The Love Triangle Debate thread of KNEEL BEFORE ZOD OR SUFFER HIS WRATH (ignore the opening posts at your peril) (Round 6)

[Dashell]

Because for most people, there's not a need to PROVE by scaping for every piece of "evidence" that Cloud loves Aeris, not Tifa.

People like your goodself aside, and people with short attention span, FF7 is a very simple story once you play it twice. First time, it can confuse, second time, it's evident. Japanese literature doesn't spoonfed its audience like the West does. It doesn't feel an obligation to explain what is obvious. By saying Cloud has a special bond with Aeris it's highlighting a key aspect of Cloud's arc. His bond with Aeris - his code, his honour, his respect and his responsibility - and his acceptance of how important she was, are all absolutely key to Cloud's personality. This isn't love. This is character arc. His guilt is built on all these factors, just as his failure of Tifa, his hometown, Zack caused him to breakdown. His bond with Aeris is special - its key to Cloud as a character. It's not love. You want it to be love, that's the key issue here and you will hunt anything which will justify something that any sensible man will look stunned at.

If you need to find quotes from books to prove to you are righteous on a commercial, mainstream, made for family entertainment video game, either the game is crap and can't tell a story, or you're looking for story that isn't there.



You played Cloud's romantic date? It's not romantic. Have you watched any Japanese films or read the books? Cloud is a typical teen archetype - dragged into romantic subplots against his certainties. That's the comedy, not romance.

And again, the one irrefutable fact you sidestep because it destroys the whole debate - Cloud was sick. He wasn't himself - literally. He was in the middle of a mental breakdown. Aeris was falling for a guy who reminded her of her lover. Is that all really romantic? Is it love I hear in the trees singing this tale? It's not. Cloud cares for Aeris. She's attractive, she is charming and he is her guardian in his mixed up world. Could they have enjoyed some seeding under a Highwind in a world where he wasn't mad and she wasn't mourning? Quite possibly. Aeris is meant to be so charming ALL the heroes love her. So no doubt.

But not in this tale.




Go re-read Maiden. It gives you lots of nuances to Aeris' confusion between her romantic love for Zack, her infatuation for Cloud, her anger at Zack and inability to see how much Zack means to her. This works in tandem with FF7 - she doesn't know Zack's demise, she feels abandoned, and here's this Sub-Zack - or maybe Better-Than-Zack that is alive and well (or so she thinks).

Aeris' love is Zack. Read Maiden, that once holy bible of shipping, read it properly - change the names of Aeris, Cloud, Tifa and Zack and read it without any loaded aspirations or hopes. It's actually a very clear document to who Aeris is. It also makes clear what you don't see in FF7 because the character is unaware of key facts regarding Zack and Cloud.



But she doesn't. Only person who brings out Cloud, is Tifa. Not Aeris. Either way, whoever did, doesn't prove romantic love.

Mothers and families can be vital in helping a child. Doesn't mean incest.

Once again, if you truly want truth, step back. Forget the Western expectation for every aspect of a story to be dotted and crossed and spoonfed. The CloudxTifa thing is evident, but its not pivotal to FF7's story, because well, romance isn't actually that interesting. It's what I love about Japanese storytelling (or at least, some of it, not wanting to generalise), but they don't spoonfeed as we do. Cloud went to Soldier to impress Tifa, he fails, in fact almost comically fails, by failing to save her, their hometown, their families and even his hero. That's mega bad fail. Breakdown fail. He then plays the persona of the Hero he aspired to, unwittingly to his hero's girlfriend! Oh the hilarity! He then fails to save her too! Breakdown time again! In the end, the only one who can break through the mad is the girl he went to impress in the first place. They go off, become a couple, but happiness can't last with that tragedy bag on his back, and his relationship, his friends and his responsibilities fall to the wayside as the guilt and disease take him. He feels so hopeless and useless he can't face anyone, and fears helping anyone (now go look back at the comic tragedy and you can see why, seriously, Frank Spencer has had less catastrophic moments). They all forgive him. They all tell him to move on. He does. And to give everything a happy ending, he sees Zack and Aeris united in death as he's united in life.

Now that story is big, mad and complex. Having to point ot who Cloud loves in that story shouldn't really be a vital point, should it? If he doesn't love Tifa, half the story makes no sense, if Aeris loves Cloud more than Zack, Advent Children loses its happy ending - and in both instances the Way to the Smile novellas are, well you have to say they didn't happen, just to make it so Aeries loves Cloud, and doesn't really like Zack and Cloud loves Aeries, and just puts up with that girl he once wanted to impress. It's mad. Madness! Madness!

You could do a comedy to Cloud's horrific bad luck. It's mind-boggling when you write it out.

I want to have sex with this post...

that is all

 

[Farron]

By showing Cloud was physically attracted to Aerith, I'm showing that it was the beginning of what led Cloud to having romantic feelings for Aerith.

What romantic feelings ? It never mentions that ! All it mentions is that Cloud thinks that Aerith is pretty attractive. That's it. Cloud thinks that Aerith is a attractive woman, nothing about romantic feelings or love.

It was the basis for which these romantic feelings grew.

What are you on about ? Did we play a different version of Final Fantasy VII ? Maybe you got a rough Chinese hack version like the NES version of Final Fantasy VII or something, not the original because i don't know what you're on about.

The version I'm using is the *canon* version.

For CD 1 anything else doesn't count in your eyes and head.

Did u know that when Aeris dies that there's actually 2 more CD's to go !

wow

mindblown !

Therefore, this is the canon version of this scene:
Marlene: "Guess what? Guess what? Aeris was asking me lots of questions. Like what kind of person Cloud is. I bet she likes you, Cloud!"
Cloud: "Let’s hope so."
Marlene: "I won’t tell Tifa."

Meh. Doesn't matter because it's CD 1 Cloud or ZaCloud as some fans call him.

By Cloud agreeing to go on the date shows romantic interest.

Aerith basically pushed him and forced him out the door and again the date wasn't even all that romantic or passionate. Again it was Aeris questioning why Cloud was acting so much like her lover Zack and not really like how Cloud should be acting and ending in Cloud being really confused and Cait Sith's betrayal.

What else could have triggered Cloud into this romantic flashback besides this mysterious woman whose house he was sleeping in?

Again it wasn't really all that romantic. Cloud's Mother mentioned that Cloud should date a older woman to take care of him and then Cloud in a negative attitude saying that he couldn't care less.

To me, this flashback was an obvious juxtaposition of past vs. present: Cloud is remembering a time when he was disinterested in girlfriends, but now with the introduction of Aerith, a women he finds attractive, he might start to feel differently. Do you disagree that that was SE's intent?

Yes I do

Dagger, are you going to admit that the Marlene scene is not optional and proves Cloud does express a romantic interest in Aerith? Even Marlene, a little girl, understands that Cloud was expressing a romantic interest in Aerith because she says, "I won't tell Tifa".

Sorry but no I'm not. That was said and spoken to by ZaCloud so nope. It's not really all that solid when it's not spoken by Cloud's true identity. Maybe if the official Cloud said it, but it's like trying to hold on to water that slipping through your hands. ZaCloud said those things, not the true Cloud at heart.

Sorry BB but no. Though I do admit that I have been proven wrong about it being optional.

Again -- both Cloud and Aerith express romantic interest in each other.

Aerith likes Zack and Cloud likes Tifa so again sorry but no.

Proof of Zerith

She joined the Lifestream, but even then she carries on watching over the planet and Cloud. At all times, her first love Zack is always by her side.

Aerith ACC Dengeki Profile

 

[Dashell]

Sorry but no I'm not. That was said and spoken to by ZaCloud so nope. It's not really all that solid when it's not spoken by Cloud's true identity. Maybe if the official Cloud said it, but it's like trying to hold on to water that slipping through your hands. ZaCloud said those things, not the true Cloud at heart.

I have to disagree with this. I think what Cloud felt for Aerith was real. It's not like as soon as he remembered who he was he was like, "Aerith who?"... no he felt something... and I believe that if he hadn't thought he was someone he wasn't... he STILL would have felt something. Their relationship just would have been different.

 

[BlankBeat]

I haven't even read this thread lately -- but you know what's funny? I listen to the Tifa Theme. It's so beautiful. I love it so much. What's so weird is that I'll even respond to people with the Tifa theme playing in the background.

In all honesty, I'm really a depressed person. So everything negative you have to say, I've already thought of already. <3 Love you all. Peace and love! <3 <3 <3 <3

 

[Farron]

I haven't even read this thread lately -- but you know what's funny? I listen to the Tifa Theme. It's so beautiful. I love it so much. What's so weird is that I'll even respond to people with the Tifa theme playing in the background.

In all honesty, I'm really a depressed person. So everything negative you have to say, I've already thought of already. <3 Love you all. Peace and love! <3 <3 <3 <3

Are you okay BB ?

Oh my god I'm going to stop debating in the LTD because yesterday i made you furious and now i'm making you really depressed ???

 

[Dashell]

I haven't even read this thread lately -- but you know what's funny? I listen to the Tifa Theme. It's so beautiful. I love it so much. What's so weird is that I'll even respond to people with the Tifa theme playing in the background.

In all honesty, I'm really a depressed person. So everything negative you have to say, I've already thought of already. <3 Love you all. Peace and love! <3 <3 <3 <3

wanna cry together? (that's a serious offer BTW)

 

[Tennyo]

In all honesty, I'm really a depressed person. So everything negative you have to say, I've already thought of already. <3 Love you all. Peace and love! <3 <3 <3 <3

If you have issues with depression then why did you decide to enter into a debate such as this? It's exactly this type of situation that you really should avoid.

 

[Geostigma]

If you have issues with depression then why did you decide to enter into a debate such as this? It's exactly this type of situation that you really should avoid.

Especially when you're the type of person who needs to prove there ship is right every day. You shouldnt do that when logic and people who are willing to prove you wrong are readily available to do so

 

[Dashell]

OK, can we stop being dicks now?

 

[Geostigma]

Calm your tits que.

 

[Master Bates]

i just... really want to meet you guys.

and by that i mean let's have an orgy

 

[Akai Hana]

i just... really want to meet you guys.

and by that i mean let's have an orgy

This thread is lonely and deserted without Clerii.. Where are those people?

 

[Dashell]

Calm your tits que.

no u

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

OK, can we stop being dicks now?

Probably not, but this would perhaps be a good time to at least give it a try. And for the record, BlankBeat, I do sympathize with your depression and hope you manage to keep on keeping on.

 

[Dashell]

Keep calm and ship whatever the hell you want

 

[I Am Not Me]

i just... really want to meet you guys.

and by that i mean let's have an orgy

I'm allowed to participate now, right?

I haven't even read this thread lately -- but you know what's funny? I listen to the Tifa Theme. It's so beautiful. I love it so much. What's so weird is that I'll even respond to people with the Tifa theme playing in the background.

In all honesty, I'm really a depressed person. So everything negative you have to say, I've already thought of already. <3 Love you all. Peace and love! <3 <3 <3 <3

No but really, I don't think you should be participating in the LTD if you're a depressed person. This discussion will not help at all and will probably just make things worse. Especially when people are prone to getting frustrated and occasionally being mean penises.

I spend my impressionable teenage years reading and participating in this thread that I'm pretty much becoming immune to its effects. I grow stronger each year, and soon I will be strong enough to prove Clack canon without even writing anything.

Do you want some Clack smut, BB? I can give you Clack smut to cheer you up. Clack is canon and smut of it cheers everyone right up!

If Clack is too canon for you, I can give you some lesser canon Aerti.

 

[BlankBeat]

Um if anything it was Aerith flirting with him. Here is a script excerpt:
Where is Cloud flirting with Aerith? He agreed to be her bodyguard and says so. Not getting any flirty vibes. It is Aerith who mentions the date.

To me, it appeared as though Cloud and Aerith were bantering back and forth in a flirtatious way. Regardless of what you want to call it, Cloud expresses concern for Aerith's safety and brings up the fact that he's her bodyguard. That's showing a lot of concern for the safety of someone he just met.

If we look at what SE says about this scene, they say, "FFVII: Seeing Cloud and Aerith developing their world together before her eyes, she inadvertently lets slip her peevish feelings."

The banter between Cloud and Aerith in the Shinra headquarters is a signal that Cloud and Aerith were, "developing their own world together."

--------------------

His bond with Aeris is special - its key to Cloud as a character. It's not love. You want it to be love, that's the key issue here and you will hunt anything which will justify something that any sensible man will look stunned at.

What Cloud tells Marlene and his actions before and after that admission tell us that his bond with Aerith is romantic. You are also ignoring the quote where SE says Cloud "wavers" between two heroines.

You played Cloud's romantic date? It's not romantic. Have you watched any Japanese films or read the books? Cloud is a typical teen archetype - dragged into romantic subplots against his certainties. That's the comedy, not romance.

...then why does Cloud agree to go on the date when he first crashes down in Aerith's Church? Could it perhaps be related to his attraction to her physical features and personality...?

And again, the one irrefutable fact you sidestep because it destroys the whole debate - Cloud was sick. He wasn't himself - literally.

1. Aerith knew she wasn't dealing with the 'real' Cloud and loved him despite knowing this.

2. It is irrelevant that Cloud was messed up when he was interacting with Aerith because when Cloud became Real!Cloud, he still continued to care for Aerith based on the interactions they had while he was messed up.

Aeris' love is Zack. Read Maiden, that once holy bible of shipping, read it properly - change the names of Aeris, Cloud, Tifa and Zack and read it without any loaded aspirations or hopes. It's actually a very clear document to who Aeris is. It also makes clear what you don't see in FF7 because the character is unaware of key facts regarding Zack and Cloud.

Aerith's love is not Zack. You should re-read these quotes:

&#8220;Although in the beginning Aerith felt close to Cloud is because he behaves like Zack, her interest in Cloud himself grows and she is attracted to him.&#8221; ~page 31, Final Fantasy VII Ultimania Omega, Square Enix

"I, now undoubtedly, love Cloud much more than Zack.&#8221; ~Aerith&#8217;s monologue in Gongaga, Final Fantasy VII Dismantled, Square Enix

--------------------

What romantic feelings ? It never mentions that ! All it mentions is that Cloud thinks that Aerith is pretty attractive. That's it. Cloud thinks that Aerith is a attractive woman, nothing about romantic feelings or love.

So, Cloud hopes Aerith likes him simply because he finds her physically attractive? Is Cloud's physical attraction to Aerith also why he decides to rescue Aerith from the Shinra headquarters right after admitting to Marlene he hopes Aerith likes him? Is that also why SE says Tifa witnesses Cloud and Aerith developing their "own world" together in-front of her eyes?

To think that Cloud would do all of these things for Aerith and SE would say Cloud and Aerith were developing their own "world" together simply because of Cloud's physical attraction to Aerith is utterly ridiculous.

Meh. Doesn't matter because it's CD 1 Cloud or ZaCloud as some fans call him.

"After developing his personality by using Zack's memory as a base, Cloud still maintained the part of coolness even though Zack had cheerful characteristics. The part of Cloud's coolness that keeps him away from the surroundings and the part of his asserting "no interests" all have nothing to do with the influence of Jenova cells. They belong to the real Cloud's personality." ~Final Fantasy VII Ultimania Omega

So although Cloud wasn't completely himself during disc 1, parts of the 'real' Cloud were present during his time with Aerith. It is also stated that the Jenova cells inside Cloud mimicked Tifa's memories of him. Since Tifa's memories were of the 'real' Cloud, Jenova's cells mimicked portions of the 'real Cloud' that fashioned yet another personality for him.

Even after Cloud realizes his past and fully becomes himself, he still carries grief, guilt, and sorrow over Aerith's death. Therefore, if their relationship is somehow null-in-void because Cloud wasn't completely himself during the time they spent together, why does Cloud (after becoming his complete self) harbor such emotion towards Aerith based on the time they shared while he was 'messed up'? If Cloud continues to feel strong emotions towards Aerith after fully becoming himself, it means the time they spent together while he was 'messed up' is relevant and meaningful to the 'real' Cloud.

Aerith was the primary character that was able to bring out the caring side of the 'real' Cloud, despite how messed up he was. In other words, Aerith was able to bring the 'real' Cloud to the surface and have the 'real' Cloud shine through during a time when the 'real' Cloud was buried beneath Jenova's cells and Zack's memories.

It is silly and downright ridiculous to say that because Cloud wasn't fully himself during most of his interaction with Aerith that their relationship is somehow insignificant or 'lesser'. I believe that Cloud not being his complete self makes the case for Cloud x Aerith stronger. It proves that Aerith was the only character that was able to have the 'real' Cloud shine through and show us that Cloud not only cares for other people, but that he can, yes, even laugh.

Again it wasn't really all that romantic. Cloud's Mother mentioned that Cloud should date a older woman to take care of him and then Cloud in a negative attitude saying that he couldn't care less.

Obviously Cloud&#8217;s Mom saying this means nothing. But what was SE&#8217;s intent for including this? Why would they choose for Cloud to have this flashback while he was sleeping in Aerith&#8217;s house? Just to provide some context: Cloud had just met Aerith. He agreed to be her bodyguard for the price of one date. He had just spent time laughing with her. Protecting her. Then while Cloud is sleeping in her house, SE decides to throw in this flashback where Cloud&#8217;s Mother talks about girlfriends and dating someone older. Then right after this flashback is over, you see Cloud in his room and Aerith in her room. Clearly this was meant to set these two up as romantic love interests.

Aerith likes Zack and Cloud likes Tifa so again sorry but no.

Proof of Zerith

She joined the Lifestream, but even then she carries on watching over the planet and Cloud. At all times, her first love Zack is always by her side.

Aerith ACC Dengeki Profile

Re-post:
Aerith's love is not Zack. You should re-read these quotes:

&#8220;Although in the beginning Aerith felt close to Cloud is because he behaves like Zack, her interest in Cloud himself grows and she is attracted to him.&#8221; ~page 31, Final Fantasy VII Ultimania Omega, Square Enix

"I, now undoubtedly, love Cloud much more than Zack.&#8221; ~Aerith&#8217;s monologue in Gongaga, Final Fantasy VII Dismantled, Square Enix

 

[Ryushikaze]

Aerith's love IS Zack.

Aerith's love is also Cloud.

You're arguing Cloud can love both women, why is it so hard to accept Aerith loves both of the men she canonically loves?

 

[BlankBeat]

Aerith's love IS Zack.

Aerith's love is also Cloud.

You're arguing Cloud can love both women, why is it so hard to accept Aerith loves both of the men she canonically loves?

I'd say Aerith loved Zack in the past, but that her love for him did not continue. But I'm A-OK with admitting Aerith love(s) both Cloud and Zack at the same time.

But the quote does say Aerith loves Cloud MORE than Zack.

 

[BlankBeat]

Question. What was SE's intent for doing these three things with three different characters all in a-row:

1. Cloud tells Marlene he hopes Aerith likes him (Marlene says, "I won't tell Tifa.") --->
2. Barret observes that Aerith seems to be the first person Cloud is willing to fight for besides himself --->
3. Cloud and Aerith have a conversation in the Shinra jail cell where Cloud brings up his promised date with Aerith, which makes Tifa jealous because it seems that Cloud and Aerith were "developing their own world together"

...were these three things not a clear signal from SE that Cloud and Aerith's relationship seems to be special and beyond that of just a mere friendship...?

 

[I Am Not Me]

1. Cloud tells Marlene he hopes Aerith likes him (Marlene says, "I won't tell Tifa.")

It means Marlene knows Tifa likes Cloud, and that Cloud is showing interest in another woman, meaning it might make Tifa jealous or hurt her feelings. So?

If we're trying to get from this that Marlene is a clever little girl, then she definitely is. She's pretty sharp.

2. Barret observes that Aerith seems to be the first person Cloud is willing to fight for besides himself --->

Barret wasn't present for Tifa's rescue from Don Corneo's mansion. He didn't know Cloud was willing to dress up as a woman to save her. Cloud wouldn't tell him that either. So Barret really isn't a reliable source for that because he only observed one side of it.

I do think it's clever that SE had Barret say this, considering they wanted to make Aerith a false romantic lead until the time of her death.

3. Cloud and Aerith have a conversation in the Shinra jail cell where Cloud brings up his promised date with Aerith, which makes Tifa jealous because it seems that Cloud and Aerith were "developing their own world together"

It was Aerith who brings it up, not Cloud.

The only thing Cloud brings up is being her bodyguard. Are we playing different versions of the game because I explicitly remember it like this.

And of course Tifa would be jealous of anything developing between Cloud and Aerith, she likes Cloud.

And why are you only talking about events from the first disc? Why not the rest of the game and compilation too? Surely if SE intended to show Cloud loving Aerith beyond her death they would show it clearly in Advent Children Complete, Dirge of Cerberus, and the rest of the novellas. By clearly, I mean without having to assume anything like his guilt means true love or whatever.

 

[BlankBeat]

It means Marlene knows Tifa likes Cloud, and that Cloud is showing interest in another woman, meaning it might make Tifa jealous or hurt her feelings. So?

Yes. Cloud is expressing ROMANTIC interest in another woman, Aerith. Therefore, when people say Cloud never expressed romantic interest in Aerith they are either lying or do not know the scene with Marlene has a canon version.

When you look at everything together (Cloud's physical attraction to Aerith, the fact that he laughs for the first and only time during the game with Aerith, the fact that he agrees to go on a date with Aerith, the fact that Cloud is willing to risk his life to save Aerith) in combination with what Cloud tells Marlene, it is undeniable that eventually Cloud loved Aerith romantically. Cloud's immense sadness over her death is linked, at least partially, to his romantic attraction to her.

If we're trying to get from this that Marlene is a clever little girl, then she definitely is. She's pretty sharp.

Marlene is sharp. She see's what many Cloti's continue to deny -- Cloud had romantic feelings for Aerith.

Barret wasn't present for Tifa's rescue from Don Corneo's mansion. He didn't know Cloud was willing to dress up as a woman to save her. Cloud wouldn't tell him that either. So Barret really isn't a reliable source for that because he only observed one side of it.

...but Cloud rescuing Tifa from Don Corneo's mansion is hardly comparable to Cloud deciding to infiltrate the Shinra Headquarters to save Aerith. Cloud could have wanted to let Tifa know he was alive because the last time he saw her was when he fell from the reactor. Cloud could have wanted to save Tifa because she was apart of AVALANCHE, the company he was working for. Cloud could have wanted to save Tifa simply because she was his childhood friend.

But because SE had Cloud tell Marlene he hoped Aerith liked him prior to Cloud's desire to save Aerith, it is clear that SE was telling us that Cloud's desire to save a girl he just met was related (at least partially) to his romantic feelings for her.

And I don't really care if Barret knew about Tifa's rescue or not. I'm looking at SE's intent. SE decided to have Barret make this observation for a reason. The gamer and SE knew about Tifa's rescue, yet they still wanted us to hear Barret's observation. By SE including this observation, it was clearly meant to highlight Cloud and Aerith's, "special bond". A bond that Tifa expresses jealously about shortly after Barret's observation.

It was Aerith who brings it up, not Cloud.

The only thing Cloud brings up is being her bodyguard. Are we playing different versions of the game because I explicitly remember it like this.

You're right. I was mistaken when I said Cloud brought up the date.

And of course Tifa would be jealous of anything developing between Cloud and Aerith, she likes Cloud.

And the reason Tifa was jealous was because the thing that was developing between Cloud and Aerith was romance.

And why are you only talking about events from the first disc? Why not the rest of the game and compilation too? Surely if SE intended to show Cloud loving Aerith beyond her death they would show it clearly in Advent Children Complete, Dirge of Cerberus, and the rest of the novellas. By clearly, I mean without having to assume anything like his guilt means true love or whatever.

I'm only focusing on disc 1 because that's when Cloud and Aerith interacted while she was alive. In order to prove there was romance between them, I have to focus on disc 1.

Also -- I have discussed the rest of the game and the compilation. But right now, I'm focusing on the proof that Cloud liked Aerith romantically.

Oh, and it's funny that you say SE would have CLEARLY shown us in AC, Dirge of Cerberus, etc. that Cloud loved Aerith beyond death. But why didn't they clearly show us that Cloud and Tifa were in a romantic relationship? There is not a single scene of explicit romantic interaction between Cloud and Tifa in CoT, AC, or Dirge of Cerberus. In fact, both AC and Dirge of Cerberus tell us that Cloud and Tifa's relationship is anything but romantic.

 

[OniRaitei]

...but Cloud rescuing Tifa from Don Corneo's mansion is hardly comparable to Cloud deciding to infiltrate the Shinra Headquarters to save Aerith. Cloud could have wanted to let Tifa know he was alive because the last time he saw her was when he fell from the reactor. Cloud could have wanted to save Tifa because she was apart of AVALANCHE, the company he was working for. Cloud could have wanted to save Tifa simply because she was his childhood friend.

Seriously, stop with this crap (in particular). Its offensive to anyone with good sense. You want us to take your arguments about Aerith and Cloud's dubious romance seriously, but you carry on with this weak reasoning that is an obvious attempt to diminish Cloud's view of Tifa and make it seem like he doesn't care about her in order to strengthen your own position.

Before Cloud fell into the slums:

Tifa: Cloud!
Please don't die! You can't die!
There's still so much I want to tell you!

Cloud: I know, Tifa......

This exchange doesn't say much, but it is far more romantic than any of your arguments for Cloud and Aerith romance, especially when you know that when it comes time to "tell," Tifa and Cloud feel the same way.

In your scenarios, Cloud would go through all the humiliating trouble of rescuing Tifa just to be like, "Hey, um, so like, I'm alive and stuff. Was there something you wanted to tell me?...Okay, I've gotta go, I met this new chick who is taking me on a date. She made me chuckle, and you know what that means!" wtf

At least you dropped that ridiculous bit about Cloud rescuing Tifa out of pure greed. I mean, really, come on.

 

[Danseru-kun]

...but Cloud rescuing Tifa from Don Corneo's mansion is hardly comparable to Cloud deciding to infiltrate the Shinra Headquarters to save Aerith. Cloud could have wanted to let Tifa know he was alive because the last time he saw her was when he fell from the reactor. Cloud could have wanted to save Tifa because she was apart of AVALANCHE, the company he was working for. Cloud could have wanted to save Tifa simply because she was his childhood friend.

Why is it so difficult for you to accept that Cloud at least cared for Tifa?

And please, stop comparing the Shinra HQ rescue to Don Corneo to prove whose woman is more important. Quick reminder that Tifa did not need any invitation from Cloud to rescue Aerith, she's even the one who tried to reach Aerith when Tseng is taking her away. Barret's motivation is clear (Marlene) but Tifa is willing to risk her life for someone she barely knew. The same way Aerith felt the need to rescue Tifa from Don without even knowing her. Stop diminishing the characters to prove a point that is not helpful for your case. They cared for each other, romantically or not. Aerith and Tifa are willing to rescue each other the same way as Cloud is willing to rescue them.

 

[BlankBeat]

Seriously, stop with this crap (in particular). Its offensive to anyone with good sense. You want us to take your arguments about Aerith and Cloud's dubious romance seriously, but you carry on with this weak reasoning that is an obvious attempt to diminish Cloud's view of Tifa and make it seem like he doesn't care about her in order to strengthen your own position.

Before Cloud fell into the slums:

Tifa: Cloud!
Please don't die! You can't die!
There's still so much I want to tell you!

Cloud: I know, Tifa......

This exchange doesn't say much, but it is far more romantic than any of your arguments for Cloud and Aerith romance, especially when you know that when it comes time to "tell," Tifa and Cloud feel the same way.

In your scenarios, Cloud would go through all the humiliating trouble of rescuing Tifa just to be like, "Hey, um, so like, I'm alive and stuff. Was there something you wanted to tell me?...Okay, I've gotta go, I met this new chick who is taking me on a date. She made me chuckle, and you know what that means!" wtf

At least you dropped that ridiculous bit about Cloud rescuing Tifa out of pure greed. I mean, really, come on.

1. Some people on this forum are trying to diminish Barret's observation by saying he didn't know Cloud rescued Tifa. But SE knew Cloud rescued Tifa. So why would SE have Barret make this observation if it wasn't relevant?

2. SE is the one that specifies that the only time Cloud laughs is with Aerith. You are trying to diminish the importance of this. The fact that only Aerith was able to evoke laughter (ie: a physical manifestation of happiness) from Cloud, is *VERY* significant and shows their "special bond".