SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Rin]

I loved flawed characters so Aerith being flawed has never bothered me, personally. I also think the fandom is just a bit too harsh overall, although I understand why her actions may trigger some people. But ultimately, as I told a friend of mine, if Tifa isn't bothered than neither am I.

If part of the storyline were to genuinely be about Aerith hurting Tifa with these actions (as it was depicted in the OG) then I would feel more strongly about it all. As it is currently, other than one singular confused "huh?" Tifa doesn't bat an eyelash at CA, so I don't either. The one who IS actively being hurt by this plot is Zack but it's not like Aerith is doing it in front of his face, so it's not something that should reflect poorly on her character in my opinion.

 

[liuliuliu]

He wasn't able to do that with Tifa though, which is interesting. I think that shows that Sephiroth still needed something from Aerith, so he relinquished some control. But he knows that Tifa is really in his way, so he pushed him at Gongaga.

Edit: Oh and there was that huge amount of Mako at Gongaga which was already messing with his head.

That’s true. I’m surprised I didn’t see any CA use this as an example…

 

[AncientGrimoire]

Ok look, at the end of the day, I love these characters, and they are that very special kind where, if I’m being completely honest, I want them all to get the happiness and beautiful endings that they deserve, whether it makes sense or not or storytelling conventions be damned. Well, maybe not too much and I doubt it’ll go so far off the rails I’ll never find myself not loving FFVII’s universe and its characters.

But to bring back my previous mention of Tolkien and his storytelling, I was completely at the mercy of his story. It didn’t matter one bit whether I wanted everyone to have a happy ending or not. Tolkien was a storyteller at the height of his powers, and he delivered a denouement to each and every single one of his numerous cast of characters in a way that not only benefited, and made sense to and for that character, but as always with him, it even gave you a little bit more information about the story at large, and the world itself.

Most stories could only ever hope to deliver not only satisfying character conclusions like that, but one that enhances and enriches the conclusion of the overall story.

I would love for Part 3 to be able to deliver on this.

The catharsis I felt for example with Frodo’s ending was something I’ve only ever experienced twice. When reading the book, and seeing it play out on screen. I can only hope I get a similar response to the character resolutions in Part 3.

Because when you strip everything else away from Final Fantasy VII, it’s lore, it’s mythos, it’s themes, both fantastical and grounded in the everyday that we could relate to in 1997 and even more so now, what you have left is its gorgeous, weird, broken, traumatised, loving, beautiful, hopeful, inspirational cast of characters that on paper together shouldn’t make sense but by golly do they just work when you see them all come together.

Rebirth, more than the original ever did, is just fully affirming that this is a found family. The genius of what Rebirth is able to accomplish is its clear identification of all the various threads that bind these people together. Never has a family like this, nor a cast of Final Fantasy party members made more sense than VII’s.

Everything, from why Tifa and Aerith would be able to forge such a sisterhood, why Cloud and Nanaki are kindred spirits, a mirror of the other, why Barret would feel protective towards, fatherly even, to Cloud, to Tifa and to Aerith and to Nanaki. Why Yuffie would desire so strongly to join up with Cloud’s team, and why their brother and sister dynamic makes so much more sense when you consider the dynamic she had with Sonon, that was ripped from her in Intermission. Why, despite their differences she and Barret would be able to form a healthy respect and understanding of the other.

Why Aerith and Nanaki are so each other’s safe place. Why they would all choose to follow Cloud, and believe in him as their leader, even when on many occasions he gives them room for doubt.

There are honestly soo many layers to the cast of FFVII, and I haven’t even touched on the links that unify Cait Sith, Cid, and Vincent to this merry band of misfits.

You’ll have already seen from my previous posts that as far as Final Fantasy VII is concerned, my heart belongs to its characters. Rebirth is a shining example of why these characters are so beloved. And it’s why when certain moments neglect them, forget them, or do them wrong in a story sense, it stands out.

But I ultimately have faith in the developers that they are wise enough to know how cherished this cast is, how important it is to deliver on their arcs and their stories. I respect their understanding, and their ambitions to also weave them all into this ever growing tapestry of destiny and fate that is unwieldy and arguably burdensome, but as long as they remember to keep coming back to the characters, their emotions and their feelings, and what their own desires and dreams are, there is nothing to suggest they can’t deliver on a resounding and satisfying finale.

That said, selfishly, I do just want them all to be happy.

These are characters that have been in my life, and many, many other fans, for over 20 years. I would love for them, more than anything, to get the endings they deserve.

 

[shady]

Ok look, at the end of the day, I love these characters, and they are that very special kind where, if I’m being completely honest, I want them all to get the happiness and beautiful endings that they deserve, whether it makes sense or not or storytelling conventions be damned. Well, maybe not too much and I doubt it’ll go so far off the rails I’ll never find myself not loving FFVII’s universe and its characters.

But to bring back my previous mention of Tolkien and his storytelling, I was completely at the mercy of his story. It didn’t matter one bit whether I wanted everyone to have a happy ending or not. Tolkien was a storyteller at the height of his powers, and he delivered a denouement to each and every single one of his numerous cast of characters in a way that not only benefited, and made sense to and for that character, but as always with him, it even gave you a little bit more information about the story at large, and the world itself.

Most stories could only ever hope to deliver not only satisfying character conclusions like that, but one that enhances and enriches the conclusion of the overall story.

I would love for Part 3 to be able to deliver on this.

The catharsis I felt for example with Frodo’s ending was something I’ve only ever experienced twice. When reading the book, and seeing it play out on screen. I can only hope I get a similar response to the character resolutions in Part 3.

Because when you strip everything else away from Final Fantasy VII, it’s lore, it’s mythos, it’s themes, both fantastical and grounded in the everyday that we could relate to in 1997 and even more so now, what you have left is its gorgeous, weird, broken, traumatised, loving, beautiful, hopeful, inspirational cast of characters that on paper together shouldn’t make sense but by golly do they just work when you see them all come together.

Rebirth, more than the original ever did, is just fully affirming that this is a found family. The genius of what Rebirth is able to accomplish is its clear identification of all the various threads that bind these people together. Never has a family like this, nor a cast of Final Fantasy party members made more sense than VII’s.

Everything, from why Tifa and Aerith would be able to forge such a sisterhood, why Cloud and Nanaki are kindred spirits, a mirror of the other, why Barret would feel protective towards, fatherly even, to Cloud, to Tifa and to Aerith and to Nanaki. Why Yuffie would desire so strongly to join up with Cloud’s team, and why their brother and sister dynamic makes so much more sense when you consider the dynamic she had with Sonon, that was ripped from her in Intermission. Why, despite their differences she and Barret would be able to form a healthy respect and understanding of the other.

Why Aerith and Nanaki are so each other’s safe place. Why they would all choose to follow Cloud, and believe in him as their leader, even when on many occasions he gives them room for doubt.

There are honestly soo many layers to the cast of FFVII, and I haven’t even touched on the links that unify Cait Sith, Cid, and Vincent to this merry band of misfits.

You’ll have already seen from my previous posts that as far as Final Fantasy VII is concerned, my heart belongs to its characters. Rebirth is a shining example of why these characters are so beloved. And it’s why when certain moments neglect them, forget them, or do them wrong in a story sense, it stands out.

But I ultimately have faith in the developers that they are wise enough to know how cherished this cast is, how important it is to deliver on their arcs and their stories. I respect their understanding, and their ambitions to also weave them all into this ever growing tapestry of destiny and fate that is unwieldy and arguably burdensome, but as long as they remember to keep coming back to the characters, their emotions and their feelings, and what their own desires and dreams are, there is nothing to suggest they can’t deliver on a resounding and satisfying finale.

That said, selfishly, I do just want them all to be happy.

These are characters that have been in my life, and many, many other fans, for over 20 years. I would love for them, more than anything, to get the endings they deserve.

Love this and have to agree, as much as I don't want characters are story to be driven by some LTD agenda, I do want to see the characters happy and fulfilled. This is partially also why I want them to address and maybe retcon some things in P3 from the wider compilation, which includes AC. Hell give me an epilogue post AC where people are happy please, would like to see that.

All this being said, i've enjoyed your posts here, so what's your take on where things inevitably end up by the end of P3. The "everyone being happy" is something the developers have even hinted at, and you'd have to figure that by the end of P3 the only way to actually make everyone happy is CT and ZA in terms of the LTD right? Because at this point they've come too far by the end of Rebirth that CA would basically crap on large chunks of the story and buildup they've told in Remake and Rebirth, as well as crap on quite a few of the main cast

 

[AncientGrimoire]

All this being said, i've enjoyed your posts here, so what's your take on where things inevitably end up by the end of P3. The "everyone being happy" is something the developers have even hinted at, and you'd have to figure that by the end of P3 the only way to actually make everyone happy is CT and ZA in terms of the LTD right? Because at this point they've come too far by the end of Rebirth that CA would basically crap on large chunks of the story and buildup they've told in Remake and Rebirth, as well as crap on quite a few of the main cast

Ultimately my take on where things are going to end up by the end of Part 3 is primarily based on two things.

What and more importantly where the developers themselves have stated as being the natural endpoint for the trilogy, give or take a few different beats here or there.

And secondly what Remake and Rebirth have within their texts to support what the developers have said.

This really all comes down to the many times it’s been stated that Advent Children is the endpoint, that the trilogy will “link” up to it, and while there will be changes here and there, the story won’t be going out of its way so that things don’t sort of naturally fit into the world state of Advent Children.

Now this can mean a lot of different things at the end of the day.

Fundamentally I take this to mean that, the ending will establish the survival of our main cast (Cloud, Barret, Tifa, Nanaki, Yuffie, Cait Sith, Vincent, Cid) and the deaths of those whose presence in Advent Children was in the form of “Lifestream spirits” for want of a better term (in this case, Zack and Aerith).

I’m not going to go into all the other endgame world state points but mostly stick to where I personally expect things to end up.

Cloud and Tifa choosing to stick together (OtWtaS, “You’ve always had me”, “But I know what that means now”)

Barret (this one of my big HOPES there will be more) choosing to stick around longer with Cloud and Tifa at the newly opened Seventh Heaven in Edge, so he can spend time with Marlene, and accept that his very actions of helping to save the planet should negate his need to still feel like he has to atone for the mistakes of his past (especially as OtWtaS establishes he seeks alternative energy sources and settles on oil)

Nanaki returning home to Cosmo Canyon, reuniting with Deneh, taking on the mantle of Watcher of the Vale, but also (fantic hat firmly on) still travels the world and checks in on the rest of the gang. He’ll eventually be a proud daddo to some pups/kitties so I’d like his story of raising the two bear cubs from OtWtaS to still be a thing.

Yuffie is more tricky, as I honestly don’t know yet what they’ll do with Wutai in Part 3.

Same goes for Cait Sith, as I reckon they’ll be doing something different with Reeve, but I fully expect the World Regenesis Organisation to still be a thing.

Vincent will still brood probably in the Crystal Cave, unless they also choose to do things differently with his backstory with Lucrecia in Part 3 (like maybe not have her say she’s sorry every other sentence?! fingers crossed )

And Cid is in a similar position to Yuffie, as all of his major moments are being saved for Part 3 and I expect their to be tweaks and changes (ultimately of the good kind)

I’ve already in another post shared my theory if you like about the reunion of Zack and Aerith that has been building since Remake, and I fully expect Part 3 to go all in on Zack and Aerith.

Crisis Core Reunion’s very existence, and Zack still being around in the story for Part 3, is the easiest confirmation for me that the developers have planned something regarding Zack and Aerith.

I hope it’s a happy and satisfying one for the both of them.

Advent Children was very brief on any significant moments between the two, but I burst into tears the first time I saw the ending, where Cloud looks up and sees Aerith with the two children in the background, before leaving with Zack, not before saying to Cloud that everything is alright.

Again, they deliberately made the decision to have Advent Children re screened in cinemas.

And that moment with Aerith and Zack quite literally walking off into the sunset together is the final moment, before we return to Cloud’s perspective where he looks to Tifa and the rest of the team and he says that he’ll be ok, because he isn’t alone anymore.

Another looong post, my apologies, but yeah, in essence this is sort of where I expect we’ll end up.

The final destination anyway.

The journey of us getting there I expect to have it’s differences, but I ideally would like the happier resolutions to all the characters and their stories be moved from Advent Children to the ending of Part 3.

If Part 3 really is to be the final part of the compilation, and not just the trilogy, then they need to have that positive resolution, one where we have a clear understanding and appreciation for where the characters have ended up.

Just my two cents anyway

 

[Hix]

I mean, let's not dance around the heart of the matter: CA is an assassination on the characters, plot and ultimately vision of the creators of Final Fantasy VII.

Shipping is absolutely harmless, don't get me wrong, but this ship itself is particularly egregious because it destroys so many things about the characters that so many people hold dear.

It takes Cloud and turns him into a thankless, gormless grunt who switches affections on a dime and is all too quick (like literally within a week) to succumb to his base desires and twist the knife on his best friend who died that he may live. Following Aerith's death, Cloud - the Cleriths say - refuses to move on (only Aerith is encouraged to do that, and only once) but gives up on life at the grand old age of 21, acting a dick to his family and waiting to die.

Aerith becomes a bit of a floozy who is aware of her friend Tifa's long standing affections for Cloud yet doesn't care enough about her or them to let that stop her. Her enduring romantic feelings for Zack, for whom she never got resolution and continues to wait for, are either ignored or shown to be of temporary importance such that either Cloud and Zack are interchangable as the situation requires. After her death, she becomes one of the most wicked people in fiction, actively coming between Cloud and his family, fueling his depression and encouraging him to join her in death.

Tifa transforms into a nothing character, having no role, no impact, no future. Just as with Cloud, their shared history, promise and affections - the catalyst for FF7 - are erased and count ultimately for nothing. Her character arc ends with her being alone, frustrated and without purpose or direction. Tifa is the biggest casualty of CA in my opinion, because her entire narrative arc - for better or worse - is about supporting, healing and being the other half of Cloud. She's the love interest and removing that, you remove her.

My bro Zack? Man he's just such a pain, wouldn't it be so great if he'd just stay away? In any case, CA turns Zack into the most miserable good guy ever - a real textbook example of nice guys finishing last. He's going to get cucked by his best friend then die and, for some reason, Aerith let's him exist in the Lifestream so he can watch himself get cucked for all eternity. He'll do many good things, but he'll never be rewarded for it.

Other characters are collateral damage in it all. Denzel, hasn't the kid suffered enough, gets to watch his adopted father teach him valuable lessons like "life isn't worth living anymore" and "I prefer the dead person to the people who stick by me in life". Barret, who actively encourages Cloud to hook up with Tifa (including in his Rebirth GS date) may as well talk to a wall, one can only imagine how many arguments would come out of the selfishness of it all.

It's all depressing, but if that's all it is then fair enough. But it's not. This is not what any fan of the franchise, anyone who claims to love the characters, should desire.

 

[Rose Alive]

I saw a new take on the Tifa "pity" kiss. Now apparently the devs let Cloud kiss Tifa because Cloud and Aerith get NPTK, so the devs had to throw something at Tifa to not alienate the Clotis.

I hope the theme song for part three is about something completely random and neutral like da-chao beans.

 

[Yumelinh]

Still trying to catch up with this thread, so there's probably a few things that have already been pointed out before, and I still like 70% of the game, but I really wanted to talk about Aerith's character in Rebirth, since I've been thinking about her characterization a lot these past few days.

I'll start by saying that I adore Aerith, be it in the OG, CC, or whatever - I simply never had a problem with her character or her relationship with Cloud. Personally, I never felt she was a threat to Cloud and Tifa to begin with, since I joined the fandom online when the Compilation was already running. So, I like to believe I have always been able to enjoy their moments without much worry in this aspect as well (my gripe has always been at SE and the way they handle things lol). Another thing worth mentioning is that I don't dislike Rebirth!Aerith, and that's probably because I'm playing with JP voiceovers (no shade to Brianna here, she's doing great! It's just that Sakamoto IS Aerith...she just embodies her character in a way that only someone who's been playing a character for so many years does), and most of the time her interactions feel so fun and lighthearted as they should be. But I did feel like something was 'missing' in this Aerith (and it was not just her memories... or maybe that was precisely it that made such a difference). So, in short, my main problem with Rebirth!Aerith is that Remake!Aerith exists, and the former falls short in comparison to the latter.

Aerith in Remake was just so well-written! She's fun but introspective, like someone who was using jokes and smiles to hide the pain. She liked to tease but wasn't that pushy, she lightened the mood but knew how to respect it when a moment called for it. Even her interactions with Cloud felt much more endearing in Remake when you compare them with their moments in Rebirth. The rooftop date was sweet and light, them not wanting to part ways in the park was cute, and their time in Wall Market was fun, with Aerith being as laser-focused on saving Tifa as Cloud was. Even though she still teased him here and there, this was a great demonstration of Aerith knowing how to respect a moment when it calls for it.

And that's why, even though I understand this Aerith doesn't have all the memories Remake!Aerith had, I'm a little disappointed in how they handled her character in what was supposed to be her game. Again, I don't feel like it was as terrible as many have painted it, but in comparison with Remake!Aerith, I definitely feel a downgrade. She lacked a certain awareness of the mood and was a little more pushy than she used to be, and even her moments with Cloud didn't feel as endearing as the ones in Remake (but I'm a Cloti, so take this statement with a grain of salt). So, in conclusion, Remake!Aerith was amazing, and I guess many fans are just missing her previous characterization.

I'm now actually hoping even more for SE to bring her back in Part 3. I don't want the ending of her character to be here in Rebirth. They missed a few steps with her characterization and completely messed up her death. This is just not how a character as beloved and icon as she is should end her journey, not at all.

 

[Stiggie]

Still trying to catch up with this thread, so there's probably a few things that have already been pointed out before, and I still like 70% of the game, but I really wanted to talk about Aerith's character in Rebirth, since I've been thinking about her characterization a lot these past few days.

I'll start by saying that I adore Aerith, be it in the OG, CC, or whatever - I simply never had a problem with her character or her relationship with Cloud. Personally, I never felt she was a threat to Cloud and Tifa to begin with, since I joined the fandom online when the Compilation was already running. So, I like to believe I have always been able to enjoy their moments without much worry in this aspect as well (my gripe has always been at SE and the way they handle things lol). Another thing worth mentioning is that I don't dislike Rebirth!Aerith, and that's probably because I'm playing with JP voiceovers (no shade to Brianna here, she's doing great! It's just that Sakamoto IS Aerith...she just embodies her character in a way that only someone who's been playing a character for so many years does), and most of the time her interactions feel so fun and lighthearted as they should be. But I did feel like something was 'missing' in this Aerith (and it was not just her memories... or maybe that was precisely it that made such a difference). So, in short, my main problem with Rebirth!Aerith is that Remake!Aerith exists, and the former falls short in comparison to the latter.

Aerith in Remake was just so well-written! She's fun but introspective, like someone who was using jokes and smiles to hide the pain. She liked to tease but wasn't that pushy, she lightened the mood but knew how to respect it when a moment called for it. Even her interactions with Cloud felt much more endearing in Remake when you compare them with their moments in Rebirth. The rooftop date was sweet and light, them not wanting to part ways in the park was cute, and their time in Wall Market was fun, with Aerith being as laser-focused on saving Tifa as Cloud was. Even though she still teased him here and there, this was a great demonstration of Aerith knowing how to respect a moment when it calls for it.

And that's why, even though I understand this Aerith doesn't have all the memories Remake!Aerith had, I'm a little disappointed in how they handled her character in what was supposed to be her game. Again, I don't feel like it was as terrible as many have painted it, but in comparison with Remake!Aerith, I definitely feel a downgrade. She lacked a certain awareness of the mood and was a little more pushy than she used to be, and even her moments with Cloud didn't feel as endearing as the ones in Remake (but I'm a Cloti, so take this statement with a grain of salt). So, in conclusion, Remake!Aerith was amazing, and I guess many fans are just missing her previous characterization.

I'm now actually hoping even more for SE to bring her back in Part 3. I don't want the ending of her character to be here in Rebirth. They missed a few steps with her characterization and completely messed up her death. This is just not how a character as beloved and icon as she is should end her journey, not at all.

All of this is why I really hated Remake Aerith. Because she didn't feel like a person to me, she didn't feel like OG Aerith, and I didn't like that. She didn't feel like a girl figuring out her destiny, she didn't feel a part of the party. I consider Aerith to be the worst handled character in Remake.

I hate what Rebirth did to the story in general as well as some of Aeriths actions, but Aeriths personality itself was a massive improvement to me in Rebirth.

 

[starcape91]

Still trying to catch up with this thread, so there's probably a few things that have already been pointed out before, and I still like 70% of the game, but I really wanted to talk about Aerith's character in Rebirth, since I've been thinking about her characterization a lot these past few days.

I'll start by saying that I adore Aerith, be it in the OG, CC, or whatever - I simply never had a problem with her character or her relationship with Cloud. Personally, I never felt she was a threat to Cloud and Tifa to begin with, since I joined the fandom online when the Compilation was already running. So, I like to believe I have always been able to enjoy their moments without much worry in this aspect as well (my gripe has always been at SE and the way they handle things lol). Another thing worth mentioning is that I don't dislike Rebirth!Aerith, and that's probably because I'm playing with JP voiceovers (no shade to Brianna here, she's doing great! It's just that Sakamoto IS Aerith...she just embodies her character in a way that only someone who's been playing a character for so many years does), and most of the time her interactions feel so fun and lighthearted as they should be. But I did feel like something was 'missing' in this Aerith (and it was not just her memories... or maybe that was precisely it that made such a difference). So, in short, my main problem with Rebirth!Aerith is that Remake!Aerith exists, and the former falls short in comparison to the latter.

Aerith in Remake was just so well-written! She's fun but introspective, like someone who was using jokes and smiles to hide the pain. She liked to tease but wasn't that pushy, she lightened the mood but knew how to respect it when a moment called for it. Even her interactions with Cloud felt much more endearing in Remake when you compare them with their moments in Rebirth. The rooftop date was sweet and light, them not wanting to part ways in the park was cute, and their time in Wall Market was fun, with Aerith being as laser-focused on saving Tifa as Cloud was. Even though she still teased him here and there, this was a great demonstration of Aerith knowing how to respect a moment when it calls for it.

And that's why, even though I understand this Aerith doesn't have all the memories Remake!Aerith had, I'm a little disappointed in how they handled her character in what was supposed to be her game. Again, I don't feel like it was as terrible as many have painted it, but in comparison with Remake!Aerith, I definitely feel a downgrade. She lacked a certain awareness of the mood and was a little more pushy than she used to be, and even her moments with Cloud didn't feel as endearing as the ones in Remake (but I'm a Cloti, so take this statement with a grain of salt). So, in conclusion, Remake!Aerith was amazing, and I guess many fans are just missing her previous characterization.

I'm now actually hoping even more for SE to bring her back in Part 3. I don't want the ending of her character to be here in Rebirth. They missed a few steps with her characterization and completely messed up her death. This is just not how a character as beloved and icon as she is should end her journey, not at all.

You make some interesting points and I felt similarly. And this is coming from someone who didn't particularly like Aerith in the OG - Remake turned me around on her and I enjoyed her a lot more than I thought I would. From what I've been seeing, those who liked her in Remake tend to like her less in Rebirth, and those who disliked her in Remake tend to like her more in Rebirth.

I think that she is closer to her personality from OG in Rebirth. I think part of the reason they removed her memories from her was so that certain moments from the OG could be recreated faithfully. You couldn't really have her going on a date at the Gold Saucer with Cloud if she knew for certain that Cloud is in love with Tifa.

In Remake, as soon as Tifa rejoins the party in the sewers, Aerith immediately steps back. She doesn't tease Cloud nearly as much, and Tifa and Cloud immediately pick up where they left off. In Rebirth when Cloud is telling his story, Tifa says she couldn't sleep the night before the SOLDIERS arrived, Cloud says it was the same for him. Aerith just cocks her head, totally confused and says "Why?" Remake Aerith would've already known.

 

[Stiggie]

But I ultimately have faith in the developers that they are wise enough to know how cherished this cast is, how important it is to deliver on their arcs and their stories. I respect their understanding, and their ambitions to also weave them all into this ever growing tapestry of destiny and fate that is unwieldy and arguably burdensome, but as long as they remember to keep coming back to the characters, their emotions and their feelings, and what their own desires and dreams are, there is nothing to suggest they can’t deliver on a resounding and satisfying finale.

This is probably my problem, I don't have that faith, at all. I see them doing good things, but I also see them taking Wedge an making literally every single interaction with him a fat joke.
I care for the characters, but I also care for the story, and I think you can't have one without the other. If the story changes the characters change, and vice versa. And while at times I feel like they get the story they made, there are other times where I feel they seem to have missed what made their story great SO much that it makes me think the quality of the original was just a fluke.

When they decide, in Rebirt, to make Aeriths death not a somber occasion, but a spectacle thrillride with 10 Sephiroth fights it makes me wonder what the hell these people are thinking. I wanted to see a story that respects the original. As far as I'm concerned I will now never get to see Aeriths death with modern visuals, instead I have this weird circus, done as change for the sake of change, so "the fans would have something new to look forward to", which now that I have seen it once is no longer new either, new once, and now for ever more not as timeless. Same when I see stuff like Marlene saying Aerith likes Cloud, which even with the "as a friend" interpretation is still just done in such a fan baiting way that it makes me worried they're more interested in over dramatizing the characters into sillyness rather than just having them be genuine.

 

[Yumelinh]

All of this is why I really hated Remake Aerith. Because she didn't feel like a person to me, she didn't feel like OG Aerith, and I didn't like that. She didn't feel like a girl figuring out her destiny, she didn't feel a part of the party. I consider Aerith to be the worst handled character in Remake.

I hate what Rebirth did to the story in general as well as some of Aeriths actions, but Aeriths personality itself was a massive improvement to me in Rebirth.

Very valid take ( even tho I feel the opposote as per my post). Rebirth!Aerith does feel more like OG Aerith, but I personally think they were able to handle her well in Remake while still maintaining the essence of OG. Also, I'd say it's hard to judge her relationship with the rest of the party because P1 covers only Midgar where she was just introducted to most of them.

But the elephant in the room is definitely the fact that she clearly knew the future, so can see why some people just couldn't connect with character properly. Still, I didn't expected her character to change so much just because she doesn't know the future anymore, idk.

You make some interesting points and I felt similarly. And this is coming from someone who didn't particularly like Aerith in the OG - Remake turned me around on her and I enjoyed her a lot more than I thought I would. From what I've been seeing, those who liked her in Remake tend to like her less in Rebirth, and those who disliked her in Remake tend to like her more in Rebirth.

I think that she is closer to her personality from OG in Rebirth. I think part of the reason they removed her memories from her was so that certain moments from the OG could be recreated faithfully. You couldn't really have her going on a date at the Gold Saucer with Cloud if she knew for certain that Cloud is in love with Tifa.

In Remake, as soon as Tifa rejoins the party in the sewers, Aerith immediately steps back. She doesn't tease Cloud nearly as much, and Tifa and Cloud immediately pick up where they left off. In Rebirth when Cloud is telling his story, Tifa says she couldn't sleep the night before the SOLDIERS arrived, Cloud says it was the same for him. Aerith just cocks her head, totally confused and says "Why?" Remake Aerith would've already known.

Yeah, I agree! It does feel like the sole reason they removed her memories at the ending of Remake was so she could be more carefree in Rebirth, and while I do understand the necessity of that, it does feel weird that we are playing with a Aerith so different from P1. Especially when we have Red that also lost whatever memories from the future he had, but still feels like P1 Red somehow.

All in all I guess I just a little disappointed in how they handled Aerith and her main scenes here. I don't really feel like this was a good way to part with her character

 

[Maidenofwar]

I've saw some people say it's fine the way they did it because it's Cloud's game not Aerith’s but Aerith was the one who ended up in the New York Times and many other articles over the years. This game was supposed to be her swansong so I don't blame anyone who feels a little short changed especially if it's not something they have planned to pay off later in the third game to some extent.

I don't think my interpretation of OG CA is as toxic/poisonous/messed up as some think the ship, but I was fine that things would still end up leading up into AC anyway but I really wanted Aerith and Zack to live again somehow.

 

[Hellenic]

Sharing because misery loves company.
Why in the bloody hell did I do this to myself? God, this made my brain melt out of my ears.
View attachment 14890View attachment 14891View attachment 14892View attachment 14893

Why are these people like this. I just can't.

 

[Hellenic]

"All creative leads have said Hollow is about Cloud's dedication to Aerith."

Am I the only one who's sick of these songs being used as pure shipping fodder? When Cloud thinks Zack drowned in the river, he says : "Zack was my friend. How could I just forget him like that? Degradation. It's hollowing me out bit by bit..."

I don't get why they put so much value on some songs for their stupid ships. I swear there's the games to give you better and clearer answers out here. I genuinely am tired of any song debates at this point, couse it's all pointless anyway.

 

[Hellenic]

Very valid take ( even tho I feel the opposote as per my post). Rebirth!Aerith does feel more like OG Aerith, but I personally think they were able to handle her well in Remake while still maintaining the essence of OG. Also, I'd say it's hard to judge her relationship with the rest of the party because P1 covers only Midgar where she was just introducted to most of them.

But the elephant in the room is definitely the fact that she clearly knew the future, so can see why some people just couldn't connect with character properly. Still, I didn't expected her character to change so much just because she doesn't know the future anymore, idk.



Yeah, I agree! It does feel like the sole reason they removed her memories at the ending of Remake was so she could be more carefree in Rebirth, and while I do understand the necessity of that, it does feel weird that we are playing with a Aerith so different from P1. Especially when we have Red that also lost whatever memories from the future he had, but still feels like P1 Red somehow.

All in all I guess I just a little disappointed in how they handled Aerith and her main scenes here. I don't really feel like this was a good way to part with her character

I definitely would've prefererred seeing more of the knowledgeable Aerith here too instead of them just conveniently erasing all her Lifestream knowledge for this game.

 

[Hellenic]

I hate that I can see this actually happening...

The denial will never end.

 

[Rin]

Currently going through all the dates and it's really hard to take the CA one seriously when Aerith says she can't find the real Cloud despite trying so hard to find him.

She even says it's not his face or his clothes that makes her think of Zack, but rather it's way he carries himself and his body language that makes it impossible for her to see anyone but Zack even though she knows they're different people.

While she does say that it's ok that they're different bc right now she wants to be with him, she, in the same breath is acknowledging that she is not with him because this is not the real Cloud.

When she says, "Just until the ride's over" I truly got the impression that she knows it's wrong to use him as a Zack stand-in but she can't help it because it's too tempting although she very clearly does feel bad about it. This is why she's happy when he grabs her hand because it feels like he's giving her permission to continue her fantasy.

But again, that's just my interpretation. I just can't look at that scene and confidently say, "Yes, Aerith likes Cloud for Cloud" when she plainly stated that whenever she looks at him she sees another man even though she doesn't want to.

Edit to add: She also thanks him for it after the ride which would be a weird thing to do if she was genuinely just enjoying her time with Cloud. Even he's confused and says he didn't do anything lol. But if she's thanking him for letting her live out her delusions, that makes sense to me.

 

[Graymouse]

I came across this on Twitter. Take it however you want to.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1360652320782966786

 

[faefolk]

I came across this on Twitter. Take it however you want to.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1360652320782966786

This is the greatest haha. Iconic.

 

[Dashell]

I loved flawed characters so Aerith being flawed has never bothered me, personally. I also think the fandom is just a bit too harsh overall, although I understand why her actions may trigger some people. But ultimately, as I told a friend of mine, if Tifa isn't bothered than neither am I.

If part of the storyline were to genuinely be about Aerith hurting Tifa with these actions (as it was depicted in the OG) then I would feel more strongly about it all. As it is currently, other than one singular confused "huh?" Tifa doesn't bat an eyelash at CA, so I don't either. The one who IS actively being hurt by this plot is Zack but it's not like Aerith is doing it in front of his face, so it's not something that should reflect poorly on her character in my opinion.

Hey thanks, I think people are being too hard on Aerith. She always seemed to me like someone who says what she's feeling at the time and isn't afraid to do so. Like in Nibelheim when Cloud asks if she's mad she basically said she's just jealous because she didn't have any close friends growing up. A lot of people see this as selfish but I saw it as just her honest feelings at the time. I mean Cloud asked, and maybe it wasn't the best time to bring that up, but to me it seemed like Cloud genuinely wanted to know. And she felt close enough to him that she knew she could be honest.

As you said, Tifa doesn't really react to Aerith in a bad way. They're practically bffs so I don't get all the negative views I see of her trying to get in the way and what not.

Same with when Cloud is talking about Jessie on their date and she says, "Was she a girlfriend? You're kind of clueless about this stuff." Okay, yes, probably not the best thing to say. But Aerith is the type of person who wants to cheer people up or try to lighten a mood and I think that's just how she tried to do that there. By teasing Cloud.

Obviously I've seen heat towards Tifa as well, but just as I don't think the writers intentions were to make Tifa this clingy, weak willed woman who tries to take advantage of Cloud, I don't think Aerith is this selfish, manipulative character who only cares about dating Cloud.

 

[thetriplerhyme]

When she says, "Just until the ride's over" I truly got the impression that she knows it's wrong to use him as a Zack stand-in but she can't help it because it's too tempting although she very clearly does feel bad about it. This is why she's happy when he grabs her hand because it feels like he's giving her permission to continue her fantasy.

But again, that's just my interpretation. I just can't look at that scene and confidently say, "Yes, Aerith likes Cloud for Cloud" when she plainly stated that whenever she looks at him she sees another man even though she doesn't want to.

Edit to add: She also thanks him for it after the ride which would be a weird thing to do if she was genuinely just enjoying her time with Cloud. Even he's confused and says he didn't do anything lol. But if she's thanking him for letting her live out her delusions, that makes sense to me.

- the entire C/A date is the same thing with OG but what's the difference now and many people can see it? Because their reactions and facial expression. Not just by words but their reactions.

Aerith who supposed to be happy with Cloud yet talking about someone else.. and when Cloud said " but i'm right here.." you can see she felt down because she just said it but Cloud never gets it.

Just as Aerith says:

She even says it's not his face or his clothes that makes her think of Zack, but rather it's way he carries himself and his body language that makes it impossible for her to see anyone but Zack even though she knows they're different people.

- people had misunderstanding in OG she's referring to real cloud but we know she's actually referring to her own feelings. She cannot see CLOUD AT ALL because all he represents in front of her is ZACK.

 

[dazzze]

Not a shipper (the only ship I love is Zack x being alive), and I'm in a weird position when it comes to the LTD, I think. I'm probably alone in this.
I don't think the romance was done good with EITHER girls. (For context, I'm female IRL, just stating that because there was a comment earlier about how girlies tend to trend towards CA).

I like Tifa, shes just sort of OK, I like moments where she shows extreme emotions (anger and happiness) and breaks out of her shell, but her and Cloud are just... awkward. I know they are supposed to be awkward, but before they kissed, they just came off as really good friends. Little touches here and there, people actually do that in real life to friends, surprise surprise. The lingering glances are a bit less subtle, but other than that... eh. I get the whole childhood crush thing, but even Tifa admits in the return to Nibel that she doesnt know Cloud as well as she thought she did. Yeah Cloud is a mess (getting to that later) but they went from kids, to not knowing each other for five years, to getting back together on a friendship that has a lot of lies and untruths to it? (Don't kill me for this lol)

Aerith on the other hand comes across as a girl desperate for love; manic and trying to put together what she had before Zack went missing with someone else, but that someone else is nowhere near as responsive as the man she actually fell in love with. I find her and Clouds dynamic cuter because extrovert x introvert, but she pushes him so much that it gets uncomfortable at times. Like Tifa, she doesn't really understand him either. The last date at the church seems like shes trying to grasp at straws and Cloud can't play along.

It makes sense that Cloti is the endgame, but if Aerith hadn't died... I wouldn't be so sure. And that in itself kind of messes me up in a few ways thinking about it.

Anyway, Cloud is too fucked up to be considering a relationship. I wish the relationship stuff wasn't so big a focus, I know I'm in the minority on that, but its just so tedious. Hes clearly going through a ton mentally and spiritually (Sephy stuff) and I feel like part 3 is going to be rough when it comes to the mind-fixing segment in the LS, its now gonna be full of memories of Aerith to balance out Tifa and blah blah blah. Anyway, just rambling here.

TDLR; Zack Fair is a king amongst men and deserves more than any other character in the romance subplot of this RPG game can give him.

 

[Stiggie]

As you said, Tifa doesn't really react to Aerith in a bad way

Kinda makes it worse, makes Tifa feel more innocent because Tifa clearly just trusts Aerith, which makes it feel more icky when we the player feel that Aerith is betraying that trust.

Obviously I've seen heat towards Tifa as well, but just as I don't think the writers intentions were to make Tifa this clingy, weak willed woman who tries to take advantage of Cloud, I don't think Aerith is this selfish, manipulative character who only cares about dating Cloud.

Yeah, they never intended for Aeriths actions to make her unlikable I think, but whether or not they are is kind of independent of that.

I do think it's possible to misrepresent a character, I've seen it done with Tifa a bunch of times where her actions in not telling Cloud are portrayed by critics as selfish and not caring about Clouds feelings. The difference is that in those cases the mindset of Tifa is being very clearly misrepresented, which means the criticisms aren't valid, while with Aerith it's not that the mindset is misrepresented, but that the developers intended for that mindset to be less worthy of criticism than the players do.

 

[Eerie]

I think Aerith has a few problems, some which are not linked to her directly but maybe were overlooked.

First, of course, the too many cooks problem. Aerith is very inconsistent because she has not been written the same way in her side quests and in the main quests. When Nojima writes her, she is fine. When Hamaguchi's team writes her is when you go either "oh that's sweet" or "mmh Aerith, you're going too far", because even during the sidequests only, you have this feeling of too many cooks in the kitchen, so it feels inconsistent. Sometimes she is just there, but she's placed always with Cloud doing nothing (??? why, just let someone of your party there, it's weird), sometimes she's all over Cloud, sometimes she's forming bonds with Red, and sometimes we see that she and Tifa bond.

Which leads me to my second problem: the AerTi friendship is here, but it's less good than what it was in Remake. In Remake they probably had fewer scenes, but we SAW them bonding, chatting, being girl friends. We saw Tifa comforting her, we saw Aerith supporting Tifa. It was VERY well done. In Rebirth, we see that they HAD conversations, but we see NOTHING of these. We are meant to UNDERSTAND that they bond and become true friends, but we don't see it ONSCREEN - we aren't really sure about what they talked about - in fact I don't feel that we see them interacting that much outside Costa del Sol and a few scenes. And when we see them interacting, because it's Cloud's POV, we are not shown what they're on about - which makes Costa del Sol even more important in that regard but I don't remember things that really made me go "oh nice" compared to Aerith's conversation with Red there.

And it's another problem that's a bit related, but the game with Aerith ASSUMES THAT YOU HAVE READ TOTP. Which is simply not true for the vast majority of fans, only a few will have read it, in comparison. Like when she talks about her childhood and her loneliness in Cosmo Canyon, it's really hard to connect to this because the game haven't shown you, aside that ONE scene in REMAKE how it was and felt. And that one scene when she was lost was GREAT! It made fans connect with her but some have never even played REMAKE, it was definitely something they should have went on: maybe even in a cutscene in Gongaga where Aerith talks to Tifa about Zack and how he changed her life after Cloud's blunt line. That would have been great and connect a lot of things and allowed us INTO Aerith's character.

Of course adding Aerith's world where it's NOT "our" Aerith even adds to the confusion: how many people have noticed that it wasn't "our" Aerith?

And at the same time, my husband definitely came off as not liking her here. Basically told me she was a manipulative bitch and I know why he's feeling this way, it's because we knew a guy who acted exactly like this (spent a lot of time stealing his friends' girlfriends, I'm not kidding). So I see where people who absolutely can't accept this type of behaviour come from; it's just there is much more to Aerith BUT you have to really dissect her and what's happening to understand this. Which a lot won't do, or can't do, shipping googles or not.

@dazzze have you played the OG? If not I can maybe understand your statement, but there is a lot to unpack on the CT side still. Aerith stood no chance at all, ever because of how Cloud was impacted by Tifa in their childhood.