Thor

Tennyo

Higher Further Faster
Just got back from seeing the new movie. As expected, it was pretty good.

I actually got all sad when
Loki "died." Like, oh no! Poor Loki, you can't kill him off!!!

Wait...

Isn't he a crazy psycho villain who kills people? Why am I sad? lol

Oh, but that ending, though.
Loki you glorious bastard. I don't even know if I care what he did to Odin, that was pretty awesome. Is it bad to root for the villain?

And of course, Christopher Eccleston was pretty badass in this movie. :)
 

Geostigma

Pro Adventurer
AKA
gabe
I'm really disappointed with all of you whom call Loki a "villain".

Theres a world of difference between a trickster and a villain guys and the cinematic Loki fits the trickster archetype. Not unlike his actual comic and Mythological counter parts.

People need to stop being so quick to jump on calling anything that isnt the "good guy" a villain :monster:

Was gonna reply to the week old stuff but it seems X covered it all pretty well.
 

Gym Leader Devil

True Master of the Dark-type (suck it Piers)
AKA
So many names
Ummm... Loki tried to conquer the planet with an alien death army and killed 80 people in a couple of days before that. Cinematic Loki is a villain, at least during the Avengers. A case could be made for Anti-villain during Thor and I'd buy it. And I reserve judgement on Thor 2 until I see it, of course.
 

Geostigma

Pro Adventurer
AKA
gabe
The Avengers Loki sure. But then we can also say if you find yourself in a position where the Chituari (and Thanos?) request you open a gate for there army on earth.. You should probably do it.

Sure he had something to gain out of it but its never 100% clear how much of that was his plan. Especially with the scenes where the Chituari are in a position to threaten him or the knowledge that a Celestial Tier villain is calling the shots from above.

Loki was just leading the ground troops of the Chituari on earth. There were still forces above him pulling the strings. Just because he led the siege doesn't really make him the face of evil in that film.

And thats at the height of his "evil" and its debatable how much control he actually had in that film.
In Thor 1 and 2 hes most definitely fitting nice and snug into the Trickster Archetype.
 

Tennyo

Higher Further Faster
The Avengers Loki sure. But then we can also say if you find yourself in a position where the Chituari (and Thanos?) request you open a gate for there army on earth.. You should probably do it.

Sure he had something to gain out of it but its never 100% clear how much of that was his plan. Especially with the scenes where the Chituari are in a position to threaten him or the knowledge that a Celestial Tier villain is calling the shots from above.

Loki was just leading the ground troops of the Chituari on earth. There were still forces above him pulling the strings. Just because he led the siege doesn't really make him the face of evil in that film.

And thats at the height of his "evil" and its debatable how much control he actually had in that film.
In Thor 1 and 2 hes most definitely fitting nice and snug into the Trickster Archetype.

Loki seemed pretty hell-bent on the idea that he was doing this because he was going to be worshipped like a god by the people of Earth. Loki is a villain until he actually does something to redeem himself, if that is even still possible.

It actually kind of bothers me when people try to victimize Loki and other villains like him. He killed people. He did awful things. You can't make that suddenly go away. :monster:

It's like how once when I read an interview with J.K. Rowling and she was talking about how she was slightly horrified that girls were idolizing Draco Malfoy. Malfoy is not a good person, and nothing can be said to explain away his douchebaggery.
 

Geostigma

Pro Adventurer
AKA
gabe
Not trying to victimize Loki. Atleast not completely. Im just trying to point out that we shouldnt jump straight into calling someone a villain when it isnt 100% clear if they're the good guy or bad guy of the film.

I think theres a world of difference between tweens swooning over Draco and someone pointing out that a Mythological and Comic being are far from the villain archetype and that their Cinematic counterpart reflects the original traits of the character fairly well and very consistently through out all 3 films hes featured in.

And again you are citing Loki in The Avengers which is the height of his villainy and as I pointed out earlier its very questionable how much control he was in at that point in the MCU timeline.

About half an hour into the movie theres a conversation between Loki and a Chituari (General?)
The only line that points out that it was a two way street is when the general tells Loki "You will have your war". Its pretty clear there where Loki stands there, its obvious that hes not reluctant to do there bidding.

How ever right after that the general also says (After Loki taunts him for there inability to secure the Tesseract)

"If you fail, if the Tesseract is kept from us, there will be no realm, no barren moon, no crevasse where I can't find you. You think you know pain? He will make you long for that so sweet as pain".

All the while Loki has a pretty scared face :monster:
The threat of Thanos cosmic power aside he still has to deal with being ordered around by the Chituari them selves.

Later in the movie we saw just how easily the Hulk over powered Loki and made a joke of him, But we also saw just how easily a coordinated attack a small squadron of Chituari were able to subdue the Hulk.

Loki knows just how large the Chituari forces are. Im sure he knows he cant go toe to toe with their whole army if he defies them.


I guess my point is , That if Thanos AND the Chituari request you do something for them. You do it , and be happy that they might let you live and even keep a planet for yourself after its all said and done. Because remember The Avengers wasnt about Loki taking over the earth. It was about Thanos securing the Tesseract on Earth and moving on to the other realms taking over the universe.

Yes Loki had something to gain if Thanos plan succeeded in The Avengers, and yes its definitely morally wrong for him to side with this absolute faceless evil in the film. But there is most definitely evidence in the film that things are much larger then just Loki lust for the Throne and its clear that he is not calling the shots and his life hangs in the balance. And as far as the Trickster archetype goes.. that falls perfectly into it. Siding yourself with questionable characters for self preservation and mutual gain is trickster 101.
 
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Roger

He/him
AKA
Minato
Finally found time to watch this

I'd have to say that Jane and Malekith did kind of suffer in terms of screentime. Malekith is kind of plain as a result. I think the build up to Thor finally calling on Loki out of desperation is kind of lost when half the movie by that point was told from Loki's POV anyway. Frigga would never have gotten as much screentime as she did here any other way so I really can't complain about that. And the way she was depicted was fine. Certainly wiser then Thor or Odin.
 

Glaurung

Forgot the cutesy in my other pants. Sorry.
AKA
Mama Dragon
Okay, so, last week I finally got to watch this movie and, after being able to process everything that went on I think I can put my thoughts in order (lol), with many unmarked spoilers.

First the good things:

Being a fan of Loki, one would think that I would list him the first, but this time my mention goes to Frigga.

Frigga didn't have enough screentime in any of the two movies, and she was one of the most important characters. I'm sure there will be long articles and blog entries on Tumblr about this (and surely better explained), but I'm going to say that it's so very rare to see a female character like her: She is a proud Warrior Queen, able to best Malekith in single combat but, first and foremost, she's a wife and a mother, and the one who keeps the peace at home despite the three boys (because husbands sometimes act like overgrown kids) always arguing and making a fuss about things. Just watch how she talked back to Odin in the first movie (deleted scenes), or the conversation she had with Loki in the second and how she got around Odin's prohibition of the two ever seeing each other.

And so she had to die. I was also outraged at first when I knew she was to die to serve as the excuse to have Loki and Thor working together, but then I understood that there was no other way, storywise, since Loki had no other trigger by the time Odin sent him to the dungeon.

I like her in the first movie, but she definitely won my heart from her first scene in TDW. Many people will say that she's just a ditz, but I firmly believe she crashed Jane's date on purpose to get her away from a guy who (albeit a good-hearted and honest-looking man) wasn't the man for her, thus saving her a lot of headaches in the future when she finaly realized her error.

Anyway, Kat Dennins <3

What so say? He steals every scene! No wonder Hiddleston said it had been so fun to play Loki this time around. Won't say more or I will fill an entire book :awesome:

About his "secret pathway", it left me wondering. Did he take a vehicle and destroyed it each time he used that path? Because it was on a mountain range far away from the city and he cannot fly on his own accord. Unless he stole Freya's feathered cape, of course. Or, maybe it's the writers making things on the go.

It was good to see Asgard in more depth, although it was for a short time. Also, seeing the weaponry, more from the Palace and the defense system was very interesting.

Chris Evans making an impression of Hiddleston playing Loki and making an impression of Captain America. Impressionception, LOL!

Finally seeing Thor and Loki interact without throwing punches at each other (well, sorta).

References to other franchises aplenty! Star Wars, Back to the Future and... PORTAL! :awesome:

Now, the bad things:

Too short! They said in the trailers that it was going to be a journey to save the Universe, and it turns out it was only a short trip to another planet. Maybe I've been spoiled silly by LOTR's books, but a "journey" involves a lot of places to visit and a long, long time to do so. Maybe it's a good sign that I wished it to last longer, eh?

The mood swings: It was awkward to watch at times. It's like they threw in some jokes in the middle of a serious scene just to have comic relief, as if we couldn't handle some heavy drama. We had time to mourn Frigga, but we hardly had time to breathe after Loki's "sacrifice". Sure, he had been the antagonist, but still a main character, and the deed left Thor deeply scarred.

So-called grittiness: I didn't get that impression, only that they darkened the overall palette and lowered the lighting. Grittiness is grime, sweat and blood, lots of blood and hardship and senseless injustice and even more senseless acts of gratuitous cruelty. However, I'm happy that they didn't get as gritty as I thought they would.

Hogun being grounded: I never cared that much for Sif and W3 but... well, they felt incomplete :(

And... yeah, I think that's all. I suppose everything has already been talked about and discussed, but I wanted to add something too... even if it's a bit late ^^;

EDIT: Just to say that the abreviation for TDW here in Spain is EMO (El Mundo Oscuro) :awesome:
 
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Lex

Administrator
For some reason watching the first Thor movie way back when I first watched it depressed the fuck out of me, I'm not sure if I've seen the second. Maybe I'll give it a bash.
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
Oh, how come, Tets?

Personally, I think that Banner unquestionably fits into the sciencey dynamic of the supporting cast of the Thor films and that there's a lot of opportunity for greatness there, plus with Hulk having the god-like level strength that can match/rival that of the Asgardians, it makes sense that if there's something that Thor himself can't handle solo, he really seems like the only logical choice to team up with him
"dead"

Also, it'll give them an avenue to go into Planet Hulk if they decide that that's something that they're actually gonna go for.




X :neo:
 

Tetsujin

he/they
AKA
Tets
I think that Banner unquestionably fits into the sciencey dynamic of the supporting cast of the Thor films

Yeah I didn't like those. I don't know, I'd rather there be more otherwordly elements than even more people from Earth. Planet Hulk also sounds stupid to me.
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
Well, Banner is capable of talking science about the otherworldly things that happen in the Nine Realms (since they do cross science with magic fairly closely in the MCU), while also having the added benefit of being able to survive there as Hulk.

Also- what about Planet Hulk is unappealing to you? It's easily my favourite of the Hulk comics that I've ever read, so I'm curious.




X :neo:
 

Tetsujin

he/they
AKA
Tets
I don't know, that kind of stuff often feels out of place for me. I remember watching the Spider-Man cartoon as a kid and one day I tuned in and Spidey was like, fighting aliens on a different planet or something and I was just like "wtf happened here?"
I prefer Earth people to mostly stick to Earth I guess. :monster:
 
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