The Love Triangle Debate thread of KNEEL BEFORE ZOD OR SUFFER HIS WRATH (ignore the opening posts at your peril) (Round 6)

[GiddyUnicorn]

Can you give me the link? Cus the disclaimer is on the credit section on her site right now, and I really do remember Aly not to forget that when she created the site.

The disclaimer does not disavow that opening sentence.

It's a disclaimer pertaining to the authors themselves...

 

[Madame Mayor]

http://web.archive.org/web/20090208031830/http://www.clerith.com/Menu.htm

That's the 'latest' the archive seems to be able to pull.

 

[GiddyUnicorn]

Click on the site/contact section of that old website...

 

[Ryushikaze]

Can you give me the link? Cus the disclaimer is on the credit section on her site right now, and I really do remember Aly not to forget that when she created the site.

It's a disclaimer pertaining to the authors themselves...

Yes, I'm saying the disclaimer just says you're speaking without express authority. Not that you hold that contents of the site are 'mere opinion.'

In fact, the site says 'The whole issue of the love triangle will be discussed in detail, and evidence will be provided to show that Cloud and Aerith are the true and intended couple of the game. '

And that is again in contradiction to the idea that the whole affair is up to interpretation. It's saying her interpretation is correct and she has the evidence to show it.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

You misunderstand.

It's not a case of what she's saying sounding a certain way or even unintentionally coming across a certain way. It's that she changes her stance as it suits her.

The reason I've asked her to pick a position is not just because I'm tired of going back and forth, but because she often argues from two inherently contradictory positions that do not stand together. It literally makes no sense.

First she says the date mechanic determines who Cloud loves. When asked about the other 2 characters she ignores (Barret and Yuffie), Anastar has no answer as to why the other two are ignored even though they too have an AV that changes based on player choice, just like Tifa and Aeris.

Anastar claims that, no, actually only Aeris and Tifa are now to be counted, because it's narrative fact that there is a love triangle only between them three (Aeris, Tifa, Cloud). However, previous to this, she claimed that Tifa's love for Cloud is completely optional. If Tifa is optional (and the same must be applied to Aeris) then there is no love triangle. There is no need for the narrative to talk of a love triangle that the player may or may not create as factual.

 

[GiddyUnicorn]

Yes, I'm saying the disclaimer just says you're speaking without express authority. Not that you hold that contents of the site are 'mere opinion.'

It also says that everything the authors states in there are interpretations:

The interpretations on this site are those of the authors based on the evidence provided in games, movies, books, and stories published by Square-Enix, formerly known as SquareSoft.

In fact, the site says 'The whole issue of the love triangle will be discussed in detail, and evidence will be provided to show that Cloud and Aerith are the true and intended couple of the game. '

I believe in that as well, it's just my own interpretation of the game.

First she says the date mechanic determines who Cloud loves. When asked about the other 2 characters she ignores (Barret and Yuffie), Anastar says that only Tifa and Aeris are part of the love triangle and has no answer as to why the other two are ignored even though they too have an AV that changes based on player choice, just like Tifa and Aeris.


Anastar claims that, no, actually only Aeris and Tifa are now to becounted, because it's narrative fact that there is a love triaggle only between them three (Aeris, Tifa, Cloud). However, previous to this, she claimed that Tifa's love for Cloud is completely optional. If Tifa is optional (and the same must be applied to Aeris) then there is no love triangle.

Like I said, I don't exactly know the full details, but perhaps PMing her would help straighten it out?

 

[Ryushikaze]

And if your interpretation is that C/A is the 'true and intended' pairing, that also means you don't think it's optional.

See, when I bandy about words like 'true' and especially when I offer evidence, I am discussing fact, real or purported. Not preference or optionality. Especially if I am showing someone something that is true and providing evidence for it.

That's more than a mere opinion, it's a truth claim about the material.

 

[GiddyUnicorn]

It's my choice to believe in it, and that itself is optional since I accept that there are other beliefs that's different from mine.

 

[Ryushikaze]

It's my choice to believe in it, and that itself is optional since I accept that there are other beliefs that's different from mine.

Okay, now you're trying to play semantics.

You believe that Cloud and Aerith are the 'true and intended pairing? Then you don't believe players have a choice. You do not believe Cloud has the option not to choose Aerith. You believe it is intended that he loves Aerith, that it is true that he loves her.

You recognize that you have the option to believe different things, but that is not the same as believing the subject itself is optional.

Guess what.
That's canon.
That's what we mean when we say canon. We mean true within the narrative.

So you're not pro-optionality. You're pro C/A as narratively true.
Yes, it's your personal stance that this is the case, but it- and not the 'up to player choice' stance- is still your stance.

 

[Danseru-kun]

The "option to believe what's true" is different from "whatever happens in the narrative is purely optional."

The first one has no issue. We're arguing against the latter.

It's sad that my questions were ignored, and that's speaks for itself. Because of that people will make assumptions on why she ignored them and she must be ready for those.

 

[GiddyUnicorn]

You believe that Cloud and Aerith are the 'true and intended pairing? Then you don't believe players have a choice.

How so when I accept that players perspective can differ from mine?

You recognize that you have the option to believe different things, but that is not the same as believing the subject itself is optional.

Which is interesting since I thought we were talking about beliefs being the subject itself here....What subject are you referring at? The option for Cloud to choose anyone or the option for players to believe in their pairing? The optional scenes?

So you're not pro-optionality. You're pro C/A as narratively true.
Yes, it's your personal stance that this is the case, but it- and not the 'up to player choice' stance- is still your stance.

In overall beliefs or another particular subject? I don't even know where my support for optionality is coming from. We were talking about Aly saying that LA version did happen, then we were talking about the premise which is her belief, I'm guessing optionality still applies there, but I'm guessing you mean it differently...

The "option to believe what's true" is different from "whatever happens in the narrative is purely optional.

The first one has no issue. We're arguing against the latter. "

Then us believieng in our own truth shouldn't really be an issue then...That's pretty much what Aly meant...

 

[Ryushikaze]

How so when I accept that players perspective can differ from mine?

You believe they have a choice in what to believe. NOT in who Cloud loves. Please, don't partially reply to my points. I had

Which is interesting since I thought we were talking about beliefs being the subject itself here....What subject are you referring at? The option for Cloud to choose anyone or the option for players to believe in their pairing? The optional scenes?

The option for players to choose who Cloud loves.
You know, the thing you apparenly think is possible while still believing C/A is the true and intended pairing.

In overall beliefs or another particular subject? I don't even know where my support for optionality is coming from.

The fact that Anastar is inconsistent about whether or not there is a true answer to the LTD or if it's entirely up to player choice.
Not if we have a choice of which to believe, but whether she believes we have a choice in Cloud's partner or not. She's inconsistent on that subject.
Now so are you.

We were talking about Aly saying that LA version did happen, then we were talking about the premise which is her belief, I'm guessing optionality still applies there, but I'm guessing you mean it differently...

How does 'optionality' apply when her Premise is that a non optional quote says Tifa is jealous and that the only reason Tifa would be jealous is that Cloud loved Aerith?

Then us believieng in our own truth shouldn't really be an issue then...That's pretty much what Aly meant...

The problem is, "Your own truth" and "The truth" are at odds with each other. We say there's a true outcome, a true pairing. That's C/T. She- at present- denies this. She says there is none.
Previously, she insisted Clerith was the true and intended pairing.
Previously, she argued rather explicitly that C/A was narratively true. Her essay, still on her site, argues the pairing is narratively true.

I'd rather she be honest with her position, and not shroud it behind this false argument of 'It's all optional' when we know that's not what she truly believes.

 

[GiddyUnicorn]

You believe they have a choice in what to believe. NOT in who Cloud loves. Please, don't partially reply to my points. I had

..and isn't that the subject right now? Player's beliefs? Would that imply that my beliefs reflect that of Cloud himself in the game?

The option for players to choose who Cloud loves.
You know, the thing you apparenly think is possible while still believing C/A is the true and intended pairing.

Which is in the game? That's what we're talking about right now? Not Aly's beliefs and player's beliefs in general?

The fact that Anastar is inconsistent about whether or not there is a true answer to the LTD or if it's entirely up to player choice.
Not if we have a choice of which to believe, but whether she believes we have a choice in Cloud's partner or not. She's inconsistent on that subject.
Now so are you.

Well we're going from a lot of subjects right now.

1. You posted about Aly saying that the LA version did happen.

2. When I said that may not be the case.

3. You decided that her premise suggest that the LA version did happen.

4. When I told you that it's just her belief and interpretation, and having the choice to have that belief..

5. It somehow jumped on how her beliefs is now reflecting the game/squareenix/creators itself now.

..and if that's what we're actually talking about right now, does that mean you're implying that her beliefs represents the game and the narrative itself indefinitely?

How does 'optionality' apply when her Premise is that a non optional quote says Tifa is jealous and that the only reason Tifa would be jealous is that Cloud loved Aerith?

I thought her premise was that she believes Cloud loves Aerith? You kinda said so yourself:

http://thelifestream.net/forums/showpost.php?p=383411&postcount=2252

The problem is, "Your own truth" and "The truth" are at odds with each other. We say there's a true outcome, a true pairing. That's C/T. She- at present- denies this. She says there is none.
Previously, she insisted Clerith was the true and intended pairing.
Previously, she argued rather explicitly that C/A was narratively true. Her essay, still on her site, argues the pairing is narratively true.

Not sure about that really...

 

[aerbear]

Hi. Ryu, GLD, I'm still going to respond to you if you want, I'm so sorry it's taking me long, certain things are just making it difficult right now to really devote a lot of time to this. But there's a few things I should say now, maybe I can help clear this all up.

Truthfully, both pairings are kind of above fanon, below canon. Obviously, CloudxAerith and CloudxTifa are better supported than, say, BarretxYuffie. The fact that both pairings are pretty vague and hinted at says this.

I know how much some people hate this quote but it explains everything.
"What's not already shown in the games/films - I think it's better for the fans to enjoy it by imagining it as you like..."

He was talking specifically about the relationships. And what's not already been shown, or said, in the games or films yet? Cloud's present feelings, non-optionally.

People are saying the High Affection HW scene being canon changes this because that's the one that's in story summaries from the Ultimanias. But the Ultimanias are just information books. They don't continue the story and I strongly believe the Ultimanias weren't there to make anything canon out of what was optional before. It'd be different if it were actually a part of this 'narrative' that Tifa or Cloud or anybody remembers the High Affection version. It isn't. Watching Advent Children or playing Dirge of Cerberus or reading OTWTAS (the things actually telling the story), it isn't brought up. No reason to think it's the one that "happened" but you can imagine. Ohai, word that Nomura used!

Previously, she insisted Clerith was the true and intended pairing.
Previously, she argued rather explicitly that C/A was narratively true. Her essay, still on her site, argues the pairing is narratively true.

I'd rather she be honest with her position, and not shroud it behind this false argument of 'It's all optional' when we know that's not what she truly believes.

Honestly, when she says Clerith is the true pair, she fully acknowledges it's her personal view, which is different from saying it's canon. She just doesn't put "in my opinion" in front of everything.

It's like saying "Halo is better than Call of Duty." That's pretty clearly an opinion (and a fact but uh, you get it ), but people won't always say that outright. I don't know anybody who goes through life constantly saying "but fear not because this is just what I think!" after every opinion, especially on a website/forum basically devoted to your opinion.

 

[GiddyUnicorn]

I don't know anybody who goes through life constantly saying "but fear not because this is just what I think!" after every opinion, especially on a website/forum basically devoted to your opinion.

I actually thought the disclaimer in that website was enough really. Guess not lol...

 

[Ryushikaze]

..and isn't that the subject right now? Player's beliefs?

No, the subjects is whether or not you and Anastar believe that there is optionality or if there is a singular true pairing. You are both now inconsistent on this regards.

Would that imply that my beliefs reflect that of Cloud himself in the game?

No. Your beliefs are your own beliefs. That doesn't reflect anything.
Even if your belief does match that which is actually real, it's not because you believe it.
In this case since your beliefs are about Cloud's romantic leanings, not his beliefs.

Which is in the game? That's what we're talking about right now? Not Aly's beliefs and player's beliefs in general?

We are discussing that which is in the narrative AND Annie's belief about such. Anastar's belief is alternately that there is 'a true and intended pairing' and that there is no such thing, that it's down to player choice.

Well we're going from a lot of subjects right now.

1. You posted about Aly saying that the LA version did happen.

Which she did.

2. When I said that may not be the case.

3. You decided that her premise suggest that the LA version did happen.

No, Her premise does not suggest the LA version happen, her premise assumes as true that Cloud loves Aerith.

4. When I told you that it's just her belief and interpretation, and having the choice to have that belief..

Annie has every right to believe anything, even what it is wrong.
However, Anastar has made truth claims. THAT is not something that is 'just her interpretation'

5. It somehow jumped on how her beliefs is now reflecting the game/squareenix/creators itself now.

She is stating that a particular quote says Tifa is Jealous. She says Tifa only has reason to be jealous if Cloud loves Aerith. She said the LA happens because Cloud loves Aerith.
This is not rocket science.

..and if that's what we're actually talking about right now, does that mean you're implying that her beliefs represents the game and the narrative itself indefinitely?

No. And don't you fucking dare try that sophistic horseshit.
What I am saying, G, is that Anastar IS NOT speaking merely of her beliefs, but is TRYING to make truth statements on the narrative DISGUISED as merely her belief.

I thought her premise was that she believes Cloud loves Aerith? You kinda said so yourself:

http://thelifestream.net/forums/showpost.php?p=383411&postcount=2252

I said the same thing twice with different wordings, G. If you're trying to catch me in a contradiction, try harder.

Not sure about that really...

Not sure about which, G? I made several points. Please, be more explicit. Detail your own stance about what you're not sure about.

Hi. Ryu, GLD, I'm still going to respond to you if you want, I'm so sorry it's taking me long, certain things are just making it difficult right now to really devote a lot of time to this. But there's a few things I should say now, maybe I can help clear this all up.

Truthfully, both pairings are kind of above fanon, below canon. Obviously, CloudxAerith and CloudxTifa are better supported than, say, BarretxYuffie. The fact that both pairings are pretty vague and hinted at says this.

'Cloud and Tifa confirm their feelings for each other' isnt vague.
Fuck, C/T has more evidence and direct confirmation than Celes and Locke or Irvine and Selphie.

I know how much some people hate this quote but it explains everything.
"What's not already shown in the games/films - I think it's better for the fans to enjoy it by imagining it as you like..."

He was talking specifically about the relationships. And what's not already been shown, or said, in the games or films yet? Cloud's present feelings, non-optionally.

Not so. They are in the game. And the rest of the compilation. The Highwind scene is in the game. We're told romantic feelings are confirmed under the highwind. Period. End of.
It's IN the game.

People are saying the High Affection HW scene being canon changes this because that's the one that's in story summaries from the Ultimanias. But the Ultimanias are just information books. They don't continue the story and I strongly believe the Ultimanias weren't there to make anything canon out of what was optional before.

Ultimanias exist to explain and elucidate. It's not 'making canon what's optional,' it's 'revealing as canon what was always canon.'

It'd be different if it were actually a part of this 'narrative' that Tifa or Cloud or anybody remembers the High Affection version. It isn't. Watching Advent Children or playing Dirge of Cerberus or reading OTWTAS (the things actually telling the story), it isn't brought up. No reason to think it's the one that "happened" but you can imagine. Ohai, word that Nomura used!

We're TOLD what happened that evening. No one has to remember it for it to have happened, Aerbear.

Honestly, when she says Clerith is the true pair, she fully acknowledges it's her personal view, which is different from saying it's canon. She just doesn't put "in my opinion" in front of everything.

It's like saying "Halo is better than Call of Duty." That's pretty clearly an opinion (and a fact but uh, you get it ), but people won't always say that outright. I don't know anybody who goes through life constantly saying "but fear not because this is just what I think!" after every opinion, especially on a website/forum basically devoted to your opinion.

I actually thought the disclaimer in that website was enough really. Guess not lol...

'This is my view' does not change 'I think this is true'
It merely means you acknowledge that it is only your view that something is true.
But it means Anastar has thought that Clerith is true up until 2009. She thought it was true and intended in the narrative. Not optional.

 

[GiddyUnicorn]

No, the subjects is whether or not you and Anastar believe that there is optionality or if there is a singular true pairing. You are both now inconsistent on this regards.

That really depends whether you think our beliefs is reflecting the game itself and its narrative indefnitely.

We are discussing that which is in the narrative AND Annie's belief about such. Anastar's belief is alternately that there is 'a true and intended pairing' and that there is no such thing, that it's down to player choice.

Consequently, by saying that, would it be possible to infer that she has her beliefs, but does not necessarily reflect the game itself, hence why there's no canon couple and it's really up to player's pov?

No, Her premise does not suggest the LA version happen, her premise assumes as true that Cloud loves Aerith.

..and that doesn't suggest that the LA version happened? What's the premise for the LA version then?

Annie has every right to believe anything, even what it is wrong.
However, Anastar has made truth claims. THAT is not something that is 'just her interpretation'

Did she say her belief reflects that of the game indefinitely?

She is stating that a particular quote says Tifa is Jealous. She says Tifa only has reason to be jealous if Cloud loves Aerith. She said the LA happens because Cloud loves Aerith.
This is not rocket science.

...and by saying that she believes Cloud loves Aerith, then that would automatically imply that it reflects the game and story itself?

No. And don't you fucking dare try that sophistic horseshit.
What I am saying, G, is that Anastar IS NOT speaking merely of her beliefs, but is TRYING to make truth statements on the narrative DISGUISED as merely her belief.

Do you consider the possiblity that she's really just talking about her beliefs and not really disguising it as merely her belief?

'This is my view' does not change 'I think this is true'
It merely means you acknowledge that it is only your view that something is true.
But it means Anastar has thought that Clerith is true up until 2009. She thought it was true and intended in the narrative. Not optional.

So stating her beliefs does actually reflects that of the game itself/narrative/square/creators in your view?

 

[Splintered]

Are we seriously going to dissect the mind of Anastar, who cares. She's contradictory sometimes, it happens. Onto the actual arguments;

I believe in that as well, it's just my own interpretation of the game.

Just as a starting base

>Do you think that Cloud and Tifa's relationship has any romantic side to it?
>How do you think Cloud-Aerith's relationship is as it stands now? Like is it just a "love someone that's dead" or is there an actual relationship
>Do you think that Cloud fell in love with Aerith in the game despite his issues? Did they start any sort of serious relationship?

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I strongly believe the Ultimanias weren't there to make anything canon out of what was optional before.

Based on what?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

You misunderstand.

It's not a case of what she's saying sounding a certain way or even unintentionally coming across a certain way. It's that she changes her stance as it suits her.

The reason I've asked her to pick a position is not just because I'm tired of going back and forth, but because she often argues from two inherently contradictory positions that do not stand together. It literally makes no sense.

First she says the date mechanic determines who Cloud loves. When asked about the other 2 characters she ignores (Barret and Yuffie), Anastar has no answer as to why the other two are ignored even though they too have an AV that changes based on player choice, just like Tifa and Aeris.

Anastar claims that, no, actually only Aeris and Tifa are now to be counted, because it's narrative fact that there is a love triangle only between them three (Aeris, Tifa, Cloud). However, previous to this, she claimed that Tifa's love for Cloud is completely optional. If Tifa is optional (and the same must be applied to Aeris) then there is no love triangle. There is no need for the narrative to talk of a love triangle that the player may or may not create as factual.

More to the point, the woman claims that Yuffie and Barret's roles in the date mechanics don't count because it's narrative fact that it's a love triangle between C, A and T -- but then also insists that the date mechanics shape the narrative with regard to who Cloud wants to be with. Ah, and refuses to accept that Tifa's feelings for Cloud are narrative fact rather than something to be influenced by the date mechanics.

Can anyone else wrap their head around that? I can't.

Even more confusing is the current convo between Ryu and GU. I'm so lost with that. I vote for moving on.

 

[Dashell]

Even more confusing is the current convo between Ryu and GU. I'm so lost with that. I vote for moving on.

I myself, am enjoying reading it very much, but if it's time to move on, it's time to move on

I understand what GU is saying. I mean I see where Ryu is coming from too, but I think the point is that Anastar feels we're only discussing interpretations here, where as Ryu and many others feel we're discussing facts. I think that's where all the confusion is coming from. And I don't see why it needs to be discussed further than that really.

EDIT
wow I fucked that up, I hope no one saw that

EDIT II
BTW
I thought bringing up the past and using it as a weapon was against the rules? Can we be consistant about this please?

 

[Master Bates]

Signed in ---> answered some messages ---> opened LTD thread ----> found 3 pages of discussing Anastar. Classy LTD.

Not to mention that you generalize not just everyone in this thread, but the entirety of TLS, claiming that is a 'Cloti Forum'.

Yes, the bold words are definitely untrue. You see, TLS is far from a "Cloti Forum". It is, in truth, the lair of

I told people the LTD was better off and much nicer when I we posted in poetry form. Just saying.

Though on the subject of quote mining, I had a look at that 'apathetic' quote that was being brought up:

分岐　決戦前夜に……
宝条の暴走を止めてから大空洞へ突入するまでにくり広げられるティファとの会話場面は、ティファの好感度によって分岐する。好感度が低いと、ふたりで夜を明かす場面の会話が淡白で短め。翌朝の操縦室の場面では、ティファが「聞いてたの？」と言ってつま先をトントンとする。一方、好感度が高いと、ふたりで夜を明かす場面の会話が濃く、操縦室ではティファが「見てたの？」と恥ずかしがってへたりこむのだ（→Ｐ．２０１）。

・画像（これは、俺たちふたりにゆるされたさいごの時間かもしれないから……）
好感度が高い場合、ふたりで過ごす夜が意味深なものに……。

I don't know if the full thing has been quoted elsewhere, but I only seemed to have come across it with the parts in blue (pardon the font colouring) missing. Which is the part that says if Tifa's affection value is high, the conversation is deeper. I'm not sure what the point of leaving the latter part out is unless it's to make it seem like the book is try to paint the whole scene in a less meaningful/emotion light.

I'm also not sure what the argument about this quote was supposed to be. I figured, from quick glances at new replies to this thread in the past, that it was about the conversation shown in the game. But it kind of sounds that it's being used to determine what happened after the 'cameras stopped rolling'?

I figured it was just talking about the actual conversation you see, but to go on what isn't scene there's the caption for the accompanying screenshot (Cloud telling her that this might be the only time they have left from the high affection scene), which says that if Tifa's affection is high then the night (rather than 'conversation [scene]' used before) becomes something meaningful or significant. Complete with the old 'end a sentence like this to make it sound more dramatic...' ellipsis.

The summary of the story also contains this line for the scene:

残された最後の時間でお互いの想いを打ち明け、そして……。

"In their final remaining hours they disclose their feelings for each other, and..."

I don't really see why you would make a point of mentioning that they've told each other their feelings if it was just an apathetic and short conversation. It had already mentioned that Cloud and Tifa stayed behind alone, they could have just left it at that and moved on.


At this point in time, I'm not that bothered.

Anonymous or not, if people don't like I'll be just a biased Cloti again

I've seen these quotes actually, but I didn't know they came from the same paragraph of the same source. Thanks for this, Hito. This should be an additional laser in shooting down the "LA version happened" argument.

 

[Dashell]

Signed in ---> answered some messages ---> opened LTD thread ----> found 3 pages of discussing Anastar. Classy LTD.

What do you think the L stands for in LTD?... Anastar!... oh wait...

I've seen these quotes actually, but I didn't know they came from the same paragraph of the same source. Thanks for this, Hito. This should be an additional laser in shooting down the "LA version happened" argument.

So this basically confirms that no feelings were shared in the LA version, right?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I myself, am enjoying reading it very much, but if it's time to move on, it's time to move on

I understand what GU is saying. I mean I see where Ryu is coming from too, but I think the point is that Anastar feels we're only discussing interpretations here, where as Ryu and many others feel we're discussing facts. I think that's where all the confusion is coming from. And I don't see why it needs to be discussed further than that really.

EDIT
wow I fucked that up, I hope no one saw that

EDIT II
BTW
I thought bringing up the past and using it as a weapon was against the rules? Can we be consistant about this please?

Que, I know you want to bridge peace, but there is no way Anastar thinks this is a discussion about interpretation while everyone else thinks it's a discussion of canon. The words "canon" and "official" have been used too much in this thread --including by Anastar herself -- for that to be the remotest of possibilities.

Agreed about bringing up the past, though. Everyone, drop the matter of what her site said, when. She's made her inconsistent position more than evident enough in this thread without needing to go that far back for references. I mean, it is always possible for people to change their minds (even though she hasn't), and it's the inconsistent stance within this thread that has been infuriating.

 

[GiddyUnicorn]

That's kinda the problem though, there's quite a number of people who do think we're simply discussing interpretations.For one thing, I really doubt there's a lot of talk on officallity in order for people to talk about canonity....It's not that hard to believe that Aly is still treating this as a discussion on interpretations...

..and Aly never really changed her mind. That's just really her expressing her beliefs in that website. It's also in the new website too.

http://clerith.heliohost.org/Menu.htm

This is a website devoted to Cloud and Aerith's love as portrayed in Final Fantasy VII, the Compilation, and other games. The whole issue of the Love Triangle will be discussed in detail with evidence to show that Cloud and Aerith love one another.

I'm pretty sure she's still allowed to express her own beliefs in her own website....I hope? I really just don't understand why ya'll think she suddenly change in 2009, when it's pretty much the same thing.


Edit:

>Do you think that Cloud and Tifa's relationship has any romantic side to it?
>How do you think Cloud-Aerith's relationship is as it stands now? Like is it just a "love someone that's dead" or is there an actual relationship
>Do you think that Cloud fell in love with Aerith in the game despite his issues? Did they start any sort of serious relationship?

I'm guessing this is one of those long term commitments. Tell you what, we do this on PMs, the same way as Aly. I'll try to get to you as best as I can.

That goes for everyone here.