The Love Triangle Debate thread of KNEEL BEFORE ZOD OR SUFFER HIS WRATH (ignore the opening posts at your peril) (Round 6)

[Aerobalance]

Hey BlankBeat; if you're in the Cloud x Aeris group in Facebook (which i think you are?) how come I keep seeing this guy that always talk shit about Tifa every post he makes?
He even posted 3D Tifa fan-art and called her ugly and depressed-looking?

I mean, don't you think it's odd that he started bashing Tifa and idolizing Aeris, then he disappears for maybe a month or two, and then suddenly he's back doing the same thing; even after people were complaining about it?

(Don't know how much I can say about the spammers, cause I didn't see one posted today I think?) what happened to the Admin of the group?

 

[Dashell]

For the fourth time: I don't disagree that Cloud agreed to help Tifa; but it was Cloud's concern for Aerith's safety that initially caused him to agree to help Tifa. Look at the script.

What happened to "Cloud never expresses concern for Tifa"? and Cloud saving Tifa for the money?

look at the Ultimania quotes... or are we still not doing that cause we don't have the full page translated?... I got kinda lost here

 

[BlankBeat]

BB, seriously I never know Tifa is jealous of Aerith in AC. If you can give me quote of ultimania or script, I'll be grateful enough.

"The thing which she is unable to hide in her irritation towards Cloud is the fact that he isn’t merely dragging the past around, but because that reason might perhaps be related to Aerith.

FFVII: Seeing Cloud and Aerith developing their world together before her eyes, she inadvertently lets slip her peevish feelings.

AC: Upon knowing that Cloud had been residing in Aerith’s church after leaving the place they had been living in together, her expression becomes complex.” ~Tifa’s character profile, 10th Anniversary Ultimania

“Both of them share feelings for Cloud — Tifa was close to Aerith, who can also be called a love rival. With that point in mind, they were also good friends. Nevertheless, it is not hard to imagine that she carries complex feelings as a woman toward Aerith, who had built up a special bond with Cloud that was different from Tifa’s. Tifa’s complicated feelings continue even in AC, two years after Aerith had departed the world.” ~Tifa’s profile, FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania, pg. 42-47

Tifa see's exactly what us Clerith's have seen since day 1.

 

[Dashell]

Do you have the full pages for those?

 

[Strangelove]

look at the Ultimania quotes... or are we still not doing that cause we don't have the full page translated?... I got kinda lost here

the rest of the page only matters if you can't find something to discredit it in what you have already

 

[Dashell]

Now that I think about it, does the script say anything about a special bond between Cloud and Aerith? Tifa NEVER said that in FFVII... it's not anywhere in the script... Tifa didn't think that at all. The words "Special bond" were never uttered...

I mean who will you believe? Some old dusty Ultimania quote or the script?

 

[Aerobalance]

Now that I think about it, does the script say anything about a special bond between Cloud and Aerith? Tifa NEVER said that in FFVII... it's not anywhere in the script... Tifa didn't think that at all. The words "Special bond" were never uttered...

I mean who will you believe? Some old dusty Ultimania quote or the script?

Your mother because she probably played an assload of FFVII. I don't trust YOU.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

If you want me to admit that Cloud showed care for others during disc 1, I will do so. Cloud showed care for other people besides Aerith during disc 1. But was it to the same level as his care for Aerith? Absolutely not.

I really don't give a crap, and I'm not going to argue over shit like this (i.e. whether a Cloud that didn't have some of his most important memories and was confused about the ones he did still have exhibited remotely more care for one person he risked his life for than a half dozen others) that no one has any way of verifying.

My main goal is to show that from the very moment Cloud fell in Aerith's Church, she is the one person Cloud consistently and frequently showed concern for.

Well, you're going to fail in that endeavor, because he consistently and frequently shows concern for Tifa too. So, good luck with that, buddy.

If Barret witnessed Cloud fighting for those in Sector 7, why does he still make his observation?

"If" he witnessed it? You mean, if he somehow didn't notice Cloud fighting right alongside him on the pillar?

Anyway, do I really have to start copying and pasting my own posts that I just made now?:

If all you wanted to do here was argue that Barret's observation is evidence of Cloud caring for Aerith (which no one here disagrees with in the first goddamn place), then you would just say that and leave it at that. It would be a reasonable enough claim.

Hell, even if you wanted to claim that this is the first time Barret realizes Cloud cares about other people, that would be reasonable enough.

He doesn't know Cloud stuck around for the second reactor bombing for Tifa. He doesn't know Cloud went to rescue her from Corneo's. He especially doesn't know that Cloud subjected himself to being dressed up as a girl for Tifa's sake.

He doesn't know a lot of things, because he wasn't there and no one has filled him in.

You could argue that Barret doesn't even realize Cloud trying to save him and Sector 7 at the pillar was out of the goodness of his heart. You could argue that he may have initially believed Tifa was paying him to do it.

But you don't. You just say Cloud was in it for money when it came to sticking around. You say he only wanted to help Tifa because Aerith did. You, oddly enough, don't try to explain why he bothers helping Barret and Sector 7, and just quickly skip on ahead to him trying to rescue Aerith from Shin-Ra headquarters.

And then you try to use Barret's observation as evidence that Cloud hasn't cared about anyone but Aerith up to this point.

You continually accuse me of downplaying Cloud and Tifa's bond. Yet, here you are downplaying Aerith's role in Cloud's decision to enter Don Corneo's mansion.

Because she wasn't a goddamn factor in the decision. He was already talking about going in for fuck's sake.

Aerith had no role in Cloud wanting to help Tifa. He wanted to help her because she was his friend.

I don't need a quote to tell me that Aerith's safety was a concern of Cloud's because I have the script:

You don't need a quote to tell you that Aerith's safety was a concern of Cloud's because no one is fucking questioning that he cared about her.

For the fifth time: I don't disagree that Cloud agreed to help Tifa ...

No one has said you did. What you've said is that he didn't want to help her because he cared about her well-being.

... but it was Cloud's concern for Aerith's safety that initially caused him to agree to help Tifa. Look at the script.

Look at the game.

Because it's a love triangle? Love is a complicated topic, and sometimes falling in love with two people makes love that much more complex. But as I've stated over and over, I don't deny that Cloud loved Tifa. But do I believe they are in an established romantic relationship? Absolutely not.

"And having two heroines, Aerith and Tifa, and having the hero waver between them, at the time that was something new.” ~Interview with the creators, pg. 8-13, 10th Anniversary Ultimania

To believe that Cloud has to end up with one of his romantic love interests is a false choice. The answer can be that Cloud didn't end up with either Aerith or Tifa. Aerith, because she's dead; Tifa, because her and Cloud aren't compatible. Until we see unequivocal romantic evidence of Cloud and Tifa being in a relationship after the HAHW scene, there is nothing that makes them an official romantic couple.

None of this has anything to do with what I asked you. What the fuck, dude?

Now, same question:

You want to talk about literary intent? Fine, let's do that. Why even reveal near the game's end -- in its greatest moment of revelation, mind you -- that Cloud ever had romantic feelings for Tifa if the intention was simply that there is a tragic love story at work with Cloud and Aerith? Why do that if it's only about them? Why even have the Zack angle? What is the literary intent there? What is being revealed about the real love story with an unresolved romance and a throwaway crush that never had any relevance before this point in the story and wasn't needed to explain any of it?

Are you really trying to argue that they needed to establish the love triangle after Aerith was already dead? Was it not already one with both women wanting Cloud?

If Cloud's feelings for Tifa as an adolescent have nothing to do with who he is in the present with his memories now recovered, then there is no point in revealing to us that he ever had those feelings. They are irrelevant. They don't inform anything on the story or characters. Are you really trying to argue that a memory described as being key to Cloud's true self and revealed in the story's greatest moment of unraveling mysteries about Cloud is completely irrelevant?

Again, you write a shit story.

So Cloud and Aerith's romantic relationship was a decoy, even though Cloud expresses a desire to meet her in the Promised Land, harbors extreme guilt for letting her die, and expresses a desire to continue connecting with her spiritually?

The presentation was a decoy, as was making it look like only Tifa had been the one with the crush since childhood while Cloud was oblivious, and you know it. I didn't say the relationship itself was a decoy and you also know that.

We were discussing literary intent. The order in which things are presented to the player for digestion, and the intention behind presenting them in that order.

When Aerith inserts herself in Tifa's plan, Cloud doesn't go, "I don't want *EITHER* of you to go!" -- he specifically focuses on trying to convince *Aerith* not to go. Only until Aerith points out Cloud's double standard, does Cloud express concern for Tifa's safety. This suggests Cloud is more worried about Aerith than Tifa.

Would Cloud have expressed concern for Tifa's safety if Aerith hadn't pointed out Cloud's double standard? We'll never know.

Then stop talking about it like it matters.

Then why did you include it in your initial post as evidence? You provided this as evidence before I asked for the context of the quotes.

YOU ASKED FOR TWO ENTIRE GODDAMN PAGES. I GAVE YOU THREE.

And where the fuck did I use it as evidence instead of to satisfy your insulting request? I'm so sick of your bullshit.

So what? Cloud could have interrupted Aerith.

She interrupted them. Or have you not read the script/played the game/paid any attention to the topic you're trying to act like an expert about?

 

[OneWingedDemon]

but it was Cloud's concern for Aerith's safety that initially caused him to agree to help Tifa.

What the fuck??

Cloud pretty much spells his reason out, yet you choose one conversation out of the entire sequence of events to take apart and reinterpret as you wish. Which is an ongoing problem I see.

Aeris is his primary concern? You've got to be fucking shitting me. The girl whose house he ditches at dawn to go to Tifa is his primary concern. Yes, I can see how one could make that mistake. Must be because he tries to ditch Aeris again 10 mins later.

IN any case, he is at Wallmarket to rescue Tifa specifically. The very purpose of being there, before that exchange with Aeris even happens, is to get to Tifa. That is literally your objective as a gamer at this point -- to sneak in & fetch Tifa. How the fuck then can his primary concern be Aeris? Aeris is RIGHT THERE WITH HIM. Tifa is the one alone in a brothel. He was going to go in anyway, Aeris just found a more covert way to do it.

That exchange is nothing more than Cloud not wanting to put Aeris INTO THE EXACT SAME DANGEROUS SITUATION HE IS TRYING TO GET TIFA OUT OF.

"Ja, I'm going through all this shit to rescue Tifa from this place, but fuck you. You can go in alone in that dangerous place I want Tifa out of." Yeah, sounds like a perfectly logical alternative.

And you are purposely disregarding Cloud's actions before that exchange even happens. He is asking for Tifa, poking about to find a way to get to Tifa. He intends to go in any way he can find, but because his methods are so direct and Honey Bee is a members only club, and Don's mansion is not easily accessible ("most powerful man in Wall Market"), he's obviously having trouble.

"This is the mansion of Don Corneo, the most powerful man in Wall Market. Look, the Don's not into men. So don't let me catch you around here again..."

He didn't think of passing himself off as a woman because it's so ridic only Aeris would throw it as a legit option.

There is pretty much 0 need to continue to indulge you here as you are simply flat out wrong. The script doesn't say what you want it to say, and the books don't say it either. You should all be done here. BB is basically putting 2+2 and getting 5 ON PURPOSE.

 

[Ryushikaze]

「いや、違うな。間違っているぞ、ブランクビート。エアリスを殺したのは…　この私だ！！」　－野村哲也
[No, that's not right. You're wrong, Blankbeat. The one who killed Aerith... is me!! -- Tetsuya Nomura]

it has to be true, it's all moonrunes and stuff

(if anyone gets where that is from i will give you nothing because you're all internet people to me)

JoJo's Bizarre Adventure?

BTW, about all this bullshit about Wall Market and Cloud not caring about Tifa, while, yes, Cloud says he doesn't want Aerith going in to Corneo's place along, he repeately mention's Tifa's safety and nixes his own plan of charging in because it would cause too much commotion, IE- endanger Tifa.

As for BlankBeat being the Spammer on the CxA facebook group (I see it in my feed sometimes because shock of shock, I have friends in the group), it would not surprise me in the slightest.

The only real difference is that here, BB has to pretend not to utterly loathe Tifa and tries- though fails- to have a coherent argument, while the CxA spammer does not.

Oh, and as for the Friendzone BS, you do not move in with, form a family with, adopt a child with, and have a future with the man or woman you friendzoned.

 

[Strangelove]

it's not jba but damn i was meaning to read that

 

[OneWingedDemon]

BTW, about all this bullshit about Wall Market and Cloud not caring about Tifa, while, yes, Cloud says he doesn't want Aerith going in to Corneo's place along, he repeately mention's Tifa's safety and nixes his own plan of charging in because it would cause too much commotion, IE- endanger Tifa

And even Aeris has to bring up the Tifa card for him to consider her idea. "You want to help Tifa don't you?"

And Cloud echoes her as he's picking up items. Is it the panty quest during which he says "I'm supposed to wear this? Well, if it's to save Tifa"? Can't remember off the top of my head.

 

[BlankBeat]

Well, you're going to fail in that endeavor, because he consistently and frequently shows concern for Tifa too. So, good luck with that, buddy.

People wonder why I focus so much on disc 1, and the reason is because it's only fair to compare apples to apples. After Aerith dies, Cloud has limited opportunities to show he cares for her -- and obviously Aerith wasn't around during Cloud and Tifa's childhood.

So when we look at an even playing filed, before Cloud was influenced by all of his childhood memories, and before Aerith died, it is clear that Cloud preferred Aerith. Tifa repeatedly witnesses Cloud's preference during disc 1, which is why her jealously begins right when Cloud and Aerith rescue her. In fact, Tifa's jealously continues even after Cloud regains all of his memories.

And even though Cloud isn't given many opportunities to show he cares for Aerith after disc 1, he still expresses a desire to meet Aerith in a place of supreme happiness, decides to visit Aerith's Church before being diagnosed with geostigma, and admits to thinking about Aerith a lot.

From the moment Cloud fell in Aerith's Church, he consistently and repeatedly shows concern and care for her. Cloud's level of concern and care for Aerith is un-matched during disc 1, which is exactly what SE wanted us to see so that when she died, it was that much more heartbreaking.

"If" he witnessed it? You mean, if he somehow didn't notice Cloud fighting right alongside him on the pillar?

Anyway, do I really have to start copying and pasting my own posts that I just made now?:

What I mean is -- if Cloud fighting alongside Barret showed that Cloud is willing to fight for others besides himself, why does Barret still associate this change in Cloud's behavior with Aerith?

「あんたでも他人のために使うことがあるんだな。見直したぜ」
――クラウドがエアリスを気づかうのを見て

解説
クラウドに反感を抱いていたバレットが、はじめて彼を見直す場面。以後、バレットのクラウドへの態度は軟化していく。

"Even you will fight for other people sometimes. I am impressed."
-- On seeing that Cloud is concerned about Aerith

Explanation:
Barret, who had been antagonistic towards Cloud, changes his view of him for the first time in this scene. After this, Barret's attitude towards Cloud softens.

Because she wasn't a goddamn factor in the decision. He was already talking about going in for fuck's sake.

Why does Cloud say, "But I can't let you go alone…," if there was never a possibility that Cloud *WASN'T* going to go in? The phrasing of Cloud's line doesn't make sense if Cloud was always going to go in.

Oh, and where does Cloud talk about going in prior to Aerith saying, "Do you want to go with me?"

Part 1:
Cloud: "You DO know... what kind of... place this is, don't you?"

Aerith:"Then, what am I supposed to do? You want to go in with me?"

If Cloud was always going to go in, why does Aerith invite him to go with her?

Part 2:
Cloud: "But, I just can't let you go in alone... Oh, man......"

If Cloud was always going to go in, how could there have ever been a possibility that Aerith would have gone alone? Again -- the phrasing of Cloud's line doesn't make sense if he was always going to go in regardless of Aerith's safety being at risk.

If Cloud's feelings for Tifa as an adolescent have nothing to do with who he is in the present with his memories now recovered, then there is no point in revealing to us that he ever had those feelings. They are irrelevant. They don't inform anything on the story or characters. Are you really trying to argue that a memory described as being key to Cloud's true self and revealed in the story's greatest moment of unraveling mysteries about Cloud is completely irrelevant?

Again, you write a shit story.

Cloud had feelings for Tifa, and continues to have feelings for Tifa. So of course his childhood feelings influence, to some degree, his adult feelings. But is it evidence of a romantic relationship between them? Absolutely not.

Then stop talking about it like it matters.

It matters because when Cloud had the opportunity to express concern and care for both Aerith and Tifa in Don's mansion, his initial reaction was to be protective of Aerith, not Tifa. Only after Aerith points out Cloud's double standard does he express concern for Tifa. This highlights Cloud's unique bond that him and Aerith started to develop, a bond that Tifa quickly witnesses and immediately becomes jealous of -- a jealously that continues even after her and Cloud express mutual feelings.

YOU ASKED FOR TWO ENTIRE GODDAMN PAGES. I GAVE YOU THREE.

If you agree that the second quote doesn't tell us *WHY* Cloud rescued Tifa, why did you include it in THIS post?

She interrupted them. Or have you not read the script/played the game/paid any attention to the topic you're trying to act like an expert about?

And after Aerith interrupted them, Cloud doesn't say, "Neither of you should do this!" -- he only expresses concern for Aerith's safety. Why does it take Aerith pointing out Cloud's double standard for him to finally express concern for Tifa's safety?

--------------------

Oh, and as for the Friendzone BS, you do not move in with, form a family with, adopt a child with, and have a future with the man or woman you friendzoned.

All circumstantial evidence that might show signs of a romantic relationship if only viewed from the surface.

The children Cloud and Tifa have, in addition to the family they formed in Edge (with Barret), are not a result of their romantic relationship. Both the children and family formed were due to circumstances that had NOTHING to do with their (possible) romantic relationship. Therefore, the children and the family can't be used to support the idea of a romantic relationship between Cloud and Tifa.

The narrative is that four people who were displaced after Metero decided to form a family, rebuilt Seventh Heaven, and call it home. Just because Barret leaves on a journey does not remove him from the family he helped create, nor does it remove him as Marlene's Farther, nor does it remove him from his role in rebuilding Seventh Heaven. To use Seventh Heaven (in particular) as evidence, especially when Cloud has his own room with a bed in it, is laughable. You make it seem as though Cloud and Tifa went out and purchased their first home together...LOL.

Oh, and the future Cloud and Tifa have together sure doesn't seem to be getting much better after AC. Just look at DoC.

 

[Strangelove]

How does looking at DC tell you anything about Cloud and Tifa? Is fighting bad guys together and having no decernable story of theor own in a game about Vincent an indication of a bad relationship?

 

[Akai Hana]

So much denial. So much manipulating and twisting quotes. It made my head hurts, really.

Seriously, what and why the hell did Cloud help to build Seventh Heaven, stay with Tifa, form a FAMILY together with her, adopt and raise the children together if he still in love with Aerith?

You're making Cloud a douchebag. Enough said.

 

[BlankBeat]

Seriously, what and why the hell did Cloud help to build Seventh Heaven, stay with Tifa, form a FAMILY together with her, adopt and raise the children together if he still in love with Aerith?

Why do you deny Barret and Marlene's involvement?

How does the rebuilding of Seventh Heaven, the children they are taking care of, or the family formed in Edge, have ANYTHING to do with their (possible) romantic relationship? Seriously...how did any of those things take place directly because of their (possible) romantic relationship?

 

[Dashell]

How does the rebuilding of Seventh Heaven, the children they are taking care of, or the family formed in Edge, have ANYTHING to do with their (possible) romantic relationship? Seriously...how did any of those things take place directly because of their (possible) romantic relationship?

Why do you deny that the reason Cloud and Tifa live together is BECAUSE Of their shared feelings according to the CC Ultimania?

 

[Strangelove]

Cloud says his new life will go better because he has Tifa (when she says she's always been there, he tells her that what he means is different). He doesn't say 'because Barret's here' or anything.

If Cloud saying 'I'm... We're there for you' to Aerith is meant to show romance, what is this line meant to show?

(I know there is will be an alternative explanation, this is a rhetorical question.)

 

[BlankBeat]

Why do you deny that the reason Cloud and Tifa live together is BECAUSE Of their shared feelings according to the CC Ultimania?

It doesn't say that at all. It simply states the order of events: Cloud and Tifa express mutual feelings, then live together in AC. It doesn't say that expressing mutual feelings led to them living together.

In fact, if you look at the story, you can find out exactly why they decided to live together -- Barret, Cloud, Tifa, and Marlene were displaced after Meteor. So they decided to rebuild Seventh Heaven because they all had no other place to go. Them living together was not a result of their (possible) romantic relationship, but circumstances that were outside of their control (ie: meteor).

 

[Strangelove]

How does looking at DC tell you anything about Cloud and Tifa? Is fighting bad guys together and having no decernable story of theor own in a game about Vincent an indication of a bad relationship?

 

[Dashell]

It doesn't say that at all. It simply states the order of events: Cloud and Tifa express mutual feelings, then live together in AC. It doesn't say that expressing mutual feelings led to them living together.

Yeah I'm gonna need a Japanese person to explain this... I know at least 3 people here, including JayM explained how the sentence flows in Japanese and means this.

 

[BlankBeat]

Yeah I'm gonna need a Japanese person to explain this... I know at least 3 people here, including JayM explained how the sentence flows in Japanese and means this.

If that is what the quote means, then it doesn't match the story.

“Yeah, let’s go home” Cloud agreed.
“Where to?” Barret asked.
“Our suspended reality.”
“What the hell do you mean by that?”
“Our normal lives.”
“And where do we have something like that?”
“We’ll find one.” Cloud looked at Tifa and said, “Right?”
“Yeah!” cried the cheerful Marlene. Tifa nodded too, but just like Barret, she wondered where they had a normal life." ~CoT

 

[Dashell]

Okay the thing is, just because Marlene and Barret are there doesn't mean that the quote is wrong. Cloud and Tifa are still with one another due to their feelings, they just have some other people there.

I don't understand how these ideas are mutually exclusive

 

[Akai Hana]

I'm not denying anything! If someone who lives in denial, it is you. You deny the fact that Cloud went inside of Corneo Mansion because of he cares and wants to keep his promise to Tifa. You deny the fact that Cloud and Aerith had no *romantic feelings* in Disk 1, you keeps on denying that Cloud and Tifa forms a family together because they had confessed the mutual feelings together and lastly, you deny Barret's observation towards Cloud had nothing to do with Aerith. So who lives in denial now?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

People wonder why I focus so much on disc 1, and the reason is because it's only fair to compare apples to apples.

When he's equally fucked up while around both of them? Okay, I guess.

After Aerith dies, Cloud has limited opportunities to show he cares for her -- and obviously Aerith wasn't around during Cloud and Tifa's childhood.

So when we look at an even playing filed, before Cloud was influenced by all of his childhood memories, and before Aerith died, it is clear that Cloud preferred Aerith.

How is that an even playing field? He has all the memories he's ever had of Aerith during that period but not all his memories of Tifa. The only even playing field is once he has his memories back.

It may not be an even playing field for interaction with them, but if you're just looking for how Cloud feels, it is.

What I mean is -- if Cloud fighting alongside Barret showed that Cloud is willing to fight for others besides himself, why does Barret still associate this change in Cloud's behavior with Aerith?

「あんたでも他人のために使うことがあるんだな。見直したぜ」
――クラウドがエアリスを気づかうのを見て

解説
クラウドに反感を抱いていたバレットが、はじめて彼を見直す場面。以後、バレットのクラウドへの態度は軟化していく。

"Even you will fight for other people sometimes. I am impressed."
-- On seeing that Cloud is concerned about Aerith

Explanation:
Barret, who had been antagonistic towards Cloud, changes his view of him for the first time in this scene. After this, Barret's attitude towards Cloud softens.

Once again:

If all you wanted to do here was argue that Barret's observation is evidence of Cloud caring for Aerith (which no one here disagrees with in the first goddamn place), then you would just say that and leave it at that. It would be a reasonable enough claim.

Hell, even if you wanted to claim that this is the first time Barret realizes Cloud cares about other people, that would be reasonable enough.

He doesn't know Cloud stuck around for the second reactor bombing for Tifa. He doesn't know Cloud went to rescue her from Corneo's. He especially doesn't know that Cloud subjected himself to being dressed up as a girl for Tifa's sake.

He doesn't know a lot of things, because he wasn't there and no one has filled him in.

You could argue that Barret doesn't even realize Cloud trying to save him and Sector 7 at the pillar was out of the goodness of his heart. You could argue that he may have initially believed Tifa was paying him to do it.

But you don't. You just say Cloud was in it for money when it came to sticking around. You say he only wanted to help Tifa because Aerith did. You, oddly enough, don't try to explain why he bothers helping Barret and Sector 7, and just quickly skip on ahead to him trying to rescue Aerith from Shin-Ra headquarters.

And then you try to use Barret's observation as evidence that Cloud hasn't cared about anyone but Aerith up to this point.

How many times are we going to do this?

Why does Cloud say, "But I can't let you go alone…," if there was never a possibility that Cloud *WASN'T* going to go in? The phrasing of Cloud's line doesn't make sense if Cloud was always going to go in.

What are they told when they get there? "Look, the Don's not into men. So don't let me catch you around here again..."

Aerith then immediately pulls Cloud aside and says she's going to go in. That leads to the rest of their conversation:

Aeris
Hey, this look's like the Don's mansion. I'll go take a look.
I'll tell Tifa about you.
She starts for the door.

Cloud
No!! You can't!!

Aeris
Why?

Cloud
You DO know... what kind of... place this is, don't you?

Aeris
Then what am I supposed to do? You want to go in with me?

Cloud
Well being a man, that'll be pretty hard. Besides if I bust in there, it'll cause too much commotion.
But, I just can't let you go in alone... Oh, man......
First... we need to find out if Tifa's alright...

Leaving Tifa behind was never a consideration. He never abandons that topic.

Oh, and where does Cloud talk about going in prior to Aerith saying, "Do you want to go with me?"

Before that exact line? No, he doesn't directly speak of it before Aerith volunteers herself, though I suppose you think he just walked there with no intention of actually entering the goddamn building?

Cloud had feelings for Tifa, and continues to have feelings for Tifa. So of course his childhood feelings influence, to some degree, his adult feelings. But is it evidence of a romantic relationship between them? Absolutely not.

You are possibly the first person in the history of ever to argue that mutually expressed romantic feelings couldn't be evidence for a romantic relationship.

In any case, I didn't say jack shit about whether they have a romantic relationship, so why are you bringing it up? Why couldn't you just answer the question? Why do you constantly go off on tangents that derail the present line of discussion? Why can't you stay focused and just discuss something instead of trying to distract people?

It matters because when Cloud had the opportunity to express concern and care for both Aerith and Tifa in Don's mansion, his initial reaction was to be protective of Aerith, not Tifa.

You mean the person trying to get involved at that exact moment? Imagine that!

YOU ASKED FOR TWO ENTIRE GODDAMN PAGES. I GAVE YOU THREE.

If you agree that the second quote doesn't tell us *WHY* Cloud rescued Tifa, why did you include it in THIS post?

YOU ASKED FOR TWO ENTIRE GODDAMN PAGES. I GAVE YOU THREE.

And after Aerith interrupted them, Cloud doesn't say, "Neither of you should do this!" -- he only expresses concern for Aerith's safety. Why does it take Aerith pointing out Cloud's double standard for him to finally express concern for Tifa's safety?

Because, unlike some people, Cloud is capable of staying focused on the current line of discussion.

Oh, and the future Cloud and Tifa have together sure doesn't seem to be getting much better after AC. Just look at DoC.

Please explain. Meanwhile, I'll brace myself with a cerebral airbag.