What do you think about Cloud?

[Kobato]

I also firmly believe there's some serious Halo Effect going on here. I wonder if Cloud's girlfriends would be queuing up to defend him if he wasn't a blonde bishounen and instead looked like....say....Moe Szyslak?

I support/ defend Queen Brahne from FF9 and she's not exactly fanservice material, so I say yes, yes I would.

I don't think you've really lost anybody close to you in RL, otherwise you wouldn't be so cold. He's not 'attention seeking because he's ronery ". Hell, a weird creepy sciencest who looks like a pedophile experimented him for six years of his life. Imagine missing out on your high school life, hanging out with friends and family, missing out on your prom, and every single day being torture, and then you come out six years later completely brainfucked, and then the first thing you remember is seeing your ONLY friend, being shot several times and dead. Then the person who killed your mother and burned down your hometown, is now mindfucking with your head, and then wants you to kill a innocent girl, and then you watch a innocent girl die, be stabbed right in front of you, and it's all your fault because your too frighted of the person who is mindfucking with your head to move in time.

Then two years later, you realize that because of you, because you weren't strong enough, two people that you were close too are now dead, and also it's your fault that the meteor came to the planet and you almost destoryed the whole world and everybody in it, because of Sephiroth, and your entire life has been complete and utter shit.

But no, everybody prefers the anime shonen rip-off Zack, because he's good at everything he does, act like he's a friggen child, and has no problems, and is completely unrealistic. And even though he has a girlfriend, he hits on another red-headed chick, and others. But it's okay, because he's HAAAPY, and not depressed, or 'emo' and hasn't suffered in his life, so it's okay.

No, no, no Cloud is just a attention seeker, because everybody close to him is dead, oh poor baby. He only saw his best friends got slaughted, I wish he would toughen the fuck up. / sarcasm.

 

[Ite]

I return from the dead with this important public service announcement:

I agree with every word Masamune has said (and probably will say).

That is all. *goes back into hiding*

 

[Roger]

I support/ defend Queen Brahne from FF9 and she's not exactly fanservice material, so I say yes, yes I would.

I don't think you've really lost anybody close to you in RL, otherwise you wouldn't be so cold. He's not 'attention seeking because he's ronery ". Hell, a weird creepy sciencest who looks like a pedophile experimented him for six years of his life. Imagine missing out on your high school life, hanging out with friends and family, missing out on your prom, and every single day being torture, and then you come out six years later completely brainfucked, and then the first thing you remember is seeing your ONLY friend, being shot several times and dead. Then the person who killed your mother and burned down your hometown, is now mindfucking with your head, and then wants you to kill a innocent girl, and then you watch a innocent girl die, be stabbed right in front of you, and it's all your fault because your too frighted of the person who is mindfucking with your head to move in time.

Then two years later, you realize that because of you, because you weren't strong enough, two people that you were close too are now dead, and also it's your fault that the meteor came to the planet and you almost destoryed the whole world and everybody in it, because of Sephiroth, and your entire life has been complete and utter shit.

But no, everybody prefers the anime shonen rip-off Zack, because he's good at everything he does, act like he's a friggen child, and has no problems, and is completely unrealistic. And even though he has a girlfriend, he hits on another red-headed chick, and others. But it's okay, because he's HAAAPY, and not depressed, or 'emo' and hasn't suffered in his life, so it's okay.

No, no, no Cloud is just a attention seeker, because everybody close to him is dead, oh poor baby. He only saw his best friends got slaughted, I wish he would toughen the fuck up. / sarcasm.

I've lost people in RL and I nevertheless have to say that even after all that, Cloud not being willing to go rescue Denzel and Marlene from the crazed men that just beat up Tifa, doesn't seem like something Cloud would do, no matter how low he sinks.

Even for that people that are able to accept that Cloud's journey in FFVII taught him less then nothing and that after losing his shallow goal in defeating Sephiroth he was just a relapse back into his old weak self waiting to happen, THAT scene was still too much to ask of his fans to swallow.

 

[Kobato]

I've lost people in RL and I nevertheless have to say that even after all that, Cloud not being willing to go rescue Denzel and Marlene from the crazed men that just beat up Tifa, doesn't seem like something Cloud would do, no matter how low he sinks.

Even for that people that are able to accept that Cloud's journey in FFVII taught him less then nothing and that after losing his shallow goal in defeating Sephiroth he was just a relapse back into his old weak self waiting to happen, THAT scene was still too much to ask of his fans to swallow.

It's called depression, he felt like he was worthless and that he couldn't help anybody. What was the point when he failed to save Aerith and Zack, were most likely to be his thoughts. It's rather difficult to feel like your worth something, and that you can do something, when you feel like your nothing but a waste. Also he was late to save Tifa from Loz, so he would mostly likely feel like even more of a mess, what if Tifa had died ? Would most problery be circling through his mind.

Cloud feels like he can't help or save anybody, and it's not till he saves Tifa from the falling building that he starts to kick in that he's not that bad after all. He didn't go save Denzel because he felt like no matter how much he tries, the people he loves, he looses. He's depressed. It's not like depressed people can have the heart to do something when they feel like they should die, and feel absolutely weak and miserable. And no, I'm not supporting Cloud because I think that he's '' cute and hawt111 ", I'm supporting him because I feel like I relate to his character and personality. Not all Cloud fangirls are " OMG111, Cloud is soooo kute ! ! " >________>

That is all. *goes back into hiding*

You better hide.

 

[Roger]

It's called depression, he felt like he was worthless and that he couldn't help anybody. What was the point when he failed to save Aerith and Zack, were most likely to be his thoughts.

I do hope that, maybe in a hundred million years or so, that excuse won't be applicable when Cloud screws up.

Also he was late to save Tifa from Loz, so he would mostly likely feel like even more of a mess, what if Tifa had died ? Would most problery be circling through his mind.

Yes, Cloud would not know how to deal with something like this. Tifa getting into a fight? Completely unprecedented.

Cloud feels like he can't help or save anybody, and it's not till he saves Tifa from the falling building that he starts to kick in that he's not that bad after all. He didn't go save Denzel because he felt like no matter how much he tries, the people he loves, he looses. He's depressed. It's not like depressed people can have the heart to do something when they feel like they should die, and feel absolutely weak and miserable.

Except that he has. Many times in the past. After his mom died. After Zack died. After AVALANCHE and everyone in Sector 7 died. After Aerith died. After the world was gonna end thanks to him. I mean, he let us know he was down about it, but he still had the heart to go on.

And no, I'm not supporting Cloud because I think that he's '' cute and hawt111 ", I'm supporting him because I feel like I relate to his character and personality. Not all Cloud fangirls are " OMG111, Cloud is soooo kute ! ! " >________>

And I'm not supporting this for the same reason, I like his character too much for him to just be turned to having everything about him be about Zack and Aerith, long after their gone. Which is totally the case in ACC.

 

[Masamune]

I support/ defend Queen Brahne from FF9 and she's not exactly fanservice material, so I say yes, yes I would.

I don't think you've really lost anybody close to you in RL, otherwise you wouldn't be so cold. He's not 'attention seeking because he's ronery ". Hell, a weird creepy sciencest who looks like a pedophile experimented him for six years of his life. Imagine missing out on your high school life, hanging out with friends and family, missing out on your prom, and every single day being torture, and then you come out six years later completely brainfucked, and then the first thing you remember is seeing your ONLY friend, being shot several times and dead. Then the person who killed your mother and burned down your hometown, is now mindfucking with your head, and then wants you to kill a innocent girl, and then you watch a innocent girl die, be stabbed right in front of you, and it's all your fault because your too frighted of the person who is mindfucking with your head to move in time.

Then two years later, you realize that because of you, because you weren't strong enough, two people that you were close too are now dead, and also it's your fault that the meteor came to the planet and you almost destoryed the whole world and everybody in it, because of Sephiroth, and your entire life has been complete and utter shit.

But no, everybody prefers the anime shonen rip-off Zack, because he's good at everything he does, act like he's a friggen child, and has no problems, and is completely unrealistic. And even though he has a girlfriend, he hits on another red-headed chick, and others. But it's okay, because he's HAAAPY, and not depressed, or 'emo' and hasn't suffered in his life, so it's okay.

No, no, no Cloud is just a attention seeker, because everybody close to him is dead, oh poor baby. He only saw his best friends got slaughted, I wish he would toughen the fuck up. / sarcasm.

Thanks for assuming a bunch of BS about me because I disagree about a fictional character.

I'm well aware of Cloud's emotional baggage, thankyouverymuch. Never did I say the character wouldn't have any scars from his past experiences. The fact of the matter remains that Cloud was a stronger person at the end of FFVII. The character has regressed PAST FFVII. However messed up he was in the game, he never gave up on himself or the people who needed him. Sephiroth using his mind as a basketball doesn't count. So the character has regressed even further back than FFVII. He's now a mopey teenager who's only concerned with me, me, me. Doesn't matter that his son's dying or his woman needs him, better to just ignore them and go feel sorry for himself.

Also, the argument that there's no 'Sephiroth' this time is completely invalidated by the presence of Kadaj & co., which gives Cloud a focus for his strength. He shouldn't need to be pushed into saving his own kids.

Ofc, he's just misunderstood. Like Edward Cullen.

 

[Celes Chere]

But no, everybody prefers the anime shonen rip-off Zack, because he's good at everything he does, act like he's a friggen child, and has no problems, and is completely unrealistic. And even though he has a girlfriend, he hits on another red-headed chick, and others. But it's okay, because he's HAAAPY, and not depressed, or 'emo' and hasn't suffered in his life, so it's okay.

QUUUURL EXCUSE ME? Sorry, but I'm going to jump in to defend Zack. It's not through Crisis Core that I liked him. I loved him in FFVII, even though not much was known about him. All I knew at that point is that he was cheerful, hopeful, dedicated, and that he saved Cloud's ass. He was a hero. Zack is NOT good at everything that he does. Obviously he had to start at a lower class and work his way to the top. I wouldn't say he acted like a child, he was just upbeat and cheerful - there is a clear difference. He was just a nice a guy, that doesn't make you a baby. He has LOTS of problems, are you kidding? XD He questions if what he is fighting for is the right thing. He saw Angeal DIE. He was tested on and locked away for four years and away from his girlfriend. When he goes back to see her, he dies in the process. Not to mention that he saw Sephiroth snap, had Genesis clones after him, and watched Lazard die also... all whilst babysitting and protecting Cloud without one single complaint. He recognized his duties and responsibilities. You call that the easy life? O_o How is Zack unrealistic? I don't understand.

He never ONCE hit on Cissnei. She invited him out and he never said yes. Even so, going out to dinner with someone DOESN'T make you an item. Also, when Cissnei questions about Aerith in a jealous tone, Zack tells her that Aerith is one of a kind and questions if Cissnei is a stalker (lawl).

Zack is a natural flirt. Some guys are. It doesn't mean he is IN LOVE with every woman.

Ofc, he's just misunderstood. Like Edward Cullen.

Lol'd. Hard.

 

[Celes Chere]

How are you so perfect with words dear?

I learned from you, sexy. ;D

 

[Tifabelle]

You guys are disgusting.

 

[Celes Chere]

Jealous. As per usual.

 

[Terrafig]

I gotta' ask, Ashelia, was that a massive troll? Granted, I might just have missed something.

 

[Tennyo]

I've been meaning to post in this thread, but haven't. Don't know why.

Um, well I'm quite the huge Cloud fan. Love his AC outfit more than his FFVII outfit, but overall I like him however he looks.

I do agree with Masamune, though. While I don't outright HATE Cloud in AC/C, I kind of wish he hadn't been so "I'm no good to anyone" and run off. That is rather backwards from where he was at the end of the game.

True, the novella's explain it all, but still. I'm wishing he wouldn't have done that. He could have been mopey and still living at home.

 

[Dashell]

It's called depression, he felt like he was worthless and that he couldn't help anybody. What was the point when he failed to save Aerith and Zack, were most likely to be his thoughts. It's rather difficult to feel like your worth something, and that you can do something, when you feel like your nothing but a waste. Also he was late to save Tifa from Loz, so he would mostly likely feel like even more of a mess, what if Tifa had died ? Would most problery be circling through his mind.

I think only people who have actually been this low can truly understand how Cloud felt here. I understand it, I was there and I have a feeling you were too. (and that's not an insult to anyone or anything. I don't want anyone to ever be there, but it does happen) However, I can understand how some people would say "This isn't like Cloud..." but IMO, that wasn't really Cloud. When I was depressed, I wasn't really myself either.

So really I can kinda get both sides here.. yeah Cloud was being a dork, but on the other hand I can understand how he felt... believe me I can.

 

[Kobato]

. He's now a mopey teenager who's only concerned with me, me, me. Doesn't matter that his son's dying or his woman needs him, better to just ignore them and go feel sorry for himself.

Also, the argument that there's no 'Sephiroth' this time is completely invalidated by the presence of Kadaj & co., which gives Cloud a focus for his strength. He shouldn't need to be pushed into saving his own kids.

As I said before, he's depressed and he feels worthless because he watched both of his close friends die, and he was brainfucked in the past. He's still grieving from his mistakes and his terrors of the past. As I said before, when your depressed you don't exactly feel like your worthy of anything, and he felt like he couldn't save anybody, because he couldn't save Zack and Aerith, Aerith died in front of his eyes and he could of saved her.
Well I'm going to assume things, if you think that somebody who is suffering from depression is a whiny emo teenager.

Ofc, he's just misunderstood. Like Edward Cullen.

Edward Cullen has no personality. How can he be misunderstood. -__-

I think only people who have actually been this low can truly understand how Cloud felt here. I understand it, I was there and I have a feeling you were too. (and that's not an insult to anyone or anything. I don't want anyone to ever be there, but it does happen) However, I can understand how some people would say "This isn't like Cloud..." but IMO, that wasn't really Cloud. When I was depressed, I wasn't really myself either.
.

Que has basically said it. You don't really understand AC Cloud, till your been there yourself. He isn't a immature brat, because he was depressed. Are Que and I immature brats because we went through depression ? Two of my closest friends died, and one of them died this year. I felt like I could do nothing, and that I was nothing, I felt worthless.

 

[Ⓐaron]

I think Masa was being sarcastic. But it's not true that Edward Cullen has no personality. He does have personality: the personality of a stalker.

@Cloud, I think he's a very screwed up individual, at least in FFVII proper, and that's a large part of what makes him so interesting. He also pretty clearly has severe trouble expressing his emotions, and doesn't even really know what he feels at all for a large part of the game, both of which are traits I can relate to more than I'd care to admit.

I haven't read most of this thread. Will do so tomorrow probably.

 

[Dashell]

Are Que and I immature brats because we went through depression ?

Am I an immature brat because of THAT? no. That's because of other reasons

 

[Kobato]

QUUUURL EXCUSE ME?

Sorry, but I'm going to jump in to defend Zack. It's not through Crisis Core that I liked him. I loved him in FFVII, even though not much was known about him. All I knew at that point is that he was cheerful, hopeful, dedicated, and that he saved Cloud's ass. He was a hero. Zack is NOT good at everything that he does. Obviously he had to start at a lower class and work his way to the top. I wouldn't say he acted like a child, he was just upbeat and cheerful - there is a clear difference. He was just a nice a guy, that doesn't make you a baby. He has LOTS of problems, are you kidding? XD He questions if what he is fighting for is the right thing. He saw Angeal DIE. He was tested on and locked away for four years and away from his girlfriend. When he goes back to see her, he dies in the process. Not to mention that he saw Sephiroth snap, had Genesis clones after him, and watched Lazard die also... all whilst babysitting and protecting Cloud without one single complaint. He recognized his duties and responsibilities. You call that the easy life? O_o How is Zack unrealistic? I don't understand.

I have to admit that I did loose my temper/ cool because I get sick and tired of calling Cloud a annoying emo kid, when he's been through shit and back, and people prefer Zack because he doesn't 'whine'. >________>

Really ? He acted like a 'puppy' he wasn't cool, calm or controlled during missions, he jumped out of the helicopter like it was a roller-coaster ride.


there is a clear difference. He was just a nice a guy, that doesn't make you a baby.

Yeah and just because Cloud is depressed and feels worthless, doesn't mean that he's a attention seeker baby either. >_______>

I admire Zack's heroism and I don't mind his character, and he did help Cloud. But honestly, it pisses me off when people see Zack as some god, just because Cloud feels like he's made some horrible mistakes.

He never ONCE hit on Cissnei. She invited him out and he never said yes. Even so, going out to dinner with someone DOESN'T make you an item. Also, when Cissnei questions about Aerith in a jealous tone, Zack tells her that Aerith is one of a kind and questions if Cissnei is a stalker (lawl).

Zack is a natural flirt. Some guys are. It doesn't mean he is IN LOVE with every woman.

Zack is a playboy.

On January 16, 0002 Zack Fair is sent to deal with the insurgency known as AVALANCHE. He is sent to Icicle Inn to destroy an AVALANCHE base along with a player Turk and his SOLDIER friends, Essai and Sebastian. If the Turk player is female, Zack will hit on her

Not to mention, Zack hits on the office lady in Crisis Core, while he's still dating Aerith. Zack is not different from Edgar, Irvine, Zidane, and Edge.
Just because he's not love with them doesn't make it right. Girls are usually crept out by that sort in thing in RL, and in FF8 Rinoa and Quistis didn't really enjoy Irvine's flirting.

I don't hate or think that he's a horrible character, it just annoys me that Cloud gets called all these bad things because he's going through a rough time, and Zack gets called the better person, because he doesn't get depressed. I'm sorry that I'm not a huge Zack lover, but it just really ticks me off. Also when Zack is being defended, everybody supports it, but when Cloud is being defended, nobody bats a eyelash.

 

[Dashell]

Sorry, but I'm going to jump in to defend Zack. It's not through Crisis Core that I liked him. I loved him in FFVII, even though not much was known about him. All I knew at that point is that he was cheerful, hopeful, dedicated, and that he saved Cloud's ass. He was a hero. Zack is NOT good at everything that he does. Obviously he had to start at a lower class and work his way to the top. I wouldn't say he acted like a child, he was just upbeat and cheerful - there is a clear difference. He was just a nice a guy, that doesn't make you a baby. He has LOTS of problems, are you kidding? XD He questions if what he is fighting for is the right thing. He saw Angeal DIE. He was tested on and locked away for four years and away from his girlfriend. When he goes back to see her, he dies in the process. Not to mention that he saw Sephiroth snap, had Genesis clones after him, and watched Lazard die also... all whilst babysitting and protecting Cloud without one single complaint. He recognized his duties and responsibilities. You call that the easy life? O_o How is Zack unrealistic? I don't understand.

...

okay I'm sorry how is that NOT unrealistic? Any real person wouldn't have been able to handle all that

 

[Kobato]

...

okay I'm sorry how is that NOT unrealistic? Any real person wouldn't have been able to handle all that

Are you are on my side, or are you ganging up aganist me ? I'm confused.

 

[Dashell]

... well I'm with you on the Cloud thing, I'm just surprised someone would argue with anyone in FFVII being unrealistic...

maybe I'll just stay out of it

 

[Celes Chere]

I have to admit that I did loose my temper/ cool because I get sick and tired of calling Cloud a annoying emo kid, when he's been through shit and back, and people prefer Zack because he doesn't 'whine'. >________>

I never called Cloud any of that, lol. I don't prefer Zack because he doesn't 'whine'. I prefer Zack because he's a better character in my opinion. For... the reasons I already listed. Yeah, he was restless and sometimes naive, but he grew up. Yes... he jumped out of a helicopter.. in a digital sequence... not to mention he's trained for that shizz. . . Are you sure you played Crisis Core?

Yeah and just because Cloud is depressed and feels worthless, doesn't mean that he's a attention seeker baby either. >_______>

I never said that he was, lol. Cloud had a lot of shit to deal with, and I don't blame him for it. I admire Zack had the strength to keep pushing forwards and sacrificed his life like he did. It doesn't mean I think Cloud is WRONG for being depressed.

Zack is a playboy.

Yuffie calls him a pervert and he gets pretty offended. I don't think he LIKES being know as that. xD

On January 16, 0002 Zack Fair is sent to deal with the insurgency known as AVALANCHE. He is sent to Icicle Inn to destroy an AVALANCHE base along with a player Turk and his SOLDIER friends, Essai and Sebastian. If the Turk player is female, Zack will hit on her

Um.. So? He calls the girl pretty... big deal?

Not to mention, Zack hits on the office lady in Crisis Core, while he's still dating Aerith.

What office lady? And did he ask her out? No. Did he dedicate his life to her? No. Was he in love with her? No. He's charming, and a flirt. Some guys are like that. It doesn't make them bad people. Tbh, if the person I was with called someone else pretty I would not give one fuck. It's just a compliment, and I'd know who REALLY matters in their heart. Aerith obviously trusted Zack enough, and Zack loved Aerith enough to risk his life for her. I'm pretty sure the other girls don't mean a damn thing close to that to him. XD

Zack is not different from Edgar, Irvine, Zidane, and Edge.
Just because he's not love with them doesn't make it right. Girls are usually crept out by that sort in thing in RL, and in FF8 Rinoa and Quistis didn't really enjoy Irvine's flirting.

Edgar never was promised to anyone. Irvine pretty much only hit on Selphie, especially when he got more interested. Zidane likes girls - he stopped hitting on them when he got serious with Garnet. Edge... called all of the girls pretty, when he wasn't with ANYONE. That does not make them womanizers.

because he doesn't get depressed.

Uhh... he cried when Angeal died. He was VERY upset reading Aerith's last letter. When he question what he was fighting for, he seemed very conflicted. He is not ALWAYS happy. I'm defending Zack beause what you're saying about his character is inaccurate to me. I really don't mind Cloud, so why should I defend him?

 

[Dashell]

Okay I see what this is about now...

I don't have a problem if Rob would think another girl is pretty. If we were at a restaurant or something, and after the waitress took our order she walked away and he said, "She's cute, don't you think?"... that wouldn't bug me... but if he went up to her later and said, "Hey, you're really cute..." THAT... might bother me.

I don't think he would do that though. But Aerith wasn't with him when this happened right? I guess it depends on where his heart was when he said those things. As long as his heart is with Aerith, giving a girl a compliment isn't really bad. He just has to be careful of how he handles it is all.

EDIT
you know it does specifically say he's "hitting on her"... which to me indicates he has intention to possibly advance with her. So I can see why someone would take this the wrong way... but the compliment itself really isn't that bad. If they didn't call it "hitting on her"... I wouldn't think twice about it.

 

[Max Payne]

I think only people who have actually been this low can truly understand how Cloud felt here. I understand it, I was there and I have a feeling you were too. (and that's not an insult to anyone or anything. I don't want anyone to ever be there, but it does happen) However, I can understand how some people would say "This isn't like Cloud..." but IMO, that wasn't really Cloud. When I was depressed, I wasn't really myself either.

I am feeling like this often given my terrible life, hell I've wanted to kill myself more'n a few time in the lowest bits of my life(losing home and everything, being pretty much poor and on the street for more than 2 days).

But I have to say, if I had what Cloud does(inhuman power, people that love him, a proper home and business) I WOULD NEVER be that depressed, even with a terminal disease. At the very least I would die happy, and loved.

 

[Dashell]

Yeah it's easy to say that but... when depression is a chemical imbalance you can get depressed even if you have all that stuff. And I did so

But I guess Cloud is a bit different...

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

You may just be mentally healthier than Cloud Dac. Not that that says much