SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[SilverSisu]

Exactly.

And I'd like to remind people: Where and when do we see dead characters appear in the Lifestream to help our group?

Nowhere and never. Aerith's mother to guide her? No. Tifa's parent when she fell into the mako pool? No. Just her memories of their voices, they're not there.
Why not? Because that's not how the Lifestream works. When you die, you dissolve in it.

So why did Cloud see Aerith and Zack? Two possibilities:

• It's just in Cloud's head. As Nomura implied, dead poeple are not here, that's your memories of it. Typical "Always in your heart" type of things.
• Aerith is different of others Cetras. The chosen one. So she has powers other don't have. And she chose to keep Zack close and always with her.

What's telling us ? :

• That the mental image of a now happy and appeased Cloud is to see Aerith and Zack reunited and happy in the Lifestream.
• That Zack is much more than a friend. If not, I can't imagine what a bad person Aerith would be to prevent Zack from "going back to the light" just to keep him as a puppy dog until Cloud dies.

Conclusion :
ZA is real. Is concrete. That's the star crossed lover of this story some are desperate to include. It's right here. You don't have to bring Cloud into this. They're meant to each other. In life as in death.

I mostly agree with you but i have to make one tiny correction. Aerith came to help Cloud and healed him in AC when he was fighting Bahamut. If Aerith hadn't come to save Cloud then Bahamut would have killed him for sure.

Also Zack offered his help in a fight against Sephiroth but Cloud refused. He wanted to kill Sephiroth himself.

It is true that when regular people die their souls dissolve into mako energy but cetras like Aerith can keep their physical bodies and conscience intact if they want. Also strong enough individuals like Zack can do the same. Maybe this has something to do with the Jenova cells all soldiers have?

 

[ChaosandConfusion]

I thought even the cetras dissolve eventually.

 

[SilverSisu]

I thought even the cetras dissolve eventually.

No. Cetras dissolve only if they want to dissolve and give their souls to the planet.

This was explained in on the way to a smile novel.

 

[abzy1200]

This is a phrase I've been seeing a lot lately, and I'm curious where it's coming from. When was Cloud unextraordinary? He got skinned knees from a fall that put Tifa in a coma. He's a prodigy with swords who seems to be taught by experience and observation alone. I'd say to ask the Ravens how ordinary Cloud is but oops Cloud flipped his shit and killed them.

Cloud didn't need to accept his unextraordinary self, he needed to accept that he was extraordinary with or without getting into SOLDIER. Cloud always had the potential to be a hero, what he had to learn is that he's worthy of Tifa because Tifa says so, not dependent on him being in SOLDIER or anything else

Ah, I just kind of worded it wrong.

I meant him accepting that he never had to become "extraordinary" to be accepted.

so basically what you said, yeah.

 

[SilverSisu]

Do you think Aerith will have a big role in part 3? Or just be non existent until the end like in OG?

Big role. Aerith's role must be atleast as big as Zack's role in part 3. It's impossible to have it any other way. Aerith's and Zack's story are intertwined and devs have stated that Zack's role will be immensely important and crucial. Hamaguchi even called Zack a "key character"

Cloud breaching the fate and creating a world where Aerith is alive would fit the narrative of Zack being transported into another world. I think Zack and Aerith will reunite there.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

I mostly agree with you but i have to make one tiny correction. Aerith came to help Cloud and healed him in AC when he was fighting Bahamut. If Aerith hadn't come to save Cloud then Bahamut would have killed him for sure.

Small correction to your small correction, Aerith does not seem to heal Cloud during the Bahamut fight. Rather she helps with his attack like every single living party member, in her case seemingly using her Fury Brand limit to enable Cloud's Climhazzard The healing occurs later during the fight with Kadaj.

 

[SilverSisu]

Small correction to your small correction, Aerith does not seem to heal Cloud during the Bahamut fight. Rather she helps with his attack like every single living party member, in her case seemingly using her Fury Brand limit to enable Cloud's Climhazzard The healing occurs later during the fight with Kadaj.

Really? It seemed that Cloud would have died when he pushed through Bahamut's attack and survived only because Aerith came from the lifestream and healed him.

 

[Sacky]

Do you think Aerith will have a big role in part 3? Or just be non existent until the end like in OG?

I predict after northern crater we will get a Zack and Aerith chapter to fill in the time. What that plot is though I have no idea the reunion at the church will happen first and then Aerith and Zack combat probably which would be really good fanservice maybe mimicking the sector 5 chapter in Remake. Sephiroth is Probably doing something there, I just can't tell what the storyline for them will be they could do anything honestly.

 

[SilverSisu]

I predict after northern crater we will get a Zack and Aerith chapter to fill in the time. What that plot is though I have no idea the reunion at the church will happen first and then Aerith and Zack combat probably which would be really good fanservice maybe mimicking the sector 5 chapter in Remake. Sephiroth is Probably doing something there, I just can't tell what the storyline for them will be they could do anything honestly.

I'd expect Zack and Aerith having few (maybe 3 or so) chapters together + appearing helping the party in the final fight.

 

[Eerie]

Honestly they just left at Aerith's death when they should've pushed to the NC scene. Because there is a BIG CHUNK of the OG left to narrate in ONE game now, and thus even if Aerith and Zack have an important role, I'm not sure that screen-wise it will be that big. The fact that we just left Aerith behind too leads me to believe it'll take a while before we see her again - maybe after the NC scene? And I'm not sure her and Zack will reunite right away, she still have things to figure out before reuniting with him IMHO.

 

[Sacky]

Honestly they just left at Aerith's death when they should've pushed to the NC scene. Because there is a BIG CHUNK of the OG left to narrate in ONE game now, and thus even if Aerith and Zack have an important role, I'm not sure that screen-wise it will be that big. The fact that we just left Aerith behind too leads me to believe it'll take a while before we see her again - maybe after the NC scene? And I'm not sure her and Zack will reunite right away, she still have things to figure out before reuniting with him IMHO.

It's weird there's a lot of rebirth that I feel could have been cut mainly Corel prison to just win the chocobo race and head straight to dyne section. Then they could have expanded Zacks section to him helping Biggs in the reactor with actual fights with a scorpion sentinel fight and then end it the same way. I just dislike how Zack's section were cut up into the shortest glimpses instead of longer sections

 

[Hellenic]

This is how I feel. Instead being like ‘oh clerith this or oh clotis that.’ It should be just ‘this extremist shipper believes this thing.’ Healthy debates and discussing differencing opinions should be encouraged.

Me talking might come of sounding like a generalization sometimes, but believe me, when i talk about bad takes it's pretty much always from the extremists and more often than not those tend to come from some Cleriths, though not always ofc. So forgive me if i've given the wrong impression here or such. Me and the others have nothing against Cleriths in general here.

 

[abzy1200]

I predict after northern crater we will get a Zack and Aerith chapter to fill in the time. What that plot is though I have no idea the reunion at the church will happen first and then Aerith and Zack combat probably which would be really good fanservice maybe mimicking the sector 5 chapter in Remake. Sephiroth is Probably doing something there, I just can't tell what the storyline for them will be they could do anything honestly.

This is seriously something I hope for, and I really doubt won't happen.

No way they designed a whole character over Vincent or Cid only to have him be playable for a couple of fights in the whole trilogy.

Crossing my fingers here.

 

[SilverSisu]

Honestly they just left at Aerith's death when they should've pushed to the NC scene. Because there is a BIG CHUNK of the OG left to narrate in ONE game now, and thus even if Aerith and Zack have an important role, I'm not sure that screen-wise it will be that big. The fact that we just left Aerith behind too leads me to believe it'll take a while before we see her again - maybe after the NC scene? And I'm not sure her and Zack will reunite right away, she still have things to figure out before reuniting with him IMHO.

I think they are probably cutting down all side content to a bare minimum in order to tell the story from Cloud's and Zack's point of view.

Rebirth's story is about 100 hours long but if you cut all the side content we get roughly 40 hours worth of story. I think main story will have much larger portion of the overall story in part 3 so that they can fit Zack/Aerith segments into the story.

 

[Sacky]

Now that rebirth is out can we admit how bad the marketing for this game actually was. They showed half of Zacks sections in the trailer then had hardly any more to show in the game. The final trailer showed Cloud parrying the blade against Sephiroth. The first
2 trailers were great that showed the gameplay and just the dialogue. The main theme trailer was the biggest clerith bait possible that just ended up in the end making both sides mad. Confused everyone about the actual song meaning for a while. Showed off Cid in the weirdest way. Then you play the game and your like wow the marketing was nothing like what I expected, these sidemissions are really good, I'm exploring the world a lot more than I thought.

 

[abzy1200]

I think they are probably cutting down any side content to a bare minimum in order to tell the story from Cloud's and Zack's point of view.

Rebirth's story is about 100 hours long but if you cut all the side content we get roughly 40 hours worth of story. I think main story will have much larger portion of the overall story so that they can fit Zack/Aerith segments into the story.

They're going to have to.

Rebirth covered the portion of Final Fantasy 7 that was the least story heavy, I mean it's literally just them following sephiroth for most of it.

Disc 2 is when things really escalate, especially now since they have to cover the war with Wutai and all the new stuff alongside it.

 

[Sacky]

They're going to have to.

Rebirth covered the porion of Final Fantasy 7 that was the least story heavy, I mean it's literally just them following sephiroth for most of it.

Disc 2 is when things really escalate.

There's so much plot to deal with. I honestly wonder what kind of sidemissions there will be. Wutai also sounds like it's gonna be major and a highlight so I hope it's fixed Cloud we play in that section. I really want to see more of fixed Cloud playable and how different he will probably be.

 

[Yoru]

I mostly agree with you but i have to make one tiny correction. Aerith came to help Cloud and healed him in AC when he was fighting Bahamut. If Aerith hadn't come to save Cloud then Bahamut would have killed him for sure.

Also Zack offered his help in a fight against Sephiroth but Cloud refused. He wanted to kill Sephiroth himself.

It is true that when regular people die their souls dissolve into mako energy but cetras like Aerith can keep their physical bodies and conscience intact if they want. Also strong enough individuals like Zack can do the same. Maybe this has something to do with the Jenova cells all soldiers have?

You don't have to be a Cetra to resist dissolution. Elmyra's husband resisted long enough after his death to come to her and tell Aerith that he was gone and not to be sad. So yes, Zack can do that too.

But in the end, even the Cetra have to let go. Otherwise, the planet's life cycle is doomed.

Of course, there are moments in AC when we can see Aerith and Zack's actions have tangibility. The sudden explosion of water in the church, or the reappearance of Cloud in the church at the end of the movie.

So yes, they're "there" in a sense, but it's more of a meta-physical message. When Cloud talks to Aerith in the sleeping forest while he's on the road, when her hand reaches out to him to reach Bahamut, or when Cloud sees her and Zack leaving the church. They're not really there. Rather, it's a mental image created from his memories + the "magic" of the Lifestream.

It's literally "Loved ones who are gone will always be alive in your heart" JRPG style.

And I think if something will change with this RE-Trilogy is that we'll get rid of Sephiroth for good. So that Aerith and Zack can really leave and be at peace. They don't have to fight his nuisance in the Lifestream anymore.

 

[abzy1200]

There's so much plot to deal with. I honestly wonder what kind of sidemissions there will be. Wutai also sounds like it's gonna be major and a highlight so I hope it's fixed Cloud we play in that section. I really want to see more of fixed Cloud playable and how different he will probably be.

That reminds me of something, how will Square Enix get it across that Cloud really is acting differently after he's fixed? Re;trilogy already makes him seem like a nice guy, so I'm curious how they're going to go about it.

My guess is that they did this war with Wutai to shoehorn it into the trilogy as more than just an optional place to visit, and it does have some humorous moments, so I'd be a bit upset if Cloud just wasn't there or still delusional.

 

[Sacky]

That reminds me of something, how will Square Enix get it across that Cloud really is acting differently after he's fixed? Re;trilogy already makes him seem like a nice guy, so I'm curious how they're going to go about it.

My guess is that they did this war with Wutai to shoehorn it into the trilogy as more than just an optional place to visit, and it does have some humorous moments, so I'd be a bit upset if Cloud just wasn't there or still delusional.

Watch for the difference in voice tone I think it's gonna shock people. Probably more shy but still brave, him and yuffie will have motion sickness. Kinder more of the time, giving more encouraging talks. Him and Tifa will act very different with each other I'm guessing. I'm thinking all those times in Rebirth where he speaks softer and encourages Barret Yuffie, and the talk with Tifa in the gold saucer before the date scenes. Pretty much that constantly and no more tough guy acting and grumpiness.

 

[Eerie]

And I think if something will change with this RE-Trilogy is that we'll get rid of Sephiroth for good. So that Aerith and Zack can really leave and be at peace. They don't have to fight his nuisance in the Lifestream anymore.

That would mean no ACC tho and I don't believe in it. The devs hold a special place for ACC in their hearts and that's why I think Kitase's demands for a happy ending was met with resistance.

 

[Hellenic]

For me the blank face was just too focused on. Like it wanted me to understand Cloud’s intention with what he was asking.

Cloud’s persona is a loner-type tough guy, but he’s not stoic. They make him very expressive. If they wanted to show that he is jealous then maybe they forgot to animate it.

It’s a scene special to Aerith. It’s unfortunate it gets drowned by the LTD and is made to be about Cloud’s feelings. She says being in Gongaga is a lot, she can’t help but follow Zack’s dad who looks like him, and she can’t say she doesn’t still like him. It was a sad moment for her where Cloud and Tifa comfort her.

Yeah Cloud is very expressive when he wants to be and the devs homing into his face for a few seconds like "look players, look at his face and how little it shows right here" was pretty clear to me.

Definitely in some other scenarios we could have jealousy shown in these kinda scenes, but when the game has made it a clear point that when Cloud feels something, he definitely shows it, and yet here he doesn't really react at all really.

 

[abzy1200]

Watch for the difference in voice tone I think it's gonna shock people. Probably more shy but still brave, him and yuffie will have motion sickness. Kinder more of the time, giving more encouraging talks. Him and Tifa will act very different with each other I'm guessing. I'm thinking all those times in Rebirth where he speaks softer and encourages Barret Yuffie, and the talk with Tifa in the gold saucer before the date scenes. Pretty much that constantly and no more tough guy actually and dismissal

Stop you're getting me excited to see how Cody and Sakurai voice Cloud's lines, especially those directed at Tifa.

and I just realised, the return to Cosmo Canyon would be a great place to expand on Cloud and Tifa's relationship, even post highwind scene, since in the original they do atleast choose to sit next to each other.

Even though sometimes I speak very harshly of the re;trilogy, at the end of the day Final Fantasy 7 is still my favourite game of all time, so I'm still really excited to play part 3.

 

[Hellenic]

Oh shit! My story reminds me of something that intrigued me in the game's intro. I need your opinions.

When Cloud narrates the Nibelheim flashback, there are little moments when Tifa also steps in to tell her side of the story. This creates little exchanges of glances between the two of them from time to time, indicating to us, the player, that they don't have quite the same memories.

The part that intrigues me is when they tell us that after the events at the reactor, they returned to the village and Sephiroth left for the manor. Tifa tells us that the mayor was upset because Sephiroth had cancelled the dinner that had been planned, and that her father had to "suffer" the consequences.

Video with timestamp

Why is Cloud so surprised ? He's really like "What are you talking about?" and even Tifa is surprised by his reaction.

Yeah this bit has been confusing me too and i couldn't figure out why they are confused at each other.

Maybe Cloud is surprised about the mayor dinner plan, couse he doesn't recall that happening, while Tifa does? He likely wasn't present for that discussion as the grunt that he was and maybe it's one of those things that he doesn't actually remember as pretend Zack, unlike the rest of it?

 

[Sacky]

Stop you're getting me excited to see how Cody and Sakurai voice Cloud's lines, especially those directed at Tifa.

and I just realised, the return to Cosmo Canyon would be a great place to expand on Cloud and Tifa's relationship, even post highwind scene, since in the original they do atleast choose to sit next to each other.

Even though sometimes I speak very harshly of the re;trilogy, at the end of the day Final Fantasy 7 is still my favourite game of all time, so I'm still really excited to play part 3.

It's one of the things I'm most excited for. Crisis core Clouds voice is sorta a tease of it and also the what did they tell you soft voice he does