Cloud vs Sephiroth

EbonGale

the bomb in the piano
AKA
SableWind
While deftly skirting around the debate, I loved that detail - Cloud grabbing the Masamune to prevent it from going through his...well, head. Presence of mind, battle instincts, whatever you wanna call it, that move saved Cloud's life.

It was a pretty badass scene, wasn't it? On a side note, the CG/animation team or whatever really outdid themselves on Cloud's expressions throughout the entirety of him getting fucked up.

Since it appears that Mako and I have reached some level of mutual understanding, I don't really know what to do with myself.

... Guess I'll just go lurk around for a while, before I pop my head up and start something somewhere else... :awesome:
 

cloudywolf17

Lv. 1 Adventurer
Lol, I can't really say with any great confidence that any of the big SOLDIER characters are really bound by any sort of physiology, but I know what you mean. All in all, characters like Zack, Sephiroth, Cloud, seemingly ignore anything really concerning human physiology at any point in time when it suits the plot point, but I guess that's really just breaking the fourth wall. I just don't see a part in the fight where Sephiroth isn't really screwing around (until he starts losing, that is).

Yes, I agree that one of his goals is to kill Cloud, but I don't think it's really his end-all be-all point that he's trying to prove here. Again, at the end of the day, Sephiroth is going to be sure that Cloud's dead, but I believe that Sephiroth's ultimate goal is to make Cloud understand his superiority. The "I am above you" mentality that is so very much apart of his mindset, which I imagine he enjoys thinking when he's looking down atop Cloud from his place in the sky.

In the end, Sephiroth's out to prove a point. Death is death, yes, but I argue that he wants more than that at the end of the day instead of just killing Cloud. If he didn't, he would've ended it quicker instead of taking the time to systematically crush him. You could say he became more serious when he sprouts his wing, but really? He's still just screwing around until he's fully expressed his superiority. Yes, he puts the hurt down with mortal blows that will eventually result in the death of Cloud, which again, he wants, but its just not Sephiroth's main concern here.

I don't know if there's actually any real sort of disagreement going on here, but I think the way that Sephiroth goes about it says something about how little he's actually taking the fight seriously. Sephiroth has no real concern for the lives of others, so why should he take the fight seriously when he knows (or thinks he knows, rather) that he's going to win?
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
I just want to say that Sephiroth proving his superiority, making Cloud suffer, and Cloud's suffering, and trying to kill him are not mutually exclusive.

All of what you just said is true. But that doesn't mean he also isn't trying to kill Cloud painfully either. He's doing all that at once. It's happening all at the same time.

But I guess we do agree more or less :monster:
 
While deftly skirting around the debate, I loved that detail - Cloud grabbing the Masamune to prevent it from going through his...well, head. Presence of mind, battle instincts, whatever you wanna call it, that move saved Cloud's life.

I don't think Cloud trying to grab the Masamune saved his life. The sword is through his leg on three places, the only way to move the sword is to move his whole leg somehow. Although he may have been saved by leaning his head back or something. The grabbing part was just instinct though and it probably didn't help at all.

You know what would have totally ruined Cloud's day? If Sephiroth had cut off any of Cloud's thumbs. Now that would have been a real party breaker.
 

cloudywolf17

Lv. 1 Adventurer
In the end they aren't mutually exclusive, I was just trying to point out which one's more important to him I guess. :bmonster: But me and black cookie monster, we're cool.
 

Tiefenrausch

Solitary Dancer
The sword is through his leg on three places, the only way to move the sword is to move his whole leg somehow.
You know what would have totally ruined Cloud's day? If Sephiroth had cut off any of Cloud's thumbs. Now that would have been a real party breaker.
Thankfully Sephiroth was as kind and helped Cloud removing the sword.

And a big OUCH @ cutting off thumbs.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
In the end they aren't mutually exclusive, I was just trying to point out which one's more important to him I guess. :bmonster: But me and black cookie monster, we're cool.

They aren't? You don't think you can savor your victim/opponent's agony while killing them, while also making said act of killing them as painful and humiliating as possible?

And glad you found a smiley you liked :monster:
 

cloudywolf17

Lv. 1 Adventurer
They aren't? You don't think you can savor your victim/opponent's agony while killing them, while also making said act of killing them as painful and humiliating as possible?

And glad you found a smiley you liked :monster:

Lol, I don't really know where we're really disagreeing anymore. I thought that when I said:
"Yes, I agree that one of his goals is to kill Cloud, but I don't think it's really his end-all be-all point that he's trying to prove here. Again, at the end of the day, Sephiroth is going to be sure that Cloud's dead, but I believe that Sephiroth's ultimate goal is to make Cloud understand his superiority."

that I was being clear in regards to Sephiroth killing two birds with one masamune. Like when I said his ultimate goal was about proving superiority, I didn't say it was his only goal. I didn't mean to sound as though I thought he wasn't multitasking here, or that he wasn't accomplishing both.

What exactly aren't we overlapping on here? Does my friend the black cookie monster know? :bmonster: He won't say.
 

Lord Noctis

Harbinger of Darkness
AKA
Caius Ballad
Lol, I can't really say with any great confidence that any of the big SOLDIER characters are really bound by any sort of physiology, but I know what you mean. All in all, characters like Zack, Sephiroth, Cloud, seemingly ignore anything really concerning human physiology at any point in time when it suits the plot point, but I guess that's really just breaking the fourth wall. I just don't see a part in the fight where Sephiroth isn't really screwing around (until he starts losing, that is).

Yes, I agree that one of his goals is to kill Cloud, but I don't think it's really his end-all be-all point that he's trying to prove here. Again, at the end of the day, Sephiroth is going to be sure that Cloud's dead, but I believe that Sephiroth's ultimate goal is to make Cloud understand his superiority. The "I am above you" mentality that is so very much apart of his mindset, which I imagine he enjoys thinking when he's looking down atop Cloud from his place in the sky.

In the end, Sephiroth's out to prove a point. Death is death, yes, but I argue that he wants more than that at the end of the day instead of just killing Cloud. If he didn't, he would've ended it quicker instead of taking the time to systematically crush him. You could say he became more serious when he sprouts his wing, but really? He's still just screwing around until he's fully expressed his superiority. Yes, he puts the hurt down with mortal blows that will eventually result in the death of Cloud, which again, he wants, but its just not Sephiroth's main concern here.

I don't know if there's actually any real sort of disagreement going on here, but I think the way that Sephiroth goes about it says something about how little he's actually taking the fight seriously. Sephiroth has no real concern for the lives of others, so why should he take the fight seriously when he knows (or thinks he knows, rather) that he's going to win?

Thank you for saying this! I was going to say something similiar, but now I don't have to. YAY!.
 

Tennyo

Higher Further Faster
I just want to say that Sephiroth proving his superiority, making Cloud suffer, and Cloud's suffering, and trying to kill him are not mutually exclusive.

All of what you just said is true. But that doesn't mean he also isn't trying to kill Cloud painfully either. He's doing all that at once. It's happening all at the same time.

But I guess we do agree more or less :monster:

Yes this is what I was trying to explain to you last night! Sephiroth wants Cloud dead, he's just not being quick about it.

SAVOR THE COOKIE! :wacky:
 

Max Payne

Banned
AKA
Leon S. Kennedy,Terry Bogard, The Dark Knight, Dacon, John Marston, Teal'c
I don't see how anyone can argue that he was "playing around" for the entire bloody fight.

I just don't. All it would have take was Cloud taking that sword in the face instead of just his leg and that would have been it for him.

All of those wounds were pretty fatal save the slashing of his joints(which should have rendered him incapable of lifting that sword). The only reason Cloud won was the fact that these people are capable of using their life energy to push themselves past their limits, to move their bodies when it should be impossible for them. They clearly have physiological limits and adhere to them, but they also have the ability to utilize the energies inside them, to help them fight through their handicaps.

Sephiroth clearly was taking the fight seriously, since he went through the trouble of disabling his enemy before going in for the kill. With his body beaten, slashed to ribbons, and rife with fatigue, Sephiroth had done enough to ensure a victory. When Sephiroth rushed Cloud while he was on his knees, he was obviously going in for the kill. Cloud had no defense, hell he wasn't even prepared to strike back.

Sure, he had a little fun with Cloud in the process, but in no way does that entail him not taking the fight seriously. That would make Sephiroth out to be a massive idiot, and he's supposed to be intelligent.

But meh, whatever people.
 
Last edited:

Tennyo

Higher Further Faster
Well yeah, after he sprouted his wing is when, I believe, he started getting to the point of wrapping things up. He pulled out a move to try to render Cloud unable to fight, made a statement of taking away everything he cherished torment him, then went into a dive for the kill.
 

Mariketsu

I Am the Darkness, I'm the Monster
AKA
Razael
That video was so damn funneh! ^ no joke it was just the most hilarious thing EVAR cuz the song went so well right when Sephy was jabbin at Cloud with Masamune! I had that silly theme stuck in my head all night AHAHA! I faved teh video on youtube! XD

+ Angel-Winged Demon +
 

BWAngel

Rebel without a Cause!!!
I found it funny that Sephiroth was just poking with a fucking sword with no shiny magic or anything except a wing, but Cloud, without a wing, whooped his ass with six swords powered with magic.
 

Dark and Divine

Pro Adventurer
AKA
D&D
I found it funny that Sephiroth was just poking with a fucking sword with no shiny magic or anything except a wing, but Cloud, without a wing, whooped his ass with six swords powered with magic.

Cloud wasn't exactly using magic. It was his spirit energy.

As for Sephiroth. he didn't need to use magic or any of his special abilities. He already was kicking ass by just using his swordmanship.
 

BOEG

Lv. 25 Adventurer
Can anyone tell me where this "Spirit Energy" term was coined in regard to Final Fantasy VII? I've seen it pop up in like three different forums now, and it's a logical explanation, but for lack of a better term it just makes FFVII sound like fucking Dragonball Z.

This, paired with the constant debate over Cloud and Sephiroth/Zack/Genesis/the neighbor's cat's power levels, it just leaves a poor taste in my mouth.
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
Coined? Well Bugenhagen says it in his Planet Life demonstration. But yes we use in relation to limit breaks because...well, what else would it be?
 

BOEG

Lv. 25 Adventurer
I don't know, it just seems a little too cliche'd to me. It doesn't help the constant comparisons between FFVII and DBZ. No love lost for either series, but the next time I have to hear someone tell me "Cloud is t3h uber Super saiya-jin!" or "Sephy went Kaioken!" I'm going to rip their larynx out through their urethra and castrate them with it.
 

Cthulhu

Administrator
AKA
Yop
WHAT DOES THE SCOUTER SAY ABOUT HIS POWER LEVEL?

IT'S OVER NINE THOUSAAAND! :wacky:
 

NeoSOLDIERJ895

SOLDIER 3rd Class
*Shudders* that's scary, when sephiroth assaults cloud if you look closely Sephy stabs cloud through his right foot and knee and I dislocated my right knee 5 weeks ago (no lie) otherwise 5star scene the greatest fight scene in the history of fight scenes (again, no lie!!!)
 

Channy

Bad Habit
AKA
Ruby Rose, Lucy
I dislocate my knees all the time. I fail to see the comparison other than we're not Super Saiyans and we can't keep fighting and use our Kamehameha Limit Breaks to win a fight. :monster:
 
Top Bottom