And we know Harry/Ginny is canon because they married. Not sure if they told each other they loved each other but probably they did that too.
And this doesn't stop H/H shippers. There's something of a moral in all this.
Yes, that's what I believe - they don't have to be a couple to raise kids.
It is, however, the narrative presumption that two people raising kids together will be a couple, especially a grown man and woman. It adds expectations in the audience that SE does nothing to dispel and many things to enhance.
It seems like it would be relevant, if it's on the page. The whole page is about love developing between protagonists, and Cloud is shown with both girls. It wasn't there for no reason at all.
You're right. It's not. It's there because Aerith, Tifa, Yuffie, and in a different sense Barret all confess, make a display towards Cloud.
The whole page is actually about CONFESSIONS to, by, and between protaganists.
This is why couples like Yang and his Wife, Cid and Sierra, Laguna and Raine, Cid and Edea, Irvine and Selphie, Zell and Library Girl, Amarant and Lani, Freya and Fratley, and Wakka and Lulu are not on the page. They lack big confession moments.
But Steiner and Beatrix, for example, ARE on the page. They do have a big damn confession moment.
Hell, Cecil and Rosa are on the page, and they were already an item by the time the game started- we just got a big damn display between them in the tower of Zot.
So it literally had to be directly in the description that it's optional? Having a page number isn't enough?
Yes, because it's explained on page 232.
Page 232.
P232 lists a deviation and tells us what actually happened in the narrative, and that 'what happened' matches what is on the FTOIL page. That's not saying it is optional. That's saying there are other pathways apart from the 'correct' one, just as- to return to SW- the Holocron entry for KOTOR mentioning what happens if you go dark side while telling us that you go lightside doesn't make the lightside ending optional.
Yeah, I tend to say what I don't really mean.
I didn't mean it like that. I was talking about what I heard on a different thread here that you guys were trying to get us mad - and yes, I already know it isn't true now, that you guys are serious, but I didn't then.
As a rule, we will be more trustworthy sources of information about ourselves than people who are angry at us for some reason.
Where did it end? I don't remember Cloud and Tifa getting together.
From a purely narrative sense, it ended on disc 1. You do not forcibly remove a component of a love triangle with death if you want it to continue. Hell, one corner of a triangle dying or killing themselves was a staple of solving love triangles in Japanese literature for quite some time.
But the page is about mutual development. I take it to mean he can develop feelings with either, or both.
But he can't mutually develop with someone he's not aware has feelings for him. And if the page means he can develop feelings for who goes on the date with him, then we must include Yuffie and Barret as well.
They too are part of the dating sequence and AV game.
erm, yes, my jokes are bad. Was trying to be friends..
Never mind then, I can see that SHIP has sailed.......
Now that's just an out and out case of assault and battery on the funny bone.
It can. He basically says the same thing that he's thinking in Dismantled after the LA version - he isn't alone, Tifa is at his side. He ends up living with her and raising two kids that they love after it. Sounds fitting, unless you see Cloud and Tifa in a "romantic" light - then of course the HAHWS would fit better for you.
The problem is that the LA scene is apathetic and short. Learning anything from that scene doesn't fit.
Thank you! Not everybody sees that.
No, we all understand Aerith is more than just guilt to Cloud, but what we are saying is that the guilt IS overriding all other aspects until it is lifted.
Because there is no concrete "Cloud and Tifa are together/Cloud and Tifa have romantic feelings like this" in the story. I think its hinted at, clearly. The subtlety exists for both sides.
But we look out of story, just as you look out of story to confirm Revan and the Exile's genders for the official narrative of Kotor and 2.
And yes, I will argue until SE says Cloud and Tifa are definitely together (no hinting, beating around the bush, blah blah) because of what Nomura said. When he was talking directly about the romantic relationships in FFVII, he started talking about fans imagining as they like. Really... He didn't flat out say "The LT is player interpreted" but he seemed to have.
Are we discussing the 'As for the two year gap' quote or the 'We have our own answers, come up with your own' quote?
The thing is, the young Cloud that was there didn't even seem aware of his present feelings. If I remember right, he said something like he'll probably be so happy to hear that Tifa cares. But personally, I don't think it really signifies that Cloud is presently feeling those exact feelings because it's coming from a younger Cloud who did.
That wasn't a snapshot of Cloud in the past. It was Cloud's subconscious in the form of young Cloud, but one who knew about things from when he was older than the age he appeared to be.
In any case, the Japanese line uses a specific word which means 'with near perfect certainty', which is encompassed by our more general word 'probably' (And even with just that word, you've got a 51%-100% chance. Better than even odds)
It's specified once that, in one version, there are feelings of desire. In everything else, it just says feelings. So I'm taking that to meaning they do so in both.
You're looking at it from the wrong angle.
The quotes say Feelings are shared. That's what happened.
One quote says that the low highwind is apathetic and short- it lacks feelings, it lacks interest. Nothing is shared.
The other version, in which things are shared, must be the one that occurs.
Anyways, ON P232, we are again told the confirmation happens. Yes, on the page with the deviation.
We know the outcome. We don't need to concern ourselves with the other possibilities.
I agree so much.
That's why I don't think either date or Highwind scene is canon. The story just leaves them behind for imagination, technically.
Except we are shown a particular version of the highwind scene in a story summary, and as one of the most impressive scenes in the game.
I've made of the other proof something different than you have. We've just come to different conclusions of what their relationship is. It's never been definitely said what their relationship is outside of friends/comrades.
They've said quite a lot, actually. Cloud sees Tifa as mother of the family she and Cloud were forming in Edge. She sees him as the father. The kid they adopted sees them as his parents.
But he has a love for her, same as them. I'm saying it could be romantic. The possibility is there.
But the love and the undying feelings are distinct from each other. Everyone else has love and feelings. Cloud also has his own feelings.
And possibility is not the same as probability.
Darth Vader would be proud.
Join the dark side, we have cookies and an excellent medical plan.
I guess. What emotion did you have in mind? I really don't see it right now.
Envy, Lust, Not getting a high score on Pac Man...
I meant its picture in the summary, like the Aerith date.
Again, since when does a mere placeholder get selected as one of the most memorable scenes. And the text coupling its use in the story summary fits- without mentioning version or 'if' what the text says about the photo. Aerith's date is a placeholder because the text just says 'One of four people join Cloud on a date'
Heck, Tifa's date in Cloud's profile is probably similar, since it's talking about Cloud's cluelessness towards both women on their dates.
Technically speaking, they had a future that would now be considered the past. Didn't mean this as like a shipping thing.
They've never been SAID to have a future together like C/T have. A future that extends past AC
Well, it seems like people here are quite serious and I'm not so it's my fault.
Are you familiar with the phrase 'Poe's law?'
You need to be more overt with indications of humor otherwise you will be mistaken for being genuine as the most ludicrous things have been claimed in all seriousness before.
That's true. But at a time when he was referring to the relationships, he said fans should imagine and enjoy talking about it.
Which is a bit different from there not being an answer. Hell, he did the same in KH2. There's a concrete explanation of Tifa, her past, what she is, etc, that didn't get into the game because Nomura wanted you to think about it.
And they don't have to be in a relationship to take care of these kids and live together
It helps, and it's the common sense interpretation.
Who is not, never has been, and never intended to be part of their family or household. He helped Cloud and Tifa make THEIR home and left Marlene in the care of the two of them.
It couldn't have been too important if it was never mentioned again.
It's been mentioned again at least once, oftentimes multiple times in each subsequent sourcebook, including the PREQUEL sourcebook, and as the most impressive scene in the game. Shit's been mentioned A LOT. Shit's important.
Hell, Cloud's fight with Sephiroth in AC wasn't mentioned in DoC. Guess that wasn't important.
Is it candid now or...?
And anyway, Cloud still says they are no longer alone in the end of both versions, so maybe "apathetic" is not their best description - or maybe it meant that it's just more apathetic than the other version? That kind of made more sense.
The conversation is itself apathetic. Confirmation of feelings, any feelings, would not be apathy. That's the problem with ascribing anything to the low version. We've been told no feelings are contained within its conversation.
Nomura: *drawing in a corner at his desk* "Lulu... FFX... boots... gunswords... zipperbelts..."
Nojima: "Wtf are you doing?"
Close enough. I swear, Lulu is like the Culmination of all his fetishes. Long, dark hair, large brests, and more belts and zippers than a pants factory.
I changed my stance years ago, when I realized it was never said that Cloud loved Aerith in that way and the whole interpretation thing.
That's good, at least.
As for everybody else, I'm not sure, but I gave this more thought and I think it's that C/A people believe it's canon but hasn't been outright confirmed. Like, they/we saw it as "obvious" that Cloud loved her the way we think it did (similar to how you guys think it's obvious he loved Tifa) and doesn't really need to be proven, but as far as the LT stands officially, we believe it's about interpretation. Sorry if I'm not making any sense.
The thing is, we think it's obvious because we can point to actions and quotations taken by Cloud, said by Cloud, and said by the creators that repeatedly and inexorably link Cloud and Tifa, time and time again. From the very first thoughts of Advent Children which were Tifa using children to send Cloud a message right up to the short description of the Turks novella where C/T are again included together, SE's been giving us loads and loads of 'they're together, they're family, they have a future together, Cloud belongs there, he's happy there.'
I didn't know you wrote it.
My name was on the Article.
It links pretty well with what he says after both scenes, though, and the line that says he and Tifa become aware of their feelings by the end of the story.
Which doesn't say when Cloud LEARNS it. Cloud can learn it prior to and affirm it after the LA scene
Woah, look at those caps.
Like GLD said, they are justified, in that people are than me are being referenced to try and talk for me instead of my own words.
Can I ask why you glossed over the
He treats her better than most other people, and even in his addled state, singles her out as the only person whose opinion matters.
First off, the quote says Held. Not withheld. Secondly, for something to be withheld, it must still be present. Either way, this argument winds up with those feelings being present and active in the present.
and
They come to realize the feelings regardless. The expression is what can be different in different playthroughs. All the evidence points to one version of the scene being the one that happened in the narrative.
bits?
I read it somewhere in an Ultimania or Dismantled, not sure. I only remember Aerith coming with me at that part when her affection was higher so it seemed right?
If you did, then it is wrong. It's entirely player choice. You can also bring Red 13 along with you.
Unless you mean if you ignore the choice, then yes, the highest AV person (Or Red, if Barret's highest) is foisted on you.
It has to happen if she's female - there's no other option.
Does his joining you actively affect the story conclusion? Because I'm still not seeing why the gender choices in KOTOR count for extranarrative confirmation but the narratives in FF games do not.
Do you have anything more to add here? Can I just move on knowing you accept Tifa is his light and were just laughing at the 'yes, virginia?'
So you would know that your interpretation isn't the only one that can be right.
But mine is still by far the one with the greatest chance of being right, because it is molded around supporting evidence. You should do the same for your own intepretation.
Hey, I'm not trying to say you guys are wrong, and remember this. This "interpretation" thing Nomura talks about, I defend it.
You seem to take it a lot further than he does, though, since he's been going right along with slowly doling out concrete answers to things.
I don't accept it, but I felt like I was being a douche so I figured I'd just leave it.
You don't accept it, even though that's explicitly what's stated to be the case.
Well, he was always by himself. A friend would have stuck with him, in my opinion.
Would Cloud have indicated he wanted someone with him? Would he have acted like he wanted someone to stick by him? Cloud's picking fights, here. He's the town bully.
Because they're part of a family, and the story kind of revolves around that family while they're taking care of Marlene and Denzel, who notice when they aren't getting along.
So why would Tifa's worry that Cloud loved her come into a platonic story? Why would thoughts on love and marriage go into a story about a platonic family?
In order, U10, Tifa's Profile, Case of Tifa, when Cloud's sitting with the children, and U10, Denzel's profile.
I didn't say you did. I was sporking the the idea that Aerith would hand Cloud over to someone with known romantic feelings for him and expect her never to act on those.
Did it say it was talking about that scene?
It did indeed. Tres provided the full quote not too long ago.
I went to two different places and they said that. Sorry.
Did the two places have 'Clerith' or 'Destiny' in their name?
Undying means forever. If his guilt is gone, that isn't forever. At the end of AC, it was being lifted. Cloud was like, gtfo guilt.
Undying means not worn down or destroyed by time.
Even the undying immortals Highlander die permanently if you chop their head off. As do the undying endless if you have the right sword. Like I said last post. Undying is not immutable.
And right before, Nomura was talking about peoples loves for her. Guilt isn't love.[/quote]
But guilt IS a feeling, and Nomura said people had their own loves AND FEELINGS For Aerith. And a feeling is what Cloud was stated to have.
Well, she does get peevish feelings in reaction to Cloud and Aerith together, when Aerith wasn't saying her feelings. But yeah, you could definitely be right.
But Aerith was being forward with Cloud when she had the peevish feelings.
And that assumes they're not frustration for her unbridled lust for Aerith who's interested in the wrong person, damnit.
Okay. Sorry.
By the way, Star Wars > Star Trek. In every way.
No argument on that front.
Because they're living a different life now, without Sephiroth and all the hell he brought.
But how will her being by his side be different. It's not the life that's different. It's the by his side that's in a different way before.
My bad. I really don't remember.
Well, try using the quote function and replying that way.
What's wrong with them letting us have our own interpretations? It makes the story more personal for everybody, honestly. It's nice.
Because Shakespeare was not speaking about dehumanization as a result of overindustrialization in the late 1800s, to give an egregious example of the form.
There are many possible correct answers. Not all possible answers are possibly correct.
It's only really been hinted that Cloud and Tifa could have a relationship. Possibility is there, of course, because it's been left off, but they're officially regarded as friends.
It's definitely been more than hinted at that they can. Even if we do simply take FTOIL as 'optional', that's a lot more than a hint.
It is not this black and white.
Well, Why not?
Who Cloud loves is not hugely relevant to the story, so what are we contradicting? He did say there are answers, not just one answer, right?
'Who made the Angel statue' and 'Where exactly did Vendel live during his time in the scavenger crew'are questions. There are answers to these questions. But only one 'correct' answer per question.
And what you are contradictiong is the other possible answers for 'who Cloud loves' which is my point. They can't stand together. They mutually exclude.
"I think I'm beginning to understand. An answer from the planet. The Promised Land. I think I can meet her...there."
That is my answer and I stick with it. We'll take from it whatever we see but no one said that we're wrong? What does it affect, which girl he likes? What is it contradicting?
Your answer is a quote where he's talking to Tifa about what can be done, in which Tifa responds with what they should do. Your answer has a perfectly parsimonious explanation completely irrelevant to the question of who Cloud does and doesn't love.
Your answer also doesn't prevent Cloud loving Tifa.
It said it's information given from the staff so maybe he was misinformed.
Regardless, Battle affects AV not at all. Maybe it did in early builds, but not in the finished product.
Sorry I didn't get to these last night, Tres. I was tied up with some other stuff.
Tres
(You were asking me some questions about the Date Mechanics)
I think that one's rather obvious. Cloud picks the person he likes best to go with him. Once again, it's a matter of who Cloud likes - Cloud's actions towards those people affect their affection levels for him.
Except that is not how the affections work AT ALL. Yuffie likes you more than Barret before she even joins the party. She likes you more for being a dick to her.
Pushing barrels the wrong way in the church is because Cloud doesn't like Aerith.
And Cloud doesn't pick. Someone ELSE shows up and TAKES Cloud out. He doesn't go ask them, they ask him.
Given that Cloud's a SOLDIER (or thinks he is at that time), Cloud wants someone along who can back him up in combat. Remember that it's Cloud who picks who to go with he and Barret. I always pick Aerith to go, since I like mages - I like using Aerith in combat. (I would guess that a lot of people here pick Tifa to go - I usually don't.) So, that's me as Cloud showing a preference for Aerith. That not only increases Aerith's affection level for Cloud, but it also means that Cloud likes Aerith better than Tifa.
So, if I choose Red 13 to join me there, I like furry animals better than any of the women? Or does he not count because he doesn't have a point value even though he's a valid choice?
And given the absurd difference in point values, you'd argue- I don't doubt- that when he chooses Aerith, he starts liking her a LOT MORE than when he chooses Tifa or Yuffie?
Because it IS related to the narrative. The Date Mechanics determine who Cloud loves in the story. Who Cloud loves is up to player control. There is no canon love interest.
You have absolutely no evidence, no justification for this baseless assertion other than your own say-so, Anastar.
None at all.
Because I'm not saying that my interpretation is the only possible way to see it. I been saying all along that who Cloud loves is up to the interpretation of the player, which means that I think either interpretation is valid. That's neutral.
Your words in this paragraph and your words, oh, everywhere else tell a different tale.
To me, the interpretation that Cloud loves Aerith makes much more sense. But if you want to think Cloud loves Tifa, go right ahead. What I object to is the idea that there is only one possible answer to the Love Triangle.
Yes, but you flat out reject the idea of a canon narrative for this choice, something that in your case, is a brand new development.
That's how you see the scene. It could just as easily be that Cloud fell asleep on the sofa while reading the newspaper with the light on, and Tifa came into the room, looked at him, then whispered that. Quite different from what you described.
"Tifa made sure Cloud was asleep."
That's creeper if she's not already there when he falls asleep.
Besides, all I said about that scene was that Tifa hoping that Cloud's feelings would change would explain that scene:
So [Tifa] may be hoping that things change, and that Cloud will fall in love with her someday. When and IF Cloud falls in love with her someday, then she'd be willing to give a relationship with him a try. But not until that happens. That would also explain why she asks if Cloud loves her in CoT. ~Anastar, Nov. 5
I was talking there about WHY Tifa asks Cloud if he loves her in CoT. She's wondering because Cloud never said he loved her during the HW scene, and Tifa's still hoping that Cloud will fall for her someday. That coincides with the LA version. I said something very different about Tifa being weak and/or clingy:
I note, once again, you're suggesting for your version of events here, that one particular event actually happened, in contrast to your statement above.
Also, why would she ask NOW of all times, when he's asleep, after he's begun growing distant? Your Tifa does not make sense.
Well, you're the one deciding that interpretation makes her weak. I never said it made her weak. If she's waiting around hoping that Cloud will get over Aerith someday, then it actually does make her strong. And it certainly doesn't make her clingy, either. ~Anastar, Nov. 5
Pretty much everyone here, man and woman alike, and many others beside have disagreed with you.
I said that the idea of Tifa waiting for Cloud to get over Aerith doesn't make her weak. If anything, it's very much the same as Tifa waiting around for Cloud to become a SOLDIER when he left Nibelheim.
She wanted a hero, and Cloud was her best chance of finding one since he was going to try and join SOLDIER like Sephiroth. She watched the newspapers for an article about a SOLDIER who was a hero like Sephiroth.
No, she watched the newspapers for Articles about CLOUD. Not for a SOLDIER who was a hero, any mention of Cloud, period.
Tifa was waiting around in her hometown, getting on with her life apart from not dating anyone else.
In CoT and beyond, she's hanging around with a man she knows doesn't love her in the hopes that he will in your view. How is that STRONG?
That wasn't who Cloud was at the time. She wanted Cloud only if he became a hero. SE even said so:
In those days, Tifa didn't take much notice to Cloud. The reason why she said to him "To be saved by a hero" was only to satisfy her childish princess desire. ~Cloud's profile, FFVII Ultimania Omega
Even though Cloud was holding feelings for Tifa from some time ago, Tifa's interest in Cloud did not start until the time when the Promise was exchanged. It might have been her loneliness due to her surrounding friends leaving one after another, but more than that, it seems largely in part to him making the promise to become her hero. ~Cloud's profile, FFVII Ultimania Omega
If she can wait around for Cloud to become a SOLDIER and a hero, then it's in character for Tifa to wait around for Cloud to get over Aerith. It seems Tifa's always wanting Cloud to be something different than what he really is.
Don't know about you, but from where I sit, Cloud's a motherfucking hero. In fact, he's a motherfucking hero on a horse who comes and Saves Tifa time and time again.
Cloud never got into SOLDIER, but Tifa didn't have to hold out for a Hero. He was one. And she believed in him, too. Yeah, she said 'if,' but she did have every confidence that Clould would return, excellent.
Then why did she wait around for Cloud to become a SOLDIER?
Not leaving her hometown and starting a tour guide business is 'waiting around' now?
If you think that makes Tifa weak, then Cloud is weak for waiting around for Tifa to notice him in Nibelheim as a kid. That also makes Yuna weak in FFX-2. It also makes Vincent weak for continuing to love Lucrecia.
Actually, yeah, I'd agree, Cloud was totally weak until he took action, Yuna was weak in 10-2 until she started DOING shit instead of WAITING, and Vincent would be the first to agree he's a weakass fuck for being Hung up on Lucrecia who I will remind you is not dead in the hopes that you will finally realize this and stop using her as an argument. Waiting for shit to change and not acting when it comes to love is entirely weak.
Then why insert a phrase of thirteen words that clearly refers to the Promise if it has no basis?
"Even though she was called and it was just the two of them" makes it clear that this is about the Promise because she wasn't called at the time of the Lifestream event.
Yes, she's clueless because she was called then and didn't realize. But she was informed in the lifestream. That's when 'was holding feelings' is present to, not just in this quote, but in the other quote that says 'Cloud and Tifa became aware of the feelings the other was holding in the lifestream' as well.
But what feelings did they talk about during the Lifestream event? They didn't talk about how Cloud currently feels for Tifa. They talked about Cloud's past crush on Tifa as a kid, how he used to look up at her window from outside, how he wanted her to notice him, and how he decided to join SOLDIER to get her to notice him. None of that is about how Cloud currently feels about Tifa today - it's all about his crush on her when he was a kid.
And so he was still holding that crush. QED.
I realize that Sony's English translations can suck, but it's beginning to sound like you're saying that we can only figure out a major part of the plot if we know Japanese. Does SE care
only about it's JP audience or something?
Does Sony care so little about the story? Signs point to yes.
Is it only possible to understand a vague translation by looking at the source language? Signs also point to yes. Quite often. Because here the distinction is between a 51-100% certainty and a say 95-100% certainty rating.
At any rate, "He'll be delighted for sure" doesn't necessarily mean that he's in love with her now. It could also mean that he's glad his strategy worked for getting her to notice him.
Once again, that would make Cloud a dick and the revelation of his past feelings completely irrelevant.
In the first place, SE did not reveal that Cloud had romantic feelings for Tifa when he was a kid. SE revealed that Cloud had a crush on her from afar when they weren't even friends.
I don't know what planet you're from, but on earth, a crush is a romantic feeling.
This is talking about BEFORE Cloud decided to join SOLDIER at the age of 12, so the feelings of wanting to be part of her group of friends, etc., could be happening when he was 9 or 10 or earlier.
Cloud was 14 when he told Tifa he was joining SOLDIER. Cloud also specifically wanted to be noticed by Tifa, not be part of her group. That's something you made up.
That's a crush, not love - no romantic feelings for Tifa were disclosed at that time.
You're really actually trying to argue that a crush is not a romantic feeling?
I have a feeling things will only get sillier from this point on.
In the second place, it's a love triangle. Kitase said that Cloud's supposed to waver between the two girls:
Kitase: When I first read Nojima’s scenario, I felt strongly that his image of a heroine was fresh. The hero didn’t have a typical personality, single-minded or righteous, and Aerith lived in the slums. Those things were really fresh. And having two heroines, Aerith and Tifa, and having the hero waver between them, at the time that was something new. ~Interview with the creators, pg. 8-13, 10th Anniversary Ultimania
wa·ver1 [wey-ver] Show IPA
verb (used without object)
1. to sway to and fro; flutter: Foliage wavers in the breeze.
2. to flicker or quiver, as light: A distant beam wavered and then disappeared.
3. become unsteady; begin to fail or give way: When she heard the news her courage wavered.
4. to shake or tremble, as the hands or voice: Her voice wavered.
5. to feel or show doubt, indecision, etc.; vacillate: He wavered in his determination.
5 is the most likely. So Cloud doesn't decide either way. He wavers at the start, because he's... wait for it... Oblivious!
Up to that point in the game, there's been no real good reason to think that Cloud might be interested in Tifa. There's been a few suggestions, but nothing all that definite. Why not establish at this time that Cloud used to have a crush on her as a kid? It's possible for a crush on Tifa as a kid to continue, but it's also possible for a crush on Tifa as a kid NOT to continue. That leads up well to the optional HA and LA versions of the HW scene.
But why make a note of informing us of this when Cloud is regaining his true self if it can turn out to have no bearing? The HA/LA variation (your version, where Low means he loves Aerith, even if you get the Yuffie or Barret date and the low version) actually makes more sense without the crush being present.
SE needed a memory that no one else knew about since they need to establish his identity, and Cloud kept the crush to himself when he was a kid. The idea of a crush is a personal memory that would help establish Cloud's identity. Obviously, Cloud is male and Tifa female, so the idea of a crush is made easy by that.
Except that the crush is not something that Cloud can remember that Tifa can confirm, which would defeat the point of bringing it up to restore Cloud's faith in his own existence. It must serve another narrative purpose.
So is the whole LTD, to be fair.
Which is a bitchy response to Tres's rather magnanimous disagreement that a crush cannot be love or romantic.
Again, that's a matter of opinion. Sure, it's possible for someone to have romantic feelings at that time, but it depends largely on the individual. What one person feels at the age of 16 with a crush isn't necessarily the exact same way another person feels at the age of 16 with a crush.
The fact that you're trying to tell me that Crushes are unrelated to romantic feelings tells me we've entered the 'IT SIMPLY CANNOT BE' phase of this discussion.
Now, once again, you're saying "in love" - that's only your opinion. It's a crush, and you cannot say that definitely means love.
He can say it means romantic feelings for, however. That's part and parcel of a crush. It's a romantic infatuation.
In the second place, it's been 4 years since Cloud saw Tifa. He left town when he was 12, and he's 16 at the time of the Nibelheim fire. Cloud and Tifa weren't writing to one another, so they hadn't been in contact. They didn't even know one another that well, according to Tifa. So what exactly would this crush be based on?
Knowing each other well enough.
It was two years, by the way. You're not good at this whole 'accurate information' thing, Anastar.
[ μ ] – εуλ 1986
8/11
· Cloud Strife is born in Nibelheim.
-SPAN OF TIME-
[ μ ] – εуλ 0000
December
· Tifa meets with Cloud at the Water Tower he had called her out to. She received the promise that he would “save her when she was in a pinch” from Cloud, who had said that he wanted to become a SOLDIER.
14 years when the promise was made. 16 Into the tube. Actually less than two years pass between these two points.
Was Cloud's crush, in the first place, based on anything since he hardly knew her? Would Cloud's crush be all that significant in the first place, since he barely knew her? How much did Cloud even think of Tifa over those 4 years between the ages of 12-16 when he never saw her or wrote to her? We have no idea. It's totally up to interpretation.
Two, and no, actually, it's not. We know that protecting people becomes an obsession of Cloud's, we know the promise is engraved in his heart, and- should Cloud fall in battle, he apologizes for not being able to fulfill the promise- all in BC.
The evidence that Cloud still has a crush on her at the age of 16 is that he puts his helmet on to hide from her. Cloud only said that he put his helmet on because he was embarrassed that he didn't make it into SOLDIER.
And that he didn't want Tifa seeing him as a failure.
BTW, once again, thank you for stabbing Clerith in the heart with your anti-C/T arguments.
Because if how well you know someone counts, goodbye Cloud loving Aerith.
If never being explicitly called love prevent Cloud from loving Tifa when they were younger, than what chance does Aerith have?
At least Tifa IS someone's beloved. And knows Cloud all too well. And supports the mentally weak side of Cloud. And was the only person Cloud opened his heart to. And is the person Cloud lives with, formed a family with together, and has a future together with.
But no, we can't POSSIBLY tell who the person that loves Tifa might be.
Once again, I ask, BTW,
If we cannot know who Tifa is beloved by, who her 'beloved-er' is because their name is never stated, how can we know who Man and Woman of COLB and COLW are? Their names are never stated either.
)
Hello, Mei~
