The Winner of Our Discontent — 2016 U.S. Election Results Discussion

[ForceStealer]

Flawless post, X.

 

[AvecAloes]

X. If I could kiss your face right now, I would.

 

[Jason Tandro]

@Jason: You're acting like people can be more complex than just being bigoted. I'm sure there's an idiot or two who voted Trump because they actually don't even watch the News or something, but that's about it.

Dawn, I realize this is maybe not want you want to hear right now but bigotry is not the end-all, be-all of a person. It is endemic of greater issues of their upbringing and society and are the worst hallmarks of a human but they do not (necessarily) make up the entirety of the person. Assuming that every bigot out there lives their lives with literally nothing in their lives apart from hatred is far too simplistic. And most bigots out there honestly wouldn't consider themselves bigoted because they fall under the ignorantly racist not the hatefully racist.

A quote, if you will, from "When Constabulary Duty's To Be Done" from The Pirates of Penzance:

When a felons not engaged in his employment (his employment)
Or concocting his felonious little plans (little plans)
His capacity for innocent enjoyment ('cent enjoyment)
Is just as great as any honest man's (honest man's)



Furthermore, that's not even the point I was making, but merely mirroring the point that others made that while bigotry may explain a great chunk of Trump Supporters, assuming that the wholesale voterbase for Trump are ignorant hate-filled scum is, again, too simplistic.

We're not ignoring anything I promise you that, but blanket judgment will not help us get to the bottom of this.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

Hell, the whole REASON that this election cycle and the fallout from it are so incredibly emotionally and ideologically painful, and we were stuck picking between the two least popular options ever is because of the two-party system digging the trenches on each side SO deeply. It's also the reason that Bernie Sanders got such huge support, because there is a growing understanding that it's the system itself that's contributing to the divisive nature of our politics. That's because the FPTP democratic system ALWAYS transforms into entrenched two-party system where neither side ever gets to support a candidate that they truly believe in AND both sides actually have to move AWAY from their ideologies to extremisms they dislike to cling to the few things that they do care about. (video explanation of those mechanics).


It's a really long road to go from Contempt to Contention to Objectivity – and nearly impossible to do when things are emotionally influenced. It's one of the first things that you learn when studying the psychology of argumentation is that as soon as the other side gets emotional – your chances of objectivity and reaching a meaningful consensus on both sides absolutely plummets, and that's precisely what a two-party political system does, and we have a voting system that GUARANTEES IT. That's why I make a point that coming together to correct this shit is so important, especially because of this year's election.




X

 

[Unit-01]

Great post X.

 

[Tennyo]

I have nothing to add after X's glorious post besides this:

 

[AvecAloes]

Tbh, they both look ridiculously dissatisfied in this picture

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Apparently Trump was like that all day. He apparently got a huge info dump during his visit to the White House that's making him more and more aware that this shit ain't a game.

 

[Tetsujin]

 

[AvecAloes]

Has he seen how much every single president before him has aged over the span of just a few years?!

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Has he seen how much every single president before him has aged over the span of just a few years?!

While I don't think he actually believes a lot of the shit that came out of his mouth for the past year, for other reasons, Donald Trump is a piece of shit as a person.

However, if

And this is a pretty big if here...

...If, Donald Trump sees the weight of the entire free world on his shoulders and actually mans the fuck up and tries to do a good job, and by extension, try to be a better person, that would be good. He wouldn't be person of the year or some shit like that, but if this gives him some humility, that would be good.

 

[Random Nobody]

...If, Donald Trump sees the weight of the entire free world on his shoulders and actually mans the fuck up and tries to do a good job, and by extension, try to be a better person, that would be good. He wouldn't be person of the year or some shit like that, but if this gives him some humility, that would be good.

 

[ForceStealer]

I've often wondered if that "infodump" is a major reason behind many candidates' failure to deliver on campaign promises.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

...If, Donald Trump sees the weight of the entire free world on his shoulders and actually mans the fuck up and tries to do a good job, and by extension, try to be a better person, that would be good. He wouldn't be person of the year or some shit like that, but if this gives him some humility, that would be good.

No, but it's possible.

I'm not COUNTING ON THIS SHIT mind you, but like I said, Trump had this real solemn look on his face all day today after his visit to the White House. Something shook him, and maybe he'll attempt to take the shit seriously.

I've often wondered if that "infodump" is a major reason behind many candidates' failure to deliver on campaign promises.

I'd say majorly so, or rather a big contributor to it. Every level in an organization/collective/civilization above 'regular ass civilian' gives you a ton of information and with it, a sense of perspective that you ever can't take back.

Hell, even since joining the military I've seen and found out things that make me feel real fucking stupid for seeing things a certain way before I joined.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Oh, to clarify, I am in no way saying that being in the military is 'above' being a civilian, I just used that as an example of any profession or position that gives you a wealth of perspective and information that you wouldn't have otherwise.

 

[Unit-01]

 

[Ghost X]

Trump's rise -- at its root -- is a result of corruption of the system. Being distracted by products of that system, like bigotry, will not fix the system, which will only lead to far worse things (worse forms of bigotry, for instance ). Not saying we should drop the attacks on bigotry all together, one can work on both issues, but we must concentrate on fixing the corrupt system. I even see corruption now as a greater threat to humanity than climate change. Imminent nuclear war could be an effect of this corruption.

The USA isn't the only country the far-right is rising in, so one simply can't argue USA-centric issues are to blame, when the common denominator is a Neoliberal mediatised political system, which serves power-hungry plutocrats. The solution? A legislated wall of separation between moneyed interests and the government and media (as in, they must all be divided from each other). It'll encourage the government and media to serve the people's interests, providing a good education system (leading to critical thought as opposed to monological conspiratorial thought), and with a functioning fourth estate in place, an informed public and power being held to account will result.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Trump's rise -- at its root -- is a result of corruption of the system. Being distracted by products of that system, like bigotry, will not fix the system, which will only lead to far worse things (worse forms of bigotry, for instance ). Not saying we should drop the attacks on bigotry all together, one can work on both issues, but we must concentrate on fixing the corrupt system. I even see corruption now as a greater threat to humanity than climate change. Imminent nuclear war could be an effect of this corruption.

The USA isn't the only country the far-right is rising in, so one simply can't argue USA-centric issues are to blame, when the common denominator is a Neoliberal mediatised political system, which serves power-hungry plutocrats. The solution? A legislated wall of separation between moneyed interests and the government and media (as in, they must all be divided from each other). It'll encourage the government and media to serve the people's interests, providing a good education system (leading to critical thought as opposed to monological conspiratorial thought), and with a functioning fourth estate in place, an informed public and power being held to account will result.

This is true.

Sometimes it's also far simpler; for example, Trump appealed to the working class demographic, and Clinton didn't, almost at all, it seemed.

As I mentioned before, I'm from a Rust Belt state; the demographic of out of work blue collar frustrated with being jobless and broke is real. Clinton lost all of the Rust Belt.

 

[Random Nobody]

maybe he'll attempt to take the shit seriously.

This would honestly be the worst possible outcome, but seeing as how we already live on darkest timeline Htrae, I'm sure that will be the case.

Best case scenario would be four years of crude, kleptocratic self-enrichment scams for himself, his family, and his federal supporters, then getting out as swiftly as possible before someone yanks the unstable Jenga block.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

So Trump not taking the job seriously and at least trying to do what's best for America and instead letting Mike "electrocute the gays" Pence enact policy would be the best case scenario?

What?

 

[Random Nobody]

So Trump not taking the job seriously and at least trying to do what's best for America and instead letting Mike "electrocute the gays" Pence enact policy would be the best case scenario?

What?

"What's best" is obviously subjective. If Trump taking his job "seriously" is seriously trying to deliver on even half his campaign promises and thus summarised policies (or producing facsimiles and consolations), keep it.

The office of the presidency has never to my knowledge or memory produced a shift towards anything but either neoliberalism or worse. I mean, look at Obama, look at the platform he ran on (which was also unrealistic), and then look at his administration's record.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Yeah so just fuck everything I guess. Good job.

 

[Random Nobody]

Yeah so just fuck everything I guess. Good job.

Yeah, that's definitely what I said.

 

[Dashell]

I realize this was a few pages ago, but a post of mine was quoted as what's wrong with everything and uh...


You guys know I don't support Trump right? I was looking at his page trying to see what his followers saw in him and I found some things that made me go, "Okay that could work out! I like that idea!"... doesn't mean I want him as my president.


Problem is, he's GOING to be my president. I have accepted it. I don't like it, but I've accepted it.

I honestly don't like that someone is trying to say I did something wrong just by joining in on a discussion on how he got elected. That kind of pisses me off. I didn't vote for him. I don't want him, but again, that's who we got. I've already talked about how he's racist, sexist and homophobic and I hope to god he doesn't set us back. I don't feel the need to say it in every post.


If I seem lighthearted at times it's because I typically cope with situations like this with humor. So yeah, maybe I'll add a "Head to the bomb shelters " at the end of my post or something. Doesn't mean I'm not taking the situation seriously, it's just that... might as well get a laugh or two in now BEFORE he gets into office and fucks us all over









and we have to head for the bomb shelters

 

[Random Nobody]

A short list of things a person can do when they don't understand some shit:

- ask

(price: $0.00)