that she's The Emperor of the FF VII universe and also a Goddess and her eyes shoot laser beams with anybody who looks at her odd
and Cloud is her knight and instead of the Black and White Materia thing fuck that, Aerith and Cloud have babies and some hot steamy sex then credits roll

Barret, Red XII, Vincent, Sephiroth, Zack, Yuffie, Cait Sith, Rufus, Reno, Tseng and the rest ? Screw them. Cloud doesn't like them or what anything to do with them. he only likes AERITH and Aerith only.

Did any of you watch the TV show Laguna Beach?
Lauren (Tifa) and Stephen (Cloud) grew up together in Laguna Beach (Nibleheim). They are the same age. They've always had a thing for each other, but nothing serious.

Then, Kristin (Aerith) comes in the picture. Stephen prefers and dates Kristin (Aerith), and Lauren (Tifa) get's jealous/angry about it. But when Kristin (Aerith) breaks up (dies), Stephen goes back to Lauren (Tifa).

It's clear who Stephen (Cloud) preferred, even though Stephen (Cloud) eventually goes back to Lauren (Tifa).

Was Stephen injected with Jenova cells as well ? And put into basically a jar of poisonous and mind-rapy Mako for about five years ??

How about CLOUD grew up with TIFA and wanted to join Solider to impress TIFA and failed, then was imprisoned by Professor HOJO for about five years, watched ZACK die, went crazy, had a fling for AERITH, then AERITH died, and then CLOUD lost his mind and being helped by TIFA he managed to re-connect with his true idenity and CLOUD and TIFA spent time underneath CIDS highwind, Square- Enix hints that they spent some mature nature underneath CIDS Highwind, they defeat SEPHIROTH and then later CLOUD and TIFA live together looking after DENZEL and MARLENE.

Comparing FF VII to a show created for sixteen year old girls a bit insulting

Then, Kristin (Aerith) comes in the picture. Stephen prefers and dates Kristin (Aerith), and Lauren (Tifa) get's jealous/angry about it. But when Kristin (Aerith) breaks up (dies), Stephen goes back to Lauren (Tifa).

It's clear who Stephen (Cloud) preferred, even though Stephen (Cloud) eventually goes back to Lauren (Tifa)

i c what you did there. But no, so much no.

 

[BlankBeat]

Why I'm a Clerith shipper in a nutshell:

Nojima suggests things might have gone better between Cloud and Aerith. Why does he suggest this? Because of how Cloud and Aerith interacted while she was alive. How do we examine how they interacted? By looking at disc 1.

From the moment Cloud met Aerith, he thought she was beautiful. He particularly loved her eyes and smile, and left their initial meeting with a mysterious feeling. Eventually, Cloud meets Aerith again after falling in her Church. Right away, Aerith and Cloud seem very comfortable with each other.

After being told her safety was at risk, Cloud decides to be her bodyguard for the price of a romantic date. Once he saves Aerith from the Turks, they share a moment of laughter, something that is very rare and unusual for Cloud.

As the game progresses, Cloud shows more care and concern for Aerith than any other character. Not only did Cloud protect Aerith from the Turks, but he worried about her safety first and foremost when entering Corneo's mansion. Cloud also rescued Aerith from Shinra's headquarters.

We know Cloud isn't doing all of this just because he has feelings of friendship for her; he's doing it because he also has romantic feelings for her. Cloud tells Marlene that he hopes Aerith likes him -- therefore signaling that he would like for there to be a mutual romantic relationship between him and Aerith.

After leaving Midgar, Cloud and Aerith's relationship begins to deepen. Cloud confesses that he will always be there for Aerith in Cosmo Canyon, and they share a promised date that SE includes on their "For the One I Love" page.

Sadly, the only times Cloud prefers Tifa are during his childhood (when Aerith was not present) and after Aerith's death. To me, it is clear that Cloud preferred Aerith when both Aerith and Tifa were present in his life. And although Cloud eventually confesses his mutual feelings to Tifa, what makes Aerith's death that much more heartbreaking, is that they were never able to express their mutual feelings.

Sometimes I feel as though people want Cloud to be with Tifa because they, personally, prefer Tifa to Aerith. In-fact, I think more times than not, if you prefer Tifa, you are a Cloti, and if you prefer Aerith, you are a Clerith. Obviously there are exceptions to the rule, but I'd say that's generally how it goes. So my point is -- this isn't about who WE like as a character, this is about who CLOUD likes. And Cloud shows, time and time again, that his preference is Aerith.

Tifa witnesses Cloud's preference for Aerith during disc 1, which is what leads to her jealously towards Cloud and Aerith's "special bond". In-fact, according to Tifa, Cloud and Aerith's "special bond" continues to complicate her relationship with Cloud in Advent Children.

In a way, I feel sorry for Tifa. She's a great character who has many great qualities, which is why I think so many ship Cloti -- they, personally, love Tifa. And although Cloud loves Tifa as well, he prefers Aerith. So as someone who loves Aerith's character, this makes it very easy for me to ship Clerith. However, if I didn't like Aerith's character and I liked Tifa better, it would be very hard for me to accept and understand why Cloud prefers Aerith over Tifa. But he does. And that's why I'm a Clerith shipper -- not only do I love Aerith as a character, but I see from a time where Cloud is able to show preference for either Aerith or Tifa, that he shows preference for Aerith.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Although Cid plays a larger role than Cloud and Tifa, it would have taken minimal effort on SE's part to show Cloud and Tifa romantically in DoC. If SE was able to include Cid's romance in DoC, there is no reason SE couldn't have highlighted Cloud and Tifa's romance, too -- even if it was as simple as a minor embrace, kiss, etc.

"Cid's romance" is stretching it a bit, don't you think? The only reason we know Cid and Shera got married is because -- in an optional line of dialogue that's more about the airship than Cid or Shera -- an engineer says:

----
"While this airship is named after Cid's wife, construction of the vessel wasn't performed by the captain at all.

Our team of loyal scientists here at the World Regenesis Organization or those criminals at Shinra weren't involved, either.

To tell you the truth, the ship is not even from this era. It is a relic from a lost civilization.

Most of the machinery in the engine room is boxed up in black casing, so we don't even know what half of it does.

There's no need to worry. Even though we cannot reproduce the technology, we can still put it to good use.

I can almost guarantee there will be no problems.

Almost..."
----

It's not mentioned anywhere else and isn't romantic at all. Cid isn't even present for the exchange, and Shera herself isn't even in the game.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that after the HAHW scene, SE has only portrayed Cloud and Tifa platonically. Although there is circumstantial evidence that may lead some to believe they are in a relationship, SE has decided, INTENTIONALLY, not to portray them as explicitly romantic in either AC or DoC. That is extremely weird and strange, especially for a company that makes romantic references all over the place -- even in games that are un-realted to each other.

If you're going to be fair, you can't call the scene in FFIX a romantic reference to Cloud and Aerith but then challenge whether Cloud blushing around Tifa and saying stuff like "I know my life will succeed this time because I have you" is romantic in a title that actually focuses on them. Particularly for characterization from the notoriously more subdued Japanese culture, that's romantic.

Anyway, wouldn't it be kind of harsh to Aerith fans to have overtly physical scenes of romance presented between Cloud and Tifa? Something like the higher affection Highwind scene is as far as I would expect it to go.

And, honestly, it would just be weird. Cloud and Tifa are both awkward turtles. Their relationship and their personalities are largely defined by hesitation and this weird space they put between themselves and others. I don't really know if I would want to see them getting frisky.

The pattern I'm trying to point out is that Tifa is never stated to be anything more than Cloud's "childhood friend."

An official quote from an Ultimania calls her someone he has loved for many years. I don't know what more you need than that. It's the same word (好意; koui) used to describe Cecil & Rosa's feelings for each other, Celes & Locke's, and Squall & Rinoa's. I mean, really, what more can you ask for?

Shit, Celes and Locke never hug, kiss or say "I love you" -- the most we see from them is grabbing one another's hands in life-and-death situations, which is the most we see from Cloud and Tifa. What does that say about them? And that was another love triangle where the guy loved two women. He doesn't have to stop loving Rachel to love Celes.

The situation with Cloud, Aerith and Tifa isn't any more complicated than that. The fact that it's a love triangle doesn't paint "koui" in any different a light than it does with any of those other couples. Love is not a zero sum game. In order for "koui" to apply from Cloud to Tifa it isn't necessary that he not love Aerith at all -- it's only necessary that he loves Tifa.

Although not every *main* FF couple is *always* listed romantically, I can't help but assume there is at least one or two direct references to them being a romantic couple. It's very curious that the same can't be said for Cloud and Tifa.

It's more curious that you don't acknowledge the same descriptions being used for them that are used for other couples ("koui" and the "communicate their feelings for each other" quotes).

The reason I focus on how Cloud acted while both Aerith and Tifa were alive is because that is the only time we can compare how Cloud acts when he has the choice between the two.

I get that, but my problem with you doing it is that this accounts for most of the data you use.

During Cloud's childhood, obviously Cloud showed romantic interest in Tifa. And after Aerith died, obviously Cloud showed romantic interest in Tifa.

I am surprised to see you admit this so openly, but cool.

But this begs a few questions: 1. If both Aerith and Tifa were present during Cloud's childhood, would Cloud have fancied Tifa? Isn't it possible Cloud would have fancied Aerith, instead? 2. If Aerith had lived, would Cloud have expressed mutual feelings to Tifa? Isn't it possible Cloud would have expressed his mutual feelings to Aerith, instead?

Why does it beg those questions? Why does that matter? Again, love is not a zero sum game.

Like I said in my last post, it's just as possible that Cloud would have decided he couldn't be without either woman and they would have ended up sharing him.

Why can it not be as simple as what I said before?:

"Tifa loved Aerith. In The Kids Are Alright, she says that Aerith was more than a friend, she was family. Aerith loved Tifa. She entrusted her feelings for Cloud to Tifa, asked her to take care of him and wanted them to be together. And Cloud loved both of them.

Why does it have to be more complicated than that?"

This right here makes for a satisfying story with quotes that mean exactly what they say and gives equal respect and dignity to all involved: "Cloud has chosen to spend his life with Tifa and will also cherish Aerith -- another woman he loved -- for the rest of his life."

That makes for a nice story. On the other hand, a story where Cloud ignores a woman's feelings for him and mooches off her in every way (food, a place to live, volunteering her to do favors for other people so he can get stuff, etc.) after expressing mutual romantic feelings -- while she goes along with all of it without questioning -- is a grotesque, abusive thing.

Again, I don't understand how you can prefer to see Cloud, Aerith or Tifa in that light. You have to distort these characters to the degree HarryxHermione fans have to distort people from that franchise. It ruins them and turns them into -- well, what I said before. Cloud becomes a manipulative douchebag instead of an awkward, sincere softy; Aerith becomes a selfish bitch instead of a noble, loving friend; and Tifa becomes a pathetic, clingy doormat instead of a strong, self-respecting partner.

When Aerith and Tifa are both on equal footing, it is undeniable that Cloud preferred Aerith. One has to look no further than their chemistry, Tifa's jealously, and Cloud's consistent concern for Aerith's safety. This is part of the reason I'm a Clerith shipper -- I think Cloud and Aerith are more compatible, something Nojima hints at. For lack of a better word, the only time Tifa "beats" Aerith is either when Aerith is dead, or during Cloud's childhood, a time Aerith wasn't present for. This suggest to me that if Aerith was present during Cloud's childhood, Cloud would have fancied Aerith instead of Tifa. This also suggests that if Aerith had lived, Cloud would have expressed mutual feelings to Aerith instead of Tifa.

Or maybe he would have expressed those feelings to both. From where do you get this idea that you can't love two people?

Part of the reason I don't think Cloud and Tifa's mutual feelings led to a relationship is because Cloud continues to love Aerith after she dies ...

That's ... insulting. Very insulting. One of my best friends is a widow. She's with someone else now and loves him, but still loves her husband.

I hate to say this about someone just from discussing fictional characters' love lives, but you have a twisted view of love, friend. Love does not mean you diminish others' value. You don't have a finite amount of love to share. You have as much as you're willing (and allowed) to share.

It is clear part of Cloud dragging around the past isn't just about letting two people he cared for die, but that one of the people he let die was Aerith in particular. Tifa senses this: "The thing which she is unable to hide in her irritation towards Cloud is the fact that he isn’t merely dragging the past around, but because that reason might perhaps be related to Aerith." Then, when Tifa see's Cloud visiting Aerith's Church, her expression becomes, "complex". It isn't hard to read between the lines. Cloud is feeling guilty that he let Aerith die, but because it's Aerith in particular, a woman he loved romantically, it adds another dimension to the situation from Tifa's perspective.

Exactly. It's from Tifa's perspective. This is telling you something about Tifa, not Cloud. She might worry that it means he doesn't love her as much as he loved Aerith. She might worry that it means he believes he would have been happier with Aerith. She might worry that she can't give him what Aerith could.

Her worrying about those things does not mean it's true.

My wife has worried before that I may not love her as much as I love my girlfriend because my GF can give me babies while my wife cannot. Having children is an enormously big deal for me. However, I don't love my wife any less than my GF. My girlfriend is the one who can give me children, but my wife is agreeing to allow that to happen, which she didn't have to do.

I'm not convinced that if Cloud had been alone, he would have entered Don's mansion after being told Don wasn't interested in men.

Then you aren't telling the truth when you say you know Cloud cared about Tifa.

People keep pointing out that Cloud knew Tifa was an awesome fighter who could take care of herself. Cloud had already been on missions with Tifa and they had blown up reactors together. So, yes, Cloud may have very well turned around and said Tifa could take care of herself.

So, he's going to go all the way there to find out what kind of situation she's gotten herself into, discover that it may be dangerous, and then not so much as wait around to see if she comes out safely?

Yeah, you don't think he gave a shit about her.

Why are your posts riddled with contradictions? It's baffling how much you have to twist the story and the characters -- and how inconsistent all of it becomes in the meantime -- to arrive at the conclusions you do.

The bottom line is, we will never know if Cloud would have gone in if he had been alone.

So we can stop talking about it now?

This is simply another example that suggests if Aerith had been present during Cloud's childhood, or if Aerith had not died, Clould would have fancied Aerith during his childhood and expressed mutual feelings to Aerith, instead of Tifa.

You do realize you're basing this conclusion on a version of Cloud that included Zack's personality traits, literally copied from his mind and deposited into Cloud's, yes? As well as Cloud's own skewed perception of what a tough, badass SOLDIER would be like.

The real Cloud's personality is but one of several personalities and influences at work. Composite Cloud and the real Cloud are very different people. Their personalities are extremely different. They talk differently, act differently, think differently -- and may even like different kinds of women.

Tifa only "wins" when Aerith is out of the picture, which is why I think disc 1 is essential to building up the argument for the Clerith ship.

Well, as long as we're bastardizing Cloud and belittling Tifa --

Aerith only "wins" when Cloud's mind has been put in a blender and he can't even remember that he loves Tifa, which is why I think Disc 2, Disc 3, Before Crisis, Crisis Core, On the Way to a Smile and Advent Children are essential to acknowledging the full picture.

Now, does that sound insulting to you? Belittling? Mocking? Demeaning? If so, think about the wacky shit you're saying.

Did any of you watch the TV show Laguna Beach? Although it's not a perfect comparison, I think it's interesting to compare the two because Laguna Beach had a love triangle -- which is what led to part of its success.

Lauren (Tifa) and Stephen (Cloud) grew up together in Laguna Beach (Nibleheim). They are the same age. They've always had a thing for each other, but nothing serious.

Then, Kristin (Aerith) comes in the picture. Stephen prefers and dates Kristin (Aerith), and Lauren (Tifa) get's jealous/angry about it. But when Kristin (Aerith) breaks up (dies), Stephen goes back to Lauren (Tifa).

It's clear who Stephen (Cloud) preferred, even though Stephen (Cloud) eventually goes back to Lauren (Tifa).

I haven't seen the show, but from what you said, I have to ask: Why does any of this matter? It's not a valid comparison. I doubt Stephen lost his memories of Lauren while he was dating Kristin, and Cloud and Aerith didn't actually establish a phase that could be called dating.

Hell, even if they had, she would have been dating a guy with amnesia, schizophrenia and alien-induced multiple personality disorder!

If the question is "Who does Cloud love?" (which you and I both say it is, even if others disagree) rather than "Who do you prefer Cloud with?" what difference does any of this make? Is that the question or not?

 

[Lex]

Why I'm a Clerith shipper in a nutshell: I like the pairing more than I like Cloti

This is something you just have to be honest about, and it'll save you and a lot of people here a lot of time. You just conveniently overlook too much and downlplay Could/Tifa moments to make your pairing canon. Just be honest and concise.

 

[Farron]

Sometimes I feel as though people want Cloud to be with Tifa because they, personally, prefer Tifa to Aerith.

This is flipping pancake tossing hilarious !!!!!!! Because you have shown nothing but anti- Tifa and hugely biased Aerith nature all-through this debate with you.

In-fact, I think more times than not, if you prefer Tifa, you are a Cloti, and if you prefer Aerith, you are a Clerith.

Not all the time you can't really say that for everybody. Most people ship Cloti because they've been actually been paying attention to what information Square- Enix has been bringing out.

And not secretly wishing that Kefka would appear and do his Saturday Cartoony laugh and murder Tifa like he did with Leo and watch Cloud and Aerith sing A Whole New World while dancing over Tifa's gravestone and spitting on it because Tifa suxs rigggghht BB ?

i would of said sephiroth but kefka is better

if BB can be biased here so can i

this isn't about who WE like as a character.

You should listen to your own advice sir

In a way, I feel sorry for Tifa. She's a great character who has many great qualities, which is why I think so many ship Cloti -- they, personally, love Tifa.

Don't try and twist what you've being doing wrong to the Cloti shippers here BB

And although Cloud loves Tifa as well, he prefers Aerith. So as someone who loves Aerith's character, this makes it very easy for me to ship Clerith. However, if I didn't like Aerith's character and I liked Tifa better, it would be very hard for me to accept and understand why Cloud prefers Aerith over Tifa. But he does. And that's why I'm a Clerith shipper -- not only do I love Aerith as a character, but I see from a time where Cloud is able to show preference for either Aerith or Tifa, that he shows preference for Aerith.

So basically you're saying what we already know you ship Clerith because you like Aerith and you want Cloud to show preference for Aerith

instead of that selfish Tifa whore that should of been left at Don's HQ

 

[Akai Hana]

Nojima suggests things might have gone better between Cloud and Aerith. Why does he suggest this? Because of how Cloud and Aerith interacted while she was alive. How do we examine how they interacted? By looking at disc 1.

He said perhaps things might go well with Aerith but there is also a burden from Aerith. The way Nojima said even if C/A is happening, they will also face problems like other couples.

And btw, Nojima statement is not based on OG, he commenting about Cloud and Tifa relationship in ACC. You're lying here, BB. Don't just choose part of the statement that might be the evidence towards Clerith.

First off, there's the premise that things won't go well between Tifa and Cloud, and that even without Geostigma or Sephiroth this might be the same. I don't mean to get into my views on romantic love, marriage and family (laughs). After ACC, maybe Denzel and Marlene can get them to work it out, I think. Perhaps things would have gone well with Aerith but Aerith responsibilities is big. I remember I wanted to write Cloud as a person seen through Tifa's eyes but he isn't the type to open up (laughs) ~ Nojima, OTWTAS Interview.

 

[BlankBeat]

Before I get to Hawk's post...

He said perhaps things might go well with Aerith but there is also a burden from Aerith. The way Nojima said even if C/A is happening, they will also face problems like other couples.

Yes. Cloud and Aerith would face their own problems. But Nojima specifically says that things might have gone well with Aerith after saying things didn't go well with Tifa.

How is that not saying things might have gone better with Aerith?

And btw, Nojima statement is not based on OG, he commenting about Cloud and Tifa relationship in ACC. You're lying here, BB. Don't just choose part of the statement that might be the evidence towards Clerith.

The only way for Nojima to think things might have gone well with Cloud and Aerith in ACC is to look at how they interacted during disc 1. Duhhh.



This is why I don't even bother responding to most of your posts. Maybe I should just lump you in with Dagger?

 

[Akai Hana]

This is why I don't even bother responding to most of your posts. Maybe I should just lump you in with Dagger?

Why? Because we slapped evidence right into your face? I might not be the best debater here, I admit that. Just because my counterargument sound stupid, you want to ignore me?

Ignore me all you want, BB. I don't care. And Dagger is my friend, for eff sake.

 

[Geostigma]

Before I get to Hawk's post...


Yes. Cloud and Aerith would face their own problems. But Nojima specifically says that things might have gone well with Aerith after saying things didn't go well with Tifa.

How is that not saying things might have gone better with Aerith?


The only way for Nojima to think things might have gone well with Cloud and Aerith in ACC is to look at how they interacted during disc 1. Duhhh.



This is why I don't even bother responding to most of your posts. Maybe I should just lump you in with Dagger?

 

[Akai Hana]

BB,



lol

 

[BlankBeat]

Why? Because we slapped evidence right into your face? I might not be the best debater here, I admit that. Just because my counterargument sound stupid, you want to ignore me?

No, when you accuse me of lying that's when I get touchy. As for Dagger, well, her posts have degraded into petty attempts to smear me through character assassination, attempted mockery, and attempted sarcasm. But I do give her an A for effort. Funny how her posts get so many "thanks" from the very people that should be warning her and telling her to stop. But then again, of course she won't be told to stop, just like all the other posters that have attacked me personally (Hawk, Ryu, Link in Pajamas, Prince Lex, etc.) It's awfully hard to report bad behavior when those in charge condone and partake in such behavior.

But to be honest, I'm used to it by now. It goes with the territory of this site. So I will continue to debate the issues and although I might snap occasionally, I'll try to let everything else roll off like water off a duck's back.

 

[I Am Not Me]

The only way for Nojima to think things might have gone well with Cloud and Aerith in ACC is to look at how they interacted during disc 1. Duhhh.

Look at the quote again.

First off, there's the premise that things won't go well between Tifa and Cloud, and that even without Geostigma or Sephiroth this might be the same. I don't mean to get into my views on romantic love, marriage and family (laughs). After ACC, maybe Denzel and Marlene can get them to work it out, I think. Perhaps things would have gone well with Aerith but Aerith responsibilities is big. I remember I wanted to write Cloud as a person seen through Tifa's eyes but he isn't the type to open up (laughs) ~ Nojima, OTWTAS Interview.

He's not just talking about Aerith disc 1, but Aerith as a whole. Meaning, as her whole ROLE in the FFVII universe. He's basing this on Cloud's interaction in Disc 1 and her whole role in FFVII. Leave it to you to diminish even Aerith's character itself to make it only about shipping. Please don't give that kind of attitude to other people if you, yourself, can't even understand and deconstruct the meaning of a simple sentence.

This is why I don't even bother responding to most of your posts. Maybe I should just lump you in with Dagger?

How tasteless. And we're the rude ones.

It takes two to tango.

 

[BlankBeat]

He's not just talking about Aerith disc 1, but Aerith as a whole. Meaning, as her whole ROLE in the FFVII universe. He's basing this on Cloud's interaction in Disc 1 and her whole role in FFVII. Leave it to you to diminish even Aerith's character itself to make it only about shipping. Please don't give that kind of attitude to other people if you, yourself, can't even understand and deconstruct the meaning of a simple sentence

I know he's talking about her whole role in FFVII.

What I'm saying is that one of the ways to determine if things would have gone well with Aerith is to see how Cloud and Aerith interacted during disc 1. In fact, that is the primary place to look.

 

[Lex]

I've done nothing but point out logical fallacies in your arguments/ questioned your motives in posts. You lack integrity BlankBeat. That's not a personal attack, that's a truthful observation about the dishonest way you've been debating - swaying between opinions that suit you and cherry picking quotes.

No one is trying to discredit your arguments, the double standards everywhere in your arguments speak for themselves, people just point that out. I've never personally attacked any member of this board, and I never will. I certainly question your motives for being here and will continue to do so on a regular basis. I'm just honest about how I feel.

I should probably be pretty angry, but that fact that you're going as far as to say we're all personally attacking you is just somewhere beyond the realm of emotion. My reaction is kind of like that diagonal head movement dogs do when they're a bit dumbfounded by something.

this is the proverbial cloti basket of dogs encompassing the members of The Lifestream and how they feel about this entire argument

(and yes, that pretty one right at the front is me)

 

[BlankBeat]

I've done nothing but point out logical fallacies in your arguments/ questioned your motives in posts. You lack integrity BlankBeat. That's not a personal attack, that's a truthful observation about the dishonest way you've been debating - swaying between opinions that suit you and cherry picking quotes.

No one is trying to discredit your arguments, the double standards everywhere in your arguments speak for themselves, people just point that out. I've never personally attacked any member of this board, and I never will. I certainly question your motives for being here and will continue to do so on a regular basis. I'm just honest about how I feel.

I should probably be pretty angry, but that fact that you're going as far as to say we're all personally attacking you is just somewhere beyond the realm of emotion. My reaction is kind of like that diagonal head movement dogs do when they're a bit dumbfounded by something.

this is the proverbial cloti basket of dogs encompassing the members of The Lifestream and how they feel about this entire argument

(and yes, that pretty one right at the front is me)

As usual, you pop your head in to contribute nothing to the discussion or topic at hand. Here's a thought: if you don't want to debate with me because you think I'm a dishonest debater, don't.

One of the reasons I rarely even go down this road is because when I decide to defend myself against personal attacks and accusations, it only fuels the fire, lowers me to your level, and distracts from the topic at hand. I don't really care what you think about me nor do I agree with anything you say about me.

Pretty much everyone here has let their opinion of me be known. So, instead of continuing to beat a dead horse, either decide to debate with me or not. But if you decide to debate with me, I'd ask that the personal attacks stop.

Oh, and saying I lack integrity *IS* a personal attack, BTW. So when you say you've never personally attacked someone, well, that's a lie. Call it a "truthful observation" all you want, but it is also an attack on my character.

I thoroughly expect to receive many more pages of disrespectful posts that have nothing to do with the LTD. Like I said, the moment I defend myself, it only fuels the fire. Interesting, though, that so many people have the same impression of this place.

Anyway -- I will be getting to Hawk's response soon and other responses I've been procrastinating on.

 

[Dashell]

I know he's talking about her whole role in FFVII.

What I'm saying is that one of the ways to determine if things would have gone well with Aerith is to see how Cloud and Aerith interacted during disc 1. In fact, that is the primary place to look.

Wait... how did what you said here get turned into some kind of argument? Calm down people, he has a point

I thoroughly expect to receive many more pages of disrespectful posts that have nothing to do with the LTD.

ur a boogerface!

 

[Lex]

But it has everything to do with the LTD, because your posts cannot be trusted. They lack integrity. If you want people to stop saying that your posts lack integrity, make posts that don't lack it. Any debate with you has been a wasted effort because you just disappear for a month or so or ignore the main points of any rebuttal made and we all think it's over until you return with the same quotes and the same arguments you had before. This makes no sense. It is nonsensical.

As usual, you pop your head in to contribute nothing to the discussion or topic at hand.

 

[Dashell]

OH wow that's my video from my Shishikabob account XD

I must have posted that before, is that how you found it?

 

[Geostigma]

I've done nothing but point out logical fallacies in your arguments/ questioned your motives in posts. You lack integrity BlankBeat. That's not a personal attack, that's a truthful observation about the dishonest way you've been debating - swaying between opinions that suit you and cherry picking quotes.

No one is trying to discredit your arguments, the double standards everywhere in your arguments speak for themselves, people just point that out. I've never personally attacked any member of this board, and I never will. I certainly question your motives for being here and will continue to do so on a regular basis. I'm just honest about how I feel.

I should probably be pretty angry, but that fact that you're going as far as to say we're all personally attacking you is just somewhere beyond the realm of emotion. My reaction is kind of like that diagonal head movement dogs do when they're a bit dumbfounded by something.

this is the proverbial cloti basket of dogs encompassing the members of The Lifestream and how they feel about this entire argument

(and yes, that pretty one right at the front is me)

Lex for the prettiest puppy 2013 TLS award? Yes yes?

 

[BlankBeat]

Wait... how did what you said here get turned into some kind of argument? Calm down people, he has a point


ur a boogerface!

I can't say anything without people jumping all over it.

Link in Pajamas decided to waste everyone's time by attempting to say that the FFIX cameo is not a romantic homage to Cloud and Aerith. Did we REALLY need to debate something that is so obvious? Again -- I can't say anything without people jumping all over it and getting personal.

But thanks for agreeing that I have a point about Nojima's quote.

--------------------

But it has everything to do with the LTD, because your posts cannot be trusted. They lack integrity.

Then don't debate with me.

If you want people to stop saying that your posts lack integrity, make posts that don't lack it.

You've already stated, over and over again, that you think my posts lack integrity. WE GET IT. Why do you insist on beating a dead horse?

Any debate with you has been a wasted effort because you just disappear for a month or so or ignore the main points of any rebuttal made and we all think it's over until you return with the same quotes and the same arguments you had before.

Actually, what we've been discussing is very different than past discussions I've had in this thread. But I wouldn't expect you to know because you don't post in this thread because you care about the LTD, you post in this thread to personally attack me. Maybe that says something about *YOUR* integrity.

This makes no sense. It is nonsensical.

K

 

[Lex]

OH wow that's my video from my Shishikabob account XD

I must have posted that before, is that how you found it?

It's from a post you made in this very thread actually. I find the video both mesmerising and hilarious. I know Shii Ann was on survivor but I never watched it. Her facial expressions in that video just make me laugh.