30 minutes of brand new footage, & 100 changes to the original FFVII AC

[Cat Rage Room]

Hey Mako, let's burn down Masamune's neighborhood, kill everyone he knows, put him in a tube for a couple of years, and make him think he's someone else when he gets back, and put a gun in his hand and send him off to fight the Taliban, and tell him he has cancer when he gets back.

We'll see how well he knows his shit then.

 

[Makoeyes987]

LOL good point MOG.

It all sounds like something out of some sick torture porn horror movie but yeah, that's essentially what it amounts to. It's something any normal person would be horrified by in reality

It's absurd to think one can just shrug that off and suddenly be a-okay in the span of 2 months because they fought and saved the world. Seriously. Heroes are people too.

 

[Masamune]

I'm not for one moment questioning Cloud's issues, and that he is sure to have a lot of baggage left over, but FFVII taught us that despite all that he still had the backbone to fight for what he believed in and put an end to the demons of his past. There is no use creating character arcs in fiction if you're just going to take the character back to zero because 'ooh he had a hard-life.' So let's say after FFVII Cloud just became a pointless stoner bumming about. Would you say 'Heey, fair enough. He did suffer a lot of shit.' Or would you say 'I played FFVII for THAT!?' The sense of accomplishment in Cloud's character is swept away the moment he becomes an emo too frightened to face the truth and take responsibility for his life. If you can stare the man in the face who destroyed your family, your friends, and your hope in mankind, and screw him up good and proper, then you can fight together for the good of your family.

There's also the whole point that Cloud, Tifa, and practically everyone else close to him realize he's being a douche for running away.

 

[Makoeyes987]

....FFVII didn't teach us that going through all that fighting suddenly makes a maladjusted person suddenly perfect. You're twisting the theme of FFVII. It never showed that Cloud would be "okay" now that he saved the world. It showed that he'd be okay, stepping up to save the world and accepting who his real identity was. That's not in the context of a scenario post world saving.

It's not putting Cloud to zero. It's keeping it realistic in terms of the scenario. It'd be fucking absurd and fantastical for Cloud to suddenly be a well adjusted, happy go lucky guy after only just now living as himself for about a year. After all the shit he's gone through.

Cloud's accomplished a lot, but none of that includes him LIVING outside of the fighting and constant threat of world destruction. FFVII's context did not include that no matter how much you try to twist its theme.

And no, no one called Cloud a douched. They wanted to help him. Tifa lecturing Cloud wasn't her insulting him but trying to make him realize that he isn't alone. Now THATS twisting the theme, too. No one held it against him, or insulted him.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Look, I know how frustrating that is in fiction and in writing, to have a character develop in one way, and then a later work pretty much has that character back to square one. It's really irritating, and hell, you could call that a literary fault of AC (because they could have made up something else). That's definitely a valid criticism. But even then, in Cloud's scenario, his reversion is natural.

But if you want to focus on Cloud HIMSELF, it's definitely not fair to say 'LOL CLOUD YOU SAVED THE WORLD GET OVER IT'. I mean, direct your understandable ire towards the writers, not the character himself.

 

[Shademp]

[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=559.msg23130#msg23130 date=1235601878]
It all sounds like something out of some sick torture porn horror movie but yeah, that's essentially what it amounts to. It's something any normal person would be horrified by in reality
[/quote]
...What kind of movies have you seen?!

Another thing I like about ACC is they that apparently show more of Reno's and Rude's motivations. The compilation has drawn them as people just following orders; not caring for the moral issues for most part. But it seems like they are seeking redemption too because not questioning their orders or the company put the planet in danger
Yup, redemption is everyone's cup of tea post the Meteor incident .

 

[Max Payne]

Cloud was well adjusted at the end of FF7, I figured he would be better prepared to get on with his life given the events of FF7, AC shit all over that belief and told me otherwise.

I thought at the very least his communication skills would have improved after having his psyche dissected and reconstructed.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I think if they were going to put Cloud in a familial scenario that focuses on the world rebuilding itself and moving on, they couldn't realistically and validly make Cloud suddenly be a-okay. Especially with AC happening just TWO years after FFVII.

And....No. That's just not realistic. Cloud was never shown to have been perfect and fully adjusted during the end of FFVII. That's Cloud coping, not being healthy or perfect. I don't understand how people thought Cloud would be smiles, roses and sunshine after FFVII given what the fuck happened in it. Him getting his memories reconstructed so he KNOWS WHO HE IS doesn't suddenly make him well or healthy.

It's like some collective delusion regarding Cloud being some optimistic Zidane clone post FFVII. Healing doesn't happen within the span of a day. I know Lifestream is a magical concept but that's just fucking ridiculous.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I thought at the very least his communication skills would have improved after having his psyche dissected and reconstructed.

You know, I've had an interesting relevation about Cloud's communicative skills, after having a roommate that's a lot like Cloud (without the mental issues).

Some people just aren't big talkers. At all. If you want to know how that person is feeling, you either figure it out, or you don't. In most cases, that person doesn't really give a shit either way, but when they do meet someone dear to them, that person usually knows how to 'read' them without them saying much, and both parties are happy.

 

[Masamune]

....FFVII didn't teach us that going through all that fighting suddenly makes a maladjusted person suddenly perfect. You're twisting the theme of FFVII. It never showed that Cloud would be "okay" now that he saved the world. It showed that he'd be okay, stepping up to save the world and accepting who his real identity was. That's not in the context of a scenario post world saving.

It didn't imply Cloud would be a guilt-ridden emo still paying for his past sins either. But there was certainly more to suggest Cloud had a new chance at life, had the world actually survived.

It's not putting Cloud to zero. It's keeping it realistic in terms of the scenario. It'd be fucking absurd and fantastical for Cloud to suddenly be a well adjusted, happy go lucky guy after only just now living as himself for about a year. After all the shit he's gone through.

Don't put words in my mouth or use hyperbole. I said Cloud would still have baggage, that is understandable. Many warriors have scars, both physical and emotional. BUT Cloud had overcome a lot in FFVII, and one would think such an experience would help in his next battle no matter how futile. To make him up-sticks and run away was pretty extreme imo.

And no, no one called Cloud a douched. They wanted to help him. Tifa lecturing Cloud wasn't her insulting him but trying to make him realize that he isn't alone. Now THATS twisting the theme, too. No one held it against him, or insulted him.

Tifa & Marlene both lost patience with him, and of course they didn't call him a douche *rolleyes* but they acknowledged he was running away from his problems. Running away = cowardice = being a pussy, particularly when you have children depending on you.

 

[Makoeyes987]

[quote author=The Notorious M.O.G. link=topic=559.msg23142#msg23142 date=1235602509]

I thought at the very least his communication skills would have improved after having his psyche dissected and reconstructed.

You know, I've had an interesting relevation about Cloud's communicative skills, after having a roommate that's a lot like Cloud (without the mental issues).

Some people just aren't big talkers. At all. If you want to know how that person is feeling, you either figure it out, or you don't. In most cases, that person doesn't really give a shit either way, but when they do meet someone dear to them, that person usually knows how to 'read' them without them saying much, and both parties are happy.
[/quote]

This. Quote for truth

 

[Max Payne]

[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=559.msg23141#msg23141 date=1235602492]
I think if they were going to put Cloud in a familial scenario that focuses on the world rebuilding itself and moving on, they couldn't realistically and validly make Cloud suddenly be a-okay. Especially with AC happening just TWO years after FFVII[/quote]

No, they could have shown him actually making an effort to better himself instead of reverting back to being a lot worse than he was in FF7.

And....No. That's just not realistic. Cloud was never shown to have been perfect and fully adjusted during the end of FFVII. That's Cloud coping, not being healthy or perfect. I don't understand how people thought Cloud would be smiles, roses and sunshine after FFVII given what the fuck happened in it. Him getting his memories reconstructed so he KNOWS WHO HE IS doesn't suddenly make him well or healthy.

No, he wasn't perfectly adjusted, but he was better adjusted, and making an effort. He seemed happier, and more determined AFTER his major freakout with Tifa. It's no stretch at all to think that after 2 years he would made more of a development.

It's like some collective delusion regarding Cloud being some optimistic Zidane clone post FFVII.

That's an absurd statement. No one's expecting him to be like Zidane and it's not delusional to expect a person's development to continue after 2 years. Cloud was always a fighter, throughout FF7, even when his mind was coming apart he was still making an effort, on all fronts. Trying to hold his mind and his will together.

Healing doesn't happen within the span of a day.

No, but expecting some change after 2 years, especially when he wasn't even all that bad at the end of FF7 is not ridiculous or illogical in the least.

Some people just aren't big talkers. At all. If you want to know how that person is feeling, you either figure it out, or you don't. In most cases, that person doesn't really give a shit either way, but when they do meet someone dear to them, that person usually knows how to 'read' them without them saying much, and both parties are happy.

And such people usually suffer when it comes to personal relationships. Expect people to "read" you and you to not actually express yourself and you will get nowhere in your life with the people you care about.

No one can ever completely "read" someone because no one ever really understands each other completely. Never enough anyway. People who don't talk to each other won't be "happy" for long.

That's irrelevant anyway because Cloud was hardly the person to always sulk when he had problems, or never talked much about what he was thinking, because he certainly did so at a couple points in the original game.

This bullshit about Cloud being a "quiet" person didn't start until the compilation.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

And such people usually suffer when it comes to personal relationships. Expect people to "read" you and you to not actually express yourself and you will get nowhere in your life with the people you care about.

No one can ever completely "read" someone because no one ever really understands each other completely. Never enough anyway.

What? No it isn't. It's just called introversion. While not being introverted myself (in fact, I'm the opposite, extroverted, and I don't know when to shut the fuck up), I have plenty of introverted friends and relatives that maintain healthy, fulfilling relationships with friends, romantic interests, and family members.

It's just about finding someone who 'gets' you, and the same applies to everyone. Introverted people just are most compatible with people that don't need words to know how to feel and express feelings, and just chill with them regardless.

When you're close to someone, 'reading' them enough to maintain a healthy friendship or relationship with someone isn't hard. The roommate I mentioned before is now a rather close friend because I learned how to do that with him.

 

[OWA-2]

[quote author=Dacon link=topic=559.msg23139#msg23139 date=1235602308]Cloud was well adjusted at the end of FF7, I figured he would be better prepared to get on with his life given the events of FF7.[/quote]

Of course he was well adjusted. He still didn't know that his reward for saving the world, would be getting super AIDS together with the rest of the world.

Seriously, Cloud did everything he could to save the planet, and when he finally succeeded... The planet starts dying little by little by an uncureable disease!

 

[Makoeyes987]

Yeah..when did Cloud EVER even TOUCH the issue of losing his loved ones in FFVII when he regained his mind? When did he even have the time to think about it? Because you're saying it never touched on him becoming a "guilt ridden emo" but frankly, FFVII never touched on it period. Which means it was never developed, hence....they didn't go back on anything. It was a facet that needed looking into since it's part of his past.

And if you're going to use hyperbole, then so shall I. Calling him resolving his issues of loss and death "emo" sure sounds like absurd hyperbole to me.

Cloud only overcame his identity issue. That is not everything. Where in FFVII did he figure out his place in the world, or what he'd do once the fighting was over? His identity issue was important but that's not even close to everything necessary to function in reality. That was only the first step.

I think you need to watch AC again. Their frustration was all from the point of wanting to help Cloud and reach out to him. That's not holding it against them. That's frustration at the situation. "Let people in" is what Tifa says to Cloud. If she was really calling him a "douche" and tired of him, then why would she want Cloud to let her in?

And again, no one's saying Cloud's perfect. Apparently you expect him to be, and for him to *gasp* not have any flaws or weaknesses. Bearing in mind he was only gone for around the span of a week.

@Dacon

What are you talking about? Where did Cloud seem happy in FFVII?

And no. He didn't try to hold his mind together. He cracked. Tifa was the one that finally got him to piece together. He'd have been a drooling vegetable in a wheel chair if there had been no outside intervention.

And he wasn't all that bad? Are you fucking serious? You really think a dunk for one day in the Lifestream suddenly is going to heal 4 years of lost time, lost memories, lost loved ones, and tragedy? Him just remembering the past makes it all better? Saving the world is gonna make you suddenly know how to be a father when you have the mentality and development of a 16 year old? That's rich. I don't know what time frame you work on regarding recovery but its clearly an unrealistic one.

Cloud hasn't even grown up yet. Yeah, FFVII really showed how ready for the world he'd be. I never thought he'd have it easy after that.

 

[Max Payne]

[quote author=The Notorious M.O.G. link=topic=559.msg23149#msg23149 date=1235603257]

And such people usually suffer when it comes to personal relationships. Expect people to "read" you and you to not actually express yourself and you will get nowhere in your life with the people you care about.

No one can ever completely "read" someone because no one ever really understands each other completely. Never enough anyway.

What? No it isn't. It's just called introversion. While not being introverted myself (in fact, I'm the opposite, extroverted, and I don't know when to shut the fuck up), I have plenty of introverted friends and relatives that maintain healthy, fulfilling relationships with friends, romantic interests, and family members.

It's just about finding someone who 'gets' you, and the same applies to everyone. Introverted people just are most compatible with people that don't need words to know how to feel and express feelings, and just chill with them regardless.
[/quote]

Oh yeah? Well I was "Introverted" for the majority of the past 5 years and it destroyed the only relationship I had with the one girl who did understand me the most. Because I didn't talk to her, tell her how I was feeling, she was angry, annoyed, and at times outright unresponsive. Eventually she got fed up and found someone who actually did respond to her.

I still have this problem, but I'm not going to pretend like the shit is ok.

People need to talk to each other. I don't know anyone who's ever had a successful relationship that succeeded where this kind of behavior was dominant in either side.

Of course he was well adjusted. He still didn't know that his reward for saving the world, would be getting super AIDS together with the rest of the world.

Seriously, Cloud did everything he could to save the planet, and when he finally succeed... The planet starts dying little by little by an uncureable disease.

I'll give you that. But still, he didn't even try to fight it. He just ran away and cut himself off from everyone who gave to shits about him. That was a little extreme imo.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Yeah, Cloud did try to fight. Hard. He did his best trying to move on, start a life, live with Tifa, be happy, etc.

He was doing pretty good too, despite how hard it was. But then he cracked when faced with an impending death he could not fight, that brought back all the guilt and shit. The weight of it all caused him to fold. Death plus guilt and pain isn't something you can hack away with a sword.

Again, its not like Cloud has a nice good 4 years of life lessons, experiences of human-to-human peer bonding, education, life experience, and all the other things we take for granted from having a full, healthy adolescence. The guy was thrust from troubled, military bound pre-teen, to adulthood in an instant.

I don't know what the hell makes you think he's suddenly going to be a full fledged, healthy man now. He NEEDS someone like Tifa and his friends to help him. The fucker has to play catch up now.

 

[Masamune]

And if you're going to use hyperbole, then so shall I. Calling him resolving his issues of loss and death "emo" sure sounds like absurd hyperbole to me.

What do you mean, you always use hyperbole! We said Cloud shouldn't have been an emo wuss and you change it to Zidane! =o

Cloud only overcame his identity issue. That is not everything. Where in FFVII did he figure out his place in the world, or what he'd do once the fighting was over? His identity issue was important but that's not even close to everything necessary to function in reality. That was only the first step.

Please explain why this has anything to do with running away.

I think you need to watch AC again. Their frustration was all from the point of wanting to help Cloud and reach out to him. That's not holding it against them. That's frustration at the situation. "Let people in" is what Tifa says to Cloud. If she was really calling him a "douche" and tired of him, then why would she want Cloud to let her in?

I never said she was "tired" of him. You know the point I was making, but you're trying to pick it apart for no good reason. They knew what Cloud was doing was wrong, and both Tifa & Marlene snapped at him about it. They weren't particularly vehement, but the frustration was there for all to see.

And again, no one's saying Cloud's perfect. Apparently you expect him to be, and for him to *gasp* not have any flaws or weaknesses. Bearing in mind he was only gone for around the span of a week.

Again, bullshit. I said Cloud had scars and flaws, but that doesn't mean he can become a total wimp at the drop of a hat.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Oh yeah? Well I was "Introverted" for the majority of the past 5 years and it destroyed the only relationship I had with the one girl who did understand me the most. Because I didn't talk to her, tell her how I was feeling, she was angry, annoyed, and at times outright unresponsive. Eventually she got fed up and found someone who actually did respond to her.

I still have this problem, but I'm not going to pretend like the shit is ok.

People need to talk to each other. I don't know anyone who's ever had a successful relationship that succeeded where this kind of behavior was dominant in either side.

Keep in mind that I'm not saying that introversion excuses shutting up like a clam and NEVER talking out problems and speaking up when something is wrong. Just like there are challenges in dealing with extroverts, this is a challenge in dealing with introverts.

Sometimes it happens to the extreme, but many 'natural' introverts pull it off quite well, speaking only when needed to. The problem you described to me is that you didn't speak up when you needed to, and that's what messed up the situation.

And of course some people aren't just natural introverts. You may not be one. Of course, I don't mean to overanalyze you or your situation, so my apologies for any overintrusion.

On a related note, the same thing happened with Cloud. He was feeling a lot of shit inside, so instead of letting people in, he ran away. Is that what he should have done? Obviously not. But it's understandable and it doesn't betray his natural personality of being an introvert.

 

[Max Payne]

Cloud only overcame his identity issue. That is not everything. Where in FFVII did he figure out his place in the world, or what he'd do once the fighting was over? His identity issue was important but that's not even close to everything necessary to function in reality. That was only the first step.

Cloud dealt with his past, came to terms with his battle with Sephiroth, and got closer to the woman he loved. That's not just one issue solved there.

I think you need to watch AC again. Their frustration was all from the point of wanting to help Cloud and reach out to him. That's not holding it against them. That's frustration at the situation. "Let people in" is what Tifa says to Cloud. If she was really calling him a "douche" and tired of him, then why would she want Cloud to let her in?

Vincent, Tifa, Reno, Rude, and Marlene all made it clear that they disproved of Cloud's behavior.

And again, no one's saying Cloud's perfect. Apparently you expect him to be, and for him to *gasp* not have any flaws or weaknesses. Bearing in mind he was only gone for around the span of a week.

What are you talking about? Where did Cloud seem happy in FFVII?

And no. He didn't try to hold his mind together. He cracked. Tifa was the one that finally got him to piece together. He'd have been a drooling vegetable in a wheel chair if there had been no outside intervention.

Throughout the game he held his mind together until Sephiroth ripped it apart. He dealt with his problems until he was too diseased to pull himself back together.

And he wasn't all that bad? Are you fucking serious? You really think a dunk for one day in the Lifestream suddenly is going to heal 4 years of lost time, lost memories, lost loved ones, and tragedy? Him just remembering the past makes it all better? Saving the world is gonna make you suddenly know how to be a father when you have the mentality and development of a 16 year old? That's rich. I don't know what time frame you work on regarding recovery but its clearly an unrealistic one.

You're clearly not even trying to understand what people are getting at here. No one fucking said he'd be all honkey dory after that shit, BUT HE WAS TRYING. He had hope, he was doing his best to make good on everything. His outlook had improved, and he was moving on. He had Tifa, and all his friends there to help him along.

There is absolutely nothing fucking unrealistic about expecting a person who was dealing with his issues with the aid of friends to have made some improvement on them after 2 fucking years.

Cloud hasn't even grown up yet. Yeah, FFVII really showed how ready for the world he'd be. I never thought he'd have it easy after that.

He fought against intense mental issues, an incredible amount of adversity, and made friends with some of the most difficult personalities. He's made more progress that most people who have "grown up" and dealt with similar issues.

Sometimes it happens to the extreme, but many 'natural' introverts pull it off quite well, speaking only when needed to. The problem you described to me is that you didn't speak up when you needed to, and that's what messed up the situation.

Human communication a vital part of life, refraining from doing that to any extended amount is hardly natural or healthy.

On a related note, the same thing happened with Cloud. He was feeling a lot of shit inside, so instead of letting people in, he ran away. Is that what he should have done? Obviously not. But it's understandable and it doesn't betray his natural personality of being an introvert.

Cloud isn't an introvert. Or at least he wasn't until the compilation. He talked about his problems in FF7, and interacting his his friends like most normal people would, well most normal people who could stay calm in a situation like theirs. At least that's how I saw it.

He seemed pretty ok until Sephiroth ripped his mind a new asshole.

My point is Cloud is a strong person. He always tried, until sickness made him incapable of it. I mean, did he suddenly stop fighting, and sulk when these problems surfaced? No.

He fought back, hell because he fought back he stopped himself from killing Aerith himself. He always seemed to try.

We all obviously wound up interpreting his character differently.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Human communication a vital part of life, refraining from doing that to any extended amount is hardly natural or healthy.

...That's what I said. However, there are some people who don't do a lot of their communication through words. There are some people who don't really care much for too many interpersonal relationships at all. They speak when they need to, but other than that they're defined as 'introverted'. Like I said before, I know many of such people who lead happy and fulfilling lives.

 

[Makoeyes987]

What do you mean, you always use hyperbole! We said Cloud shouldn't have been an emo wuss and you change it to Zidane! =o

Exactly, I'm just balancing it out

Please explain why this has anything to do with running away.

Because expecting Cloud to suddenly "know" how to properly deal with shit like this is unrealistic and absurd. He has no fucking experience or plan to live a normal life. He's as developed as a maladjusted 16 year old who ran away from his village to be a hero in the military. He isn't exactly someone who "knows better." He hasn't been taught. He finally LEARNED that lesson IN Advent Children.

I never said she was "tired" of him. You know the point I was making, but you're trying to pick it apart for no good reason. They knew what Cloud was doing was wrong, and both Tifa & Marlene snapped at him about it. They weren't particularly vehement, but the frustration was there for all to see.

Say what you mean, and mean what you say? Sadly, the internet doesn't quite convey the subtle nuances of vocal conversation so I can only work with what I'm given. Yes, they snapped but it wasn't out of annoyance towards him or being fed up with him. They just wanted Cloud to come back and open up. It's not them reprimanding him for being a bad person or insulting him. They're loved ones, so of course they'd snap.

Again, bullshit. I said Cloud had scars and flaws, but that doesn't mean he can become a total wimp at the drop of a hat.

So he can only be as flawed as you want him to be. Seriously, Cloud's a wimp now for being who he is? That's real understanding. The whole fucking point is showing his vulnerability and him overcoming his weakness. He's not a wimp because he finally overcame it and moved forward.

I mean, I know you love Kenshiro dude, but sadly not everyone can be as stoic as stone like him. It takes all kinds.

Cloud dealt with his past, came to terms with his battle with Sephiroth, and got closer to the woman he loved. That's not just one issue solved there.

And none of that shit even touches on Cloud suddenly being able to move on in a post-Meteor Crisis world, or resolving his issues of loss or guilt. Or having a terminal illness. Or maturing.

Vincent, Tifa, Reno, Rude, and Marlene all made it clear that they disproved of Cloud's behavior.

First off, what the fuck do Reno and Rude know? And second, they disapproved of it because they had a vested interest in Cloud's well being. No shit. The point I was making was, was that they were doing it not because they thought he was a bad person, or a "douche" or "wimp" but because they loved him.

Throughout the game he held his mind together until Sephiroth ripped it apart. He dealt with his problems until he was too diseased to pull himself back together.

...That wasn't Cloud. That was Cloud under the influence of Jenova cells. Him holding onto his false persona was exactly what caused him to crack. He was clutching a lie. And because of that, when Sephiroth showed him the truth, the persona he was grasping so strongly dissolved away leaving him a mere shell.

You're clearly not even trying to understand what people are getting at here. No one fucking said he'd be all honkey dory after that shit, BUT HE WAS TRYING. He had hope, he was doing his best to make good on everything. His outlook had improved, and he was moving on. He had Tifa, and all his friends there to help him along.

There is absolutely nothing fucking unrealistic about expecting a person who was dealing with his issues with the aid of friends to have made some improvement on them after 2 fucking years.

KEY WORD BEING TRYING. WHICH HE DID.

And he failed. The fucker did improve but it doesn't mean shit if he doesn't have the internal skills to deal with it. He's not perfect and holy shit...it fell apart and he needed to try again. What the hell is unrealistic about *that*?

He fought against intense mental issues, an incredible amount of adversity, and made friends with some of the most difficult personalities. He's made more progress that most people who have "grown up" and dealt with similar issues.

Again...saving the world and regaining your own persona doesn't make you well-adjusted. He just REMEMBERED who he was. Not fix who he was.

And Cloud was never an introvert until the Compilation, are you fucking serious? Where the hell does Cloud exhibit extroverted behavior in FFVII once he regains his mind. Please. Show me. I want to see this.

 

[Max Payne]

[quote author=The Notorious M.O.G. link=topic=559.msg23162#msg23162 date=1235604583]

Human communication a vital part of life, refraining from doing that to any extended amount is hardly natural or healthy.

...That's what I said. However, there are some people who don't do a lot of their communication through words. There are some people who don't really care much for too many interpersonal relationships at all. They speak when they need to, but other than that they're defined as 'introverted'. Like I said before, I know many of such people who lead happy and fulfilling lives.
[/quote]
But they generally do not clam up and keep everything inside. They still like to talk, discuss their problems with other people, and resolve them.

But I still don't think Cloud is an introvert. He doesn't like being alone, and seems to prefer the company of others, rather than his own. Or at least he did before AC, and his "super aids" as OWA-2 said.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

But they generally do not clam up and keep everything inside. They still like to talk, discuss their problems with other people, and resolve them.

Those are the 'natural' introverts I was referring earlier. Some people can pull it off like a pro. Hell, Cloud was an introvert in Crisis Core and still spoke and such with his friend Zack. See? Happy medium!

But I still don't think Cloud is an introvert. He doesn't like being alone, and seems to prefer the company of others, rather than his own. Or at least he did before AC, and his "super aids" as OWA-2 said.

If you interpreted the character differently, well, that's one thing, but I never once considered Cloud as anything other than an introvert.

 

[Masamune]

Because expecting Cloud to suddenly "know" how to properly deal with shit like this is unrealistic and absurd. He has no fucking experience or plan to live a normal life. He's as developed as a maladjusted 16 year old who ran away from his village to be a hero in the military. He isn't exactly someone who "knows better." He hasn't been taught. He finally LEARNED that lesson IN Advent Children.

Cloud isn’t as screwed-up as you like to think. He did go through a lot, as you and many others were quick to glorify, but he developed as a man and a person in FFVII. All that work was obviously for nothing when he can’t even fight for his family.

Say what you mean, and mean what you say? Sadly, the internet doesn't quite convey the subtle nuances of vocal conversation so I can only work with what I'm given. Yes, they snapped but it wasn't out of annoyance towards him or being fed up with him. They just wanted Cloud to come back and open up. It's not them reprimanding him for being a bad person or insulting him. They're loved ones, so of course they'd snap.

They were annoyed with him, Mako. How you can’t see that, I don’t know. It wasn’t all ‘Aww, you darling, Cloud. Please come home to us.’ There were times they snapped at him in frustration because they disapproved of his actions.

So he can only be as flawed as you want him to be. Seriously, Cloud's a wimp now for being who he is? That's real understanding. The whole fucking point is showing his vulnerability and him overcoming his weakness. He's not a wimp because he finally overcame it and moved forward.

What he’s become is the problem. SE trying to paint Cloud as a wangsty emo was obviously for the demographic, as well as rebooting his character so they could drag his conflict out all over again.

I mean, I know you love Kenshiro dude, but sadly not everyone can be as stoic as stone like him. It takes all kinds.

Kenshiro is a pretty emotional character behind the poker-faced expression. And variety is the spice of life, but that doesn’t mean I can’t call bullshits on bad characterization.