The Love Triangle Debate thread of KNEEL BEFORE ZOD OR SUFFER HIS WRATH (ignore the opening posts at your peril) (Round 6)

[Morana]

It's also missing big golden bracelets.

Here's the trick folks, it's BOTH WOMEN'S HANDS.

Aerith's leading his dopey ass back to his body so he can be a big damn hero and save Tifa because AERITH WOULD DO THAT FOR HER FRIENDS.

Also, re: 'Said Koibito and is wrong' Ataru Morobishi. Like every episode of Uresei Yatsura.

I wish I could thank this post more than once.
Seriously, downplaying Tifa's or Aerith's importance is just silly and it accomplishes nothing.
And people who deny it was Aerith's hand....

 

[Danseru-kun]

Ok an overly surprising news flash that will blow your minds away because this is totally so new

Risa confirmed that Aerith's "engraved in his heart" and the promise to Tifa "etched in his memory (which is actually chest)" is literally the same. Wee surprise

Actually, 心 means heart and 胸 means breast.
but they sometimes mean the same meanings, heart.
It depends on the context.

in this case, both is ok and has the same meaning.
you can choose with your feelings

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Yeah, the two wordings of the idiom have precisely the same meaning. , 心 (kokoro) is the heart and can refer to the seat of emotion; 胸 (mune) is the chest and where the kokoro resides.

 

[jazzflower92]

I got the implication it was the other way around that Tifa was his heart while Aerith was his light.

 

[Ryushikaze]

The only 'Light' Cloud has would be in relation to the not-canon-to-FF7 Kingdom Hearts... and Tifa is still his light in KH.

 

[jazzflower92]

I do think Cloud has different feelings for both Tifa and Aerith.Aerith for the bond they created together before she died while Tifa for being the one who always tries to keep him on his feet.

 

[Danseru-kun]

Now I had to deal with people insisting that Cloud cried for Aerith but didn't for Zack because it's raining and it's never stated that he indeed cry and didn't feel anything as strong for Zack because the OG didn't show it. Then it's because I'm a Cloti that I try to show Zack's importance to downplay Clerith when my post has nothing to do with Cloti and I'm just butthurt over the fact that Cloud cried for Aerith.

/headache

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

What Danseru learned today: a character from an early PS1-era 3D game announcing in a text box that their eyes are burning (if you wanted to nitpick in return: Cloud doesn't actually say he's crying ) is a more powerful presentation of sorrow than the same character visibly crying (accompanied by a grief-stricken wail and a prolonged close-up on their face) in modern CG.

And apparently it's only possible to cry for one person in your lifetime -- and you must be in love with that person.

 

[Ryushikaze]

What Danseru learned today: a character from an early PS1-era 3D game announcing in a text box that their eyes are burning (if you wanted to nitpick in return: Cloud doesn't actually say he's crying ) is a more powerful presentation of sorrow than the same character visibly crying (accompanied by a grief-stricken wail and a prolonged close-up on their face) in modern CG.

And apparently it's only possible to cry for one person in your lifetime -- and you must be in love with that person.

Yep, that sounds about right on the 'Crazy-ometer' to be a shipping argument.

It still gets me that folks think the end of Disc 1 is a more emotional PRESENTATION than the end of CC.
We can SEE Cloud's eyes and hear his painful wail in CC. Disc 1, he just sort of calmly says his eyes are burning.

 

[I Am Not Me]

And apparently it's only possible to cry for one person in your lifetime -- and you must be in love with that person.

And it's Zack.

Therefore CLACK.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

Aerith's leading his dopey ass back to his body so he can be a big damn hero and save Tifa because AERITH WOULD DO THAT FOR HER FRIENDS.

No, Aeris only reaches out when she wants to cop a feel.

 

[Morana]

And apparently it's only possible to cry for one person in your lifetime -- and you must be in love with that person.

Wow, I cried recently when my grandmother died. I don't like where this is going.

 

[Vendel]

Obvious to us. But I have seen it described as "a hand in the light" or some such.

And to add, I can't recall a source saying "Cloud reaches for Aertih". Which is why I say Cloud is unaware it is her spirit guiding him back to his senses.


It's certainly not as some would describe it, "the most romantic scene in FFVII". Then again those people also say that Cloud is imagining being felt up by Aerith when he stands in the rain at the end of ACC.

 

[Danseru-kun]

What Danseru learned today: a character from an early PS1-era 3D game announcing in a text box that their eyes are burning (if you wanted to nitpick in return: Cloud doesn't actually say he's crying ) is a more powerful presentation of sorrow than the same character visibly crying (accompanied by a grief-stricken wail and a prolonged close-up on their face) in modern CG.

And apparently it's only possible to cry for one person in your lifetime -- and you must be in love with that person.

Well technically, the "crying" they refer is something from the FFVII Story Playback saying "young Cloud cried" when Sephiroth is controlling his body to kill Aerith.

Well, I would cry too if I'm forced to kill someone, even if I hate that person.

But I just can't believe some minority denies Cloud's crying over Zack death.

 

[Morana]

Well technically, the "crying" they refer is something from the FFVII Story Playback saying "young Cloud cried" when Sephiroth is controlling his body to kill Aerith.

Well, I would cry too if I'm forced to kill someone, even if I hate that person.

But I just can't believe some minority denies Cloud's crying over Zack death.

I honestly don't get this. Zack was his best friend who died in front of his eyes protecting him. Why is so hard to understand that Cloud would cry because of that? How is that even related to ltd? Cloud crying over Zack's death in no way diminshes the fact that he was devastated when Aerith died.
Zack's death was one of the most emotional scenes for me because I could feel Cloud's pain when he screamed in anguish. It was so heartbreaking to watch.

 

[Danseru-kun]

^

It's the downplaying tactic. They want to show Aerith is the most special person in Cloud's life by making things exclusive to her and her alone.

Zack wasn't as important because "Cloud didn't mention him much in the OG" and "Cloud only laughs to Aerith" in the course of the game that's why she's much better. This goes to ridiculous lengths such as "Cloud never cried for anyone except for Aerith." The exclusivity then brings out nasty double standards where anything Cloud feels for Aerith is automatically romantic love when his feelings for Tifa is friendship and friendship alone.

When you don't agree, you're in denial, you're not a neutral and you're biased, possibly brainwashed by TLS. Sometimes Cloti is not even friendship, it's just obligation because he was forced to ride on her promise.

True, Zack wasn't emphasized in the OG but even in that game, he really did something for Cloud which is no doubt important. Zack saved Cloud from Hojo's lab even if this means slowing him down. Even in their polygon glory, before dying Zack was checking on Cloud and protecting him. Plot-wise though, it wouldn't be a good idea to show Cloud telling about his friend you can only see in an optional flashback to his party who don't even know him.

And when you point out how special others are, you'll get accused of downplaying Clerith. Because when you try to remind how important Zack and Tifa is, you're diminishing the exclusivity of Cloud's feelings and actions for Aerith because you know, being in love with someone means you should be an ungrateful, insensitive bastard for the friend who died for you.

And lastly, when you try to show Zack's importance, it's a Cloti agenda subliminally bring down Clerith.

So yeah

 

[Morana]

^^
So Cloud must love only Aerith and shouldn't give a damn about anybody else? What a great guy. I seriously doubt Aerith would love such an insensitive jerk. Loving someone doesn't mean you can treat others like dirt.
And no, Tifa is not even a friend to Cloud, she is just a clingy bitch he has to put up with because he is apparently incapable to find some other place to stay.
Bashing Zack is really getting on my nerves too. If Zack didn't protect Cloud, Cloud wouldn't have even met Aerith in the first place. So they(not all of them, I don't want to generalize) can think about that next time they try to downplay Zack's importance.
Cloud has his flaws but he cares about his friends. He is not a despicable bastard. He even said to Sephiroth that there is not a thing he doesn't cherish.

I fail to see how saying Cloud cares about his friends, in this case Zack, is downplaying Clerith. It doesn't even have anything to do with ltd, imo.

I love Tifa, I love CloTi but I would never say that he loves and cares only about her and no one else. In fact, I find friendship very important and it says a lot about a guy who cares about his friends.

 

[Master Bates]

Just came back to say that it always frustrates me how anything related to Cloud-Tifa-Aerith-Zack is relegated to LTD.

FFVII is a lot more than the LTD, folks.




Note: This thing is still going. I'm rather... impressed. O_O

Edit: What am I saying? This has been going on for more than a decade already. This isn't anything new. Well, go on, guys.



Edit 2: Caught up reading the last 2 pages of this thread (to know what all of you are currently up about) and I just want to give my .02 on something re: Jerkifying Cloud for Lurve...

I don't understand but what's so great about that kind of love? Would you even consider it one? What do they find romantic about a crippling affection that makes a person separated from his direct environment? That's totally unhealthy and unromantic at all. I dunno but cheesy as this may sound, I believe that genuine love, romantic or not, should result in the betterment of one's being, and not one that leads him to his downfall. And that it makes the person subjected/objected to such love a more grateful, appreciative, and considerate individual. Most of all, it makes one more appreciative and respectful to one's self.

I just don't get it.

 

[Kermitu Kleric Katie]

Cleriths seem to think that Cloud has a negative opinion of everyone except Aerith, because apparently even just being friends with someone who isn't Aerith downplays Clerith too much.

 

[Unlucky]

Well they can go ahead and fangirl over THEIR version of Cloud. It's clear as day that it's not the real Cloud SE is trying to portray, and definitely NOT the Cloud we fans grew to love.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

We been saying it as long as I've been involved in the LTD for sure, probably long before as well: Clerith!Cloud is a complete asshole.

 

[Kermitu Kleric Katie]

And Clerith!Aerith is a total Mary Sue. Most cleriths don't really understand Cloud or Aerith's personalities at all.

 

[Vendel]

And no, Tifa is not even a friend to Cloud, she is just a clingy bitch he has to put up with because he is apparently incapable to find some other place to stay.

This one always stuck out to me. Why is it that Cloud has no options but to be with Tifa? He literally could have done anything he wanted. He chose being with Tifa. Even over trying to "be" with Aerith.

Of course I also have seen it said that since Aerith literally lives inside the mako in Cloud's body that Aerith is always with him after AC. So it doesn't matter where he lives. That is the reason he moves back in with Tifa. A warm bed and hot meals (probably the only reason he was there in the first place. Tifa's feelings be dammed).

Aerith is always with him.

Which is why he rides out to flower fields to meet her.

...

 

[Kermitu Kleric Katie]

Why is it that Cloud has no options but to be with Tifa?

Because he cannot resist the gravitational pull of her boobies.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

Who can?