Maidenofwar
They/Them
I might be tripping but I think we might indeed see Aerith's prayer and departure in the game only in the third game she'll still be playable and in Zack's party somehow 
VII REBIRTH RELEASES FEB 29! NEW TRAILER!
- Thread starter Tetsujin
- Start date
cold_spirit
he/him
- AKA
- Alex T
Nomura's description of the cover art, as translated by Shinra Archeology:
The "3 worlds" part sticks out to me especially. I've often theorized there are at least 3 universes at play. One being the original game and is the source of Sephiroth and Aerith's "future" memories, one that we play through as Cloud and is largely the same but begins to deviate, and one with Zack that is off the rails entirely. As always here is my updated diagram.
I know it's a lot to take in at first. I think it makes the most sense if you read it from top to bottom, left to right.
The "3 worlds" part sticks out to me especially. I've often theorized there are at least 3 universes at play. One being the original game and is the source of Sephiroth and Aerith's "future" memories, one that we play through as Cloud and is largely the same but begins to deviate, and one with Zack that is off the rails entirely. As always here is my updated diagram.
I know it's a lot to take in at first. I think it makes the most sense if you read it from top to bottom, left to right.
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Theozilla
Kaiju Member
I think the “world” that ??? Sephiroth and Aerith’s future memories/knowledge come from is more meant to represent the far future (i.e. when The Planet is at the end of its lifespan) than being an entirely separate timeline like in the diagram. Thus I wouldn’t really separate the OG/non-stamp stuff from the Beagle stamp stuff, conceptually.
Also wouldn’t Mideel be pretty far away from Wutai geographically? Isn’t the ocean to the east of Mideel and west of Wutai supposed to be analogous to the Pacific Ocean in size/distance?
Also I wonder if the doctor and the location people are associating with Mideel could be taking place in Gonganga instead? I can definitely see plenty of additional stuff being added to Gonganga’s scenario in Rebirth.
cold_spirit
he/him
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- Alex T
I'll explain my reasoning. If Aerith and Seph's newfound knowledge comes from the far future, and Zack is alive in another world, then together that'd make this a time travel and multiverse story. That's two mechanisms the storytellers will need to elaborate on.
My whole thing is reducing the mysteries to just one mechanism. I actually think separating the OG into it's own world makes the story simpler. That way, once we get official word on how these alt worlds work, the story will really pull itself together.
In my diagram, the red line representing the OG fades away. That's supposed to represent how that world has reached the end of its lifespan. Yes, I've spent many hours on this haha.
Over the years I've pushed for alt worlds at different eras of time, and it's always raised some eyebrows. The closet point of comparison is the Spider-Verse. In that story, Miles Morales lives in modern day New York while Spider-Man Noir takes place in the 1930s, but they're separate continuities. And no one questions that. So I don't see an issue with something similar here.
Golden Ear
Pro Adventurer
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- M. Prod
Anyone see the Beagle stamp in Junon yet?
Nanaki Skywalker
Kate Lord of the Sith
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- Tarkatan Trash
For those of you wanting the Deluxe Edition but unwilling to pay Square Enix Store shipping prices, Amazon and GameStop listings just popped up, courtesy of Wario64. The GameStop listing is live, while the Amazon one is not just yet (I added it to my Shopping List though).
Theozilla
Kaiju Member
Oh very good eye!
That's basically even further confirmation that alive!Zack is in a separate timeline/universe from main party in the Remake/Rebirth story, and that the regular/Beagle-timeline that we followed the main party through in the first installment didn't transform into the Terrier-timeline/universe (I am guessing the chapter 18 stuff instead caused the Terrier-Stamp timeline/universe to exist).
I think treating the OG as its own thing in a Doylistic sense is perfectly reasonable, but I doubt the in-game narrative is going to treat the OG as an actual tangible separate existing phenomena/universe within the Remake story (at least not beyond meta signaling to players who played the OG). Like I am confident by the time the Remake project ends, it will still be meant to be understood as subsequently flowing into the events of Advent Children and Dirge of Cerebus. Like I doubt the ???Sephiroth is specifically going to be treated as a Sephiroth from a different universe/timeline from the normal Sephiroth the party is fighting and tracking, but rather a manifestation of the normal Remake/Rebirth Sephiroth's powers originating from the future and manifesting across the timeline (eventually concluding in a closed time-loop ending where ???Sephiroth's action/presence inadvertently ensures that Cloud and co. beat him in the main FFVII story being told in the Remake project).
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HeyWhyNot?
Lv. 1 Adventurer
Okay, so I scrubbed through the trailer to check out what non-Boss enemies got shown off, if just because I enjoy seeing the glow-up all these obscure weirdos get and reading the 20's lore explanations for the 90's 'looks cool' designs, and here's what I found:
Tifa fights something by the wrecked ships that is small and seems to have 4 limbs and a tail. All the effects make it hard to see it clearly though if I had to guess I'd say a Nerosuferoth, who are Junon based so maybe that's where this takes place?
Barret and Cloud seem to be killing a Bloatfloat, a pallet swap of Blugu which appeared in Remake. Comparing OG enemy location seems a little less closer here as it doesn't scream Mt. Corel but I suppose it still could be.
Red and Aerith are fighting the Rage Bomb-ing penguins Skeeskee, who are around Cosmo Canyon which fits the red mountain location.
Later Cait Sith is introduced fighting a Kyuvilduns. These are Mt. Nibel enemies and, while it having a beach-y area is new, it is in a fairly mountainous area and fits as a Post-Cait location so it could be accurate.
Then when it comes to Dualtechs, Yuffie/Barret seems to be a Beachplug (any beach basically) while Aerith/Cait is...utterly impossible to tell. You can see a targeting reticule fly into the air out of the beam but it obscures whatever it is.
Tifa fights something by the wrecked ships that is small and seems to have 4 limbs and a tail. All the effects make it hard to see it clearly though if I had to guess I'd say a Nerosuferoth, who are Junon based so maybe that's where this takes place?
Barret and Cloud seem to be killing a Bloatfloat, a pallet swap of Blugu which appeared in Remake. Comparing OG enemy location seems a little less closer here as it doesn't scream Mt. Corel but I suppose it still could be.
Red and Aerith are fighting the Rage Bomb-ing penguins Skeeskee, who are around Cosmo Canyon which fits the red mountain location.
Later Cait Sith is introduced fighting a Kyuvilduns. These are Mt. Nibel enemies and, while it having a beach-y area is new, it is in a fairly mountainous area and fits as a Post-Cait location so it could be accurate.
Then when it comes to Dualtechs, Yuffie/Barret seems to be a Beachplug (any beach basically) while Aerith/Cait is...utterly impossible to tell. You can see a targeting reticule fly into the air out of the beam but it obscures whatever it is.
Tetsujin
he/they
- AKA
- Tets
With how long AAA game development generally takes and how it's usually at least 4-5 years, I really appreciate how this one comes in at juuuuust a little under 4 years since Remake. This is actually a pretty damn good turnaround time. Hope they didn't crunch like crazy for this though.
cold_spirit
he/him
- AKA
- Alex T
Wow. There it is, the smoking gun. Thank you for this. Stamp started the debates and now Stamp has closed them. A fitting end.
Yeah, listing the real deal OG is probably a bit too precise. It doesn't necessarily need to be. Throwing away all the fluff, my theory has always had two core points:
1. Zack's survival takes place in an alternate world
2. Aerith and Sephiroth's newfound knowledge originates from some other world where the key events of Final Fantasy VII have long passed
Any other detail I'm flexible with. The latest trailer has convinced most of #1, now I wait for more confirmation on #2. It's all I can do. Being a theorist has taught me one thing: I can't convince anyone of anything. And even if I end up being right, no one really cares haha.
On another note, I'm still beaming with excitement over the latest trailer. What a showing. The Summer Games Fest trailer was amazing, my favorite yet in the series, but this new one has swiftly stolen the crown. Bravo.
LNK
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Nate
I had the same thought process. The potential to have a manipulated Cloud/Sephiroth as the final boss for Rebirth was just too sweet to not want.
Mr. Dolphin
Lv. 25 Adventurer
I love how genuinely enthusiastic she is about FF7. Also, did she just confirm Rebirth's pronunciation of Cait Sith?
I'm also someone who thought ending Rebirth at the Northern Crater was the best ending point thematically (Rebirth being essentially bookended by two versions of the Nibelheim Flashback, the party being at its lowest point, and setting up the Junon execution sequence as the opener for Pt 3). I'm wondering if they moved the physical location of the Forgotten Capital to now be in the Northern Crater. Nomura said in that same quote about locations extending up to the Forgotten Capital that the order of locations has changed, which I'm guessing may involve relocating a place on the world map if needed.
Trying not to cope too hard haha. I'm going to engage with whatever is in the actual game and I'll probably be stoked about it no matter what.
cold_spirit
he/him
- AKA
- Alex T
Aerith summons the magic spheres that the mooglesaurus eats, producing a massive laser beam.
Genuinely excited to see and play as Cait Sith. For a character that is often ridiculed or forgotten, SE is absolutely putting haters in their place. I really like what we've seen so far.
Genuinely excited to see and play as Cait Sith. For a character that is often ridiculed or forgotten, SE is absolutely putting haters in their place. I really like what we've seen so far.
LNK
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Nate
Right? Besides what we both mentioned, also battling Jenova BIRTH/LIFE/DEATH all in one game makes more sense as well.
Oh well, like you, I know I'll still enjoy what we get. I just need to get a ps5 before it releases. Im hoping for some xmas deals
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
How would the Forgotten City be in the Northern Crater..?
Mr. Dolphin
Lv. 25 Adventurer
Haha yea I guess it would have been absolutely obliterated
Misterbadguy
Phantom Lord
- AKA
- METEODRIVE
This, the segway and Red riding the chocobo are some of the best parts of the media released. They're continuing to embrace fun and silliness.
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
Yeah, you can really tell how a lot of the technological and implementation work that they focused on for Remake really paid off in helping them to streamline development into Rebirth, with INTERmission also being a decent snapshot of this. It also feels crazy that this is only a little over 5 months away now.
I-I want this SO badly now. xD They should have a section where they're going into a headwind, so that Roche's hair gets over-dramatically blown backwards as they go up a slight incline. Even better if he's in a track suit as his Costa Del Sol beachwear.
However, I think that the TRULY peak moment would be to have them locking eyes as they're headed towards whatever finish line they're aiming for, only to have their gaze broken by a sprinting Johnny cutting between them and blowing past both of them on foot with his goofy max speed run.
X
cold_spirit
he/him
- AKA
- Alex T
I have a few thoughts that I managed to cobble together.
In the newest trailer, Elmyra says "The world's ending. At least, that's what everyone is saying." In the sky above, an angelic ring is visible. Compare that to the angelic universe shown at the end of Remake, which the Japanese Material Ultimania refers to as the "dying universe".
I'm betting that the Terrier world (the one with Zack) is within that dying universe.
Gazing upon the angelic dying universe, Sephiroth says "Our world will become a part of it...one day. But I...will not end. Nor will I have you end." Perhaps there's something absorbing universes, hence why they "become a part of it". This process seemingly kills the worlds within them.
Additionally, the latest trailer ends with Sephiroth saying "The reunion... when worlds merge." Is Sephiroth's usage of "reunion" here referring to how universes "become a part of it"?
The red universe behind Cloud is named the "universe that will be born". The storyboard for this scene (again, within the Material Ultimania) states that Cloud "bears the burden" of this universe. Is this the universe that the Beagle world (the one we play through in Remake) resides in?
Finally, we have the dead world between the two that Sephiroth refers to as the "Edge of Creation". The in-game story summary for this scene states "In the world beyond, Sephiroth shows Cloud a vision of the planet seven seconds before its demise."
My big brain theory is that this third world did not die of natural causes. Instead, I'm starting to think Sephiroth succeeded in absorbing its lifestream. His ultimate goal then is to overcome whatever it is that's currently afflicting the angelic dying universe. To that end, he's absorbing all the lifestream a world has right before they "become a part of it", preserving them in a way. His sights are now set on the next universe in line: the one that contains the Beagle world that Remake takes place on.
In Sephiroth's mind, he's "saving" the worlds he absorbs, hence Aerith's line in Chapter 18: "He'd tell you that he only cares about the planet. That he'd do anything in his power to protect and preserve it. But this isn't the way it's supposed to be." What Sephiroth is doing is against the natural order.
The Remake Project would then culminate with Cloud and Zack saving their respective worlds, both from Sephiroth and whatever "it" is. Altogether, these are the "three worlds" which Nomura says are represented in Rebirth's key art.
Just some food for thought!
In the newest trailer, Elmyra says "The world's ending. At least, that's what everyone is saying." In the sky above, an angelic ring is visible. Compare that to the angelic universe shown at the end of Remake, which the Japanese Material Ultimania refers to as the "dying universe".
I'm betting that the Terrier world (the one with Zack) is within that dying universe.
Gazing upon the angelic dying universe, Sephiroth says "Our world will become a part of it...one day. But I...will not end. Nor will I have you end." Perhaps there's something absorbing universes, hence why they "become a part of it". This process seemingly kills the worlds within them.
Additionally, the latest trailer ends with Sephiroth saying "The reunion... when worlds merge." Is Sephiroth's usage of "reunion" here referring to how universes "become a part of it"?
The red universe behind Cloud is named the "universe that will be born". The storyboard for this scene (again, within the Material Ultimania) states that Cloud "bears the burden" of this universe. Is this the universe that the Beagle world (the one we play through in Remake) resides in?
Finally, we have the dead world between the two that Sephiroth refers to as the "Edge of Creation". The in-game story summary for this scene states "In the world beyond, Sephiroth shows Cloud a vision of the planet seven seconds before its demise."
My big brain theory is that this third world did not die of natural causes. Instead, I'm starting to think Sephiroth succeeded in absorbing its lifestream. His ultimate goal then is to overcome whatever it is that's currently afflicting the angelic dying universe. To that end, he's absorbing all the lifestream a world has right before they "become a part of it", preserving them in a way. His sights are now set on the next universe in line: the one that contains the Beagle world that Remake takes place on.
In Sephiroth's mind, he's "saving" the worlds he absorbs, hence Aerith's line in Chapter 18: "He'd tell you that he only cares about the planet. That he'd do anything in his power to protect and preserve it. But this isn't the way it's supposed to be." What Sephiroth is doing is against the natural order.
The Remake Project would then culminate with Cloud and Zack saving their respective worlds, both from Sephiroth and whatever "it" is. Altogether, these are the "three worlds" which Nomura says are represented in Rebirth's key art.
Just some food for thought!
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LNK
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Nate
I definitely believe there are 3 "worlds," maybe not in the sense that others are interpreting, idk.
Clouds "world" is where we played through in remake, and will moving forward.
Zack's is actually the lifestream (I still believe he is dead)
Sephiroth's is one where both are destroyed.
I think the Edge of Creation was Sephiroth partially telling Cloud his plan but still misleading him. It really seems like SE is leaning in hard in showing how much Sephiroth is gaslighting Cloud. At least from my perspective based on my experience of what we've seen so far, and my knowledge of the compilation.
I'm definitely open to being wrong, but this is where I'm still at with the Remake project.
Clouds "world" is where we played through in remake, and will moving forward.
Zack's is actually the lifestream (I still believe he is dead)
Sephiroth's is one where both are destroyed.
I think the Edge of Creation was Sephiroth partially telling Cloud his plan but still misleading him. It really seems like SE is leaning in hard in showing how much Sephiroth is gaslighting Cloud. At least from my perspective based on my experience of what we've seen so far, and my knowledge of the compilation.
I'm definitely open to being wrong, but this is where I'm still at with the Remake project.