ForceStealer
Double Growth
My favorite bit of that is always Barret drunkenly giving instructions to the people building the bar while Cloud follows him and quietly corrects the instructions 
Faith v. 3.0 (Cloti Club)
- Thread starter Tennyo
- Start date
Master Bates
Do you enjoy your life?
- AKA
- Mr. Koiwai
Yes, totally. The entire duration of them rebuilding the bar is my absolute favorite sequence in CoT. My memories are a little jumbled and hazy, but I believe it was also during those parts when they were sleeping on the floor (or was it tables?) of the unfinished Seventh Heaven because they had nowhere to go. I really liked that part for some reason. Here are a bunch of people who had survived staring death in the face, just trying to move on and survive however they can, and finding little joys in little humanizing moments.
Yumelinh
Pro Adventurer
I love this, too! If there's one thing I'll always be mulling over is that we focus so much on the conflict part of their relationship ( which is understandable since it was the focus in AC/C) that we tend to forget their good moments together before Cloud gets consumed by his guilt. They were so domestic and Cloud was so much more forward about his feelings there, too.
I like to believe that their lives got back to something more like this once that AC/C conflict was over.
RhinoKart
Pro Adventurer
One of the reasons I love the Cloti moments in Chapter 3 of remake so much is because we get to see happy and flirty Cloti. AC/C gave us an entire movie of serious Cloti who also dramatically save each other, same with CC (and every other portrayal of Neibelheim), and remake gave us so many of those moments too. Don't get me wrong, I am so here for serious/emotional/heroic Cloti, but having those few scenes of happy and flirty Cloti, where they could just be portrayed as having a fun and developing relationship made me giddy.
Yeah Elmyra comes off as pretty spiteful here. I get it, her daughter is dead and I guess she blames Cloud to a certain extent, but it just feels so petty. Like he clearly is in pain over Aerith's death too, but you're going to make him feel as guilty as possible about it? Really?
Too bad Aerith couldn't have used her lifestream projection powers to go talk to her mom about how this wasn't Cloud's fault.
Eerie
Fire and Blood
As an aside note, I'm pretty happy with the French cast. Cloud's "Tifa" are pretty soft, Tifa's voice is really beautiful, and I get closer translations to JP to boot lol. Like "I hate them all!" kudos to Tifa's VA, it was delivered really well, it was a powerful moment. Yeah I'm 3h20 into that FFVIIR movie, my god it's SO LONG.
Also, Aerith's "but she's important to you, right?" when she convinces him to go after her hit right in the feels too.
Also, Aerith's "but she's important to you, right?" when she convinces him to go after her hit right in the feels too.
i've been a long time lurker of the cloti thread but i felt like i had to make an account to respond here lol. aerith's mom can feel how she wants to feel about her death. even if it wasn't cloud's fault, it's not "petty" for someone to grieve for their daughter in their own way. like ya'll really gonna call a woman petty because she isn't over the death of her daughter?
ForceStealer
Double Growth
I think it was more hiring Cloud specifically to keep taking flowers there rather than someone who wasn't already guilty about it. Also I assume they're being facetious with "petty."
I admit I never thought about it. But it was a little thoughtless now that I have, haha.
RhinoKart
Pro Adventurer
Welcome! Yes you are right, I'm not blaming her for not being over the death of her daughter. Seriously I don't expect her to ever get over the loss of a child, and remake added some heart crushing dialogue from her about not knowing how she'd ever be able to deal with losing Aerith. I feel for her, I really really do.
But I think hiring Cloud to deliver flowers to Aerith's grave is spiteful (perhaps my choice of words in petty was a bad one). Given that Cloud is suffering from Aerith's death too, that it wasn't his fault, and that he killed the person who's fault it was, Elmyra reopening the wounds for him feels like an unneeded hurtful act. As you point out, it is a perfectly relatable act, she is in pain and she blames him, but in my opinion it is needlessly hurtful and doesn't serve to help anyone.
I don't believe Elmyra will feel better for having made Cloud hurt, and it certainly won't bring her daughter back. It just serves to keep the pain of Aerith's death around, and to make sure Cloud is aware that Aerith's family blames him for her fate.
......Having jsut written that giant paragraph, it now occurs to me that maybe Elmyra sent Cloud because she wanted the flowers delivered by someone who could share in her crushing grief. In which case my entire interpretation of that event and my characterization of Elmyra has been wrong up until now.....
Graymouse
Pro Adventurer
It could be looked at both ways in all honestly. I think it could be a way that Elmyra is trying to come to terms with her daughters circumstances.
Could you imagine coming back to Midgar after you defeated Sephiroth to tell Aerith's mother why her daughter didn't come home? It had to be devastating for the gang to try to explain that. Not just Cloud felt the pain of that loss. When Aerith died it left a huge hole in everyone heart.
I will say that it is in my opinion a poor choice to have Cloud delivery those flowers. Why couldn't Elmyra do it? A part of moving on is being able to accept your loss and move on with your life. When Elmyra asked Cloud to do that, Of course he wouldn't refuse to do so. That is just how Cloud is. Never refuse a delivery. However, at the same time Elmyra is pouring salt into an already deep wound in Clouds heart. That hasn't had time to heal yet. l don't know if was intentional or not but I can understand both sides.
Could you imagine coming back to Midgar after you defeated Sephiroth to tell Aerith's mother why her daughter didn't come home? It had to be devastating for the gang to try to explain that. Not just Cloud felt the pain of that loss. When Aerith died it left a huge hole in everyone heart.
I will say that it is in my opinion a poor choice to have Cloud delivery those flowers. Why couldn't Elmyra do it? A part of moving on is being able to accept your loss and move on with your life. When Elmyra asked Cloud to do that, Of course he wouldn't refuse to do so. That is just how Cloud is. Never refuse a delivery. However, at the same time Elmyra is pouring salt into an already deep wound in Clouds heart. That hasn't had time to heal yet. l don't know if was intentional or not but I can understand both sides.
Eerie
Fire and Blood
It's hard to tell, I usually am torn between the two interpretations... with Remake now we are reminded of how much Elmyra really, really didn't like Cloud so it may be a bit both. She wants him to be reminded of Aerith's death (because she sees him and his family happily living in Edge while Aerith is dead), but she also knows that he will understand her pain.
Graymouse
Pro Adventurer
Now that I think about it, I am pretty sure that is why Tifa asked Cloud to take her with him each time he goes to the Church to place flowers there. So, that Tifa can help bare the weight and make sure Cloud doesn't fall back into his deep sense of guilt.
Tifa is such a sweetheart!
Tifa is such a sweetheart!
RhinoKart
Pro Adventurer
The reason I've always believed it to be her making a dig at Cloud is because of how I interpreted her character in the OG. She tells him to leave when he first meets Aerith, who is 21 at this point in time, more than old enough to decide who she should spend her time with. That doesn't mean I don't understand Elmyra's thinking, she doesn't want Aerith to get hurt, but she is treating Aerith like she is still a child, not a grown women.
Then when she lectures Barret (which I want to say I actually totally agreed with) about leaving Marlene, but these are people she has just met, and who are offering to go save her daughter, but she can't resist telling him that he is a bad father.
I took those scenes and thought of Elmyra as seeing the world very black and white, and that she knows best. So the fact her daughter ends up dead after running off with that boy she told to leave earlier, it seemed like sending Cloud to deliver the flowers was her trying to rub in his face that she sees events as Aerith still being alive if it weren't for Cloud.
Edited because I'm now way off topic in the Cloti club: Yes Greymouse, Tifa's ability to provide support for Cloud in small ways is just a fantastic part of their relationship!
Then when she lectures Barret (which I want to say I actually totally agreed with) about leaving Marlene, but these are people she has just met, and who are offering to go save her daughter, but she can't resist telling him that he is a bad father.
I took those scenes and thought of Elmyra as seeing the world very black and white, and that she knows best. So the fact her daughter ends up dead after running off with that boy she told to leave earlier, it seemed like sending Cloud to deliver the flowers was her trying to rub in his face that she sees events as Aerith still being alive if it weren't for Cloud.
Edited because I'm now way off topic in the Cloti club: Yes Greymouse, Tifa's ability to provide support for Cloud in small ways is just a fantastic part of their relationship!
Edley
Pray for Sound
- AKA
- Issac Dian, Dudley, Chev Chelios
Yeah, I was being a bit hyperbolic. The delivery is Nojima's narrative device to push us to guilt!Cloud. It's a bit hamfisted, but its fine. Elmyra wasn't on their journey, but she doesn't hate Cloud.
Graymouse
Pro Adventurer
Tifa is Cloud's childhood friend, Sister, Mother, and his only family. The person who needs her the most is Cloud. Thanks to Tifa, Cloud was able to not be lonely, to endure, and want to be a better person.
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RhinoKart
Pro Adventurer
This actually reminds me of a scene that stood out to me in remake. When they go back to the Don's mansion in chapter 14 and run into Leslie, Cloud pulls his sword, and only stops threatening Leslie when he (Leslie) starts talking to Tifa. Tifa then walks up and gently places a hand on Cloud's shoulder.
It stood out to me as a call back to Jonny's scene in Chapter 3 where Cloud is all ready to kill Joneey, but Tifa grabs Cloud's arm to stop him. Like in that moment with Leslie she touches cloud to grounding him. A simple "hey I'm here, we're not in killer mode right now, everything is okay".
That or the scene is just exposition and means nothing, but I'm going to keep this as my head canon anyways.
Graymouse
Pro Adventurer
It does seem that only TIfa can calm Cloud down when he is in fight and protect mode. I think there might be another scene in the Remake where TIfa did this as well. Although I could be misremembering. I feel that Cloud would fight the entire Shinra army it meant keeping her safe.
Shadowfox
You look like you need a monkey
There are a lot of soft touches between Cloud and Tifa in the Remake. Cloud does it a lot to reassure and comfort Tifa, and to reassure himself that she's okay. Tifa's are similar, but with the added effect of calming him down when he gets too intense.
She touched him a couple of times in Aerith's house, after the Sector 7 plate fell. I remember one where she did it to stop him from pressing Elmyra about Aerith's abduction. (Personally, I got the feeling that Tifa likely saw that Elmyra was getting more and more upset and was like 2 seconds away from snapping and telling them to gtfo. Giving Elmyra time to calm down and think on it allowed her to decide to tell the trio about Aerith.)
She touched him a couple of times in Aerith's house, after the Sector 7 plate fell. I remember one where she did it to stop him from pressing Elmyra about Aerith's abduction. (Personally, I got the feeling that Tifa likely saw that Elmyra was getting more and more upset and was like 2 seconds away from snapping and telling them to gtfo. Giving Elmyra time to calm down and think on it allowed her to decide to tell the trio about Aerith.)
Eerie
Fire and Blood
Don't forget that Aerith also did, in his fight against Reno - she protected Reno in the church, the first time they meet him.
However, it is also true that Cloud and Tifa touch each other, a lot. Or even manage to understand each other without even talking, with just the eyes and a nod.
As I'm watching the French movie of FFVIIR, I want to warn about Aerith's line "follow your heart" too, because in French it's "do what you have to do". I think the guy was on an Aerith run when that happened though, I can't say for sure what happens in a Tifa run, because even if he had Tifa scene in ch14, I could have sworn he'd get Aerith (he skipped Tifa's quests and did Aerith's (even though he cut them he still had Aerith's best dress), woke up Aerith first in the sewer).
Also the ch14 scene in French is very sweet. At the end, Cloud tells her "don't say that!" when Tifa says it's useless to cry, which sounds definitely more comforting than the EN counterpart (I think the tone is slightly less abrasive too? Cloud's voice is good there). I think Tifa's VA delivered it less well than in EN and JP though. Or maybe it's because I was still taken aback because he had this scene when I was sure he'd get Aerith's
Edit: oh also did any of you talk to Andy after the plate fell? Cause you can, and in French he asks Cloud "did you find what you lost?", Cloud (with Tifa next to him) says "Yes" and Andy goes "Good. Take care of it now", which made me giggle.
edit2: the EN is close to JP for “follow your heart!” So I guess it’s valid to use ^^
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ForceStealer
Double Growth
Yeah, that's the same in English.
Eerie
Fire and Blood
Yeah I had missed that, not sure if I missed that moment completely or if it's because they didn't get through sector 6 again (they chose the shortcut).
Edit: oh yeah, when she saves him after the Rufus fight, Tifa says in French: "C'est la honte là. C'est toi le héros" which made me laugh ("what a disgrace. It's you who's the hero"), with the light emphasis on "toi/you". What a way to support him Tifa
Edit: oh yeah, when she saves him after the Rufus fight, Tifa says in French: "C'est la honte là. C'est toi le héros" which made me laugh ("what a disgrace. It's you who's the hero"), with the light emphasis on "toi/you". What a way to support him Tifa
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