ChaosBringers, Reborn!

[VivaLaValenwind]

Thanks all I'm thinking of maybe drawing Vincent playing the piano since i dunno i always pictured him as knowing how Vincent breaking into song would twist my feelings so much...i'd be laughing my ass off and turning red from embarassment XD Go check out the Bleach musical if u wanna know what he would sound like in song haha

 

[Mantichorus]

Yeah, that would be pretty cool. And everyone seems to think of Vincent playing a piano, if any instrument (oh, wait... I read one fic where Vincent played a guitar. But he commited suicide shortly after, so, yeah. :-/ Mebbe he should've stuck to the piano).

Haha, me too. I think Vincent would react the same, too - well, maybe not the laughing.

Uhhh, thanks, but no thanks.

 

[VivaLaValenwind]

Yeah, that would be pretty cool. And everyone seems to think of Vincent playing a piano, if any instrument (oh, wait... I read one fic where Vincent played a guitar. But he commited suicide shortly after, so, yeah. :-/ Mebbe he should've stuck to the piano).

Haha, me too. I think Vincent would react the same, too - well, maybe not the laughing.

Uhhh, thanks, but no thanks.

Oh wow, hahaha that comment about this guitar made me laugh Where the hell did everyone else go on this thread

 

[Mantichorus]

They've all gone to feed the master... you're the only one left... XD Sorry, I'm reading Dracula, and Reinfeld's ...interesting. Seriously, I have no idea. Must be stuff going on IRL. Me, I'm here to take my mind off of stressing too much over something that's gonna happen IRL.

OK, we need a a new topic... ... ... ...Actually, I was wondering, since I mentioned it in my last post: how many of you think Vincent would actually end up commiting suicide? It seems to be a popular theme in some fanfics (one "humorous" one had Vincent shoot himself and then rejoin the group a couple hours later, saying Chaos wouldn't let him die).

Personally, I don't think he would. To quote Steppenwolf, "a glimmer of belief still tells him that he is to drink this suffering, this frightful suffering in his heart to the dregs".

 

[VivaLaValenwind]

They've all gone to feed the master... you're the only one left... XD Sorry, I'm reading Dracula, and Reinfeld's ...interesting. Seriously, I have no idea. Must be stuff going on IRL. Me, I'm here to take my mind off of stressing too much over something that's gonna happen IRL.

OK, we need a a new topic... ... ... ...Actually, I was wondering, since I mentioned it in my last post: how many of you think Vincent would actually end up commiting suicide? It seems to be a popular theme in some fanfics (one "humorous" one had Vincent shoot himself and then rejoin the group a couple hours later, saying Chaos wouldn't let him die).

Personally, I don't think he would. To quote Steppenwolf, "a glimmer of belief still tells him that he is to drink this suffering, this frightful suffering in his heart to the dregs".

I personally don't see him as the suicidal type rather the mopey type otherwise he would've shot his own ass a long time ago Well if Lucrecia died I would see that happening but other than that not really XD

 

[Mantichorus]

It's hard to keep a conversation going when there's only two of us...especially when you agree with me.

The strange thing is that the majority of writers (at least, the ones I've read) actually write that sort of story very well, despite the fact that it really doesn't seem the sort of thing Vincent would do. ...Mind you, I once read a well-written fanfic where Cloud was the one who burnt Nibelheim down, and post-traumatic stress convinced everyone that Sephiroth did it (yes, even Sephiroth was convinced, it was that traumatic).

Ho-hum, as I'm bored, I'll post the link to the chapter I want beta-read. Lol, it's been up for about a month, and no-one's said anything, so it's either hopeless or wonderful. http://thelifestream.net/forums/showthread.php?t=701

 

[Kamui]

Howdy everyone!!! I'm sorry to have been absent for such and extensive amount of time, I didn't mean to. My Junior Thesis and college stuff devoured my life. So I have returned.

Now that that's out of the way, I would like to see this picture of Vincent playing the piano. Ooh, I got an idea of him having learned to play the violin! Then maybe at some point in my KH fic, he and Squall can do a violin/piano duet. Who knows, maybe this will spark Violin Vincent to tour with Piano Squall. XD

Oh and Manti, link to the PTS fic please.

I see Vincent as someone who could be pushed to the brink but he wouldn't go over unless he was absolutely traumatized into it. Yeah he really doesn't seem the type, just gets all down on himself, but no real suicide depression there.

 

[Arianna]

Welcome back, Kamui. It's nice to see old friends.

Manti, I'm still here - just not sure what to say.

Other things have been very time consuming, so I've not been saying much.

Suicide and Vincent: Well, I can't see him going that route either.

That said, I can see himself dying for someone he cares about.

It's stated that those who commit suicide really don't want to diie, that it's 'a cry for help'.

Sometimes, they see no other way out of their problems.

 

[VivaLaValenwind]

Okay so i was thinking about this today randomly. So i was thinking about how Vincent seems to be the only one who's actually killed a person. If you think about it all the other party members really haven't...minus Cloud vs Sephiroth, so i was thinking that in DOC you kill well i believe its over 1000 people by the end of the game which makes me wonder if he really cares or not that he's killing people. Sure they're bad guys but I dunno it kinda surprised me as i was thinking this today

 

[Arianna]

I prefer to see the compassion in the man; I think he does care about those he has killed, but he also cares about the larger picture: the people he kills are 1) people who want to apprehend him, alive or dead and/or 2) people who wish to maim and hurt innocent people, once again trying to bring about the destruction of the world. This is in reference to Dirge of Cerberus, specifically. To me, Vincent has a lot of heart, and I think his mantle means more than just what happened in the Shinra Manor years ago.

 

[Mantichorus]

Welcome back, Kamui, Ari.

@KAM: I have no idea what PTS means, but you've already read that story. It's the one with Zack vs Vincent. But, >>LINK HERE<<

@ARI: Well, I don't know what to say most the time either, but it doesn't stop me (unfortunately...). Anyway, why'd you direct it at me specifically?

@VIVA: Actually, they've all killed people at one time or another, even if only in the party (seriously, you get stopped by members of SOLDIER and infantrymen every time you enter a ShinRa base, and it never even slows them down

Spoiler

even Cait Sith, while he's still "working" for the ShinRa

).

And Barret was involved in at least two bombings as part of AVALANCHE. When Dyne says that there's too much blood on his hands

Spoiler

for him to hold Marlene again

, Barret says that his are no cleaner.

But, yeah, Vincent would feel guilty about it. After all, he feels guilt over things that aren't his fault (what happened to Lucrecia and Sephiroth - although, in part, this could be survivour's guilt...), so any life that he directly takes... it would be another sin to seek redemption for.

 

[Kamui]

I don't think he has a totally guilty conscious complex, since he never apologizes for anything that happens in his general vicinity. But I can see him with survivor's guilt. But the beautiful thing about Vincent, or one of them rather, is that even though he knows all this bad stuff happened he wants to do something about it. He doesn't like conflict, as DoC can show, but he will involve himself if it's the right thing to do.

Which reminds me, I should draw some Vincent artwork while I'm in English. That class should really be relabeled as: "Art with Literature class" XD

 

[Mantichorus]

Yeah, actually, I've been rethinking what I said in my last post. I think that in the line of duty, it might not bother Vincent. OK, we don't know what training he had in the Turks, nor do we know the propaganda of the time, but considering that during his time as a Turk he was trained at least as a bodyguard, he must have been prepared to have to shoot to kill as a last resort.

Therefore, he might consider there to be an unspoken contract between him and anyone he has to kill for duty. Whoever it was, they believed in what they were doing strongly enough to put their life on the line to see it through. ("Gotta respect that.")

Still, putting himself through the ringer for it, and feeling guilty for it, are two different things. *shrugs*

 

[VivaLaValenwind]

@VIVA: Actually, they've all killed people at one time or another, even if only in the party (seriously, you get stopped by members of SOLDIER and infantrymen every time you enter a ShinRa base, and it never even slows them down

Spoiler

even Cait Sith, while he's still "working" for the ShinRa

).

And Barret was involved in at least two bombings as part of AVALANCHE. When Dyne says that there's too much blood on his hands

Spoiler

for him to hold Marlene again

, Barret says that his are no cleaner.

But, yeah, Vincent would feel guilty about it. After all, he feels guilt over things that aren't his fault (what happened to Lucrecia and Sephiroth - although, in part, this could be survivour's guilt...), so any life that he directly takes... it would be another sin to seek redemption for.

Haha i totally forgot about the random encounters. I can't really blame Barret too much though since one of them was by accident...i think? I dunno haven't played for awhile. But yeah I have to say that Vin is the polar opposite of Zack since Zack actually tries not to kill people...although i have to say that knocking out people with a gun is rather difficult

 

[Arianna]

Speaking of random encounters, has anyone found Yuffie after finding Vincent? If you have, and you spoke to Vincent after defeating Yuffie, but before speaking to her, he speaks about her being familiar. Anyone ever figure that one out, or wonder what that's all about?

@ARI: Well, I don't know what to say most the time either, but it doesn't stop me (unfortunately...). Anyway, why'd you direct it at me specifically?

I directed it towards you because you mentioned only 'two of you' being around and still holding a conversation. Sorry I've been absent here; some things were getting to me and I needed to deal with them.

~ To everyone!

 

[Mantichorus]

The bombings weren't by accident, but Jesse does say after the first one Cloud takes part in that she didn't think it would be so powerful. Maybe her math sucks? As for Vincent knocking people out, he could always try pistol-whipping them at close range. Or stock more of those tranquilisers Reeve gave him to fight Shelke with. Oh, side note on that - LOL!!! Why did we never hear more of these? OK, that deserves to be a thread in it's own right...

Ari - no, I haven't, but I do remember hearing that. Matter-of-fact, it seems to be the cornerstone of the old (and no logner used) theory that Vincent was Wutaian. Some people also used it to argue that Sephiroth and Cloud were only created five years ago. I think most people tend to look at it now as Vincent met her mother while he was in the Turks.

 

[Arianna]

... Oh, side note on that - LOL!!! Why did we never hear more of these? OK, that deserves to be a thread in it's own right...

Hear more about what? Sorry, me lost. Do you mean the tranquilizer darts/bullets? ... You think Vincent would hesitate using them on Yuffie? I can see it now: Yuffie's jumping around in her usual hyper way, and all of a sudden bam! There's gunfire! But only once. Yuffie goes down into peaceful slumber. Poor Yuffie.

Ari - no, I haven't, but I do remember hearing that. Matter-of-fact, it seems to be the cornerstone of the old (and no logner used) theory that Vincent was Wutaian. Some people also used it to argue that Sephiroth and Cloud were only created five years ago. I think most people tend to look at it now as Vincent met her mother while he was in the Turks.

There could be a few other possibilites - such as since his father was a paleotologist, it's credible that he traveled a lot, or perhaps Yuffie's curiousity led her to explore the mansion alone and Vincent half awoke while she was staring at him (or something), perhaps even Yuffie could hold similarities to his own mother - if Vincent really didn't know (his mother) that well (ie: she died when he was very young.) I'm just throwing out possibilities.

... Anyhow, it's really interesting! I wish we could find out.

 

[VivaLaValenwind]

Vincent with tranquilizers gives me an image of him running around in a zoo shooting animals

 

[Arianna]

Vincent with tranquilizers gives me an image of him running around in a zoo shooting animals

I actually see him using them on Yuffie! Well, when she's hyper- ... Hyper!

 

[Mantichorus]

Hear more about what? Sorry, me lost. Do you mean the tranquilizer darts/bullets? ... You think Vincent would hesitate using them on Yuffie? I can see it now: Yuffie's jumping around in her usual hyper way, and all of a sudden bam! There's gunfire! But only once. Yuffie goes down into peaceful slumber. Poor Yuffie.

Hey, you can't say "poor Yuffie" when you're the one shooting at her! But yes, I was talking about the tranqs... maybe it's just cos I'm so used to the Metal Gear Solid games (1 - 3, anyway...), but I think tranquiliser weapons are cool. But then, I'm also largely pacificistic.

There could be a few other possibilites - such as since his father was a paleotologist, it's credible that he traveled a lot, or perhaps Yuffie's curiousity led her to explore the mansion alone and Vincent half awoke while she was staring at him (or something), perhaps even Yuffie could hold similarities to his own mother - if Vincent really didn't know (his mother) that well (ie: she died when he was very young.) I'm just throwing out possibilities.

... Anyhow, it's really interesting! I wish we could find out.

Yeah, those are good points... actually, I've just remembered an old joke from ACF I came up with, based on a bit of Red Dwarf.

CLOUD: So, will you join us?
VINCENT: No.
CLOUD: No.
VINCENT: No, I think, erm, I'm better off where I am.
YUFFIE: But you're in a coffin!
VINCENT: And meeting you guys has really made me appreciate it a whole lot more.

Anyway, earlier I thought of something interesting. I was having to give someone training at work (cover for future vay-cay), and, being as unused to prolonged speaking as I am, my throat began to feel a bit sore. So, I got to wondering... d'you think Vincent suffered from the same problem in DC? All of a sudden, the laconic guy has to carry the story!

Which lead me to something else. His voice wasn't as deep while he was a Turk, yeah? So maybe his voice as it is now, is due to all of those years of vocal atrophy (for want of a better term)... OK, last point, maybe pretty obvious.

 

[Kamui]

I have a feeling if he used a tranqulizer gun then the game would have gone very differently...

Cid: @(&#*^@^*^
Vincent: *KOs*

Yuffie: VINNNNNNYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!
Vincent: *KOs*

Cloud: I'm not actually a SOLDIER.
Vincent: *KOs*

Sephiroth: MOTHEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!
Vincent: *KOs*

Barret: F*cking Shin-Ra dogs!
Vincent: *KOs*

Tifa: Okay we can handle this!
Vincent: *KOs*

Aerith: *praying on alter*
Vincent: *KOs*

Nanaki: I don't see why you have to tranquilize everyone.
Vincent: *KOs*

Yes that is pretty much my view on it. XD Part two is coming soon!

And Manti I love the gag! As to the vocal atrophy I think it also partially has to do with the fact he's got a group of beasts inside him. All of them sort of growl (except for Hellmasker, I always picture him cackling) so that could also contribute too.

 

[Mantichorus]

LOL at Nanaki being the voice of reason. And Vincent still tranq'ing him. I wonder how Vincent would react to all those games magazines and sites that gave DC bad reviews...?

DIRGE OF CERBERUS: FINAL FANTASY VII = 5/10
Pft! Thud! (The sound of a dart being fired, followed by a body hitting the floor)

And I have to reiterate that I ripped most of the dialogue from an episode of Red Dwarf for that joke in my last post. Seriously, I just did Cloud's initial dialogue, and changed "in a coffin" from "dead". Although, that wording would work, too...

Funny you saying about Hellmasker cackling... that's how I've always imagined it, too. Except, one time I decided to go with a real mind screw (and this is in a published fanfic, unusually for me):

Death Gigas and Hellmasker kept appearing at the edge of his vision, before going again, Death Gigas rumbling to itself, and Hellmasker mumbling to itself, every now and again releasing a chuckle too alike to Hojo’s for Vincent’s nerves.

Of course, this reminds me I have to find a use for this piece of dialogue in another humorous fanfic (as the one I wrote it for has crashed and burned):

"Why does everyone blame this on ME?" Cloud asked in an incredulous manner.

"Because it IS your fault," Vincent growled, in a manner that had a legion of fangirls fangasming.

Cloud shrugged. "Well, as long as there's a reason..."

 

[Arianna]

This really isn't the place for this, but... as Project G in CC was named after Gillian, not Genesis... why is the project that created Seph called Project S, not Project L?

I can only guess, but I believe it's because the child was the one receiving the Jenova cells, not the mother.

Ah, maybe he's just asexual.

I don't think so, because the pronoun 'he' is used even when discussing the spirit that is Chaos, without inhabiting any living being. This is shown in Dirge of Cerberus, during chapter seven (I believe), when on the Sierra/Shera.

Of course, this reminds me I have to find a use for this piece of dialogue in another humorous fanfic (as the one I wrote it for has crashed and burned):

"Why does everyone blame this on ME?" Cloud asked in an incredulous manner.

"Because it IS your fault," Vincent growled, in a manner that had a legion of fangirls fangasming.

Cloud shrugged. "Well, as long as there's a reason..."

You do understand that this could go both ways. Of course, I don't think Vincent would be as clueless as a stereotypically blond Cloud.

 

[Mantichorus]

I can only guess, but I believe it's because the child was the one receiving the Jenova cells, not the mother.

...Wow, talk about a blast from the past. I, uh, answered that one for myself a while ago. But, yeah, that was pretty much the conclusion I came to, too.

You do understand that this could go both ways. Of course, I don't think Vincent would be as clueless as a stereotypically blond Cloud.

What, some fangirls might be insulted? But, in context, it was Cloud's fault in the story, so Vincent was merely stating fact. And he wasn't aware he was in a story.

...Wait, I'm confused, and don't think I'm even talking about what you were talking about now.

I always thought asexual referred to sexuality, not sex or gender? Anyway, like I've said before, I believe that anatomically, Chaos isn't male or female, but its gender identity is male (i.e., Chaos has a masculine voice, speaks of itself as male (if not the plural - I like having Chaos call himself "we"), etc.).

 

[Arianna]

...Wow, talk about a blast from the past. I, uh, answered that one for myself a while ago. But, yeah, that was pretty much the conclusion I came to, too.

...

I always thought asexual referred to sexuality, not sex or gender? Anyway, like I've said before, I believe that anatomically, Chaos isn't male or female, but its gender identity is male (i.e., Chaos has a masculine voice, speaks of itself as male (if not the plural - I like having Chaos call himself "we"), etc.).

Yeah, I was reading past posts just to check up on my side of some things. Anyhow, that was one thing I came across and didn't recall an answer to it, so... Nothing big really.

As for 'asexuality' - you may be right. I still like the idea of Chaos being part of the god Chaos - which would link VII (at least) to Final Fantasy I and Dissidia. In that, he is definitely a he. But, yeah, he...