The Love Triangle of FFVII Part IV: A New Hope

[Fairheartstrife]

Most of them haven't. The nutjobs fans on this forum are a small minority of fandom. Being well informed is an exception, not the norm.

 

[Splintered]

Most of them haven't. The nutjobs fans on this forum are a small minority of fandom. Being well informed is an exception, not the norm.

I can't really blame them. Canon in FFVII is overly complicated. We've got the main story line, then the retcons, the novels that are canon, the novel that maybe canon but probably isn't, the interviews that span over years so that some of the information contradicts each other, the official guides with canon information, the official guides with dubious information, fights over what the proper translation of a word is, and multiple expanded universe games.

Also, we got two sides of the LTD, all of which are filled with opinionated assholes (glorious assholes though), each claiming that "this is how it is suppose to be."

If I didn't find drama hilarious, I'd run screaming too.

 

[null]

No, no. The voices in my head tell me great things — terrible, yes, but great.

I think it is clear that we can expect great things from you, Mr. Vendel.

Also, we got two sides of the LTD, all of which are filled with opinionated assholes (glorious assholes though), each claiming that "this is how it is suppose to be."

Well some opinionated assholes are just plain wrong, like the ones who enjoy Maiden.

 

[Celes Chere]

FUCK YOU I ENJOYED MAIDEN

 

[null]

FUCK YOU I ENJOYED MAIDEN

Nothing wrong with being an opinionated asshole, except that you're wrong.

 

[Celes Chere]

I AM NOT WRONG FOR LIKING SOMETHING

 

[Vendel]

I AM NOT WRONG FOR LIKING SOMETHING

That's not necessarily true.

 

[Celes Chere]

IT'S TRUE IN THIS CASE

 

[Gabranth]

Whatever you do in the privacy of your own home is your business.

 

[null]

Celes, liking Nero is wrong... and so is liking Maiden. As Professor Lupin would say, liking the wrong things is becoming your signature move, and I urge you not to let it become so!

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Celes, there are people out there that like being spanked wearing high heels and whipped cream. People LIKE all kinds of things, some are just plain wrong. Now, my and Vendel's weekend fetishes aside, liking Maiden is one thing. Spouting it as canon is the other.

 

[null]

You and Vendel seriously need to just fuck for two weeks straight. I could swim in the sexual tension in here.

 

[Celes Chere]

Celes, liking Nero is wrong... and so is liking Maiden.

Why is liking Nero wrong? THAT'S WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU CLOTI ASSHOLES, YOU'RE ALWAYS SHOVING FACTS IN PEOPLE'S FACES AND TELLING IT LIKE IT IS.

And I never said Maiden was canon. =P I did enjoy reading it though.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Celes, there are people out there that like being spanked wearing high heels and whipped cream. People LIKE all kinds of things, some are just plain wrong. Now, my and Vendel's weekend fetishes aside, liking Maiden is one thing. Spouting it as canon is the other.

Wait, how is spanking with heels and cream WRONG?

You and Vendel seriously need to just fuck for two weeks straight. I could swim in the sexual tension in here.

Don't worry. I have a paddle and whip with FHS's name on it, and a Gatling cannon with Vendel's on each bullet.

 

[Gabranth]

What's Nero?
Aside from a Roman Emperor and a Dante wannabe?

 

[Joker]

+1 for HP reference

But...you guys are getting off-topic.

:johnlocke:

 

[Ryushikaze]

What's Nero?
Aside from a Roman Emperor and a Dante wannabe?

JA software package for the creation of multimedia discs and projects.

SPECULATION TIME: It has been said that 'not ending the LTD/ throwing the Cloti a bone' makes SE money. Your job- come up with a remotely plausible way this does, without being conspiracy theory cuckoo.

 

[Joker]

^ faileditlol

ACTUAL ON TOPIC POST:


It seems to me that Maiden is actually canon. I mean, it was included in the Ultimania. Isn't that reason enough in and of itself? You can't cite thus-and-such proof of whatever you like "because the Ultimania says so" without accepting that. Plus, there isn't one reason for it NOT to be canon, as there are no major inconsistencies. Crisis Core has more inconsistencies than Maiden does. You're all just upset that Cloud and Aerith are heavily focused on (probably because Aerith loves CLOUD, which is painfully obvious), and Zack is basically ignored by Aerith.

 

[Ryushikaze]

^ faileditlol

Come off it sunshine. We both know if I hadn't thrown the quote in, you'd be trying to lol about me responding to the wrong person.

ACTUAL ON TOPIC POST:

It seems to me that Maiden is actually canon. I mean, it was included in the Ultimania. Isn't that reason enough in and of itself? You can't cite thus-and-such proof of whatever you like "because the Ultimania says so" without accepting that. Plus, there isn't one reason for it NOT to be canon, as there are no major inconsistencies. Crisis Core has more inconsistencies than Maiden does. You're all just upset that Cloud and Aerith are heavily focused on (probably because Aerith loves CLOUD, which is painfully obvious), and Zack is basically ignored by Aerith.

Zack, ignored? She tries to think of the things that make Cloud unique and she comes up with Zack.
Yeah, totally not loving Zack.

Maiden can't be canon in the same continuity as COLW. The Cetra are holding on in the latter, but are completely gone in the former. That's actually a bigger problem than any of the differences between FF7 and CC.

 

[Joker]

You seem to have me confused with someone that's that much of an idiot. (and that petty, which I am not)

Well, then that would imply that *gasp* COLW isn't canon, wouldn't it? It's also worth noting that it's STILL included in the Ultimania, and that the creators don't state that Maiden is a side story. They didn't directly state it wasn't canon like they did for Last Order. Therefore, you can't really argue that it's NOT canon.

And didn't Aerith said she loved Cloud more than Zack? Doesn't it describes Zack as her 'dear friend'? If he was her love interest they wouldn't use 'dear friend'. I mean, I don't know about YOU, but I don't call Tiff my 'dear friend'. In the language of women, that's the tactful way of saying "she's just not that into you".

 

[Alex]

Come off it sunshine.

This is too fucking adorable

 

[Fairheartstrife]

You seem to have me confused with someone that's that much of an idiot. (and that petty, which I am not)

Well, then that would imply that *gasp* COLW isn't canon, wouldn't it? It's also worth noting that it's STILL included in the Ultimania, and that the creators don't state that Maiden is a side story. They didn't directly state it wasn't canon like they did for Last Order. Therefore, you can't really argue that it's NOT canon.

And didn't Aerith said she loved Cloud more than Zack? Doesn't it describes Zack as her 'dear friend'? If he was her love interest they wouldn't use 'dear friend'. I mean, I don't know about YOU, but I don't call Tiff my 'dear friend'. In the language of women, that's the tactful way of saying "she's just not that into you".

Wait, wait, are you trying to argue CoLW is LESS canon than Maiden? CoLW, the story WRITTEN BY NOJIMA himself, versus Benny Matsuyama fanfic? **wipes eyes** Oh, that's cute.

Maiden is effectively removed from compilation, and I believe we have argued--to death--that Maiden is shitty fanfic and non-canon.

 

[Splintered]

Well, then that would imply that *gasp* COLW isn't canon, wouldn't it?

The only issue with that is that COLW is written by Kazushige Nojima while Maiden was written by Benny Matsuyama. So the argument goes ColW> Benny- and no one can agree on how much oversight Matsuyama has.

Then again, apparently Benny Matsuyama also wrote the Ultimanias.

CoLW and Crisis Core seems to retcon some of the points made in Maiden. The problem is if you consider the retcon just parts of the story, or it in its entirety. I mean, Crisis Core also retconned some of FFVII so...

 

[Joker]

Wait, wait, are you trying to argue CoLW is LESS canon than Maiden? CoLW, the story WRITTEN BY NOJIMA himself, versus Benny Matsuyama fanfic? **wipes eyes** Oh, that's cute.

Maiden is effectively removed from compilation, and I believe we have argued--to death--that Maiden is shitty fanfic and non-canon.

No...since things are either canon or not, not "less canon". I thought you would have known that?

There's quite enough evidence in Maiden to make the statement that it IS, in fact, canon. You can argue that it's shitty fanwank all you want, but that doesn't really change the facts, now does it? Although it might help the 'having an actual conversation' bit if you dropped the condescension and had an actual discussion with people. But what do I know?

The only issue with that is that COLW is written by Kazushige Nojima while Maiden was written by Benny Matsuyama. So the argument goes ColW> Benny- and no one can agree on how much oversight Matsuyama has.

Then again, apparently Benny Matsuyama also wrote the Ultimanias.

CoLW and Crisis Core seems to retcon some of the points made in Maiden. The problem is if you consider the retcon just parts of the story, or it in its entirety. I mean, Crisis Core also retconned some of FFVII so...

Exactly. You can't just pick and choose and say "thus and such is canon because Ultimania", then call the legitimacy of the Ultimania and its writer into question, just because he's not the scenario writer. You can't have your cake and eat it, too.

also, CC = lulz

 

[Ryushikaze]

You seem to have me confused with someone that's that much of an idiot. (and that petty, which I am not)

And yet, you were petty enough to point it out in the first place.

Well, then that would imply that *gasp* COLW isn't canon, wouldn't it?

So, story written by the original writer is now less authoritative than a shitty fanfic shoved in the back of a guide, which has never been referenced, and has since been contravened in disregarded in numerous ways. Check.

It's also worth noting that it's STILL included in the Ultimania,

No it isn't. It's never made ANY reappearance or reference in ANY Ultimania outside the first, and wasn't even referenced outside itself in that one.

and that the creators don't state that Maiden is a side story. They didn't directly state it wasn't canon like they did for Last Order. Therefore, you can't really argue that it's NOT canon.

Yes I can. Complete disregard from the people who make a series is pretty much one of the best ways to tell something isn't part of the continuity.

It's completely and utterly non grata. At least LO, despite being discontinuous, is IMPORTANT. Maiden, NOT IMPORTANT.

And didn't Aerith said she loved Cloud more than Zack? Doesn't it describes Zack as her 'dear friend'? If he was her love interest they wouldn't use 'dear friend'. I mean, I don't know about YOU, but I don't call Tiff my 'dear friend'. In the language of women, that's the tactful way of saying "she's just not that into you".

It also had her try and think about everything that made her gush over Cloud, everything that 'made him unique' and the majority of that shit was ZACK'S. So Aerith's actions- thinking of Zackly aspects in trying trying to remember Cloud, are at odds with what she says, just like in the game.
That's one of the parts of the story she actually feels in character in- lying to herself.

This is too fucking adorable

Explain, before I decide to completely justifiably mark this as worthless spam.

No...since things are either canon or not, not "less canon". I thought you would have known that?

There's quite enough evidence in Maiden to make the statement that it IS, in fact, canon.

Then provide some, trolljob.

You can argue that it's shitty fanwank all you want, but that doesn't really change the facts, now does it? Although it might help the 'having an actual conversation' bit if you dropped the condescension and had an actual discussion with people. But what do I know?

Nothing, since you are the height of hypocrisy right now.

Exactly. You can't just pick and choose and say "thus and such is canon because Ultimania", then call the legitimacy of the Ultimania and its writer into question, just because he's not the scenario writer. You can't have your cake and eat it, too.

Maiden isn't acanon because Benny's not the scenario writer, it's acanon because it's been outright ignored and contradicted in several consequent work, including one in which the scenario writer expressly contradicted a cosmological fact maiden put forth.

also, CC = lulz

Yes yes, we know it's fashionable to hate on it because of Gackt. Please, do provide concrete facts, not a dismissive attitude.

And BTW, such a thing as 'less canon' does exist. Lucasfilm canon policy.