The OG+the Compilation

[Master Bates]

The story is not a love triangle lol what version of FFVII did you even play? lmao

And saying Aerith is dead is not treating her character like shit. She's dead because she died in the story. This isn't interpretation. That's literally what happened.

 

[BlankBeat]

The story is not a love triangle lol what version of FFVII did you even play? lmao

And saying Aerith is dead is not treating her character like shit. She's dead because she died in the story. This isn't interpretation. That's literally what happened.

Huh?

The OG gaming manual states there is a love triangle between Cloud, Aerith, and Tifa.

SE has also stated that who Cloud loves is up to play interpretation.

SE has also stated that Cloud "wavers" to both heroines at different points.

Aerith is entitled to a happy ending with Cloud. Just like Tifa.

Cloud returns to where he is "supposed" to be -- a flower field. I believe he will one day reunite with Aerith in a flower field.

You believe he will live happily ever after with Tifa and that Aerith can sit in the lifestream and be sad.

I guess you are OK with treating Aerith like shit but not Tifa? Weird.

 

[DutchDread]

“You are perfect for each other! Aerith's star and Cloud's star! They show a great future! ”

Cait sith was wrong, as evidence by the fact that Aerith died shortly after. If I remember correctly, it's even said that his predictions usually turn out wrong. Saying Aerith and Cloud belong together because some fortune cookie said so highlights how bad your argument is.

Oh, and btw, if we are gonna pretend to get things like "star crossed lovers" from this kind of nonsense, I'd like to point out that the "promise" scene with Tifa takes place under the stars (hell, there is even a falling star if I remember correctly), just like when they confirm their feelings in the Highwind scene, aka, underneath the stars )

Note: I think these arguments are absurd, but if you can make them up, so can I, oh here is one.
"Cloud makes Tifa a promise, obvious that means she's his "promised land", come on guys, it's common sense, don't you see the symbolism?"
Honestly, that one is more convincing than most of the ones I am hearing here.

I agree with you that Aerith is extremely important to the external plot of FF7. Her fate is directly tied to the fate of the Planet, that is true. However, you seem to forget another "main narrative" — our hero, Cloud's. The single biggest plot twist in the story is the truth of Cloud's identity. Aerith's death scene is iconic, yes, but the Lifestream sequence is the reveal from which all other puzzle pieces begin to fall into place. Cloud's hero's journey as the protagonist of FF7 and discovering his real identity is just as important to the narrative as the fate of the Planet. We (the audience) wouldn't care about the fate of the Planet if we didn't care about the people who live on it first.

The plot twist that is Cloud's identity ties directly into the role of Aerith as a love interest. You are right (for the wrong reasons) that the game pushes you toward Aerith first — why is that? To heighten the impact of her death, yes, but also because she plays right into the fallacy of Cloud's SOLDIER persona. You say it's because Aerith and Cloud are "star-crossed lovers," but why would Square tell that story then make you realize that Cloud was not himself during that time?

Furthermore, why would Square then tell you that Cloud joined SOLDIER to impress Tifa? Why would they tell you that he made a promise to be her hero then created a SOLDIER persona out of his clusterfucked memories when he met her again 7 years later? Why was Tifa the one who dove into the deepest recesses of Cloud's mind to piece him back together? Why was Tifa the catalyst for Cloud's journey to begin?

Because that was the point. Cloud admits, after he regains his real identity, that he was living in an illusion before. An illusion he created in his mind to cope with his own failures and weaknesses (which were directly tied to desire to impress Tifa.)

Aerith's role as a love interest is a part of that illusion. That doesn't mean their bond was any less real, but that the romantic aspect of it was always just that — a fantasy, never to be realized. SOLDIER!Cloud might've wanted to live in that fantasy, but real!Cloud says, “I can’t remain trapped in an illusion anymore. I’m going to live my life without pretending.”

FF7 is not a tragic love story about star-crossed lovers as you seem to think is such "common sense." Titanic (great movie as it is) has no purpose in this discussion because, frankly, Titanic has nothing in common with FF7.

I am really clinging onto the hope that you're debating in good faith because I genuinely think this is an interesting discussion. It seems there are several people here attempting to meet you halfway and yet for some reason you won't extend the same courtesy to them. We're all speaking our opinions here, backed up by evidence as needed.

Again, this is 100% correct, are you me?

If what you say is correct, that Cloud's love for Aerith was part of the "illusion," why does SE show REAL Cloud trying to reunite with Aerith in flower fields and in numerous cameos?

They don't, they show Aerith living on in the memories of her friends. This is not an argument, this is just you asserting that they belong together in different words, again without evidence.

The flower fields Cloud rides his motorcycle through in ACC are still stated to represent Aerith (ie: the same flower fields Cloud returns to at the end of Dissidia -- the place where Cloud is "supposed to be.")

Only, it is canonically stated that Clouds promised land, the place where he's supposed to be, is with Tifa.

Y'all are the ones claiming Cloud and Tifa are an official couple. Y'all use the family and kids as your proof. But this family includes Barret, Marlene is Barret's daughter, and Cloud believes Aerith brought him Denzel.

No, he believes Aerith brought Denzel to him and Tifa, as evidenced by the fact that he smiles when she corrects them.

Cloud still wants it to be Aerith reaching for him at the very end of the game. This is expressed again in AC during the "homage" where Cloud and Aerith finally lock hands.

Cloud wants it to be Aerith. Cloud prefers Aerith.

Even if Cloud "ends up" with Tifa, he still wishes it was Aerith. That's why Tifa is jealous.

I don't believe in soulmates and I'm pretty sure the person who created Cloud, Aerith and Tifa doesn't believe in them either.

This is again not evidence, just you again asserting things without evidence, you don't know why he reached for Aerith there, and it's simply a weird interpretation because I would have reached for Aerith there as well.


Then again, just asserting your premise instead of proving it,
Here is my counter: "Cloud wants it to be Tifa, Cloud prefers Tifa.

Even if Cloud had ended up with Aerith, he'd have preferred it to be Tifa".

Point is -- I have heard casual Cloti fans say that if Aerith lives in the Remake, Cloud won't end up with Tifa. I think that is 100% accurate.

Do you honestly think Cloud would end up with Tifa if Aerith lives?

SE has confirmed Cloud wavers between Aerith and Tifa. This is when they're alive, Cloud is not himself, and has lost a part of his memories.
So Clouds is presented as not being able to choose during that one week, the girls are presented as having a 50-50 chance, in that one week, with Clouds actions determining who he favors in that one week.

Then AFTER that one week Cloud
1: Cloud regains memories of his love for Tifa.
2: Cloud discovers that during his time with Aerith he was living an illusion of being her ex.
3: Cloud spends hundreds of weeks interacting with just Tifa.

From the fact that it was 50-50 before, it follows logically and necessarily that it's not 50-50 after. And had Aerith lived and Cloud figured out the truth, there would not have been a snowballs chance in hell of him choosing Aerith over Tifa, to use your words. It's common sense. And better than that, it's backed up mathematically.

There is a reason the resolution to Clouds identity crisis arc comes from his feelings towards Tifa, why this is something that is shown AFTER Aeriths death. There is a reason why the game shows that Cloud is channeling SPECIFICALLY Aeriths ex, and not someone else.

The "love triangle" was never meant to exist for longer than that one week, it was a narrative device, there is zero evidence of it existing in the actual plot.

Pictures speak a thousand words.

And yet in those thousand words, those pictures say nothing to back up your argument.

Luckily, the Remake is correcting the record. Aerith states in the Remake that she wants to move "FORWARD" with her life in regards to Zack.

HAHA, you mean the scene where she's visually suffering? The scene that literally proves Aerith is not over Zack? Boy are you in for a rude awakening on that one.
The games are about moving on though, but if you think that helps your case about Cloud being hung up on Aerith, well, guess that awakening is gonna be even ruder.

 

[LNK]

Winning cuz the other person died isn't really winning.

Is love and happiness a competition?

I guess it's OK to treat Aerith like shit

How is any of us treating her like shit? From what I've seen, its the opposite.

But given that this is a love triangle, I'm also free to believe that Cloud's heart will always belong to Aerith, and that they will one day reunite in the Promised Land.

The only difference, is in the ending of ACC/reunion files leads us to believe that T&C get back together. You using Dissidia and WoFF as any king of evidence is pointless when talking about canon.

https://flaregamer.com/b2article.php?p=122&more=1

I'm simply providing evidence to support that Cloud loves Aerith and you simply can't handle it.

Who said that Cloud didn't love Aerith?

 

[Master Bates]

Huh?

The OG gaming manual states there is a love triangle between Cloud, Aerith, and Tifa.

SE has also stated that who Cloud loves is up to play interpretation.

SE has also stated that Cloud "wavers" to both heroines at different points.

Aerith is entitled to a happy ending with Cloud. Just like Tifa.

Cloud returns to where he is "supposed" to be -- a flower field. I believe he will one day reunite with Aerith in a flower field.

You believe he will live happily ever after with Tifa and that Aerith can sit in the lifestream and be sad.

I guess you are OK with treating Aerith like shit but not Tifa? Weird.

FFVII's story has elements of a love triangle but is itself NOT a love triangle. It is a story of a boy learning to make peace with his failures and accepting who he is.

Aerith dies, does useful shit with the lifestream for a time, then moves on and lets her consciousness dissolve in the lifestream. She is not going to hang out in the lifestream forever. For her to do so would run counter to her character arc and disrespectful to her role as a Cetra.

That is not treating her character like shit. On the contrary, that is putting much respect to her character by acknowledging her accidental sacrifice for the planet (and its inhabitants) that she chose to save.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

No, dead people don't get to have happy endings with living people.
The whole point of Aerith is that her ending wasn't happy. It was sudden, and shocking, and too soon, and she didn't get to live the life she'd dreamed of.
Aerith as a character is about so much more than Cloud and being Cloud's love interest. In her life, Cloud was just a side story to the main event: her essential role as a Cetra in saving the planet.

 

[BlankBeat]

@DutchDread -- I thought you didn't want to debate me? LOL.

Cait sith was wrong, as evidence by the fact that Aerith died shortly after. If I remember correctly, it's even said that his predictions turned out wrong. Saying Aerith and Cloud belong together because some fortune cookie said so highlights how bad your argument is.

Who said Cait Sith was reliable?

I'm saying that SE specifically wrote Cait Sith's lines to foreshadow an impeding star-crossed romance. The reliability argument is irrelevant.

They don't, they show Aerith living on in the memories of her friends. This is not an argument, this is just you asserting that they belong together in different words, again without evidence.

Cloud reunites with "Tactics" Aerith in Final Fantasy Tactics.

Final Fantasy Tactics:
Cloud: “My fingers are tingling… My eyes…they’re burning.”
Final Fantasy VII:
Cloud: “My fingers are tingling. My mouth is dry. My eyes are burning!”

Final Fantasy Tactics:
Cloud: “What about this pain…”
Final Fantasy VII:
Cloud: “What about US… what are WE supposed to do? What about my pain?”

Final Fantasy Tactics:
Cloud: “Must go…to the Promised Land.”
Final Fantasy VII:
Cloud: “The Promised Land…I think I can meet her… there.”

Only, it is canonically stated that Clouds promised land, the place where he's supposed to be, is with Tifa.

“The place where he awakens. That is Cloud’s Promised Land……”
~Final Fantasy VII 10th Anniversary Ultimania; Square Enix

Cloud awakes in Aerith’s Church where he shares a spiritual connection with her. The *PLACE* Cloud awakes [Aerith’s Church] is his Promised Land — his supreme happiness.

According to Aerith, ones Promised Land is a *FEELING* one gets:

“You search and travel, until you feel it. Like you just know, …this is the Promised Land.”
~Aerith; Maiden Who Travels the Planet

When Cloud saw Aerith reaching down to him at the end of Final Fantasy VII, Cloud *FELT* his Promised Land. He says so: “An answer from the Planet… the Promised Land… I think I can meet her… there.”

Then, in Advent Children, Cloud can also find Aerith in her Church. Her Church is another place where Cloud has *FELT* his Promised Land. In other words, Cloud *FELT* his Promised Land in two places — the lifestream and Aerith’s Church. Why? Because he can find Aerith in both places. Aerith brings him his feeling of “supreme happiness” — the feeling required to find one’s Promised Land.

To determine what causes Cloud to *FEEL* his Promised Land, his statement at the end of FFVII and Square Enix’s statement about Cloud’s Promised Land being in Aerith’s Church can’t contradict each other. What is the one similarity between Cloud’s statement at the end of Final Fantasy VII and SE’s statement about Cloud’s Promised Land in Advent Children? Finding Aerith.

Whether it’s Aerith’s Church or the lifestream, it is wherever Cloud can find Aerith that is stated to be Cloud’s Promised Land. Both Cloud and Square Enix say this.

Cloud’s Promised Land obviously can’t be his friends and family because Cloud has already stated he has a Promised Land in the lifestream with Aerith. Once Cloud is done living with his friends and family, and is finally meant to join the lifestream, he will return the Promised Land Aerith speaks of in MoT and Cloud speaks of at the end of Final Fantasy VII. In other words, both times Cloud got the feeling that is required for a Promised Land have been in Aerith’s presence. SHE is the common denominator. SHE is the only way both statements regarding Cloud’s Promised Land don’t contradict each other.

No, he believes Aerith brought Denzel to him and Tifa, as evidenced by the fact that he smiles when she corrects them.

Or he's just trying to not make Tifa feel bad.

Cloud's first instinct was to associate Denzel with Aerith. I'll go by Cloud's first instinct, not Tifa's.

This is again not evidence, just you again asserting things without evidence, you don't know why he reached for Aerith there, and it's simply a weird interpretation because I would have reached for Aerith there as well.

SE says the scene in AC is "homage" to the scene in FFVII.

Cloud was so close to locking hands with Aerith in FFVII, and then finally locks hands with her in AC.

And yes -- you are correct. Everything I've written is MY interpretation. You don't have to agree with my interpretation. You don't have to think my interpretation has valid reasoning.

But guess what? Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one.

If you don't agree with my opinion, so be it. But no one made you the Judge Judy of the LTD. You aren't the ultimate decider on what is sufficient evidence and what is sufficient reasoning.

I'm expressing my opinion in the LTD thread. If my opinion isn't good enough for you, too bad.

SE has confirmed Cloud wavers between Aerith and Tifa. This is when they're alive, Cloud is not himself, and has lost a part of his memories.

So that's why in Cosmo Canyon real Cloud states he remembers Aerith "a lot"?

There is a reason the resolution to Clouds identity crisis arc comes from his feelings towards Tifa, why this is something that is shown AFTER Aeriths death. There is a reason why the game shows that Cloud is channeling SPECIFICALLY Aeriths ex, and not someone else.

2: Cloud discovers that during his time with Aerith he was living an illusion of being her ex.

I thought the (fake) Cloud nonsense had stopped?

If all of Cloud's interactions with Aerith are tainted because of Zack, why would Cloud feel guilt towards her death?

If Cloud was Zack, wouldn't that suggest Cloud should feel nothing towards Aerith because everything he ever did or said to her was tainted because of Zack? Do you honestly think SE agrees with that assessment?

I guess SE created an entire star-crossed romance between Cloud and Aerith and want us to go "oh, that was just Zack!"

Really...!?!?

Why is Cloud guilty in AC if he was Zack?

It just doesn't make any sense what-so-ever.

Aerith:
......first off, it bothered me how you looked exactly alike.
Two completely different people, but look exactly the same.
The way you walk, gesture...
I think I must have seen him again, in you...
But you're different.
Things are different.

"Things" are different. Aerith now likes Cloud for Cloud.

At the end of the day, Cloud wasn't Zack. He adopted a few memories from a specific moment in time and that was it. There was no transformation.

Cloud is emo and introverted. Zack is happy and outgoing. Cloud retains his emo and introverted personality during disc 1.

Furthermore, Cloud didn't recognize Aerith. If Cloud was Zack, why didn't he recognize Aerith?

Are we saying literally everything Cloud did during disc 1 is somehow tainted because of Zack?

Are we saying disc 1 Cloud was actually Zack? Where is this stated by SE?

From the fact that it was 50-50 before, it follows logically and necessarily that it's not 50-50 after. And had Aerith lived and Cloud figured out the truth, there would not have been a snowballs chance in hell of him choosing Aerith over Tifa, to use your words. It's common sense.

If there isn't a "snowballs chance in hell" of Cloud choosing Aerith if she had lived, why is Tifa so jealous?

The "love triangle" was never meant to exist for longer than that one week, it was a narrative device, there is zero evidence of it existing in the actual plot.

Typical. Minimizing and diminishing Cloud and Aerith's relationship by saying they only knew each other for a week. Would SE agree that their relationship is somehow "lesser" due to only knowing each other for a short amount of time?

TBH -- the fact that such a deep and long-lasting connection developed between Cloud and Aerith in such a short amount of time is FURTHER proof of how much Aerith means to Cloud.

Besides, star-crossed romances are supposed to happen fast and hard, and then abruptly end in tragedy. That's literally the entire point.

Furthermore, Cloud and Aerith's star-crossed romance plays out during the longest and best disc of the game.

Then, later, after Cloud regains all of his memories, he states he remembers Aerith "a lot" in Cosmo Canyon. If Cloud was Zack during disc 1, why would he remember Aerith "a lot"?

And yet in those thousand words, those pictures say nothing to back up your argument.

Cloud returns to where he is "supposed" to be -- a flower field. We then see Cloud riding through flower fields that represent Aerith at the very end of AC/C.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

You know, you're right, Blankbeat. If someone close you is brutally murdered right before your eyes, and you feel that you're responsible for failing to prevent it, you very quickly forget all about them unless they are your soul-mate. There's no other reason why you'd ever remember them.

 

[BlankBeat]

You know, you're right, Blankbeat. If someone close you is brutally murdered right before your eyes, and you feel that you're responsible for failing to prevent it, you very quickly forget all about them unless they are your soul-mate. There's no other reason why you'd ever remember them.

Yet Cloud is in a love triangle with said person & "wavers" to her at certain points.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

He wavers towards her and then wavers away again.

Actually, I'm not quite sure what we're debating here. Could you state your thesis unequivocally? Is it

- Aerith is one of Cloud's true romantic loves
- Aerith is Cloud's only true romantic love
- If Aerith had lived, she and Cloud would be together
- Aerith and Cloud are soul-mates (can you define soul-mate?)
- Tifa was never as important to Cloud as Aerith was and continues to be
- Cloud romantically loves Tifa, but he romantically loves Aerith more
- Cloud was never and is never in a romantic relationship with Tifa, only a platonic one

Or some combination of those statements?

 

[BlankBeat]

He wavers towards her and then wavers away again.

That's why he rides his motorcycle through flower fields stated to represent Aerith at the end of AC/C? Weird.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I edited my previous post.

 

[Master Bates]

You know, you're right, Blankbeat. If someone close you is brutally murdered right before your eyes, and you feel that you're responsible for failing to prevent it, you very quickly forget all about them unless they are your soul-mate. There's no other reason why you'd ever remember them.

This doesn't really sit well with me.

Every time I look at our current dog, Bertholdt Woofer, I always remember our old dog, Scoobaldie (who came to us hungry and bald, hence, the name). Scoobaldie died because he accidentally ingested muriatic acid from a bottle that my mother had unwittingly left open in the bathroom floor when she was cleaning. We failed to notice right away that he was in pain and so he died before we could get him to the VET.

That was still back in high school and I cried a lot. He had been with us for 6 years and he was suddenly gone. I still get reminded of him and I always feel sad and miserable because I feel like I could've done more... if only I paid attention enough.

Does this mean Scoobaldie is my soulmate? Was I a furry all this time without me knowing? Is that why it took years before I again took another dog because the memory of losing Scoobaldie was too much? Does that mean I love my Bertholdt Woofer less? Is he really just a replacement, and that when I die I will eventually meet Scoobaldie in furry heaven?

 

[BlankBeat]

I edited my previous post.

All the above!

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

But some of them are mutually contradictory.

 

[BlankBeat]

But some of them are mutually contradictory.

Oh.

 

[DutchDread]

Oh.

You know what? I have a question, because I've been trying to wrap my head around how your brain works, and failing.

You keep talking about how Cloud believes Aerith brought Denzel to him. And from your tone I gather that you think that means something, that he's still in love with Aerith, or that they're gonna be together, or something, I'm not sure.

Now I can imagine using that line as evidence for Tifa and Cloud belonging together, but how do you get from "Cloud thinks Aerith brought Denzel to him" to "therefore, Cloud and Aerith"?

What is the thought pattern you're imagining there?
Aerith knows Tifa and Cloud are raising a family together. Are you suggesting that Aerith thought "well, I am going to send him a child to raise so that he can abandon said child with Tifa and go look for me in the promised land"?
Is that what you think Cloud is thinking? "Aerith sent me this child, this must mean I should abandon my duties as a father".

"I am raising a child with Tifa, now Aerith sent me another child, she must be telling me that I am NOT supposed to be in a family?"

Seriously, what are you imagining there? How are your eyes seeing one thing, and your brain telling you the exact opposite?

I think an explanation as to how evidence works is required here. The way to prove a claim is correct is not by looking for things that fall in line with your claim, that's how every religion ever got started, it's a basic logical fallacy.
If you want to prove that your claim is true and not ours (to the extent that that's possible), you need to provide evidence that fits with your claim, BUT which would not ALSO be true if your claim were false. So far, the only things you've said that weren't different types of assertions or conjecture, were things that were true whether Cloud likes Aerith or not.

It helps if you imagine "what if the opposite is true, would this still make sense?" In this case, if we imagine Cloud is totally over Aerith, is madly in love with Tifa, and has no feelings left for Aerith besides feelings of guilt, would it still make sense for him to think Aerith sent that kid to him?

And the answer is yes! In fact, it makes more sense in every way.
It works because it's Aerith indicating that he should be with his fmaily.
It works because Cloud himself states that he thinks this might be a way to relieve him of guilt.
It works because why the hell would Aerith send a child to doomed family?

In every respect, Denzel being brought to Cloud by Aerith would indicate he belongs where he is, so, why do you keep bringing it up as if it works in your favor?

 

[BlankBeat]

Thank you Judge Judy!!

Cloud and Tifa are raising a family while Barret is off on a journey.

Marlene is Barret's daughter (ie: once Barret returns, he is --yet again-- Marlene's father figure).

Cloud finds Denzel at Aerith's Church.

Tifa "corrects" Cloud, and he lets her correction stand because she has already gotten jealous of Cloud visiting Aerith's grave. He's being nice.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

None of us are trying to argue that Aerith wasn't really important to Cloud. We all know that she was probably one of the three or four most important people in his life. Blankbeat, you seem to be trying to argue that Aerith dead matters more to Cloud than all the living people who love him and need him. And I don't think Aerith herself would approve of that. Your argument is turning him into the kind of man a woman like Aerith could not love.

 

[BlankBeat]

Nope.

People are saying Cloud only knew Aerith for a week (so it was meaningless), and that Cloud was Zack the whole time.

 

[DutchDread]

Thank you Judge Judy!!

Cloud and Tifa are raising a family while Barret is off on a journey.

Marlene is Barret's daughter (ie: once Barret returns, he is --yet again-- Marlene's father figure).

Cloud finds Denzel at Aerith's Church.

Tifa "corrects" Cloud, and he lets her correction stand because she has already gotten jealous of Cloud visiting Aerith's grave. He's being nice.

So you couldn't answer my question and once again decided to waste our time with an assertion instead.

The line "he lets her correction stand because she has already gotten jealous of Cloud visiting Aerith's grave. He's being nice" is functionally identical to just saying "my proof that Cloud likes Aerith is that Cloud likes Aerith". It's just you wasting your time repeating your claim instead of substantiating it.


But more important than that I need to restate this, YOU didn't answer my question!
How did your mind go from "Aerith sent Denzel to Cloud", therefore "Aerith want's CLoud to abandon said child and go looking for Aerith in the promised land"?

People are saying Cloud only knew Aerith for a week (so it was meaningless), and that Cloud was Zack the whole time.

Nope, strawman, you are again pretending that there are only absolutes, when truth is in the middle, in the nuance.
Just because something isn't true eternal love doesn't mean that it's meaningless, and no one is saying it is, and no one is saying that Cloud is Zack.
If you keep addressing what you THINK people are saying instead of what they're actually saying, you continue to be wrong about everything, forever.

And Cloud DID only know Aerith for about a week, that's just simply a canonical fact, your feelings don't change facts.
Infact, that's us being generous, because really, he never knew her at all, FAKE Cloud knew her.

 

[BlankBeat]

FFVII creator Kazushige Nojima speaks of a premise that things “won’t go well” between Cloud and Tifa:

“Episode Tifa [Case of Tifa] – First off, there’s the premise that things won’t go well between Tifa and Cloud, and that even without geostigma or Sephiroth, this might be the same.“​

~Nojima; On the Way to a Smile interview; Square Enix​

Did you catch that last bit?

Even without circumstances such as geostigma and Sephiroth, things still probably wouldn’t have gone well between Cloud and Tifa. This means Cloud and Tifa’s issues likely have nothing to do with geostigma or Sephiroth.

Interestingly, the two times Cloud and Tifa fight in Case of Tifa revolve around Aerith – the woman Tifa is constantly jealous over.

The first fight between Cloud and Tifa is after Cloud visits Aerith’s grave. The second fight is after Cloud visits Aerith’s Church. Tifa has a BIG problem with Cloud visiting places where he connects with Aerith.

It seems the issue that continually complicates Cloud and Tifa’s relationship is Aerith; NOT geostigma or Sephiroth. One only has to look at the two fights Cloud and Tifa have during Case of Tifa, both of which revolve around Aerith.

Unfortunately for Cloti fans, Cloud and Tifa’s “relationship” doesn’t go well:

​

Nojima:​

“…there’s a premise that things won’t go well between Tifa and Cloud, and that even without geostigma or Sephiroth, this might be the same.”​

Case of Tifa proves Cloud and Tifa aren’t compatible due to factors NOT associated with either geostigma or Sephiroth. The only other factor is Aerith – Tifa’s “love rival.”

PS:

You keep telling me to reply to your points yet you haven't replied to numerous responses of mine.

Here you go again -- acting like Judge Judy.

 

[BlankBeat]

Nope, strawman, you are again pretending that there are only absolutes, when truth is in the middle, in the nuance.
Just because something isn't true eternal love doesn't mean that it's meaningless, and no one is saying it is, and no one is saying that Cloud is Zack.
If you keep addressing what you THINK people are saying instead of what they're actually saying, you continue to be wrong about everything, forever.

And Cloud DID only know Aerith for about a week, that's just simply a canonical fact, your feelings don't change facts.
Infact, that's us being generous, because really, he never knew her at all, FAKE Cloud knew her.

Typical. Minimizing and diminishing Cloud and Aerith's relationship by saying they only knew each other for a week. Would SE agree that their relationship is somehow "lesser" due to only knowing each other for a short amount of time?

TBH -- the fact that such a deep and long-lasting connection developed between Cloud and Aerith in such a short amount of time is FURTHER proof of how much Aerith means to Cloud.

Besides, star-crossed romances are supposed to happen fast and hard, and then abruptly end in tragedy. That's literally the entire point.

Furthermore, Cloud and Aerith's star-crossed romance plays out during the longest and best disc of the game.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

1. Just because things don't go well between two people, it doesn't follow that they're not in love, or not soul-mates. Some of the greatest loves in history have been between two people for whom things did not go well. For example, Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton. It's naive to think that 'true love' means a couple won't have issues - sometimes even to the point of breaking up. Soul-mates can fight.

2. If Tifa is jealous of Aerith, how does that prove that Cloud loves Aerith more than Tifa? People can be greatly loved and still feel jealous and insecure.

 

[DutchDread]

FFVII creator Kazushige Nojima speaks of a premise that things “won’t go well” between Cloud and Tifa:

“Episode Tifa [Case of Tifa] – First off, there’s the premise that things won’t go well between Tifa and Cloud, and that even without geostigma or Sephiroth, this might be the same.“​

~Nojima; On the Way to a Smile interview; Square Enix​

Did you catch that last bit?

Even without circumstances such as geostigma and Sephiroth, things still probably wouldn’t have gone well between Cloud and Tifa. This means Cloud and Tifa’s issues likely have nothing to do with geostigma or Sephiroth.

Interestingly, the two times Cloud and Tifa fight in Case of Tifa revolve around Aerith – the woman Tifa is constantly jealous over.

The first fight between Cloud and Tifa is after Cloud visits Aerith’s grave. The second fight is after Cloud visits Aerith’s Church. Tifa has a BIG problem with Cloud visiting places where he connects with Aerith.

It seems the issue that continually complicates Cloud and Tifa’s relationship is Aerith; NOT geostigma or Sephiroth. One only has to look at the two fights Cloud and Tifa have during Case of Tifa, both of which revolve around Aerith.

Unfortunately for Cloti fans, Cloud and Tifa’s “relationship” doesn’t go well:

​

Nojima:​

“…there’s a premise that things won’t go well between Tifa and Cloud, and that even without geostigma or Sephiroth, this might be the same.”​

Case of Tifa proves Cloud and Tifa aren’t compatible due to factors NOT associated with either geostigma or Sephiroth. The only other factor is Aerith – Tifa’s “love rival.”

PS:

You keep telling me to reply to your points yet you haven't replied to numerous responses of mine.

Here you go again -- acting like Judge Judy.

Unfortunately, he also said that things might also not have gone well with Aerith. But no, I won't adress all your thousands of diversion tactics. Throwing poop all over the walls takes less time than cleaning it up. If you say 20 things, then when I respond to them change the subject to 20 others things in an attempt to avoid having to admit that you were wrong about the 20 earlier things, then I am not gonna just sit back and let you.
Nor am I gonna pretend that my not diving headlong into all 1000 of your 1000 unrelated questions is similar to you not answering my single one.

Answer my question.

How did your mind go from "Aerith sent Denzel to Cloud", therefore "Aerith want's CLoud to abandon said child and go looking for Aerith in the promised land"?

2. If Tifa is jealous of Aerith, how does that prove that Cloud loves Aerith more than Tifa? People can be greatly loved and still feel jealous and insecure.

This has already been proven to him, he's well aware that it's a faulty argument, he keep bringing it up anyway.