The Official "Where will Rebirth end?" Thread

[ForceStealer]

Yeah if you split one game into three and still can't manage a 9-person cast (and potentially 8), that'd be pretty sad.

 

[Roundhouse]

I used to laugh when people suggested the Northern Crater, but now that they have announced that there are only two parts left....and seeing how the teaser focused so much on fact and fiction/Cloud's memory issue, it really does feel like that would be the best stopping place. The problem being that there is a LOT to cover in P2 if that is the case, unless they are moving certain things to P3. Ending with Cloud in that lost, hopeless state, with the truth of his identity revealed (which in turn is the perfect chance for Zack to step in) is too fitting.

I do wish we could ban the constant references to ESB, it is already feeling overwhelming now, and will only increase I'm sure XD But I get why it's used, and it makes sense. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Kitase had it in mind when he was talking about sequels.

 

[Rydeen]

Not sure if I like this Northern Crater idea. I feel like this would have the opposite problem of part 1 (which I feel dragged on a bit since the side-quests were mostly crap imho) - operating under the assumption that they want to add more content (the OG accomplished it just fine, after all). I do think it's possible it may go off the rails, though.

Spoiler

The destiny stuff and Zack being alive is a big deal that I'm imagining will greatly effect the plot.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Rebirth should definitely feel like a tighter experience compared to Remake.

I've repeated this comparison, but it should 100% feel as dense and complete like a full on FF mainline game. Like FFXV. It should 100% be a full, wide ranging adventure that includes recruiting multiple party members, seeing different locations, and working towards the end game.

It should be able to balance that just fine since it's not going to be open worlded and instead utilize zones to appropriately transition from one location to another, alongside it being chapter based. Going from Kalm to the Northern Crater is 1000% possible. Especially within the scope of Disc 1 to Disc 2.

 

[Kain424]

Of course it's possible. I think people are just saying it's A LOT. And I agree. But also remember, they've probably spent more time actively working on this part than Midgar. It's not only possible, but highly probably. And even more desirable.

But her memory powers (at least visions of the future?) are now gone with the Whispers being gone, right?

Nothing in Remake suggests to be the case. And even if it did happen, Marlene and Red XIII would have memories Aerith lost. Which is why that theory is silly.

Besides, if Vincent and Aerith don't meet, then there's going to be some upset I Know What's Beneath the Snow Fields fans out there.

I don't know what this is... but I want to.

I’m going with my boy Max on this. He’s convinced me. I think the ending cinematic for Part 2 will be Tifa and Barret in Junon about to be executed.

This was the first theory from back when it was revealed the game would be multiple parts. I am happy to see Max is in agreement. It does, however, leave us asking about Zack's role if he is indeed alive. Does he just allow himself to get captured after he's proven he can fight off dozens of soldiers already? What's the deal there?

I do wish we could ban the constant references to ESB, it is already feeling overwhelming now, and will only increase I'm sure XD But I get why it's used, and it makes sense. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Kitase had it in mind when he was talking about sequels.

What else would he have been talking about?

 

[Roundhouse]

The bazillion other sequels in existence, but ESB is the most likely for sure.

 

[Prism]

I think there’s a lot of discussion that might have covered this already, but I figure I’ll just post what I was thinking

The Northern Crater (the first time you visit it) seems like a perfect place to cut the game off. Cloud’s fallen into the lifestream, his self-image has been shattered, the party’s lost the black Materia, Sephiroth begins reforming his body to ascend to godhood… (perhaps where the “rebirth” title comes into play?) It sets up a good cliffhanger and suspenseful place to pick up when Part 3 starts. Starting out part 3 with the attack on Junon is also quite exciting and is a good tone shift between the parts.

But like, given the whole changes in the game narrative we expect, how would the original events unfold if some key things change?

 

[Fryguy07]

Well, i think youre all wrong because honestly, I dont think this game is going in any direction we've ever seen...I think remake was about as close to the originals storyline as it will get. Now its time to go completely off the rails! That's just my opinion though. Of course they will encounter these same locations, but in A different order and under different circumstances I believe. I mean, you heard aeriths warning in the trailer. Be prepared for everything to be completely differ and don't be mad lol

 

[Eerie]

I mean, Aerith literally doesn't say that in any other language than English. "Let's not think about the past, but rather the future" is what she says. And the trailer 99% picks up and expands on OG lines.

 

[Roger]

Well, i think youre all wrong because honestly, I dont think this game is going in any direction we've ever seen...I think remake was about as close to the originals storyline as it will get. Now its time to go completely off the rails! That's just my opinion though. Of course they will encounter these same locations, but in A different order and under different circumstances I believe. I mean, you heard aeriths warning in the trailer. Be prepared for everything to be completely differ and don't be mad lol

The novel a tale of two pasts tells us that the crew is at least gonna get to Junon, use Shinra infantryman and sailor uniforms to smuggle onto to a ferry to Costa Del Sol. From there how different can the order be? Corel is the next closest thing geographically, Red wants to go home, Vincent is waiting in a coffin a Nibelheim beyond Cosmo Canyon and on the other side of the Nibel mountain we got Cid. We aren't gonna miss those guys. The logo hasn't changed, we still need to pick up the Black Materia and deliver it to Sephiroth in the Northern Crater. Gongaga will have new relevance given the Zack situation but the order isn't all that flexible.

 

[Fryguy07]

The novel a tale of two pasts tells us that the crew is at least gonna get to Junon, use Shinra infantryman and sailor uniforms to smuggle onto to a ferry to Costa Del Sol. From there how different can the order be? Corel is the next closest thing geographically, Red wants to go home, Vincent is waiting in a coffin a Nibelheim beyond Cosmo Canyon and on the other side of the Nibel mountain we got Cid. We aren't gonna miss those guys. The logo hasn't changed, we still need to pick up the Black Materia and deliver it to Sephiroth in the Northern Crater. Gongaga will have new relevance given the Zack situation but the order isn't all that flexible.

Ehhh...idk, maybe you're right but I get the jist that we are getting a totally new adventure. With a completely different ending. This is a parallel universe from the original and anything is possible.

 

[Golden Ear]

They could potential move when we visit Gongaga for example. Most of the time we got there after we get the Buggy from the Chocobo races in the Gold saucer and before we get to Cosmo Canyon. Since Rebirth is suggesting the potential for more Zack content, placing Gongaga before Nibelheim could act as a preliminary to the Zack mystery that could get further expanded upon for Cloud and Party in Nibelheim and the Nibel Reactor. There might be some Zack clues there that might be hinted at even more so than the OG.

I've also considered that we don't fully go to Gongaga until after the Temple of the Ancients when Cloud wakes up in a bed with Tifa and Barret asking him what the deal is with his psychotic episode. However, the only real benefit of them doing something like this is so we are able to get Vincent and Cid in our Party sooner and thus get their gameplay. Cid in Rocket town is already past halfway through the journey presumably so the sooner we get there the better, but then again it might not be that much of an issue.

I would say the eastern continent has the best chances of lining up just like the OG in terms of location order, but the Western continent can change up the order slightly to accommodate pacing of story and gameplay.

 

[cold_spirit]

Personally, one thing has been on my mind since the announcement of Remake: "How will they handle the world map?" I have a nostalgic connection to this question. The sense of adventure between Midgar and the Forgotten Capital is my favorite feeling from the original game. I find the pacing brilliant and the diverse scenarios to be fun and engaging. Plus the Main Theme of Final Fantasy never fails to take me back.

As such, I'm incredibly excited to see how Rebirth tackles this. And so is the development team it seems! Here's director Naoki Hamaguchi's thoughts on it from Remake's Ultimania (translation by @TurquoiseHammer):

Interviewer: I’m also curious about how you’ll reproduce the original game’s world map.

Hamaguchi: That’s another area we’ll be looking into going forward. The overarching goal with Final Fantasy VII was to let players experience Midgar, but next time we hope to create content where players can actually get a sense of Final Fantasy VII’s vast world. As far as presentation goes, I’d like to explore how we can deliver a dramatic story while also imparting a sense of the wider world.

And in recent times we have Nomura and Kitase commenting on Rebirth's vastness (translation by @aitaikimochi):

Interviewer: In that scene with Sephiroth, you can see that the distance to the destination is quite far. It seems like the maps are extrmely huge.

Nomura: I can't talk about that much yet, but it is very vast.
Kitase: I hope you can also recall the original as well. Once you left Midgar, you had a feeling of "well, where do we go now!?"

I originally thought the Remake Project would be pretty linear, but the responses above have ignited my imagination. I'm not a fan of open world games, nor do I think an open world would work with the planet's scale, but I'm a huge fan of "open areas". Bigger than the corridors of Remake, but smaller than the map of Final Fantasy XV. I wanna try and divide Rebirth into these open areas.

I imagine these areas to be big enough to hold two or three towns each. Additionally, between any two areas would be a dungeon. The dungeons would be linear and provide a challenge and a story beat before the party is allowed to move on to the next area. Here are the areas (orange circles) and dungeons I've imagined so far:



Note: After Rocket Town the party would acquire the Tiny Bronco. This would allow them to travel back to any previous area or continue the story at the Temple of the Ancients. Afterwards, the party would be moved to the northern continent for the final act.

I feel this is ideal. However, the recent interviews also imply that locations could be mixed up or temporarily omitted. As such, I need to make some cuts as Rebirth likely won't follow the original game perfectly.

I took the feedback from my last post in the other thread and started considering how the Gold Saucer could be streamlined. Perhaps instead of cutting North Corel, I cut everything afterwards instead. So we arrive at the Gold Saucer, Cait Sith joins the party, then Cloud is informed about the Key of the Ancients by Dio. After obtaining it, the party heads to the Temple of the Ancients and the story continues from there. It'd look like this:



And here's everything that would be moved to Part 3:
Gongaga
Cosmo Canyon / Cave of the Gi
Nibelheim / Shinra Manor (Vincent)
Mt Nibel
Rocket Town / Grassland (Cid)

I feel like the volume of content for Rebirth in this scenario is realistic. However, I would bemoan the loss of Vincent and Cid. It's not ideal for me personally, but it's a possibility I need to consider. Cosmo Canyon would be a loss as well. As a substitute I could see Aerith and Red XIII being used to fill in the party on the nature of the lifestream, but nothing would beat the real deal of seeing Bugenhagen's observatory ourselves.

It's hard for me to imagine where else they can make cuts if not the western continent. We know from Traces of Two Pasts that the party will board a cruise liner, presumably between Junon and Costa del Sol. I'm going to assume we travel across the eastern continent as usual seeing as Chocobo Bill makes a cameo in Intermission's ending, foreshadowing his involvement. And the poll above shows that most people think Rebirth will end somewhere in the northern continent. However, the northern continent is pretty small, there's really not too many ways to reorganize its content. That's why I feel like the western continent is the best candidate to be remixed, even if it does hurt to do so.

 

[Eerie]

Nope; I just don't see it.

- Gongaga: needs to be there for Aerith, so we're not getting it after her death
- Nibelheim: it would be stupid to get it *after* the Northern Crater AND the Lifestream scene.
- Vincent and Cid: we ARE getting them before Aerith dies, period.

What I think will be moved to the 3rd part:

- Fort Condor (obviously)
- Wutai (obviously)
- party members' quests (Corel mines, Cosmo Canyon MAY be moved entirely or just the dungeon)

I will say it because it seems to go over the heads of a lot of people BUT in FFVII what matters are the BONDS between the characters; so no party member is going to arrive after Aerith's death. I think we would gain immensely from having everyone actually interacting and bonding with her before she goes, which was not necessarily seen in the OG - yet they ALL mourn her.

So, I actually agree with your first map BUT I think some content will be cut inside the areas, like Barret will find some bullshit reason for us to not stop at Corel or the villagers will throw us out, and since I anticipate that the GS may entirely change, I'm not 100% sure we'll get Dyne this round.

 

[cold_spirit]

Ah yes. I've always been in the "Aerith will live" camp, so that opens the door for Vincent and Cid to meet her in Part 3 in my theories

 

[Wol]

When/where you guys think Zack will join the party? (or fight the party) It's gonna happen.

 

[Roundhouse]

I think he joins after the north crater stuff. But in terms of encountering the crew...hard to say, they might find a crafty way to do this without messing the Cloud arc up. Probably more likely that he'll be kept away until the north crater bit though.

 

[LNK]

When/where you guys think Zack will join the party? (or fight the party) It's gonna happen.

I still think he's technically dead, so it won't be till the final battle in the third game. He'll be a "lifestream warrior."

I will say it because it seems to go over the heads of a lot of people BUT in FFVII what matters are the BONDS between the characters; so no party member is going to arrive after Aerith's death. I think we would gain immensely from having everyone actually interacting and bonding with her before she goes, which was not necessarily seen in the OG - yet they ALL mourn her.

While I agree with you, I don't think saving Vincent for game 3 goes against that. He was totally optional in the OG.

 

[waw]

I still think he's technically dead, so it won't be till the final battle in the third game. He'll be a "lifestream warrior."

This is a fair assumption. Honestly the ending is kind of cagey right? Folks are wild with speculation as to what exactly Zack is doing and that is their intention. What holds me back on this is that Zack didn't need to be shown surviving his battle and picking up Cloud if we're doing an afterlife story with him. That's just really, purposefully, confusing. Not like Cloud's Nibelheim memories confusing either: but rather purposefully set up so the audience is confused and misled. That doesn't seem like our creators.

And here's everything that would be moved to Part 3:
Gongaga
Cosmo Canyon / Cave of the Gi
Nibelheim / Shinra Manor (Vincent)
Mt Nibel
Rocket Town / Grassland (Cid)

Thanks for the maps and work on this. I get where you're coming from and that streamlined nature would work really well in a lot of ways. Doubling back on Gold Saucer to find the Key to the Ancients was always a bit weird to me. That key could have literally been anywhere in the world, including a new location or even Wutai to make that sidequest lest of an optional sidequest. While i think the devs could play with this bit, I think story could really benefit from doing that.

That said, I think this cuts some seriously deep and emotional connections to the story. Vincent and Cid not being in Rebirth would decrease their connection to Aerith and the overall story as well as remove some fan favorites from a lot of play. If the story at all follows the OG like they've hinted, Cid leading the party but only joining in Part III would be really weird, I think. And not seeing Nibelheim after Cloud gives us the flashback seems odd, too.

Actually, what i could see getting cut is most of the Northern Crater stuffs. That tundra exploration and adventure could come in part III. All of that, with the memories and truth revealed and summoning Meteor could happen in the City of the Ancients. Escalating the game aroudn Aerith's death and matching it with the rest could work. Though I think the long cold trek after her death has a huge impact on how we feel about things. Getting to Icicle Inn and finding the story off her parents right after losing her is so powerful.

But, Rufus and the Highwind or something could move us into the Northern Crater for a teamed-up assault and we take that trek on foot later in Part III.

 

[KindOfBlue]

When/where you guys think Zack will join the party? (or fight the party) It's gonna happen.

I imagine Gongaga or Northern Crater would be the place for some kind of fight with Zack (I’d prefer the latter) and as far as actually joining party, I would guess either while Cloud is in Mideel or after the Lifestream leading up to the final battle against Shinra and Sephiroth

 

[LNK]

What holds me back on this is that Zack didn't need to be shown surviving his battle and picking up Cloud if we're doing an afterlife story with him. That's just really, purposefully, confusing.

For sure. They didn't need to do it this way to do an afterlife story with him, but that doesn't mean they can't, right? To me, it's not really confusing.

 

[Eerie]

Ah yes. I've always been in the "Aerith will live" camp, so that opens the door for Vincent and Cid to meet her in Part 3 in my theories

You still need Nibelheim to happen before the Northern Crater to make any sense tho. Literally the interesting thing about Nibelheim is to discover it before the Northern Crater happens, because you're like "WTF is happening man" before understanding that's Shinra behind it.

Also, the devs keep an eye on the timeline, and so we need to get Cid at the right moment, when Shinra pops up at Rocket town. Not to mention Sonon is literally a first draft of Cid's attacks, so it makes no sense to not get him in the next installment.

Aerith may live or die (I think it's the latter), we're not dropping Nibelheim and Rocket Town in Rebirth.

 

[Golden Ear]

Personally, one thing has been on my mind since the announcement of Remake: "How will they handle the world map?" I have a nostalgic connection to this question. The sense of adventure between Midgar and the Forgotten Capital is my favorite feeling from the original game. I find the pacing brilliant and the diverse scenarios to be fun and engaging. Plus the Main Theme of Final Fantasy never fails to take me back.

As such, I'm incredibly excited to see how Rebirth tackles this. And so is the development team it seems! Here's director Naoki Hamaguchi's thoughts on it from Remake's Ultimania (translation by @TurquoiseHammer):




And in recent times we have Nomura and Kitase commenting on Rebirth's vastness (translation by @aitaikimochi):




I originally thought the Remake Project would be pretty linear, but the responses above have ignited my imagination. I'm not a fan of open world games, nor do I think an open world would work with the planet's scale, but I'm a huge fan of "open areas". Bigger than the corridors of Remake, but smaller than the map of Final Fantasy XV. I wanna try and divide Rebirth into these open areas.

I imagine these areas to be big enough to hold two or three towns each. Additionally, between any two areas would be a dungeon. The dungeons would be linear and provide a challenge and a story beat before the party is allowed to move on to the next area. Here are the areas (orange circles) and dungeons I've imagined so far:

View attachment 12754

Note: After Rocket Town the party would acquire the Tiny Bronco. This would allow them to travel back to any previous area or continue the story at the Temple of the Ancients. Afterwards, the party would be moved to the northern continent for the final act.

I feel this is ideal. However, the recent interviews also imply that locations could be mixed up or temporarily omitted. As such, I need to make some cuts as Rebirth likely won't follow the original game perfectly.

I took the feedback from my last post in the other thread and started considering how the Gold Saucer could be streamlined. Perhaps instead of cutting North Corel, I cut everything afterwards instead. So we arrive at the Gold Saucer, Cait Sith joins the party, then Cloud is informed about the Key of the Ancients by Dio. After obtaining it, the party heads to the Temple of the Ancients and the story continues from there. It'd look like this:

View attachment 12755

And here's everything that would be moved to Part 3:
Gongaga
Cosmo Canyon / Cave of the Gi
Nibelheim / Shinra Manor (Vincent)
Mt Nibel
Rocket Town / Grassland (Cid)

I feel like the volume of content for Rebirth in this scenario is realistic. However, I would bemoan the loss of Vincent and Cid. It's not ideal for me personally, but it's a possibility I need to consider. Cosmo Canyon would be a loss as well. As a substitute I could see Aerith and Red XIII being used to fill in the party on the nature of the lifestream, but nothing would beat the real deal of seeing Bugenhagen's observatory ourselves.

It's hard for me to imagine where else they can make cuts if not the western continent. We know from Traces of Two Pasts that the party will board a cruise liner, presumably between Junon and Costa del Sol. I'm going to assume we travel across the eastern continent as usual seeing as Chocobo Bill makes a cameo in Intermission's ending, foreshadowing his involvement. And the poll above shows that most people think Rebirth will end somewhere in the northern continent. However, the northern continent is pretty small, there's really not too many ways to reorganize its content. That's why I feel like the western continent is the best candidate to be remixed, even if it does hurt to do so.

I would say that the visit Nibelheim and Mt. Nibel will be in Rebirth.

Some of the reasons why they may be shaking up the order is probably not only for flow of story but also just in terms of game development. If they have all ready developed Nibelheim and Mt. Nibel for the Flashback and presumably the Northern Crater illusion, then all of those assets are ready to go for when the party actually visits the place in person. Also I think it makes way more sense to have it included when much of Rebirth will revolve around Cloud's distorted memories of Nibelheim and the events that took place, arriving there mid game would be tying it together with the eventual mindfuck reveal at the Northren Crater. To me it makes no sense to not have it in Rebirth.

I understand your thinking in terms of playable characters and saving some for later though. A few thoughts on this:

-We could go through Nibelheim but the basement door where we get Vincent is locked or the room is unattainable somehow.

-We actually have Vincent revealed but he goes off on his own for now and is not playable until Part 3, possibly jumping into the story occasionally as AI.

-He joins us very similar to the OG and becomes playable.

I don't think it's out of the question to actually have all of the OG cast playable in rebirth. In Remake Part 1 we got 4 playable characters as well as a DLC in which we got playable Yuffie in her own couple of chapters. If we think of it as 4 new playable character (Red, Cait, Vincent, Cid) then that would feel like a natural expansion to what we got in Part 1 especially if Rebirth is going to be an even bigger game (possibly 30% bigger).

I don't think they necessarily have to save and market new playable characters for Part 3, the marketing could be focused on the inclusion of other things such as the Highwind and submarine (just for example, which I think they will actually make playable like the OG). With all the character's we have so far I think the marketing and reasoning to be excited for it would be just going further and deeper into those characters rather than introducing them.

However I have considered that Cait Sith, while definitely included in story could be a likely candidate for not being fully playable until Part 3 (like introduce his combat during Tifa and Barret's escape from Junon harbour). But I'm 50/50 on it. Another thought is we don't get playable Zack until Part 3 (or DLC between parts).

For places that will be saved for part 3 I would predict (besides obvious F.Condor + Wutai):

Any locations that have to do with the Huge Materia missions since they feature prominently after Meteor summon.
-Possibly the abandoned railroad and Mako Reactor between Costa de Sol to Gold Saucer.
-Possibly Rocket Town (hope not)

I still think the Party will meet the OG characters in the same locations so I think Cid will still be in Rocket Town and thus we still go there.

I admit it would be possible to save Cosmo Canyon for later. However, I think meeting Bugenhagen makes sense for halfway through Rebirth and I think his lore explanations will be something that is essential for explaining all the weird time stuff that is going on. Also, his eventual death will be more impactful than if he was introduced in part 3 where we wouldn't see him for too long before he croaks.

 

[LNK]

We could go through Nibelheim but the basement door where we get Vincent is locked or the room is unattainable somehow

This has been my thought. Then at the beginning of game 3, there can be a return to nibelheim, and we get him at that point.

 

[cold_spirit]

Ya'll don't have to work so hard to convince me that cutting those towns/characters is a bad idea I don't want it either!

What's fun about this mental exercise is realizing how essential every location is to the greater FFVII story. Gongaga hints at there being a spy and introduces Zack, Cosmo Canyon gives the player essential info on the world of FFVII, while Nibelheim and Rocket Town add fan favorite characters.

Fort Condor and Wutai are easy candidates for omission only because they were optional in the original. And maybe that's all the devs meant when they said that things could be out of order.

I agree that moving Vincent and Cid to Part 3 is a bit much. If we're including them no matter what, then I think Gongaga and Cosmo Canyon, basically the southern part of the western continent, are the next best candidates to be moved. For starters they're geographically close together. The storytellers only need to link the Gold Saucer to Nibelheim somehow, then both Gongaga and Cosmo Canyon are naturally skipped. I think that's more eloquent than skipping locations here and there throughout the game.

Additionally, neither Cosmo Canyon or Gongaga offer new playable characters, which appear to be the priority. Yes, Gongaga is important in the original game for bringing up Zack to Cloud, Tifa, and Aerith. However, it's merely the mention of Zack that shakes the characters, and I think there'll be many other opportunities to mention Zack throughout Rebirth. Cosmo Canyon would, again, be a real loss. What most people seem concerned about is losing the insight gained during the observatory scene, but again all that info could potentially be distributed throughout Rebirth.

Here's how it'd look. Very similar to the first, just some wording edits:



And here's everything that'd be moved to Part 3:
Fort Condor
Gongaga
Cosmo Canyon
Wutai