The Love Triangle Debate thread of KNEEL BEFORE ZOD OR SUFFER HIS WRATH (ignore the opening posts at your peril) (Round 6)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Shadowfox

You look like you need a monkey
At least this current discussion has gotten me to look back on the FF7 game script.

From what I've seen in the game dialogues, the de-douching of Cloud's behaviour began even before he falls into the church. We even have Wedge remarking on how he's starting to see Cloud differently from as early as the first scene in the Seventh Heaven.

(http://www.rpgamer.com/games/ff/ff7/text/info/ff7disc1.txt)
Wedge
"...Cloud."
"You say you don't care, but you came to talk to me."
"Cloud.... you just want friends."
"Isn't that right?"

Characters' observations of Cloud's behaviour during the early part of the game is to set up the premise that Cloud is not who he says he is. That there's more to Cloud than the cold mercenary front he puts up. Barret's remark about Cloud's behaviour later in the Shinra building is more a contribution to Cloud's own personal story arc than it is a comment on how romantic Cloud feels towards Aerith.
 

Lex

Administrator
Ohai guys

So I've been playing XIV a lot, and in the chat settings there are developer examples for text settings. There are some nice little VII references in there. Remember this isn't fan stuff :D.

I'll just leave this here

null_zps2460f51b.jpg


EDIT: Mei, this one's for you

null_zps4c5ef8a4.jpg
 
Last edited:

BlankBeat

Pro Adventurer
Evidence from SE that Cloud had a romantic bond with Aerith:

1.
“After solving the puzzle about Cait Sith’s replaceable body, he tells one last fortune of Cloud and Aerith’s affinity. Cait Sith’s lines, which seem to expect Cloud and Aerith’s wedding, now makes it more painful.” ~Final Fantasy VII Dismantled, Square Enix

If Cloud Strife did not love Aerith, how could a wedding prediction become "more painful" after her death? The only way a wedding prediction would become "more painful" is if there was a basis for which a wedding could happen (ie: mutual romance).

2.
"And having two heroines, Aerith and Tifa, and having the hero waver between them, at the time that was something new.” ~Interview with the creators, pg. 8-13, 10th Anniversary Ultimania

This quote tells us that Cloud wavered between Aerith and Tifa -- which means that his relationship with both women was more than a friendship. The only way Cloud could "waver" to Aerith is if he was romantically interested in her.

3.
"The thing which she is unable to hide in her irritation towards Cloud is the fact that he isn’t merely dragging the past around, but because that reason might perhaps be related to Aerith.

FFVII: Seeing Cloud and Aerith developing their world together before her eyes, she inadvertently lets slip her peevish feelings.

AC: Upon knowing that Cloud had been residing in Aerith’s church after leaving the place they had been living in together, her expression becomes complex.”
~Tifa’s character profile, 10th Anniversary Ultimania

SE tells us that Tifa is jealous of Cloud's relationship with Aerith in both Final Fantasy VII and Advent Children. Given the context with which this information is presented, Tifa's jealously stems from the fact that her and Cloud's romantic bond is threatened by Cloud's romantic bond with Aerith.

4.
"Both of them share feelings for Cloud — Tifa was close to Aerith, who can also be called a love rival. With that point in mind, they were also good friends. Nevertheless, it is not hard to imagine that she carries complex feelings as a woman toward Aerith, who had built up a special bond with Cloud that was different from Tifa's. Tifa's complicated feelings continue even in AC, two years after Aerith had departed the world." ~Final Fantasy 10th Anniversary Ultimania

SE provides us the context for which the information is to be viewed: Aerith and Tifa are "love rivals". When SE says that Aerith had, "built up a special bond with Cloud that was different from Tifa's," it's not saying that one relationship is romantic and the other isn't. It's saying that although both relationships are romantic, Tifa wishes she had a romantic bond with Cloud that was similar to his romantic bond with Aerith. I'd imagine this means Tifa wishes her romantic relationship with Cloud was more flirtatious, open, and forward.

5.
"#111: The Planet’s largest amusement park is run by Dio. Cloud and company visit this place many times in their battle. They meet Cait Sith here. A promised date that ends in a magical night. In the city of desire that floats above the sands, the light memory of the two people is asleep even now…Aerith: “I think I must have seen him again, in you… But you’re different. Things are different… No, Cloud… I’m searching for you…” ~Final Fantasy Art Collection

“In Aerith’s case, if you play the game normally,the partner that generally comes will be Aerith.” ~Final Fantasy VII Dismantled

“Oh, Cloud…I enjoyed our date at the Gold Saucer. The view from the gondola that night was really beautiful. I’ll never forget it. I’ll never forget you, Cloud…” ~Aerith, Final Fantasy VII Dismantled, Square Enix

Dates are inherently romantic. Cloud agrees to go on a date with Aerith.

6.
“Marlene is a sharp girl - Even though she’s only 4 years old, Marlene is perceptive and well attuned to the woman mind. The scene where she ascertains that Aerith has favor for Cloud and tells him so, then says “I won’t tell Tifa!” demonstrates this grownup behavior.” ~Final Fantasy VII, 25th Anniversary Ultimania

Therefore, this is the canon version of this scene:
Marlene: "Guess what? Guess what? Aeris was asking me lots of questions. Like what kind of person Cloud is. I bet she likes you, Cloud!"
Cloud: "Let’s hope so."
Marlene: "I won’t tell Tifa."

Cloud saying, "Let's hope so" tells us that Cloud would like for there to be a mutual romantic relationship between him and Aerith.

7.
"She's a girl with impressive eyes. She's around my age, or elder by one or two years. But the innocent radiance in her eyes simply makes her suddenly look younger.
Aerith: "Excuse me, what happened?"
She asked me the question, and then I bought a flower from her, which is rare in Midgar.
Maybe she's pleased that the flower was sold, because the worried look on her face had vanished. If this smile costs only one gil, it is a good purchase."
~Final Fantasy Dismantled

"After the explosion of First Reactor, Cloud met Aerith while running away alone. Cloud left the place, remembering the mysterious feeling he had for Aerith from the small conversation. He then reunited with AVALANCHE safely, and left for their base…" ~Final Fantasy VII, Story Playback, Page 111

Cloud's initial encounter with Aerith tells us that he is attracted to her physical appearance. This begins what is sure to follow -- Cloud's romantic feelings for Aerith.

Honorable mentions that highlight Cloud and Aerith's "special bond," but do not necessarily prove Cloud had romantic feelings for Aerith:

1. Cloud to Aerith in Cosmo Canyon: “But I’m......we’re here for you, right?”

2. Cloud and Aerith share their first of two dates at Green Park in the Sector 6 Slum: “Date in the Park: In Scene 04-10, Zack and Aerith have a date in Green Park in the sector 6 slum. An identical situation is seen in “FFVII” as well, which features a scene of Cloud and Aerith on a date in the same park.” ~CC Ultimania, Square Enix

3. Cloud laughs for only Aerith in Final Fantasy VII.

4. Barret observes that Aerith is the first person Cloud is willing to fight for besides himself.

Debatable points:

1. Cloud was triggered into a romantic flashback in Aerith's house after meeting her. Was this a clue from SE that with the introduction of Aerith, Cloud could be changing his mind about the idea of having an older girlfriend? What else could have triggered Cloud into this flashback aside from Cloud's romantic infatuation with Aerith?

2. "Each carries their own feelings and love for Aerith. In this story, Cloud also carries his undying feeling for Aerith even to this very day…” ~Nomura, Square Enix

When *undying* is applied to a feeling or emotion that someone has, it is eternal and forever. So although you can make the argument that *undying* when applied to a fictional creature doesn’t mean eternal and forever, when the word “undying” is applied to a human emotion or feeling, it *IS* eternal and forever. Therefore, it does not make sense that Nomura would be referring to Cloud’s guilt as *undying* when the entire point of Advent Children is to rid Cloud of his guilt.

3. "There’s no relationship from FFVII to the Kingdom Hearts stories. I consider them separate stories. But if you play Kingdom Hearts, toward the end, some of the questions about the relationship between Cloud and Aeris in Final Fantasy VII might be answered.” ~Nomura, Square Enix

Nomura specifically says that although the two universes of Kingdom Hearts and FFVII are separate, the Kingdom Hearts universe might help answer questions about the relationship between Cloud and Aerith as it pertains to Final Fantasy VII’s universe. So what does this ending tell us about Cloud and Aerith's relationship?

4. SE views Cloud and Aerith as a romantic couple in Final Fantasy VII because they give them romantic cameos in Final Fantasy IX and Final Fantasy Airborne Brigade.

5. Final Fantasy Dissidia: At the end of Dissidia, Cloud is seen entering a flower field. This flower field is eerily similar to the flower fields Aerith has appeared in, and the flower field shown during the ending credits of Advent Children. Cloud is also holding Aerith’s Holy materia. Before this takes place, it is stated by Zidane that each character is, “…returning to where we’re supposed to be.” Cloud is supposed to be with Aerith, which is why he returns to a flower field. Interestingly, Squall of Final Fantasy VIII is seen leaving when a white feather falls from the sky. This feather represents Rinoa. The parallels between Cloud x Aerith and Squall x Rinoa are obvious. During the game Cloud also says, “The one I really want to meet is…” And although he doesn’t finish his sentence, given the ending scene of Dissidia and the ending of Final Fantasy VII, it is clear who Cloud has a desire to meet in the

6. "It was the sound of Cloud’s heart cracking. It was the cry of his heart that could never be healed of the grief he had towards Aerith’s death, the blame towards himself and the hatred he had for Sephiroth…There was nothing she could do about Cloud’s suffering and the pain ached in her heart.” ~Maiden of the Planet, Square Enix

Cloud’s heart cracked when Aerith died.

7. “Cloud was her friend, her *koibito* (lover in Japanese) - a symbol of what was important to her, and someone to be protected.” ~Case of Lifestream: White, Square Enix

8. SE pays homage to the hand reach scene in Advent Children, a scene where Cloud expresses a desire to meet Aerith in the Promised Land (ie: his place of supreme happiness). Cloud is also shown riding around flower fields at the end of AC/C -- flower fields that are expliclity stated to represent Aerith. Is Cloud continuing his search to be with Aerith in the Promised Land?
 
Last edited:

BlankBeat

Pro Adventurer
"Evidence" and "proof" aren't necessarily the same thing. My point, though, is you agree that there's stuff there that would make a reasonable person think "Hey, that sounds like a couple" and that people aren't just pulling the notion out of their asses. =P That's all I'm saying.



Yes, Ryu does tend to downplay a number of those things, I agree. And he'll probably keep doing it.

For the record, I agree with you about all of those points, though I do still want to point out that Tifa's insecurities are meant to say more about her than anyone else. You don't need her insecurities in order to pick up on Cloud having a growing attraction to Aerith. That's already established by other things. Tifa's insecurities are just telling you something about Tifa, not giving you new information about Cloud.

You don't need Tifa to be insecure *and* Cloud to be interested in Aerith *and* for Cloud not to be interested in Tifa in order for Cloud to have feelings for Aerith; you just need him to have feelings for Aerith. Understand what I mean?

Tifa's "peevish feelings" are telling you something about how Tifa feels, not how Cloud feels. Yes, she's observing something that's really there. She's not imagining it. Cloud and Aerith are actually attracted to one another. They get along smashingly. They quickly form a powerful bond and it keeps growing throughout Disc 1.

Aerith can be forward about her attraction to Cloud in a way that the more shy Tifa cannot, and, thus, Tifa's feeling like she hasn't got a shot in hell. That doesn't actually mean she doesn't have a shot in hell. It just means she thinks she doesn't.

Again, this is telling you something about Tifa, not Cloud.

I guess my question is why respond to someone downplaying Cloud's attraction to/feelings for Aerith with downplaying of his feelings for Tifa? You don't need to do that. Really, it only hurts your point and makes this whole thing go off on a thousand unnecessary tangents that ultimately run in circles and derail you and everyone else from the main topic you wanted to discuss (Cloud's feelings for Aerith).

It doesn't help anyone's arguments about Cloud's feelings for Tifa to downplay what he felt for Aerith, and the opposite is also true. Just don't do that. All you need to prove is that Cloud had feelings for Aerith, and you can do that regardless of what he feels for Tifa, regardless of whether he and Tifa are an established couple in Advent Children, and regardless of whether Cloud and Tifa live out the rest of their days together.

None of that affects whether Cloud had feelings for Aerith. None of it. You can have romantic feelings for more than one person. You can even be in love with more than one person. I am. I'm in love with both my wife and my girlfriend, and soon I'll be living with both of them. It's not like I have a finite amount of love to give and that as my love for my girlfriend grew my love for my wife diminished (though she did wrestle with some insecurities about this herself for a while).

Granted, I don't want the complexities that trying to insert a third wife into the mix would require, so I'm just going to stick with two. =P

Anyway, look -- if it will make you feel any better, as Emperor of the Clotis, I declare all the observations BlankBeat made about Cloud's feelings for Aerith in the quoted passage above to be valid.! Now, let peace reign throughout the land! =P



Like I said with the thing about Tifa's insecurities, you don't need Barret's observation to get that about Cloud and Aerith's bond. Barret's observation isn't giving us new information about Cloud. It's giving us new information about Barret -- namely, that he realizes he was wrong about Cloud.

Cloud hasn't changed. Barret's perception of Cloud has changed. Remember, Cloud stuck around for the second bombing mission because of his promise to Tifa -- a conversation that Barret missed. Barret just walked into the room in time for Cloud to cover up his real reason for sticking around by demanding more money. What had actually been a tender expression on Cloud's part only ended up looking like assholery to Barret, who didn't know Cloud's real reason for staying.

Barret didn't know that Cloud was doing something for someone else there. Likewise with Cloud's determination to rescue Tifa in Wall Market, even if it meant he had to do something humiliating. And likewise with his concern for Jessie, Biggs, Wedge and Barret himself -- as well as the rest of the people of Sector 7. Most all of which involved dialogue and behavior Barret missed.

Cloud's already exhibited to us, the audience, that he cares about people other than himself plenty by this point. Barret's observation isn't telling us anything new about him. It's telling us something new about Barret: he recognizes that he was wrong about Cloud.

Cloud is a dick at the beginning of the game, yes, but he's not a complete dick. He wouldn't have left Aerith to the Turks if he couldn't get something out of her, but he was more than happy to get what he could in exchange for his help. Similarly, he wouldn't have abandoned Tifa once he remembered the promise, but he was more than happy to get what he could out of that situation as well.

What Barret ultimately observes and comments on is the side of Cloud that he's been hiding from him up to that point. We already know that Cloud isn't quite as big an asshole as he makes himself appear to be. Barret hadn't realized that yet.



No.



It's irrelevant up to a point. When it comes to his feelings for Tifa, you do have to remember that he hasn't recovered those memories yet. He didn't even remember the promise until she mentioned it, nor the "fact" that he was a SOLDIER 1st Class until Aerith asked him.

But, yes, in terms of the bonds he forms with people during Disc 1, Jenova is irrelevant, I agree.



Thank you for discussing this with me as you did here, by the way. I feel like this is the first time we had an actual conversation.
I posted my last post before I read your response. All-in-all, I agree with you. That's why I don't understand why this website claims Cloti is canon. So I look forward to reading your LTD post in the near future.

And I'd just like to make this clear: I understand I don't need to downplay Cloud and Tifa's relationship in AC to build up Clerith. But I honestly do not see any firm proof of a romantic relationship existing between Cloud and Tifa in CoT or AC. Granted, I understand *WHY* people think there is a romantic relationship between them. But that's only if you look at it on the surface: they are in a family together and live together. But when you dig a little deeper, the situation becomes much more complicated and doesn't really resemble anything like a romantic relationship, IMO. I'm still waiting for that kiss, or marriage, or romantic embrace, or an, "I love you"...ANYTHING that remotely resembles what romantic couples do when they are in love.

But arguing about if Cloud and Tifa are in a relationship in AC is really beside the point because Cloud is shown to have romantic feelings for both Aerith and Tifa. Therefore, it doesn't matter who Cloud ends up in a relationship with. And for obvious reasons, it can't be Aerith. That's why I believe when Nojima says that things might have gone better with Aerith, it *DOES* suggest to me that things didn't go very well between Cloud and Tifa and that Cloud and Aerith may have been a better match had she lived. It makes me think, "hmmm, Cloud and Aerith seemed to be getting along famously during disc 1...so if she had lived, I bet things would have gone better between them". That's just one of the reasons I support the Clerith ship -- I think Cloud and Aerith are more compatible. That's not to say Tifa is a bad person (I actually love her character). But if you want to ask me who I think would be a better match for Cloud in particular, I'd have to say Aerith hands down. Nojima seems to suggest he agrees with that assessment, too. Plus, judging by how Cloud and Aerith interacted vs. how Cloud and Tifa interacted, there really shouldn't be any question of which couple is more compatible.

But again -- that is all beside the point. Cloud loved both women. And even though Cloud and Aerith never *EXPRESSED* mutual feelings, they still *HAD* mutual feelings. That's part of the reason Cait Sith's prediction becomes "more painful" after Aerith death -- they were never able to express these mutual feelings to each other and turn them into a marriage.

The question isn't who Cloud ended up with, nor which couple expressed mutual feelings. And since it is established that Cloud had romantic feelings for both women, why can't this website say that both pairings are canon?
 
Last edited:

Lex

Administrator
I'm going to do a very frowned-upon thing and repost my own post here because it's already been buried (and I don't want anyone to miss it):

Ohai guys

So I've been playing XIV a lot, and in the chat settings there are developer examples for text settings. There are some nice little VII references in there. Remember this isn't fan stuff :D.

I'll just leave this here

null_zps2460f51b.jpg


EDIT: Mei, this one's for you

null_zps4c5ef8a4.jpg

They're all from Cloud, but some of them don't reference VII (i.e. Cloud target the Amal'jaa Vinger etc). There is one that says:

<Cloud Strife> Wallows in self-pity... :D
 

Gym Leader Devil

True Master of the Dark-type (suck it Piers)
AKA
So many names
We are all sick, sick people to still be doing this. So, as long as we all get padded rooms together, I'll just say...

Then we have a difference of opinion.

If only we could just leave it at that.

There were two things going on simultaneously:
1. Barret's shifting view of Cloud
2. Cloud and Aerith forming a special bond

Correlation does not equal causation. Make a compelling argument as to why this scenario IS causation, preferably without using the words "I believe," "in my opinion," or "its is clear."

I believe SE was trying to kill two birds with one stone -- show that Barret was starting to think differently about Cloud while also showing that this change in Cloud is associated with the woman he is forming a special bond with.

Of course you do. Anything that you can twist to fit your happy little shipping tainted view of things, you'll believe it.
 

Danseru-kun

Pro Adventurer
We're back to Cloud's reaction on Aerith's death and Cait Sith's wedding prediction again? Dig deeper around a hundred pages ago and you can copy paste what you wrote there. Will just be sitting back and relax :monster:
 

BlankBeat

Pro Adventurer
We're back to Cloud's reaction on Aerith's death and Cait Sith's wedding prediction again? Dig deeper around a hundred pages ago and you can copy paste what you wrote there. Will just be sitting back and relax :monster:
How could a wedding prediction become "more painful" if Cloud never had romantic feelings for Aerith?

If Cloud never had romantic feelings for Aerith, a marriage would have *NEVER* been possible between Cloud and Aerith. Therefore, it doesn't make sense that this prediction would become "more painful" after Aerith's demise *UNLESS* there was a possibility, based on mutual romantic attraction, for a marriage between Cloud and Aerith.
 

Lex

Administrator
I know I mean

why would they put that there otherwise

It couldn't just be a fun little nod to the game, because absolutely everything needs to revolve around the love triangle :desu:
 

BlankBeat

Pro Adventurer
I know I mean

why would they put that there otherwise

It couldn't just be a fun little nod to the game, because absolutely everything needs to revolve around the love triangle :desu:

Danseru-kun said:
Yeah, look at the intention of SE there.
Mock me all you want...but...

No one has yet to answer my question: how could a wedding prediction become "MORE PAINFUL" after Aerith's death if Cloud never had romantic feelings for Aerith in the first place?

If Cloud never had romantic feelings for Aerith in the first place, a marriage would have never been possible. Therefore, it wouldn't make sense that the prediction would become "more painful" after Aerith's death *UNLESS* Cloud and Aerith had a mutual romantic attraction that was cut short by Sephiroth.
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
I know I mean

why would they put that there otherwise

It couldn't just be a fun little nod to the game, because absolutely everything needs to revolve around the love triangle :desu:

So... can you explain what exactly that picture is showing?... I don't quite get it
 

Obsidian Fire

Ahk Morn!
AKA
The Engineer
Honest question BlankBeat: When you say that the Cloud/Tifa relationship isn't romantic, are you comparing it to the Western Action/Romance Literature/Media's portrayal of romance or the Japanese Action/Romance Literature/Media's portrayal of romance?

BlankBeat said:
The question isn't who Cloud ended up with, nor which couple expressed mutual feelings. And since it is established that Cloud had romantic feelings for both women, why can't this website say that both pairings are canon?
Probably because SE has said in numerous locations the Cloud/Tifa romantic relationship is canon.
 

BlankBeat

Pro Adventurer
Honest question BlankBeat: When you say that the Cloud/Tifa relationship isn't romantic, are you comparing it to the Western Action/Romance Literature/Media's portrayal of romance or the Japanese Action/Romance Literature/Media's portrayal of romance?

Probably because SE has said in numerous locations the Cloud/Tifa romantic relationship is canon.
I'm comparing Cloud and Tifa's relationship to how SE has portrayed other main FF couples.

I'm not making the claim that Cloud and Aerith are in a committed relationship, so the burden of proof is on C/T supporters to prove that the mutual feelings they expressed turned into a romantic relationship.

But just to reiterate:

Expressing mutual feelings =/= romantic relationship exists.

And when mutual feelings *DO* lead to a romantic relationship, it doesn't mean the relationship lasts forever.
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
Cloud is complimenting Tifa's shirt, but his eyes are looking down. Go figure :cloudball:

ROFL

I get that but I don't understand what the picture is of... what is the screen showing? What is this chat setting? (If it's really complicated it's fine, I'm just trying to figure out why it has FFVII stuff in there)
 

eleamaya

Pro Adventurer
I just wanna ask to BB. is there any quote showing Cloud and Aerith's reciprocal feeling one another like these?

Zack and Aerith

  • “CC” shows her meeting and relationship with Zack, and the budding love between them. However, fate would tear the couple apart. (Aerith’s Dengeki Profile)
  • At that chosen day, she accidentally met Zack, SOLDIER 1st Class, and they were attracted to each other. (Aerith’s Profile FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania)
  • Zack and Aerith meet by chance in a church in the Slums. They become intimate with each other. (FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania Compilation Timeline)
  • The destined encounter with Zack makes them becomes the irreplaceable existence to each other. (Aerith’s profile, FF VII CC Ultimania)
Cloud and Tifa

  • “Cloud and Tifa, who remain, reveal their feelings for each other together.” (FFVII Ultimania Omega, pg. 198; story summary)
  • She ventured into Lifestream together with Cloud. Amidst the course of him trying to ascertain his memories, they became aware of the thoughts/feelings which each other was holding. (FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania Tifa Lockhart Character Profile p 42-47)
  • In FF7, Tifa is the only one who knows Cloud’s childhood, and furthermore, she holds the key to people involved in the story of Nibelheim’s burning down, which is also depicted in CC. She and Cloud came to realize their feelings for each other in the end of the story, and live together in AC and DC.(CC Ultimania, Tifa Lockhart Profile)
  • For many years, Cloud and Tifa have been holding favor for one another. At last facing the impending final battle with Sephiroth, they confirm together their feelings of desire toward partnership. (Tifa’s Profile, FF 25th Memorial Ultimania)
NOTE: 3 of 4 quotes come from the girl’s profile and one quote is from story timeline/summary. Coincidence or intended?

I know you would say Zerith is over that the quote tells about the past and Cloti expressing mutual feeling is not the same as current romantic relationship shown in CoT/ACC. But from the quotes above, those are what make both couples are simply and clearly legit canon without even using depth thought of observing. So if there was no C/A quote about this reciprocal romantic feeling ("between them, each other, one another"), all you say that Cloud loved Aerith romantically back is just assumption and interpretation you want it to be from his action and his profile then bring it as your proofs.

It there is any, that's good that all the three are canons and let's make foursome!!! (Clack and Aerith would join too)

@Danseru: I know where you find it LOL. And look, their outfit in Brigade is even not AU!!!
 
Last edited:

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
I posted my last post before I read your response.

I initially took it as a response to my post since I had spoken about focusing on building your case for Cloud's feelings for Aerith. Amusing timing.

Blank said:
All-in-all, I agree with you. That's why I don't understand why this website claims Cloti is canon. So I look forward to reading your LTD post in the near future.

Thank you. It will hopefully be in the next month or so, but I'm allowing myself as long as until Christmas.

Blank said:
I'm still waiting for that kiss, or marriage, or romantic embrace, or an, "I love you"...ANYTHING that remotely resembles what romantic couples do when they are in love.

To be fair, that's not even 1% of what couples living together actually do. I mean, yeah, my wife and I say "I love you" at some point every day, but it's usually on our way out the door to go to work. There's days that there may not be a kiss or a hug. We don't even sit on the same piece of furniture with one another most of the time. :monster:

Were you to just drop in on us through a magical window in the ceiling and look for overtly romantic shit, you'd probably think we weren't in love.

Blank said:
But arguing about if Cloud and Tifa are in a relationship in AC is really beside the point because Cloud is shown to have romantic feelings for both Aerith and Tifa. Therefore, it doesn't matter who Cloud ends up in a relationship with. And for obvious reasons, it can't be Aerith. That's why I believe when Nojima says that things might have gone better with Aerith, it *DOES* suggest to me that things didn't go very well between Cloud and Tifa and that Cloud and Aerith may have been a better match had she lived. It makes me think, "hmmm, Cloud and Aerith seemed to be getting along famously during disc 1...so if she had lived, I bet things would have gone better between them". That's just one of the reasons I support the Clerith ship -- I think Cloud and Aerith are more compatible. That's not to say Tifa is a bad person (I actually love her character). But if you want to ask me who I think would be a better match for Cloud in particular, I'd have to say Aerith hands down. Nojima seems to suggest he agrees with that assessment, too. Plus, judging by how Cloud and Aerith interacted vs. how Cloud and Tifa interacted, there really shouldn't be any question of which couple is more compatible.

Well, like any couple, Cloud and Aerith would have had issues too (Nojima even says so), but, yes, it's entirely possible there would have been fewer. But, as you said, this is all beside the point of who Cloud loves.

For the record, though, I do think the developers intended to hint at Cloud and Aerith's compatibility from even the outset of designing them. He's a Leo. She's an Aquarius. Being on opposite sides of the Zodiac table from one another, Aquarius and Leo are supposed to be most compatible. :monster:

Blank said:
The question isn't who Cloud ended up with, nor which couple expressed mutual feelings. And since it is established that Cloud had romantic feelings for both women, why can't this website say that both pairings are canon?

Perhaps it will. :monster: Though it's still going to be necessary for the sake of being thorough that any forthcoming analysis weighs the evidence regarding where Cloud and Tifa stand.

Mock me all you want...but...

No one has yet to answer my question: how could a wedding prediction become "MORE PAINFUL" after Aerith's death if Cloud never had romantic feelings for Aerith in the first place?

If Cloud never had romantic feelings for Aerith in the first place, a marriage would have never been possible. Therefore, it wouldn't make sense that the prediction would become "more painful" after Aerith's death *UNLESS* Cloud and Aerith had a mutual romantic attraction that was cut short by Sephiroth.

It's a fair enough observation, yes.
 

Lex

Administrator
ROFL

I get that but I don't understand what the picture is of... what is the screen showing? What is this chat setting? (If it's really complicated it's fine, I'm just trying to figure out why it has FFVII stuff in there)

Sorry I didn't notice this earlier.

FF XIV has chat (player chat) which you can see a tiny bit of in that image at the bottom left. You can customise chat settings, like what colour the text appears as, how the names appear (first or surname only), font size etc.

So when you hover over options like "Say" in the settings menu (say means when you manually target another player and type something in the chat box) it shows you a preview of how it's going to look so you can see how it looks when you change the settings.

The previews for all of these options contain Cloud or Tifa (and only Cloud or Tifa) saying/doing something - these have obviously been inserted by the devs as a fun little nod to FFVII.

For example, there are the ones pictured, then there's

<Tifa Lockheart> casts dispel on The Shadow Man
<Cloud Strife> uses potion
<Cloud Strife> wallows in self pity...

etc.
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
It can become more painful because she's just been brutally murdered after being given a false fortune of a long and fruitful life.

Fuck, it could have been BARRET getting that prediction, Marriage included, and it still would be more painful. Oddly sudden on the marriage portion, but predicting someone's happiest day to them on THE DAY BEFORE THEIR MURDER does kind of make the whole thing more brutal, regardless of what you specifically feel for them.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom