SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Eerie]

Yeah, Nomura was very fond of that design, no kidding.

In other news, there was a talk with Hamaguchi and Kitase at the Saudi event, and they confirmed:

• Aerith is dead, and her death was done that way to show how Cloud reacts when he loses a loved one;
• more Tifa next part: we'll explore more aspects of her character as a strong and powerful character;
• maybe she'll suplex, they're not sure;
• they told us to look forward her synergy attacks with Cid and Vincent (who will of course be playable);
• they understand the fans' expectations for her role at this point of the story (do they though lmao).

Also commented on how she's the most popular character in Saudi (well they upped her figurine prices and they still sold out on first day so...) and how popular she is in general (you wouldn't believe it, seeing their post Rebirth PR).

At least it does feel that they're going to focus a lot more on Tifa, not only for "her game" which I expected, but also for PR. I didn't expect them to talk that much about her tbh.

 

[Shadowstorm]

Yeah… Tifa, Rinoa, and Garnet have a lot of physical similarities. I hope you enjoy FFIX, it’s my second favorite after FFVII and FFX (tied for first).

It'll probably get a top spot for me as well just for the vibes. Put pirates in anything and part of my thought process is just gonna be my inner 8 year old cheering and clapping. I'm a simple girl depending on how much they let miss princess cut loose over the course of the story it might end up tied for first place with 7

 

[Maidenofwar]

Yeah, apparently Kitase kept calling Aerith "taisetsu na hito" to Cloud, again even if you don't see it romantically Cloud clearly has incredibly powerful important bonds with Zack, Aerith and Tifa.

I believe they said it before, about how before what happened was sudden/unexpected, but this time more about having a hard time letting go.

 

[GamerSkull]

The Lifestream Sequence is probably my most anticipated moment in Part 3. I’m also excited for the Weapon stuff at Junon and Midgar.

 

[Ryushikaze]

So, I just started up FF9 since EC enlightened me to the fact that it has pirate vibes, and I feel like I'm looking at Tifa Lockhart's younger sister? Just how many times did they re-use that design? I know they kind of peaked with her but damn.

There's a reason I joke Tifa is Nomura's favorite design. I'd argue he returns to the well one more time with Lulu and maybe Payne.

Yeah, apparently Kitase kept calling Aerith "taisetsu na hito" to Cloud, again even if you don't see it romantically Cloud clearly has incredibly powerful important bonds with Zack, Aerith and Tifa.

I believe they said it before, about how before what happened was sudden/unexpected, but this time more about having a hard time letting go.

I don't think anyone here is arguing that they do not have a bond (The poster who said things like that is ESL and also compared them to Ichiruki which is a very strong non romantic bond as well) or that Aerith isn't important or precious to Cloud. It's just there are different types of precious and Aerith is with Zack as hito or mono, never josei.

 

[GamerSkull]

I don't think anyone here is arguing that they do not have a bond (The poster who said things like that is ESL and also compared them to Ichiruki which is a very strong non romantic bond as well) or that Aerith isn't important or precious to Cloud. It's just there are different types of precious and Aerith is with Zack as hito or mono, never josei.

Yeah, it’s kinda like Cody said… you can have meaningful relationships without it being sexualized (blanket statement for romance/attraction in general). His bond with Aerith is strong, just not necessarily romantic.

 

[Empyrea]

I don't think anyone here is arguing that they do not have a bond (The poster who said things like that is ESL and also compared them to Ichiruki which is a very strong non romantic bond as well) or that Aerith isn't important or precious to Cloud. It's just there are different types of precious and Aerith is with Zack as hito or mono, never josei.

Even being ESL aside (I'm also ESL), what they said was CA not coming across as having a "deep spiritual bond," not having no bonds at all. Those are two very different things as well.

Cloud himself has stated that there isn't a thing he doesn't cherish, so it's just bad faith to say he had no bond with Aerith at all. It just fails to seem as deep as some people make it out to be, let alone spiritual.

 

[Eerie]

Personally I don't see the bond Cloud and Aerith have as spiritual, nor romantic, but it's definitely a beautiful and deep bond. You can see that Cloud sees that Aerith feels lonely and wounded by Zack's disappearance, just as he is. In Remake, they was clearly some bonding through Zack that happened between them, and that's why the music in sector 5 is Remake's main theme: because they both miss Zack - one aware of it, the other not. Everything that you could say is spiritual is how he sees her hand helping him at the end of the game or after when she appears to him but it's HER actually using her powers onto him. To have a real connection it must be two sided.

Now the deep spiritual bond, how could it not be CT? Because he hears her voice calling him in the flood of the Lifestream voices, she hears him calling her, he lets her enter his mind, she saves him. It's something that ties them in a deep spiritual way and leaves her breathless at the end of the Lifestream section. No one is using their power onto the other, and if you take the Gongaga Lifestream scene, it's her little memories that connect to Cloud's memories. If that's not being connected spiritually, I don't know what is.

 

[Shadowstorm]

I believe they said it before, about how before what happened was sudden/unexpected, but this time more about having a hard time letting go.

I felt so vindicated by that. My first thought when playing the ending was just "oh they're just exploring the denial stage of grief in an extreme way by having Cloud unable to accept it, reflecting all the players that desperately tried to find a way to save Aerith back in the OG, and making it part of his weaker and weaker grasp on reality. Cool beans" and was surprised to find that not the general consensus lol. It's nice to see I'm on similar wavelength as the devs there.

The Lifestream Sequence is probably my most anticipated moment in Part 3. I’m also excited for the Weapon stuff at Junon and Midgar.

Same here. The Lifestream is gonna be the main event I can't wait. I'm also very curious about Wutai now that it's plot relevant, and excited to return to Midgar in general. It was so fleshed out in Remake it'll truly feel like a homecoming now.

 

[Hellenic]

what do u think about C& A firework date in EC? Seem like SE is raising the LTD again. C almost confesses his feeling when saying: ‘when i’m with you, you bring out a part of me that i didn’t know existed, IMO.

Seemed like a nothing burger scene to me and i did watch all 3 of them in-game. Tifas one was clearly the most intimate to me at least.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Seemed like a nothing burger scene to me and i did watch all 3 of them in-game. Tifas one was clearly the most intimate to me at least.

Oh, it's definitely an attempt to claim that "Aerith totally brings out the real Cloud too!" because Real Cloud coming out for Tifa has burned their asses for years now.

Sort of like how they try and claim Denzel as "Cloud and Aerith's child" and remind everyone that Marlene is Barret's daughter like that somehow hurts CT. Same as with insisting Barret moves back in later which I don't think we ever know if he does.

Basically, what Tifa has, the CAs want.

 

[Maidenofwar]

I didn't feel that way, the CA scene was longer, more extensive, titled "Fireworks in Sync", referred to the CA Rebirth date with both Aerith and Cloud teasing each other with "I'll leave it to your Imagination" quote, had Cloud compliment Aerith's appearance (yeah, she fished but it turned into a nice banter/tease between them, with the fireworks bring used for "interruption" and was tied in with the CA wallpaper of Aerith holding Cloud's hand. It's not that the other scenes weren't nice. They were all nice.

The "I want to travel the world (remembering this feeling, heartbeats synced with the sky, ocean, wind) together with you and the part of you that you never knew existed " was touching too, because she did go on that journey.

 

[Eerie]

The CA and CT scenes both are reverse of their GS dates. In Aerith's date, Cloud tries to explain his Zack persona. In Tifa's date, he tries to confess but chickens out. It's very clearly a reverse of their dates, that's all there is to it and I think it's fun and cute stuff for shippers all around but it really is not that deep.

 

[Hellenic]

The CA and CT scenes both are reverse of their GS dates. In Aerith's date, Cloud tries to explain his Zack persona. In Tifa's date, he tries to confess but chickens out. It's very clearly a reverse of their dates, that's all there is to it and I think it's fun and cute stuff for shippers all around but it really is not that deep.

Yeah they did feel like they were referencing the OG dates essentially.

 

[Hellenic]

Personally, even if I want Cloti canon… I’d rather they confirm Clerith is canon more so than keeping it ambiguous between both.

At least if they confirm one side over the other, I can move on and find other things.

Even the losing side is preferable to ambiguous imo.

Nah i'd much rather take ambiguous than accepting some kinda last minute ass pull Clerith after everything they've done to pull further away from that possibility.

I'd prefer ambiguous in this particular situation not because I don't want Clerith to win, but because at this point there is so much set up for ZA and CT that brushing them both off would almost have to be poorly written. Much as I want this part of the ship war to end, good storytelling should always take priority imo.

Basically this.

Not to be mean, but canon CA isn’t really compatible with the story they are trying to tell. They had the opportunity to change things with the beginning of the Remake trilogy but they didn’t.

The only way CA makes sense is if the story is changed from a foundational level.

They’ve now created a scenario in which players will see him kiss Tifa in a determinant scene. A scene that Aerith has a version of in which he does not kiss her. He’s also repeatedly indicated that he wishes Aerith not do certain things that are considered romantic.

They’ve already shit the bed if we’re heading towards CA now as it just makes Cloud seem like an indecisive fuckboy.

CA is basically dead and buried as a possibility now with everything they've done, unless they just want to ruin everything they've build up so far.

(unless it's stuff like reading jealousy into Cloud's default expression lol)

I never understand how someone could think there's any kind of jealousy portrayed in that face there.

Cloud was totally jealous of Zack in Gongaga. You could see it on his blank expression.

Also, he totally didn’t care when Barret tells him the story of that one guy who hit on Tifa and she rejected him. He even makes a face.

Hey, wait a darn minute!!!!

Totally not a perfect example of an actual jealous Cloud at play.

You would think Tifa is more evil than Sephiroth with the way she is sometimes described by some people.

Somehow the guy that kills their favourite is lesser of the 2 evils than the girl that's the kindest and most caring person in this game.

Also, x.com

This feels like bait more than anything. Or maybe it is just someone who has fuck all idea about the game(s) and rolls with whatever he was fed.

Been watching Rebirth. One thing I noticed is that (so far) people get that Cloud wants to be a hero but few people seem to get how specifically he wants to be Tifa's hero. It's like, yeah, Cloud is a typical JRPG protagonist who wants to help and save people but that kind of stems from his love for Tifa? The streamer I'm watching also commented on how there's this disconnect between what Cloud wants to be and who he actually is, regarding the hero thing. And again, it's his love for Tifa and Tifa's love for him that ultimately gives him the strength to become the hero he wants to be. But I guess people will get that when Part 3 drops?

To be fair, it's not exactly clear so far that he's doing all this just for her to new players. That's what the Lifestream sequence is there for afterall.

Oh, there are so many people who admit not seeing/playing/reading X and still assert an opinion about it that's 100% wrong with their whole chest. I'd probably die of embarrassment instead.

I never understand getting invested on a ship you aren't even familiar with in the first place. Though i guess knowing a basic concept around some ship is enough to get some people into it? Just a weird thing to me i guess.

He also said Crisis Core wasn't canon despite, you know, being referenced in Rebirth.

People never get tired of pretending Crisis Core doesn't matter. I guess Zack being more prominent now scares people too much.

 

[Hellenic]

I wanted to ask this in a post of it's own so here goes. Why exactly is Clerith as popular as it is? Why are we still having this big competition of the 2 ships? I just don't really get it.

I get the basic idea of 2 lonely people confiding in each other and helping each other grow up as people and the bantering that the dynamic brings can be cute i suppose, but with how little any of the FF7 games actually built them up, i just can't really get onboard for the Clerith ship. They never get anything as majestic as Cloti gets with it's big Lifestream reveals or even the promise scene. There's just a few cute moments and that's about it before Aerith gets killed.

Maybe i just have higher standards for how much i want a romantic relationship to be built to care about it i guess. That side of the ship just doesn't give me enough to be invested.

I'm by no means trying to bash the ship, but i have a hard time understanding why some people call Clerith the best romance ever and such when it barely gets off it's feet before it ends and doesn't really get that much development in the first place.

 

[Shadowstorm]

Sort of like how they try and claim Denzel as "Cloud and Aerith's child" and remind everyone that Marlene is Barret's daughter like that somehow hurts CT. Same as with insisting Barret moves back in later which I don't think we ever know if he does.

The stuff about them insisting Marlene being Barret's daughter takes away from her place in Cloud and Tifa's family is especially funny when you consider how ff7r has been portraying that dynamic. Tifa has almost as much screentime with Marlene as Barret does, Marlene is shown to be one of her biggest concerns in the build up to the plate drop, in Rebirth Marlene always asks about "Daddy and Tifa" instead of just Barret himself, Barret credits Tifa as the reason he got his shit together as a father, ToTP has Tifa note that Marlene brings out her maternal side, and it's now been made very clear Marlene was young enough when she met Tifa that she likely doesn't remember a time before she was in her life. For all intents and purposes Tifa already is Marlene's mother, the living situation in AC just makes it feel more like a traditional set up.

That scene in Remake where they talk about all 3 of them needing to make it back to Marlene safely feels like foreshadowing too. The girl can have 3 parents.

I wanted to ask this in a post of it's own so here goes. Why exactly is Clerith as popular as it is? Why are we still having this big competition of the 2 ships? I just don't really get it.

I get the basic idea of 2 lonely people confiding in each other and helping each other grow up as people and the bantering that the dynamic brings can be cute i suppose, but with how little any of the FF7 games actually built them up, i just can't really get onboard for the Clerith ship. They never get anything as majestic as Cloti gets with it's big Lifestream reveals or even the promise scene. There's just a few cute moments and that's about it before Aerith gets killed.

Maybe i just have higher standards for how much i want a romantic relationship to be built to care about it i guess. That side of the ship just doesn't give me enough to be invested.

I'm by no means trying to bash the ship, but i have a hard time understanding why some people call Clerith the best romance ever and such when it barely gets off it's feet before it ends and doesn't really get that much development in the first place.

I think a lot of it is that, especially in the OG, Clerith is baited with some incredibly popular tropes. It was a clever way to build quick investment in the ship and Aerith herself to ensure her death would hurt, but a lot of shippers just never look past it at all. Hell, I've seen people reduce the entire ship war to if you prefer a meet-cute or childhood friends.

Part of it is also just love for Aerith. Her fate is tragic and deeply unfair, her not even being Cloud's one true love after all that is just too much heartbreak for a lot of people. It's one of the reasons I'd like for her to have a bit more of a send-off in the LS with Zack this time around, just to highlight that she isn't left without her love story and there has always been someone as desperate to reunite with her as they wish Cloud was.

Some folks just love a tragic romance too.

 

[GamerSkull]

I wanted to ask this in a post of it's own so here goes. Why exactly is Clerith as popular as it is? Why are we still having this big competition of the 2 ships? I just don't really get it.

I get the basic idea of 2 lonely people confiding in each other and helping each other grow up as people and the bantering that the dynamic brings can be cute i suppose, but with how little any of the FF7 games actually built them up, i just can't really get onboard for the Clerith ship. They never get anything as majestic as Cloti gets with it's big Lifestream reveals or even the promise scene. There's just a few cute moments and that's about it before Aerith gets killed.

Maybe i just have higher standards for how much i want a romantic relationship to be built to care about it i guess. That side of the ship just doesn't give me enough to be invested.

I'm by no means trying to bash the ship, but i have a hard time understanding why some people call Clerith the best romance ever and such when it barely gets off it's feet before it ends and doesn't really get that much development in the first place.

I think a lot of it is that, especially in the OG, Clerith is baited with some incredibly popular tropes. It was a clever way to build quick investment in the ship and Aerith herself to ensure her death would hurt, but a lot of shippers just never look past it at all. Hell, I've seen people reduce the entire ship war to if you prefer a meet-cute or childhood friends.

Part of it is also just love for Aerith. Her fate is tragic and deeply unfair, her not even being Cloud's one true love after all that is just too much heartbreak for a lot of people. It's one of the reasons I'd like for her to have a bit more of a send-off in the LS with Zack this time around, just to highlight that she isn't left without her love story and there has always been someone as desperate to reunite with her as they wish Cloud was.

Some folks just love a tragic romance too.

People also seemingly have an easier time self-inserting as Aerith too so that’s potentially part of it. (Even though Tifa has a lot of relatable traits such as insecurity, kindness, guilt, etc.)

As for the Marlene stuff, Tifa even refers to her as her daughter in CoT. Marlene herself says Cloud and Tifa can be her parents until Barret returns from doing whatever he needs to do.

 

[Reaper3Delta]

Sort of like how they try and claim Denzel as "Cloud and Aerith's child" and remind everyone that Marlene is Barret's daughter like that somehow hurts CT. Same as with insisting Barret moves back in later which I don't think we ever know if he does.

Funny when Denzel's biological parents are "CloTi coded" just with inverted eye colors. Aerith "guided" him to them or it was fate/chance/luck for him to be around the Sector 5 Church that day. In Marlene's case I agree with that, 'they' do that to diminish Cloti's relationship.

 

[GamerSkull]

I mean, in Denzel’s case, he literally has been adopted by Tifa and Cloud. Barret even tells him to look after “Mama”…. which he’s obviously talking about Tifa there.

 

[Ryeleigh]

To be fair, it's not exactly clear so far that he's doing all this just for her to new players. That's what the Lifestream sequence is there for afterall.

Yeah, I just hope people will actually reflect back on the stuff and be like, "oh, so that's why!"

I never understand getting invested on a ship you aren't even familiar with in the first place. Though i guess knowing a basic concept around some ship is enough to get some people into it? Just a weird thing to me i guess.

Hmm... From what I've noticed, a lot of people are into shipping just to fill pretty dolls with tropes and kinks they like. So if the dolls are pretty and they fill basic tropes, I guess that's enough for people? But honestly, forget about shipping, I can't imagine getting invested in a story, world, and characters I don't even know, lol.

I wanted to ask this in a post of it's own so here goes. Why exactly is Clerith as popular as it is? Why are we still having this big competition of the 2 ships? I just don't really get it.

I get the basic idea of 2 lonely people confiding in each other and helping each other grow up as people and the bantering that the dynamic brings can be cute i suppose, but with how little any of the FF7 games actually built them up, i just can't really get onboard for the Clerith ship. They never get anything as majestic as Cloti gets with it's big Lifestream reveals or even the promise scene. There's just a few cute moments and that's about it before Aerith gets killed.

Maybe i just have higher standards for how much i want a romantic relationship to be built to care about it i guess. That side of the ship just doesn't give me enough to be invested.

I'm by no means trying to bash the ship, but i have a hard time understanding why some people call Clerith the best romance ever and such when it barely gets off it's feet before it ends and doesn't really get that much development in the first place.

Since I'm not a Clerith, obviously I can't answer. But I imagine that a part of the appeal is that there's enough there to get invested in the first place but also not enough that people can fill in the blanks. And usually, what people fill the blanks with is more interesting than what's actually there. Or well, that's what I've noticed about other non-canon ships anyway.

Part of it is also just love for Aerith. Her fate is tragic and deeply unfair, her not even being Cloud's one true love after all that is just too much heartbreak for a lot of people. It's one of the reasons I'd like for her to have a bit more of a send-off in the LS with Zack this time around, just to highlight that she isn't left without her love story and there has always been someone as desperate to reunite with her as they wish Cloud was.

I was actually thinking about this and I think I agree with Eerie on this. Like, Aerith is already half-Cetra, the last of her kind, she's the magical girl who can talk to flowers and the planet, she's the only one who can pray for Holy (iirc), she essentially becomes a mother goddess, and she already had/has her tragic love and soulmate story with Zack. So having Cloud's romantic affections on top of that? Feels a bit too much, especially when Tifa was essentially created for Cloud. And yeah, people can be all "misogyny", "moving on", "strong and independent woman", but I'm sorry, that doesn't change her role in the story, lol?

 

[Fakewings_]

Even being ESL aside (I'm also ESL), what they said was CA not coming across as having a "deep spiritual bond," not having no bonds at all. Those are two very different things as well.

You said exactly what I meant, tks

I'm by no means trying to bash the ship, but i have a hard time understanding why some people call Clerith the best romance ever and such when it barely gets off it's feet before it ends and doesn't really get that much development in the first place.

“Two lonely people find common ground and seek comfort in each other”, I see some people said that. IMO, precisely, Aerith reveals her past loneliness throughout the journey, and the ones who comfort her and pull her out of that sadness are Tifa and Cloud. When alone with Cloud at the water tower, she still refused to share more, even though he was willing to listen.
But I haven't seen any scenes in the ReTrilogy where Aerith senses Cloud's loneliness and is the one to comfort him.
The question is: Cloud truly understand Aerith as a person—her burdens, her feelings for Zack, and the constant loneliness she carries. So what about Aerith? To what extent does she understand and empathize with Cloud?

 

[Reaper3Delta]

You said exactly what I meant, tks

“Two lonely people find common ground and seek comfort in each other”, I see some people said that. IMO, precisely, Aerith reveals her past loneliness throughout the journey, and the ones who comfort her and pull her out of that sadness are Tifa and Cloud. When alone with Cloud at the water tower, she still refused to share more, even though he was willing to listen.
But I haven't seen any scenes in the ReTrilogy where Aerith senses Cloud's loneliness and is the one to comfort him.
The question is: Cloud truly understand Aerith as a person—her burdens, her feelings for Zack, and the constant loneliness she carries. So what about Aerith? To what extent does she understand and empathize with Cloud?

So far IIRC Cloud's loneliness as a child is brought by Tifa's convo in her room in Nibelheim, also Yuffie's date brings it too, (loner vibes as a kid) because Tifa told her.

 

[Fakewings_]

The "I want to travel the world (remembering this feeling, heartbeats synced with the sky, ocean, wind) together with you and the part of you that you never knew existed " was touching .

To be honest, I find this scene between Cloud & Aerith far more romantic than the one between Cloud & Tifa. It has depth and feels like the tender whispers between two people in love. But this contrasts with Cloud in the ReTrilogy, where in Rebirth, Cloud is quite talkative and flirty only with Tifa.

 

[Eerie]

I wanted to ask this in a post of it's own so here goes. Why exactly is Clerith as popular as it is? Why are we still having this big competition of the 2 ships? I just don't really get it.

I get the basic idea of 2 lonely people confiding in each other and helping each other grow up as people and the bantering that the dynamic brings can be cute i suppose, but with how little any of the FF7 games actually built them up, i just can't really get onboard for the Clerith ship. They never get anything as majestic as Cloti gets with it's big Lifestream reveals or even the promise scene. There's just a few cute moments and that's about it before Aerith gets killed.

Maybe i just have higher standards for how much i want a romantic relationship to be built to care about it i guess. That side of the ship just doesn't give me enough to be invested.

I'm by no means trying to bash the ship, but i have a hard time understanding why some people call Clerith the best romance ever and such when it barely gets off it's feet before it ends and doesn't really get that much development in the first place.

Honestly, there is shipping, and people can ship whatever and it's fine, and there's canon. Personally I'm not here to discuss "shipping", but to discuss "canon". So that there are a lot of people shipping CA isn't really a problem to me - there are still way more CTs. It's fine but it's when they pretend that it's canon that I'm crossing eyes; CA does not meet the treshold for "canon" aka two characters being in love with each other. Aerith clearly fell for him but a one-sided love never made a pairing canon. Time will also tell if Aerith truly fell for Cloud, or if she fell for Zack's image in Cloud - which I suspect is a possibility too; this should be cleared in p3. If they don't want Zack to feel like second best, they might go for the second option.