- AKA
- Tim, Ryu
It was the end of the world, tensions were high and they'd had feelings welling up for over a decade now. I absolutely believe they sort of realizing after the fact that they'd let it go so far.
SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke
- Thread starter The Twilight Mexican
- Start date
Hellenic
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Hellenic
This is something i just can't pull of. I can't even do "Let the Battles Begin" for A and i'm so thankful it's not part of the Platinum seemingly. My brain just can't juggle between the 2 different note boards simultaneously at those speeds.
GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
I can’t do the the Piano well at all. So I mostly just ignore it.
insanehobbit
Pro Adventurer
As far as I know, there aren't. Certainly not any where they're teasing him about his potential romantic feelings for her (You do have Red telling Cloud he needs to protect Aerith and Zack asking him to save Aerith, but uhh...oops). Whereas in the OG there was at the very least the Barret date where he tells Cloud to choose one (and makes it weird about Marlene), whereas now their bro-date is a very sweet and I guess more ambiguous re: who Barret is talking about.
Meanwhile, re: Cloud's feelings for Tifa, you have this side quest with Yuffie (which happens almost immediately after she joins the party, so it's hilarious how quickly she clocks him), Yuffie and Cait Sith whispering for them to kiss outside the door in Gongaga, Yuffie bringing up Tifa's crush on Cloud/asking if he liked her too in Yuffie's own GS date, oh and Aerith teasing him about wanting little Tifa to wave at him when he was a kid. They're really not being subtle at all, lol.
In any case, can't wait for the part 3 Yuffie vs. Marle showdown to see who's the biggest in-universe shipper
Pre-Rebirth, one could argue there were few explicitly, unambiguously romantic scenes in general (like I guess the Lifestream and Highwind scenes are written to be ambiguous enough to go over the heads of some children at least, lol), and Cloud is kinda just clueless/unresponsive in this part of the OG's story, so I guess I can see how people could still argue we don't know his feelings either way.
Rebirth changes that completely. If someone is still legitimately confused as to who Cloud's love interest is supposed to be and wants to find the answer in good faith, then they have to look at every scene, optional or not, to get the full context for his character.
The Tifa GS date is a gamechanger, not just because he kisses her, but because it shows us exactly how Cloud would react if a woman he is romantically interested in expressed her romantic interest in him: he confirms his feelings with words and actions.
This is now the lens through which we have to view his interactions with every other person who expresses their romantic interest in him. Before, you could argue, well Cloud deflecting, "pretending" to be annoyed is just him being shy/clueless.
Well, with Tifa, he's clearly not clueless. Tifa's "confession" in Rebirth is arguably even more ambiguous than it was in the OG. She phrases it in such a way that he could deflect/let her down easy if he doesn't feel the same, but he understands what she's saying immediately. It takes less time for Cloud to extend his hand and verbally confirm his feelings than it does for Tifa to process what's happening and take his hand.
As for being shy -- again, in Tifa's date, we see what Cloud being shy around someone who he's romantically interested in actually looks like. He does not deflect/put an awkward end to conversations, instead he actively engages while stealing glances/staring at her, but is unable to maintain eye contact when he's caught, lol.
On the other hand, Rebirth also has Cloud verbally confirming that his relationship with Jessie wasn't romantic. So his reactions in Remake to her overt advances weren't him secretly reciprocating her feelings. Now, does that dynamic remind us of his relationship with someone else?
Rebirth gives us all of that before we even get to the Yuffie of it all. Before, we had a bunch of people commenting on Cloud/Tifa's closeness/childhood friendship, in an implied but not unambiguously romantic way. Rebirth basically has Yuffie barging in every other chapter screaming, "Hey, Cloud, do you have a big fat crush on Tifa???" just in case some people still don't get it.
Ryeleigh
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Rye
Lol, Cloud even has a little giggle during that conversation with Yuffie. So the only threesome confirmed is Cloud/Tifa/Tifa, lmao.
I always thought it wasn't all that serious from Jessie's side either? That she just liked riling him up because she thought his reactions were cute/funny?
Eerie
Fire and Blood
It's Tifa. The first four notes of her theme hit in that scene lol. Yes, some CT fans have a really good musical ear (which I am thankful for lol).
GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
Is that actually true? I might have to watch it again to see if I can catch it.
No, mostly meant the digicube guide. Thought I remembered having a few more quotes on the matter but fewer than I remembered, and slightly different in nature.
There is, like you said, the digicube guide, which paints the quote as a more inclusive sentiment, then there is page 203 from the Ultimania Omega, which talks about Bugenhagens passing and specifically notes that the teams insistence that they "might meet him again somewhere" is mirrored in Cloud and Tifas talk in the ending. There is also a final fantasy art museum card, but while that one has some elaboration that makes it sound more generic it can still be argued to only apply to Aerith, plus wouldn't really be canon anyway. And lastly there is the original storyboard for the scene, which also paints a more general picture of going to see the dead, inspired by earlier talks concerning the dead existing past mount Nibel.
Thing is, for me, I am not worried too much about people ignoring ultimanias or other quotes, I am more worried about people taking a quote and lashing onto it as though it perfectly represents some unchanging perfectly articulated word of god. I prefer taking a wider view of everything that's being said to see what the general theme is in all relevant statements and events, and then using that to interpret the lines themselves.
While I think that Aerith is specifically pointed out as the vehicle for the sentiment being expressed, I don't believe the focus of the quote is about Aerith. I believe the focus is on Cloud and Tifa and their fate, with Aerith being used as the most symbolic example to express a general sentiment. For one, people usually tend not to make their deaths about someone else, so going "their last thoughts are about how they're going to meet Aerith specifically" feels intuitively bizarre to me, it feels arrogant to make someones death about someone else. If they really were thinking about meeting the dead in concrete logistics, I would assume that Tifas father, Clouds mother, Jessie, and the others, would all feature in there somewhere as well.
It's like if I were bitching about having to go see my mother in law, but then me and my mate end up in a plane crash, and to comfort me he says something like "well, at least you won't have to go see your mother in law". Then that sentence is technically about my mother in law, sure, but the sentiment is still more about the impending end to all our problems in general.
Similarly, while Aerith is singled out by the ultimania as the person they're talking about, I still find it more likely that she's used as a sort of symbolic user case.
GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
The current cope with this, however, is that this is all Soldier Cloud and Aerith draws out the Real Cloud.As far as I know, there aren't. Certainly not any where they're teasing him about his potential romantic feelings for her (You do have Red telling Cloud he needs to protect Aerith and Zack asking him to save Aerith, but uhh...oops). Whereas in the OG there was at the very least the Barret date where he tells Cloud to choose one (and makes it weird about Marlene), whereas now their bro-date is a very sweet and I guess more ambiguous re: who Barret is talking about.
Meanwhile, re: Cloud's feelings for Tifa, you have this side quest with Yuffie (which happens almost immediately after she joins the party, so it's hilarious how quickly she clocks him), Yuffie and Cait Sith whispering for them to kiss outside the door in Gongaga, Yuffie bringing up Tifa's crush on Cloud/asking if he liked her too in Yuffie's own GS date, oh and Aerith teasing him about wanting little Tifa to wave at him when he was a kid. They're really not being subtle at all, lol.
In any case, can't wait for the part 3 Yuffie vs. Marle showdown to see who's the biggest in-universe shipper
Pre-Rebirth, one could argue there were few explicitly, unambiguously romantic scenes in general (like I guess the Lifestream and Highwind scenes are written to be ambiguous enough to go over the heads of some children at least, lol), and Cloud is kinda just clueless/unresponsive in this part of the OG's story, so I guess I can see how people could still argue we don't know his feelings either way.
Rebirth changes that completely. If someone is still legitimately confused as to who Cloud's love interest is supposed to be and wants to find the answer in good faith, then they have to look at every scene, optional or not, to get the full context for his character.
The Tifa GS date is a gamechanger, not just because he kisses her, but because it shows us exactly how Cloud would react if a woman he is romantically interested in expressed her romantic interest in him: he confirms his feelings with words and actions.
This is now the lens through which we have to view his interactions with every other person who expresses their romantic interest in him. Before, you could argue, well Cloud deflecting, "pretending" to be annoyed is just him being shy/clueless.
Well, with Tifa, he's clearly not clueless. Tifa's "confession" in Rebirth is arguably even more ambiguous than it was in the OG. She phrases it in such a way that he could deflect/let her down easy if he doesn't feel the same, but he understands what she's saying immediately. It takes less time for Cloud to extend his hand and verbally confirm his feelings than it does for Tifa to process what's happening and take his hand.
As for being shy -- again, in Tifa's date, we see what Cloud being shy around someone who he's romantically interested in actually looks like. He does not deflect/put an awkward end to conversations, instead he actively engages while stealing glances/staring at her, but is unable to maintain eye contact when he's caught, lol.
On the other hand, Rebirth also has Cloud verbally confirming that his relationship with Jessie wasn't romantic. So his reactions in Remake to her overt advances weren't him secretly reciprocating her feelings. Now, does that dynamic remind us of his relationship with someone else?
Rebirth gives us all of that before we even get to the Yuffie of it all. Before, we had a bunch of people commenting on Cloud/Tifa's closeness/childhood friendship, in an implied but not unambiguously romantic way. Rebirth basically has Yuffie barging in every other chapter screaming, "Hey, Cloud, do you have a big fat crush on Tifa???" just in case some people still don't get it.
Yes, an inverse of the OG. Yes, the Ultimania says different but it is being ignored.
I think the fundamental issue at the heart of the matter is that shippers on the other side likely wish Tifa and Aerith’s roles were swapped. The portion of Cloud’s arc that regards Tifa is hard to square away, especially after the Northern Cave. Since Cloud is at the height of his identity issues at the moment, the idea that his interaction with Tifa in Rebirth could just be his SOLDIER persona coming out is something that can be clung to.
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LunarTarotGirl
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Lunarae
@Stiggie I see. Yeah I'm not against that idea. In fact I'm pretty sure I said that somewhere before that this quote is about the truth of Promised Land in general. And Aerith is a symbol of the loved ones. Seeing her hand leads Cloud to realize the truth and basically it means there is proof to them that death is not their end they will be reunited with their lost ones. All of them. Not just her.
I was just saying I don't think the translation itself was wrong or that the Ultimania was inconsistent. It's just people misunderstood that this is a symbol of a bigger topic in context.
I was just saying I don't think the translation itself was wrong or that the Ultimania was inconsistent. It's just people misunderstood that this is a symbol of a bigger topic in context.
Rin
Pro Adventurer
One thing I don't think people are prepared for (but they should start getting themselves prepared for it now) is that it's no longer going to be just Aerith waiting for them in the LS. Zack is gonna be there, too. In fact, I won't even be surprised if SE has Aerith reach to Tifa and Zack reach to Cloud. I'd gladly welcome that change, personally if only to make people stfu lol
- AKA
- So many names
The worst thing about the LTD to me has always been how much attention it takes from other character relationships. You can't appreciate Barret's dad-ass energy fully if you're forcing him and Tifa together to keep Tifa away from Cloud. You can't appreciate Aerith's incredible success at socializing the shy, scared stray dog Cloud has become fully if you just nitpick it for romance. I've seen the entire rest of the party fully marginalized or ignored save for facetious claims that they back up Clerith in some way. And most damning to me is how it overshadows Tifa and Aerith's stunning friendship. It was bad enough in the OG, but after RE and RE2 it just blinkers me to deads and back. Those poor souls put on Shipping Goggles(TM) to avoid seeing CT, and look what they miss for it. Cloud isn't the one healing Aerith's hide and seek trauma, Tifa gets that beautiful "Found you!" moment. Look at them fangirl for each other after wrecking Corneo's goons. Look at them in Costa del Sol. Aerith and Tifa hit it off so hard and stayed best friends/road roomies the whole journey and hardcore, extremist shipping could have you believe they're bitter enemies if you let it. Extremism is bad, and in LTD terms this is the worst of it to me.
Eerie
Fire and Blood
I adore the Aerti friendship but I think it was more superficial than in Remake, because DAMN they didn't SHOW their chats and I wanted more of that. YES I AM GREEDY.
At least I got my Costa del Sol aerti shopping date as I envisioned in Remake :p but still, I loved their friendship in Remake because you could see them supporting each other, here you see that they have convos but you are privvy to none except the Kalm one
I feel it's missing compared to Remake, even though yes, I can see how and WHY they developed it that way, I still wish for more.
At least I got my Costa del Sol aerti shopping date as I envisioned in Remake :p but still, I loved their friendship in Remake because you could see them supporting each other, here you see that they have convos but you are privvy to none except the Kalm one
I feel it's missing compared to Remake, even though yes, I can see how and WHY they developed it that way, I still wish for more.The whole Aerith and Tifa bond brings up a host of issues. Don't get me wrong, I love the dynamic, and I want more of it. But it comes back to what I've been saying about Clerith poisoning everything.
The developers could do such a better job telling this story if they completely stopped trying to give Clerith wiggle room. One of my main gripes in story telling is when stuff seems to revolve around the main character for no reason.
So for instance if people fall in love with a person, simply because they're the main character. My biggest gripe is probably when someone dies, and even though they have friends and family that have known them for years, the main character is the one who gets the focus, who does the eulogy or gets some sort of inheritance, or is the one getting comforted, even though they only just met them. There are times and ways to do it where it works, but quite often it feels like some sort of weird "center of the universe" complex thing that I find off-putting. What I love about Clouds story, originally, is that it really is the opposite of that. He's not the center of the universe, and not only that, but the hubris of the player in assuming they're the center of the universe is what allows the OG to so effectively pull the wool over their eyes. No one suspects they're just a grunt, because everyone assumes they're the chosen one.
This is one of the reasons I love the idea of Aerith not genuinely falling in love with Cloud, it reinforces the idea that he's not the typical self-insert fantasy. I hate the idea of "Yeah, I know I've been pining over my wonderful loving ex boyfriend for 5 years, but after spending one week with you being an asshole, braindamaged, and trying to get together with another woman I've gotten over all of that, you are what I really want! what? You're channeling my ex-bf's spirit? A meaningless triviality, I love the real you and can't wait to meet him!".
But to come back to why I think Tifa and Aeriths bond has come with a host of issues.
Right now it has become more annoying than ever to me that the game is presenting Cloud and Aeriths bond as special....because from everything I've seen, Tifa is the one who had the special bond with Aerith. She's the one she should be wanting to talk to post death, hell, she's even the one she should want to go on a dream date with, even if only to go clothes shopping and fulfil the date they had planned in Remake.
I like that Cloud was paired more with Tifa in rebirth, and I liked seeing Tifa and Aerith. But man does it make chapter 14 weird as all hell. Love the Tifa/Aerith friendship, wish they'd just axe Clerith bait entirely so they could properly explore it.
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LNK
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Nate
Gross, I always had a suspicion Cloud kept it in the family
LNK
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Nate
Jeez, not Blankbeat again
Hellenic
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Hellenic
Yeah it felt like they wanted to hide way too much from the players here by not showing almost anything from their POV. We can only hope we get some insight to their conversations in the third game, but i don't have too high hopes for that right now.
- AKA
- So many names
Ryeleigh
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Rye
LNK
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Nate
I'm not there yet, but hopefully people aren't saying that's necessarily a bad thing. It's just a reflection of real life
LNK
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Nate
Shit, they're probably both products of incest@LNK Well Cloud and Tifa are rural mountain folk like all Nibelheimians... Nibelians? Nibelheimers? Fuck it, they're hillbillies
Also, BlankBeat was actually very tame, trust me. The Cleriths of yore would have considered them borderline Cloti tolerant
As for Blankbeat, they definitely weren't tame for this forum. At least in my experience haha
GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
Ahem, they’re referred to as “Nibelheimerino(s)”. Check your lore, mate.@LNK Well Cloud and Tifa are rural mountain folk like all Nibelheimians... Nibelians? Nibelheimers? Fuck it, they're hillbillies
Also, BlankBeat was actually very tame, trust me. The Cleriths of yore would have considered them borderline Cloti tolerant
Also, I’m starting to dread thinking what shipping must have been like without the Compilation. When it was only the OG.
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Sacky
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- SackyBoy
Ive heard that in Barrets Date, the start of Tifas theme can be heard in the music near the end (i personally cant really tell though)As far as I know, there aren't. Certainly not any where they're teasing him about his potential romantic feelings for her (You do have Red telling Cloud he needs to protect Aerith and Zack asking him to save Aerith, but uhh...oops). Whereas in the OG there was at the very least the Barret date where he tells Cloud to choose one (and makes it weird about Marlene), whereas now their bro-date is a very sweet and I guess more ambiguous re: who Barret is talking about.
Meanwhile, re: Cloud's feelings for Tifa, you have this side quest with Yuffie (which happens almost immediately after she joins the party, so it's hilarious how quickly she clocks him), Yuffie and Cait Sith whispering for them to kiss outside the door in Gongaga, Yuffie bringing up Tifa's crush on Cloud/asking if he liked her too in Yuffie's own GS date, oh and Aerith teasing him about wanting little Tifa to wave at him when he was a kid. They're really not being subtle at all, lol.
In any case, can't wait for the part 3 Yuffie vs. Marle showdown to see who's the biggest in-universe shipper
Pre-Rebirth, one could argue there were few explicitly, unambiguously romantic scenes in general (like I guess the Lifestream and Highwind scenes are written to be ambiguous enough to go over the heads of some children at least, lol), and Cloud is kinda just clueless/unresponsive in this part of the OG's story, so I guess I can see how people could still argue we don't know his feelings either way.
Rebirth changes that completely. If someone is still legitimately confused as to who Cloud's love interest is supposed to be and wants to find the answer in good faith, then they have to look at every scene, optional or not, to get the full context for his character.
The Tifa GS date is a gamechanger, not just because he kisses her, but because it shows us exactly how Cloud would react if a woman he is romantically interested in expressed her romantic interest in him: he confirms his feelings with words and actions.
This is now the lens through which we have to view his interactions with every other person who expresses their romantic interest in him. Before, you could argue, well Cloud deflecting, "pretending" to be annoyed is just him being shy/clueless.
Well, with Tifa, he's clearly not clueless. Tifa's "confession" in Rebirth is arguably even more ambiguous than it was in the OG. She phrases it in such a way that he could deflect/let her down easy if he doesn't feel the same, but he understands what she's saying immediately. It takes less time for Cloud to extend his hand and verbally confirm his feelings than it does for Tifa to process what's happening and take his hand.
As for being shy -- again, in Tifa's date, we see what Cloud being shy around someone who he's romantically interested in actually looks like. He does not deflect/put an awkward end to conversations, instead he actively engages while stealing glances/staring at her, but is unable to maintain eye contact when he's caught, lol.
On the other hand, Rebirth also has Cloud verbally confirming that his relationship with Jessie wasn't romantic. So his reactions in Remake to her overt advances weren't him secretly reciprocating her feelings. Now, does that dynamic remind us of his relationship with someone else?
Rebirth gives us all of that before we even get to the Yuffie of it all. Before, we had a bunch of people commenting on Cloud/Tifa's closeness/childhood friendship, in an implied but not unambiguously romantic way. Rebirth basically has Yuffie barging in every other chapter screaming, "Hey, Cloud, do you have a big fat crush on Tifa???" just in case some people still don't get it.
I would argue the biggest in-game shipper for Cloti was actually Thea Tifas Mom XD. Setting them up as children.
Traces of Two Pasts Tifa - Cloud has such a beautiful face. She recalled her mother's words, and how her mother went on to say, "Well, I think he's even more beautiful than your great hero, Sephiroth." Her mother compared Cloud to a Soldier from Shinra Company – who the youth in those days touted as the great hero, Sephiroth – as a way of complimenting Cloud. Tifa remembered thinking in her head at that time, "Oh, is he?"