Character Battle QF4: Tifa vs Fang

[Max Payne]

she doesnt have much of a storyline outside of cloud
hell nomura even says he uses tifa as a "window" to cloud who isn't very open so she's his mouthpiece too
they dont use her character for much outside of how it can benefit cloud

i do not find her particularly interesting but that's just like, my opinion man

Cloud being a part of her story doesn't take away her own. That doesn't mean she doesn't have her own story.

Her own personal dilemma and how she feels about Shinra and what she's done to get revenge on them is a HUGE part of her character. I don't know how you could miss that.

So much so that her guilt and sense of responsibility played a huge part of her Case of Tifa story, much more than Cloud did.

The idea that she has no story outside of him just is just a fallacy.

You're free to feel however you want but when you say things like that you're opening yourself to debate well past the initial stance of "It's just my opinion".

I don't ever recall Noruma-san saying that she's his mouthpiece either, but tbh I wouldn't care cause he's not the writer.

 

[Zee]

Her own personal dilemma and how she feels about Shinra and what she's done to get revenge on them is a HUGE part of her character. I don't know how you could miss that.

i missed it because they mention it like a passing sentence and then toss it away in favor of focusing on cloud's bullshit

instead of case of tifa being about TIFA AND HER GUILT OVER KILLING PEOPLE she constantly moans about cloud's depression and issues

crisis core thought her dressing up as a sexy cowgirl for cloud took priority over expanding her feelings about shinra

they give the slightest insight into tifa's feelings before shifting focus to how it affects cloud/her relationship with cloud/cloud cloud cloud its dumb

You're free to feel however you want but when you say things like that you're opening yourself to debate well past the initial stance of "It's just my opinion".

saying her personality doesn't appeal to me is a non debatable opinion you blackard

 

[Max Payne]

i missed it because they mention it like a passing sentence and then toss it away in favor of focusing on cloud's bullshit

...Not really.

instead of case of tifa being about TIFA AND HER GUILT OVER KILLING PEOPLE she constantly moans about cloud's depression and issues

I didn't get that at all.

they give the slightest insight into tifa's feelings before shifting focus to how it affects cloud/her relationship with cloud/cloud cloud cloud its dumb

They don't? They've given plenty of insight into her feelings. You describe her as if she's some sort of caricature and has no thoughts or personality of her own. That isn't true at all, and if you played FF7 I don't see how you can feel that way.

saying her personality doesn't appeal to me is a non debatable opinion you blackard

No shit? that's not the point of that post at all. I'm clearly saying that in reference to the rest of your post about how she has no story past Cloud which isn't true at all.

 

[Roger]

I like AC Tifa, she's still a martial artist barkeeper, motherfigure to Marlene, involved with Cloud, she's more softspoken compared to how she was in OG, and more willing to just call out Cloud on his crap, showing they are at a more familiar stage of their relationship.
She's actually allowed to grow up a little, she, Rufus and Marlene are perhaps the only ones that do in AC. With Cloud they admitted they regressed him to a more familiar persona (with in-story good reasons provided, but still), Turks are mostly comic relief and the rest have fairly onenote appearances.

 

[Zee]

You describe her as if she's some sort of caricature and has no thoughts or personality of her own. That isn't true at all, and if you played FF7 I don't see how you can feel that way.

just in ff7 no
but the point of a compilation is to flesh out a character not spread out one aspect of them so thin they become a watered down version of what they were

either way i prefer fang's devil may care/swag attitude to tifa's introverted nature so
yar

 

[Marle]

I never really thought Tifa was all about Cloud in the OG. :T

She was a pivotal point in helping tell his story, yeah and he definitely relied on her a lot. But she spent a huge portion of her life without the dude. He's never defined her as a character, If anything Tifa is a defining factor for Cloud's character, imo.

 

[Tifabelle]

crisis core thought her dressing up as a sexy cowgirl for cloud took priority over expanding her feelings about shinra

Her feelings toward shinra didn't come into play until after that though.

It might have been mentioned before Crisis Core about her picking that outfit out for Cloud but I don't remember so just ignore me.

 

[Max Payne]

just in ff7 no
but the point of a compilation is to flesh out a character not spread out one aspect of them so thin they become a watered down version of what they were

You already know how I feel about the compilation so there's not much of an argument there, I feel like she was too much of a bit player.

My issue is with what you said in relation to ff7 itself

Tifa has her own personal story and stake in that game, beyond just Cloud, despite how huge a role it plays in her life.

either way i prefer fang's devil may care/swag attitude to tifa's introverted nature so
yar

That's fine, no one's arguing that.

 

[Marle]

Her feelings toward shinra didn't come into play until after that though.

It might have been mentioned before Crisis Core about her picking that outfit out for Cloud but I don't remember so just ignore me.

They didn't show Tifa freaking out over seeing her father and saying how much she hates ShinRa etc did they? I can't remember. I haven't played CC in a few years. :T

 

[Tifabelle]

No, but then again Zack wasn't there to witness it. They did show her at the bottom of the steps saying she hated shinra and soldier, etc.

 

[Roger]

Tifa doesn't have cutscene model in CC, Tifa's father and Zangan aren't in the game at all and her voice actor wasn't called in for CC so yeah, they scrapped that and just have Zack find her on the floor.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

she doesnt have much of a storyline outside of cloud

hell nomura even says he uses tifa as a "window" to cloud who isn't very open so she's his mouthpiece too
they dont use her character for much outside of how it can benefit cloud

i do not find her particularly interesting but that's just like, my opinion man

I dunno wtf you're talking about and I don't think Nomura's statement means what you think it means. EVERY character serves a function within a story, they are not independent agents. They all exist in relation to the protagonist. And most characters (especially important ones), if you want to write a halfway decent story, must serve as some sort of window to the main character because the protagonist' story IS the one followed. And they all have to do this while maintaining their own identity within the story.
That's basic storytelling.

What would be a storyline outside Cloud & how does Tifa not have one?
What's that shit about running her own business and a terrorist group, and wanting to avenge her family and hometown?

@ window: I don't recall this particular statement, but I'm beyond certain that he is referring to the fact that as Cloud doesn't speak and emote well, we get to know what's going through his mind through the characters around him, and who better to do this that the one he is closest to? Tifa.

This is pretty much the case in any story.

they give the slightest insight into tifa's feelings before shifting focus to how it affects cloud/her relationship with cloud/cloud cloud cloud its dumb

WUT? Receipts.

 

[Ryushikaze]

On the subject of 'All Tifa does is focus on Cloud and worry about him and do things for him' Blah blah, one can make the case that that's exactly what Fangu does regarding Vanille.

She breaks her focus, for Vanille. She fights the L'cie, for Vanille. She turns into Ragnarok, For Vanille. She stops being Ragnarok, for Vanille. The first thing she does upon being reunited with Vanille is check on her.

Is this a very flawed, caricatured look at her character that focuses overmuch on one aspect of her personality and conflates it to the totality of that personality?

Yes.
And that's my point. Tifa has always focused on other people, not just Cloud. She is not solely focused on Cloud during the Compilation, and she was always thinking of others and pepping people up in the OG. Yes, she's Cloud's crutch, but to say that's all she is, even in the compilation, is really a superficial look at her as an overall character.

 

[Flintlock]

Her own personal dilemma and how she feels about Shinra and what she's done to get revenge on them is a HUGE part of her character. I don't know how you could miss that.

i missed it because they mention it like a passing sentence and then toss it away in favor of focusing on cloud's bullshit

...Not really.

Here are all the lines I could find in the original game where Tifa mentions Shinra:

1. [Speaking about the ID card scanner on the train] "Which Shinra is very proud of."

2. "Papa… Sephiroth!? Sephiroth did this to you didn't he!? Sephiroth…SOLDIER… Mako Reactors… Shinra… Everything! I hate them all!" (used twice)

3. "Did you say the Shinra!? What are they up to!? Talk! If you [Don Corneo] don't tell us… I'll smash them."

4. "How do we get to the Shinra building?"

5. "Then what? Does that mean that the Promised Land really exist and that Sephiroth's here to save it from Shinra?"

6. "The villagers used to call it Shinra mansion."

7. "Don't blame yourself [Barret]. We were all fooled by the promises Shinra made back then."

8. "Yeah, that's right. He [Dyne] was deceived by the Shinra, too. He'll probably join us to fight against the Shinra."

Number 2 is the only one where she really reveals her hatred of Shinra, so I can completely understand Zee's feeling that it was only mentioned in passing and then forgotten about. It comes up in 7 and 8 as well, but not particularly strongly. In fact, there's one part of the game where she questions whether AVALANCHE are to blame for the deaths in Sector 7, and it falls to Barret to remind her that it's the Shinra's fault. Also, as far as I can tell, she doesn't ever directly mention "what she's done to get revenge" on Shinra.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

Ryu, let me marry your post.

 

[Max Payne]

Number 2 is the only one where she really reveals her hatred of Shinra, so I can completely understand Zee's feeling that it was only mentioned in passing and then forgotten about.

So all of those things are just passing commentary? Really?

Also, as far as I can tell, she doesn't ever directly mention "what she's done to get revenge" on Shinra

Because that was about Case of Tifa.

 

[Celes Chere]

crisis core thought her dressing up as a sexy cowgirl for cloud took priority over expanding her feelings about shinra

zee you know I love you but
WHAT
I do not think they focused on Tifa's sexy outfit most of all? Lol, I mean she was wearing it but no one mentioned anything about it AT ALL in the game not even Zack seemed to give a shit about what she was wearing in fact he seemed to think she was a really weird person. Crisis Core wasn't about Tifa though, it was about Zack most of all and he didn't have a huge connection to Tifa so we only got to see a glimpse of her in that game.

I think they show that Tifa is really in love with Cloud and dedicated to him, that doesn't mean she has no spine! I really adore that type of character, which is why I love girls like Rosa and Garnet and Yuna so much. Even though they really do give all of their heart and soul to a guy, they still have back bone. They still fight and stick up for their friends and can exist ENTIRELY on their own. Imo, Tifa had every right to 'moan' about Cloud's stupid ass issues. Cloud was being a massive baby that left her behind a lot of the time. She still supported him and tried to knock sense into him, god forbid she actually get upset once in awhile, Kreisst.
Tifa's pretty introverted, but she's really sweet and kind hearted and can really let you have it when it comes down to it. I would say she has plenty of 'swag' herself.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Here are all the lines I could find in the original game where Tifa mentions Shinra:


Number 2 is the only one where she really reveals her hatred of Shinra, so I can completely understand Zee's feeling that it was only mentioned in passing and then forgotten about. It comes up in 7 and 8 as well, but not particularly strongly. In fact, there's one part of the game where she questions whether AVALANCHE are to blame for the deaths in Sector 7, and it falls to Barret to remind her that it's the Shinra's fault. Also, as far as I can tell, she doesn't ever directly mention "what she's done to get revenge" on Shinra.

I think you're being a bit literal there, since she has a few lines against them that don't mention them by name.
Plus, it ignores the repitition of 2 in the OG, in various Compilation products (LO, BC and CC all have variations on it) and Tifa explicitly stating her sentiments about ShinRa in CoT.

 

[Tennyo]

She breaks her focus, for Vanille. She fights the L'cie, for Vanille. She turns into Ragnarok, For Vanille. She stops being Ragnarok, for Vanille. The first thing she does upon being reunited with Vanille is check on her.

Lesbians vs het couple

In my opinion that's probably what makes all the difference. A woman being devoted to another woman doesn't set off the feminism alarms like a woman being devoted to a man does.

In fact, I actually had never thought about how similar Fang is with Tifa in regards to the one that they love until this very moment. And quite honestly, I do admit that I was blinded by the fact that the one Fang loves just happens to be another woman.

 

[Max Payne]

Lesbians vs het couple

In my opinion that's probably what makes all the difference. A woman being devoted to another woman doesn't set off the feminism alarms like a woman being devoted to a man does.

In fact, I actually had never thought about how similar Fang is with Tifa in regards to the one that they love until this very moment. And quite honestly, I do admit that I was blinded by the fact that the one Fang loves just happens to be another woman.

You really don't want to open that box

nothing good will come out of it imo

 

[Flintlock]

I think you're being a bit literal there, since she has a few lines against them that don't mention them by name.
Plus, it ignores the repitition of 2 in the OG, in various Compilation products (LO, BC and CC all have variations on it) and Tifa explicitly stating her sentiments about ShinRa in CoT.

It's fair enough to say it was literal. But I didn't ignore the repetition of 2 - I wrote that it gets used twice. I also made it clear I was only looking at the original game. That's what these polls were supposed to be about, after all.

 

[Zee]

heavy risk, disliking tifa on tls

BUT THE CRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIES

 

[Max Payne]

heavy risk, disliking tifa on tls

BUT THE CRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIES

It's not about disliking Tifa though.

 

[Tennyo]

You really don't want to open that box

nothing good will come out of it imo

I'm not saying it's a bad thing.

In fact, thinking of Fang's devotion to Vanille in the same way that I would think of Tifa's devotion to Cloud just makes Fang and Vanille's relationship seem all the more sweeter.

I do think some people have missed this point, though.

 

[Zee]

It's not about disliking Tifa though.

we had an entire thread about why tifa's arc sucks on this forum the fact that people are debating against me now for saying the same thing i did then is kind of funny

and by funny i mean i'm leaving the thread