Quexinos
What does it matter? Even if you can prove that one optional scene has a canonical version, it doesn't mean that all optional scene have a canonical version. That's like saying that if one scene has Vincent in it, that all scenes have Vincent in it.
You're trying to argue against this scene having a canon outcome not by arguing against the evidence, but by arguing that it might not have a canon outcome. Consider that for a moment.
Well, true... he did say MIGHT be true even without Geostigma and Sephiroth. However, he said the whole premise of the story is that things won't go well between Cloud and Tifa, which means that's the basis of the story.
Yes. The premise of this story is that Cloud and Tifa are having some issues. That's because the story needs to lead into Advent Children where those issues are made manifest and solved.
And no, Nojima said nothing about the problems between Cloud and Tifa being in the context of love, marriage, and family. What he actually said was, "I don't really intend to go on about my views on love or marriage or family". By that, he only means that he doesn't want to discuss his views on those matters - he isn't talking about how that pertains to Cloud and Tifa.
So, Nojima has a case of ADD.
Also, the problems Cloud and Tifa have have nothing to do with love, marriage, or family, then.
That's an excellent sign for their continued romantic relationship, then.[/snark]
And where did I say it did happen? Whether or not it did happen has no relevance to the fact that Nojima thought that things may have gone better between Cloud and Aerith than between Cloud and Tifa.
He did not say such a thing, even in hypothetical. He said 'with Aerith, things might have gone well, but she has her own burdens'
Or it could mean that Cloud would end up with Aerith instead of Tifa, since Nojima says with Aerith, not with Tifa.
But I thought being 'with' someone meant nothing? It certainly seems to regarding Cloud of Tifa any of the numerous times it's been pointed out that the two of them are with each other. Even when Nojima said Cloud would be Together
with Tifa..
I didn't say they had separate bedrooms for sure. If anything, it seems to me that the Cloti's here have been saying that they definitely did NOT have separate bedrooms, which is not proven either.
Anastar, you've been arguing that Cloud's office is his bedroom. You've used 'Cloud and Tifa sleep in separate rooms' as key points in your arguments. You have been arguing that they do not share a bedroom.
If anything, however, it seems to me that the evidence lies in favor of Cloud's office also being his bedroom. Think about it - there's no reason for SE to put a single bed in Cloud's office unless they wanted to insinuate that he sleeps there while at the Seventh Heaven.
Then they should have put a single bed with an actual mattress in the room instead of a cot with a mattress no thicker than my arm.
If SE wanted to make it clear that Cloud sleeps with Tifa, they wouldn't go out of their way to show a place where Cloud could sleep on his own.
If they wanted to make it Clear he slept there, they wouldn't have gone out of their way to call the room his office and give us a scene where Tifa watches Cloud sleep.
How come there's no bathroom?
How come he has no bed AND no dresser AND no nightstand AND no lamp in Aerith's church while he's sleeping there? Why does he even need a dresser when he wears the same pair of clothing each day?
You actually went there. You think Cloud only owns a SINGLE set of clothing that he wears eternally. And why does Cloud not have a bed, dresser, lamp, or other amenities in a place he's gone seeking penance and also in avoidance of that which brings him comfort... Hmm.
Oh, because it would be defeating the point of leaving comfort behind.
You know damned well what my name is. And I already mentioned in an earlier reply that yes, there is a door there and I was wrong about that.
No, you just said 'Actually, there is a door there' I did not see you say 'I was wrong' or even 'my bad' in any response prior to this one.
Yes, that was so nice of you to say.
That's all I've been saying all along.
No, Anastar, it's not. You've been saying that Cloud and Tifa sleep in different rooms as part of your arguments. We are not fools in a vacuum who cannot read your responses to other people.
And you obviously don't get what I'm trying to say.
I'm saying that whether or not FFX-2 has a canon ending is totally irrelevant because it doesn't matter if FFX-2 has a canon ending. Even if FFX-2 does have a canon ending, it doesn't mean that the HA HW scene is canon.
Okay, so now you DO admit that LISTED DEVIATIONS CAN HAVE CANON OUTCOMES.
Glad we agree on that.
Your ENTIRE ARGUMENT against the HAHW scene being canon was that there was a listed deviation for it.
You have just agreed to the exact opposite of your own argument.
I think a QED is in order.
I'm also saying that Yuna and Tidus's love was established on a non-optional basis in FFX. So what the hell does the ending of FFX-2 have to do with whether or not Cloti is canon? News: it has absolutely nothing to do with it.
But you see, that's where you're wrong. Because while the EXAMPLES are distinct, the LOGIC is identical. Tidus and Yuna's romance is, in point of fact, entirely beside the point of 10-2's ending having a canon ending. You keep shoehorning it in and no one but you knows why.
Okay.
Does it matter? We know that Cloud hates Sephiroth - is there any question that he does? Do you know for sure that it's NOT talking about who Cloud loves and who Cloud hates?
How are you so sure it is?
And if it IS about Cloud's hate and love, then congrats, you've once again proven the commercial untrustworthy. That hate was not always in existence.
Well, if this commercial is inaccurate, we have to question everything that SE says or produces. Maybe that means the FTOIL page is inaccurate, too, as well as the 10th AU, the 20th AU, and the FFVII UO. Why trust anything from SE?
See, now you're being silly.
Firstly, this is a commercial.
Secondly, it wasn't even made by Square, certainly not Square Japan, whose commercial had jack shit to do with this nonsense.
Thirdly, again, it's a commercial. Yes, that's two of my points, but the very fact that you trust advertising is actually an alarming thought entirely beside the point of the LTD.
Then once again - why trust anything from SE? You've said that Nomura lies, and now you're saying that the commercials are inaccurate. So I don't know why you pay attention to anything from SE.
We've said Nomura plays coy with regards to unreleased and newly released games. Kojima of MGS does the same thing since he hates spoiling his games through promotion and so DELIBERATELY releases misleading trailers for his own games.
And have there been any inaccuracies found in the Ultimanias? Or are those all perfect?
You may think you're onto a glorious new argument here, but you're not. Mostly because you rely on Ultimanias and other sourcebooks just as much- you just have to twist them through the wringer first.
Now, let me see - I've only seen the FTOIL page in Japanese. I assume that means the 20th AU was only published in Japanese. At lease, I've only see translations from it available on TLS.
So, if SE said that Cloti is canon on the FTOIL page, why would they only announce it to a JP audience?
Because SE is a Japanese company that cares primarily about the audience that speaks their language, and because it's largely not profitable to translate sourcebooks for overseas markets when they've absolutely never done that before.
But good show on exposing that ethnocentricism, thar.
So are you saying that nothing is ever accurate in SE commercials?
What we are saying, Anastar, is that a commercial can NEVER BE TRUSTED ON ITS OWN MERITS.
A commercial may, in point of fact, be giving you accurate information. Most times, it's not. As the TV tropes page says, never trust a trailer. Commercials exist to sell you a line.
I went and found all the English AND Japanese FF commercials I could some time ago. Nearly all of them were full of nonsense, false information, or had JACKALL to do with the game. Commercials exist to get you interested, NOT to inform you.
A commercial MAY give you accurate information. You can never trust that the commercial IS giving you accurate information without the ability to confirm it from another source.
That's not just FF commercials. That's ALL commercials ever.
You keep returning to the commercial. It's a foundation of your argument. This is one of the biggest reasons why your arguments fail and will continue to fail. You have made your foundations on the swampland of advertising. There's no solid ground to be had there. Trying to use a commercial as EVIDENCE of a narrative is a downright laughable move, much less as a foundation.
So no. We're not saying nothing is ever accurate in a commercial about an SE product.
We're saying the accuracy of the information in ANY commercial is incidental, and that commercials are not trustworthy sources as a rule extending far beyond the bounds of this simple debate.
And we've been over this.
Multiple times.
And you refuse to admit it.
Quex, PM this AND my SW advertising post to her, if you would. Anastar NEEDS to see both of those just so she can realize how silly she is being.
Jenova confusion not necessary; the girl is still hot even as a ghost thingie from the lifestream. 
Perhaps you're too young to realize this, but sometimes there's more involved in relationships than just sexual interest.
