FFVII CHARACTER SMACKDOWN - The Neutrals Championship

Joe

I KEEP MY IDEALS
AKA
Joe, Arcana
I think I speak for everyone here when I say we endeavour to remain respectful and considerate to all on this board regardless of the subject matter. Thank you everyone for your continued decency. I believe any oversights in this regard are simply that: oversights. Those of us lucky enough not to have an intimate understanding of such things will undoubtedly make occasional blunders, but it is how we conduct ourselves after that defines us. Proud of you all. ^_^

As a side-note, nothing related to this mishandling will reflect in my judging.
 
AKA
Fancy
Yeah that’s definitely my bad. I kept meaning to put a disclaimer at the end of a post noting that this wasn’t how I really felt in he matter and am just getting caught up in the heat of debate.

i feel like a shit now
^I was ninja’d by Joe (:watchingu:), but right, what he said. We have our occasional slip ups eh. Let’s continue to be awesome and kick the ass and the things and stuff. :)

Speaking of which... you lot have about 6 and a half hours left to do just that. :mon:
 
AKA
Fancy

DON’T BE RUSHIN’ TO TYPE NOW CUZ IT’S OVER!

This marks the end of round 1-4!

Spectators (and the audience!*) have 24 hours to cast their votes (either by posting in this thread or messaging me privately) for the champion that they have been swayed to stand behind. Our esteemed spectators this round are...



Fancy
Joe
solo player sab

At this time, spectators and audience members are allowed to post their thoughts on the match. Players are NOT ALLOWED to counter any of these comments with new arguments or to continue ‘battling’ in general. Any attempt to do so will count as an automatic loss for your team. Players are free, however, to pay compliments to your opponents and such. ^^

Players!

If you’d like to opt out of participating in the next round, tell me so now.. Otherwise, I’m going to assume you’re still playing and you’re going to be reshuffled into a new team.

In General

If anyone (players, spectators, audience, anyone) has any feedback, questions, or concerns regarding the rules, please post that in the master thread here. It’ll be easier for me to keep track of/find your feedback this way for future reference. Thank you!

Any non-participant who’d like to be shuffled into a team, please say so now.




 
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Roger

Novice DM
AKA
Minato
^Speaking of suicide.

I’ve just gone through the posts, and I kindly ask that players please try and refrain from bringing up the subject matter. I ask that players especially refrain from suggesting in any way, shape, or form that Gillian’s being suicidal is a reflection of weak character. It’s a symptom of a mental illness, not one’s ‘weak will’. :)
I don't think Crisis Core was saying Gillian was mentally ill so much as that seeing the product of her old work coming back to kill everyone she has come to know over the past 20 years, as well as be used to enslave the minds of an army of SOLDIERs, seeing Genesis and Angeal grow up to discover what she had done and deciding it makes them cursed monsters, Genesis keeping her alive so the knowledge she possesses might serve his evil purposes, Angeal coming to visit but not being willing to either take her to safety nor stopping Genesis from his killing as yet and finally the potential for herself being turned into a monster and unleashed on innocent victims given the Jenova cells she possesses all made her feel death was the only way out of a nightmare. She may have realised that Shin-Ra was definitely gonna kill her to silence her anyway and that Zack the Puppy didn't yet realise what his "rescue" might ultimately entail and wanted to at least spare someone the kind of guilt she was dealing with.

I've approached these arguments with a "all's fair in love and war" mindset given that, especially with the Neutrals, there are very little facts known about their characters so we gotta play the hand we are dealt to the fullest, I apologise for the mishandling and hope it's understood it doesn't reflect anyone's views on suicide.
 
AKA
Fancy
^Speaking of suicide.

I’ve just gone through the posts, and I kindly ask that players please try and refrain from bringing up the subject matter. I ask that players especially refrain from suggesting in any way, shape, or form that Gillian’s being suicidal is a reflection of weak character. It’s a symptom of a mental illness, not one’s ‘weak will’. :)
I don't think Crisis Core was saying Gillian was mentally ill so much as that seeing the product of her old work coming back to kill everyone she has come to know over the past 20 years, as well as be used to enslave the minds of an army of SOLDIERs, seeing Genesis and Angeal grow up to discover what she had done and deciding it makes them cursed monsters, Genesis keeping her alive so the knowledge she possesses might serve his evil purposes, Angeal coming to visit but not being willing to either take her to safety nor stopping Genesis from his killing as yet and finally the potential for herself being turned into a monster and unleashed on innocent victims given the Jenova cells she possesses all made her feel death was the only way out of a nightmare. She may have realised that Shin-Ra was definitely gonna kill her to silence her anyway and that Zack the Puppy didn't yet realise what his "rescue" might ultimately entail and wanted to at least spare someone the kind of guilt she was dealing with.
That's fair! I understand that, in Gillian's case, she wasn't necessarily driven to take her life because she felt so low in spirit, but because it was a better alternative to dealing with Shinra. I mentioned the whole bit about 'the act' not being a reflection of a weak character because given the language usage surrounding the topic, I thought it might've been triggering/upsetting to some readers. I don't honestly believe that anyone on this board thinks that way, but I think things sorta got 'lost in translation' so to speak?

I've approached these arguments with a "all's fair in love and war" mindset given that, especially with the Neutrals, there are very little facts known about their characters so we gotta play the hand we are dealt to the fullest, I apologise for the mishandling and hope it's understood it doesn't reflect anyone's views on suicide.
Right, I hear you. And that sentiment still stands! This was something of a tricky case, methinks and only felt like I needed to step in because, again, I thought the language use would prove triggering for some users. Thanks for all you've contributed so far, dear! Look forward to seeing some more asskicking from you in the future. :mon:
 

Channy

Bad Habit
AKA
Ruby Rose, Lucy
Since the match still being deliberated can I just forfeit the match because I was a ginormous ass about it? :monster:

I completely overlooked that this match was outside the 10 or so of us - that anyone on the forum could be reading and there are bound to be some people struggling with those feelings, whether themselves or friends or family. I got caught up in the competition like I always do, completely ignoring repercussions, just like always.

I was a douchecanoe in this match not thinking my words through. And I sincerely apologize to my team mates, my opponents, the spectators both in the thread and off. I can only hope that you&#8217;ll forgive me and not assume that this is how I really think of suicide or mental illness. You are all my lovelies and I don&#8217;t want to lose any of you as friends. <3
 
AKA
Fancy
^Aw, I hear ya hunny bun. Like I said, I honestly don&#8217;t think that you feel that way and I absolutely believe you when you say you were caught up in the game. I don't think forfeiting is necessary! As a spectator myself, I planned on just discounting those arguments. :) It was a slip in judgement but it's passed now, eh? We all say shit in the moment that we may wanna take back later on. Goodness knows I've taken my fair share of jokes/banter too far HAHAHAHAHA


We'll do better from now on. :properhug:
 
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AKA
Fancy
^Yes :P

Also

There has to be a winner in order for the brackets to work. :P Either that or I can abandon the brackets altogether, but I rather like using the tool. :awesome:

I personally see no problem with voting as there were other things to consider. Note that the way I'm choosing the vote isn't neccesarily the way other folks are voting.
 
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Channy

Bad Habit
AKA
Ruby Rose, Lucy
I&#8217;m good with either way but I still feel like an ass and have no problem forfeiting the match.

Gillian&#8217;s a slag. :monster:

There, I continued to debate after the debate was over. Our team loses :wacky:
 

Joe

I KEEP MY IDEALS
AKA
Joe, Arcana
I gotta keep this pretty brief as I'm in the midst of a long shift at work (and a busy one) but wanted you guys to see how I voted! As before I used the same method to determine a winner. Not a whole lot of memes and humour spliced in here so it was very formulaic.

Gillian

While both combatants seem to lack much experience outside of massive speculation, only one has the competitive edge with her Jenova cells. Neither participant demonstrates much desire to fight the other, and neither seems to have experience inflicting violence. This all comes down to their personal capabilities. With years of experience and 'superhuman' cells, Gillian takes the edge over the child.


Ergo

I feel he defended his character very well and repeatedly pointed out his opponent side's main weakness: their overeliance on the same, already refuted argument.
 
AKA
Fancy
ROUND 1-4 WINNER

Chin up y'all, the game continues!



The spectators have spectated and the audience has voted.
It was a close one, but&#8230;



EXCEPT HER NAME IS ACTUALLY CHOLE, MY BAD.


VICTORY GOES TO TEAM CHOCOBO


&#10023;&#65381;&#65439;: *&#10023;&#65381;&#65439;:*Ergo Proxy*:&#65381;&#65439;&#10023;*:&#65381;&#65439;&#10023;


  1. BforB
  2. Channy
  3. Clement Rage
  4. Ergo Proxy
  5. Fancy (will spectate if neccesary)
  6. Joe - spectating (when he gets the time)
  7. InterfaceLeader (on weekends)
  8. LicoriceAllsorts
  9. Minato
  10. solo player sab - spectating

We're going to be joined by InterfaceLeader this next round! Let me know if anyone has a problem with this list and look forward to the next battle post!

:pleasebeexcited:
 
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Ergo

Sugar Honey Ice & Tea
AKA
Ergo, V
Chin up y'all, the game continues!



The spectators have spectated and the audience has voted.
It was a close one, but…



EXCEPT HER NAME IS ACTUALLY CHOLE, MY BAD.


VICTORY GOES TO TEAM CHOCOBO


✧・゚: *✧・゚:*Ergo Proxy*:・゚✧*:・゚✧


  1. BforB
  2. Channy
  3. Clement Rage
  4. Ergo Proxy
  5. Fancy (will spectate if neccesary)
  6. Joe - spectating (when he gets the time)
  7. InterfaceLeader (on weekends)
  8. LicoriceAllsorts
  9. Minato
  10. solo player sab - spectating

We're going to be joined by InterfaceLeader this round! Let me know if anyone has a problem with this list and look forward to the next battle post!

:pleasebeexcited:
 
AKA
Fancy
Battle Post - ROUND 1-5

Round 1-5

Your Teams...



Minato
InterfaceLeader
Clement Rage
Ergo Proxy




Channy
LicoriceAllsorts
BforB
FancySycamoreTree


Your Champions...

VS



The Location...


Train Graveyard

Johnny - An escapee of the Midgar slums who lived for a time in Costa del Sol before (somewhat) returning to his roots and opening a bar in Edge. Is not actually Cloud Strife’s childhood friend...
Are you ready Team Chocobo?


”Old Guy” - Gave a lift to First Class Zack Fair and a comatose Cloud Strife in his truck on their way towards Midgar. He dropped them off on That Cliff on That Fateful Day…
Are you ready Team Moogle?


___________________

The countdown begins when the first team player posts!
 
So we have Johnny, a man in his prime and who grew up in the slums of Midgar -- in Sector 7 no less, right on the edge of the train graveyard. As we all know kids like to sneak into places they aren't allowed, Johnny was probably fighting ghosts and cripshays from the age of eight or so. He clearly has the advantage of being on home ground.

On top of that, he's close friends with Tifa, who no doubt gave him a few tips on self defence in her time.

And he's taking on an old guy who drives a truck? Whose only claim to fame is that he unwittingly delivered Zack to his tragic end?

I think we have a clear and obvious champion here, and it is definitely not the old guy who will spook at the first ghost he sees.






Bring it, Moogles! :awesome:
 
AKA
Fancy

YOOOOOO YOU JUST GOT CALLED OUT, MOOGLE!


Let the record show that the battle phase of Round 1-5 was initiated by Team Chocobo on 19th May, 17:58 GMT.

All players have until...
21th May, 17:58 GMT
...to sway their spectators.

Here's a link to a time zone converter in case anyone needs it.

Best of luck!

 
AKA
Fancy
Reasons Why Johnny Sucks

So we have Johnny, a man in his prime and who grew up in the slums of Midgar -- in Sector 7 no less, right on the edge of the train graveyard. As we all know kids like to sneak into places they aren't allowed, Johnny was probably fighting ghosts and cripshays from the age of eight or so. He clearly has the advantage of being on home ground.
I’ll admit it, my heart’s beating a little fast right now because I hadn’t expected folks to jump into this battle so quickly, lmfao, BUT GAT’DAMN I LOVE IT!

Too bad this is the start of your demise ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Yo, so let’s talk about my main man over here ‘Old Guy’.

A man so mysterious, no one even utters his real name..


Just another day of being a nameless badass, I guess.

But lemme address this point that my opponent’s made about Johnny being on his home turf. Yeah, Johnny’s managed to live all this time in the Midgar Slums and not meet an untimely death, whether it be by the monsters or a desperate slum dweller. But is that by skill? Or by luck



Let’s take a look at my opponent here. ‘Johnny’ so he calls himself. Here are some direct quotes from Johnny and his cousin, Johnny’s Cousin:

Johnny’s Cousin said:
I was jes sittin' here drinkin', watchin' the news by myself.
'n' all of a sudden I get kicked outta the &*%$ store. What's up with that!?
I wasn't even done with my drink. I didn't even pay my bill...
Johnny said:
Woo...... ah geez, I'm blitzed. I jes love them homemade cocktails. But they sure do creep up on ya.
So Johnny boy likes to drink, eh? And that ain’t no thang but a chicken wang! I like to take a sip sip myself every now and then, hey? But how far does Johnny take his debauchery??

Observe this conversation that takes place shortly after the first.
Johnny’s Cousin said:
There’s a TV in there, but my cheap aunt won’t let me in the house. Look for yourself.
Johnny’s Mom said:
I’m not opening up. Go away!!
Johnny said:
Hey!! Open up! C'mon baby!!
It's me! Johnny! Mom!!
Now what kind of mother won’t let her own son inside of the house? Who, in fact, demands that he go away? The kind of mother who is sick and tired of putting up with her grown son’s bullshit!! Clearly this isn’t the first time that poor Mrs Johnny has had to deal with this. Goodness knows how often this has to have happened for her to refuse entry to her drunken, wayward son!

On top of that, he's close friends with Tifa, who no doubt gave him a few tips on self defence in her time.
Does he though?? Or is he too busy getting “blitzed”?

Surely if Tifa, member of AVALANCHE and stout believer in the cause, has suspect that Johnny had any talent in the art of fighting, she’d recruit him immediately? But no. All Miss Lockhart sees in Johnny is a steady customer. Someone’s gotta drink all that alcohol, huh?

Even Johnny’s Cousin will admit to you that Johnny’s got a problem. After Johnny drunkenly slurs on about ‘Goin’ faraway!’ and being a better man before running off, Johnny’s Cousin confides in Cloud saying,

Johnny’s Cousin said:
I hope he doesn't get hurt.
That worries me the most.
Why is that the first thing that pops into the cousin’s mind? Does this Johnny have a history of getting hurt in his drunken escapades? It isn’t, ‘Oh, that Johnny!’ Or ‘There he goes again!’ It’s ‘Aw, shit, I hope this idiot doesn’t get hurt...’

We see Johnny again later on on the Midgar train, still going on about leaving Midgar.

Johnny said:
Later... Goodbye... Adios, Midgar!!
Maybe you wanna believe him, dear Spectators. Mayhaps you’re thinking, ‘Johnny’s gonna change. Johnny’s gonna leave that life behind. Johnny is gonna make a new man of himself, just as he said.’

Only you see dude again….HANGING OUT THE FRONT OF THE HONEY BEE INN. Which, for all who don’t know, IS IN THE SECTOR 6 SLUMS! Yup, hmm, still in Midgar!!


He’s the redhead bowing his head in the left half of the picture

Now what does this all demonstrate? A man who dedicates his life to the pursuit of pleasure. The last thing on his mind would be fighting anyone—he’s sooner run up his tab at Seventh Heaven or visit a Honey Inn Bee Girl. It’s comes to no surprise at all that he would choose to live in Costa del Sol, where he can have a permanent holiday. Johnny would see the ‘Old Guy’, sense he was itching for a fight, and, using his knowledge of Midgar’s terrain, duck and weave out of the train graveyard to the actual train station and haul ass out of there!!! Why fight to the death when you can live for pleasure?

And he's taking on an old guy who drives a truck? Whose only claim to fame is that he unwittingly delivered Zack to his tragic end?
Ah! But that exactly demonstrates one of my opponents strengths.

We’ve all seen Zack Fair, right? Tall, muscular, freaky glowing eyes, big ass sword. If you didn’t know that the guy was a sweetie, most folks would be pretty intimidated by him right? Not this ‘Old Guy!’

Indeed, when Zack has the gall to ask, presumably after the umpteenth time, whether or not they’ve reached Midgar, the ‘Old Guy’ replies:

Old Guy said:
Shaddap! You’re lucky I even gave you a ride!
WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA??????

Now this Old Guy is either blind, crazy, or one of the bravest sonavuguns this planet has ever known to be mouthing off to a First Class SOLDIER.

Now we know he ain’t blind because he’s driving the truck, so that leaves either crazy or brave. Either way, this trait will surely be enough to carry him through a fight with scrawny ol’ Johnny and straight to victory so he may continue nonchalantly giving rides to dangerous men. Cuz he. Just. Don't. GIVE A FUCK.


I think we have a clear and obvious champion here, and it is definitely not the old guy who will spook at the first ghost he sees.
Nope! I think I’ve demonstrated quite clearly who the real victor is.

Now I don’t normally like sinking to this level, but I guess that’s the consequence of the age of social media.
Just another day at the slum’s police department.

What Johnny likes doing most.

What he does on his days off (not training to fight, obvs).

So much enthusiasm and for the wrong things.

This one just hurts

 
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Pfft. You talk a good game, but your argument is as flimsy as Old Guys arthritic bones.

Yo, so let’s talk about my main man over here ‘Old Guy’.

A man so mysterious, no one even utters his real name..


Just another day of being a nameless badass, I guess.
Ahh, except 'He Who Should Not Be Named' doesn't go around being referred to as 'bald guy' now does he? 'Old guy' is not what you call a nameless badass, 'old guy' is what you call the doddery old dude you secretly think should be pensioned off to enjoy his few remaining years in peace.

But lemme address this point that my opponent’s made about Johnny being on his home turf. Yeah, Johnny’s managed to live all this time in the Midgar Slums and not meet an untimely death, whether it be by the monsters or a desperate slum dweller. But is that by skill? Or by luck
Skill. 😎


Ahh, but perhaps you're looking for evidence? Take this:

Johnny survives the slums. He survives a trip to Wall Market -- presumably battling Hell Houses along the way. And then he takes off to... Costa Del Sol.

He's a poor kid from the slums, there's no way he's getting a helicopter ride, which means he battles his way across the plains, through the swamps -- demonstrating either the patient and skill to catch a chocobo or the badassery to defeat a Midgar Zolom -- all the way through the Mythrill Mines... do I need to go on?


Johnny has fought a wide variety of monsters in his time. Let's be honest, one guy two days away from retiring is not going to bother him.

Now what kind of mother won’t let her own son inside of the house? Who, in fact, demnands that he go away? The kind of mother who is sick and tired of putting up with her grown son’s bullshit!! Clearly this isn’t the first time that poor Mrs Johnny has had to deal with this.
Yep, Johnny likes a drink and he's a bit of a trouble maker - nobody is denying that. But let's look at what his parents say later on:


He's high-spirited, yep, and probably not a stranger to the odd bar fight or two -- but he's no alcoholic. He successfully forges a new life in Costa Del Sol, and then starts his own business in Edge - and is successful enough to make a living, despite sending half his customers on to Tifa's place. He could hardly do that if he was drinking his stock now, could he?

No, Johnny likes a drink, but no more than the average high-spirited slum-dwelling teenager. He'll draw on his experience of bar fights, nut the old guy, throw him to a ghost and head home to crack open a well earned beer.




We’ve all seen Zack Fair, right? Tall, muscular, freaky glowing eyes, big ass sword. If you didn’t know that the guy was a sweetie, most folks would be pretty intimidated by him right? Not this ‘Old Guy!’

Indeed, when Zack has the gall to ask, presumably after the umpteenth time, whether or not they’ve reached Midgar, the ‘Old Guy’ replies:

Old Guy said:
Shaddap! You’re lucky I even gave you a ride!
WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA??????

Now this Old Guy is either blind, crazy, or one of the bravest sonavuguns this planet has ever known to be mouthing off to a SOLDIER.

Now we know he ain’t blind because he’s driving the truck, so that leaves either crazy or brave. Either way, this trait will surely be enough to carry him through a fight with scrawny ol’ Johnny and straight to victory so he may continue nonchalantly giving rides to dangerous men. Cuz he. Just. Don't. GIVE A FUCK.
Or he's wondering why the heck this scrawny SOLDIER whose just rolled out of an experiment tube hasn't called for help from Shinra, noticed the basically comatose 'friend' that he's lugging about, and has only given them a ride because he's too much of a coward to say no. He probably called it into Shinra the first chance he could - after all, he drops them off that cliff and then high tails it out of there, right?

Yup, old guy is a coward and a liar -- and he hides it all below a show of bravado.


This one just hurts

Are you trying to tell me that Johnny, close confidante of Tifa -- who far from tolerating him as a patron, whiles away an entire evening in Costa Del Sol reminiscing over the good times she's had with Johnny to the point that she pointedly asks Cloud to leave her alone with Johnny -- would be friends with someone who wears a 'Make Midgar Great Again' hat?

No, these pictures are FAKE NEWS of the worst and most defamatory kind.

Johnny is a loyal friend, a cheerful and good natured soul who Tifa rates highly and who charmed Aeris (who is an excellent judge of character as we know) into giving him a flower. And more than that, he's a competent fighter, traveller and business owner, with through knowledge of the area -- whereas old guy?

Old guy drives a truck.

But this ain't a truck driving contest now, is it?
 
Is it mere coincidence that Johnny is found in Costa del Sol at the same time as Mukki? The last time we saw him, he was outside the Honey Bee Inn, working up the courage to go inside. I put it to you that Johnny has joined the Young Bubbies club, and that far from battling his way to Junon and across the ocean, he was whisked away there by Mukki. Or are we to suppose that every single person who travels from the biggest city in the world to the biggest beach resort in the world can only do by battling their way across plains and mountains and through Mythril Mines, tackling Zoloms and all manner of monsters?
 

BforB

Too Angry™
AKA
B
On top of that, he's close friends with Tifa, who no doubt gave him a few tips on self defence in her time.
HAH!!!!!!!!!!

PLEASE. Does being close friends with a lounge singer automatically make one the second coming of Frank Sinatra? Does being close friends with Cait Sith automatically make one a smart-talkin' animatronic cat? Being friends with Tifa doesn't mean squat, except that she just tolerates Johnny's unworthy, pathetic ass because she has a thing for broken people. Bet his breath stank too.

You talk smack about the Old Guy but you don't know what his life's been like, you ain't know what he's been through. Those eyes have seen some shit, that body has weathered through physical and emotional hardships. The Old Guy was toughened on the streets and he didn't turn to the bottle like Johnny did; he battled through street fights and moseyed his way into becoming a defending champion of an underground fighting ring, his hardass reputation getting him recruited into the murky waters of Shinra's backend operations and eventually to the position of most trusted transporter for the best of Shinra's SOLDIER First Class. They don't give this position to just any old scrub. They drive the truck but they gotta defend it too&#8212;you say that's what the SOLDIER are for, but when they've been transported and all that's left is a truck and all this expensive Shinra equipment, you bet your ass it's the Old Guy that steps up.

Ahh, except 'He Who Should Not Be Named' doesn't go around being referred to as 'bald guy' now does he? 'Old guy' is not what you call a nameless badass, 'old guy' is what you call the doddery old dude you secretly think should be pensioned off to enjoy his few remaining years in peace.
Speaking of bald guys, The Old Guy is, in fact, a veteran of the


This mf ain't even bald and they still begged him to join their troupe.



Oh yes daddy! Look at those defined, huge, muscular arms compared to Johnny's skinny chicken bone limbs. Dude's got a bit of a belly on him now but he still keeps that strength workout routine tight; the roads are long and tough.

Face it, Chocolosers, the Old Guy would pummel Johnny and he could do it with his eyes closed. Johnny's drunk ass just insulted his mother and the Old Guy ain't standing for that bullshit. Johnny wouldn't be able to make it up a single ladder or navigate his way out of the train graveyard. He drunk and confused and shit. He'll be left to face what's in front of him, and when the Old Guy's done with Johnny, the boy'll be a sentient puddle of stale beer, smelling of cheap hookers, burnout dreams and mediocre entrepreneurship.
 
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AKA
Fancy
Reasons Why Johnny Still Sucks

Ahh, except 'He Who Should Not Be Named' doesn't go around being referred to as 'bald guy' now does he? 'Old guy' is not what you call a nameless badass, 'old guy' is what you call the doddery old dude you secretly think should be pensioned off to enjoy his few remaining years in peace.
Oi, but in my opponent's case, it derives from the impression he makes! He leaves folks so shook, so in awe, that when they are later asked to recall, &#8216;that big-muscled but extra cuddly bloke who is part of an esteemed club of badass baldies despite not being bald?&#8217;

&#8216;I dunno.&#8217; they say, dazed, struggling for the words to capture the sheer aura he emits, forcing them to fall back on easily obtained, simple vocabulary, &#8216;An Old Guy.&#8217;

You know who else was an Old Guy? Mahatma Gandhi. NEXT!

Johnny survives the slums. He survives a trip to Wall Market -- presumably battling Hell Houses along the way. And then he takes off to... Costa Del Sol.

He's a poor kid from the slums, there's no way he's getting a helicopter ride, which means he battles his way across the plains, through the swamps -- demonstrating either the patient and skill to catch a chocobo or the badassery to defeat a Midgar Zolom -- all the way through the Mythrill Mines... do I need to go on?


Johnny has fought a wide variety of monsters in his time. Let's be honest, one guy two days away from retiring is not going to bother him.
Oh, come on now! Even Cloud and Crew, all skilled and trained fighters, initially struggle to take down the Midgar Zolom early on in the game together. Are we really supposed to believe that this shrimp was able to handle this monstrosity all by himself when someone with 1st Class SOLDIER strength and know-how, a bruiser, a guy with a giant ass gun on his arm, a half-Cetra, and a whatever-the-hell-Nanaki-is can barely squeeze by on their own skills? Why the heck didn&#8217;t Tifa or Barret take notice if Johnny was this impossibly strong? He could&#8217;ve been helping with the AVALANCHE effort! They wouldn&#8217;t have needed Cloud at all! Cuz apparently this guy is worth about 10 of him!

Did he just not give a shit and chose to waste away his life drowning in women and booze instead of fighting for the Slums and the common man? No! What&#8217;s more likely is that he had company. As my teammate LicoriceAllsorts has pointed out.

Is it mere coincidence that Johnny is found in Costa del Sol at the same time as Mukki? The last time we saw him, he was outside the Honey Bee Inn, working up the courage to go inside. I put it to you that Johnny has joined the Young Bubbies club, and that far from battling his way to Junon and across the ocean, he was whisked away there by Mukki.
Absolutely!!!

Dearest Specators, I do hope you are aware of who Mukki is? To give you a brief lowdown, he&#8217;s a bodyguard. You know, those folks who are generally trained in guarding a target and kicking copious amounts of ass when said target is threatened?




Remember that bit I said about bodyguards protecting a target? Can you guess the name of the target who probably went with Mukki and Crew to Costa del Sol? I&#8217;ll give ya a small hint. It starts with &#8216;J&#8217; and rhymes with Wrongy!

Shameful! Though I suppose it shouldn&#8217;t be too surprising to find that Johnny is a freeloader on top of being a drunkard! Ahem. NEXT!

Yep, Johnny likes a drink and he's a bit of a trouble maker - nobody is denying that. But let's look at what his parents say later on:


He's high-spirited, yep, and probably not a stranger to the odd bar fight or two -- but he's no alcoholic. He successfully forges a new life in Costa Del Sol, and then starts his own business in Edge - and is successful enough to make a living, despite sending half his customers on to Tifa's place. He could hardly do that if he was drinking his stock now, could he?
I&#8217;m entirely convinced that the nitwit must be getting drunk off his own supply if he fails to see that his boasting of Tifa&#8217;s (likely superior) establishment is taking his customers away! And I&#8217;d hardly call it success&#8230; if you ask me, it looks as though it was all put together on a whim (cuz that&#8217;s just the kinda guy Johnny is) with Johnny

Business really looks like it&#8217;s booming btw.
,

Wow much original. So creative.
cuz, well, we&#8217;ve already established that Johnny is not exactly the sort of person to stand on his own merit.

Are you trying to tell me that Johnny, close confidante of Tifa -- who far from tolerating him as a patron, whiles away an entire evening in Costa Del Sol reminiscing over the good times she's had with Johnny to the point that she pointedly asks Cloud to leave her alone with Johnny -- would be friends with someone who wears a 'Make Midgar Great Again' hat?

No, these pictures are FAKE NEWS of the worst and most defamatory kind.
We all have dirty secrets! I&#8217;m just bringing to light one of the dirtiest!

Johnny is a loyal friend, a cheerful and good natured soul who Tifa rates highly and who charmed Aeris (who is an excellent judge of character as we know) into giving him a flower. And more than that, he's a competent fighter, traveller and business owner, with through knowledge of the area -- whereas old guy?

Old guy drives a truck.

But this ain't a truck driving contest now, is it?
Oh, I do believe that Johnny is charming&#8212;how else has he been able to get by doing the bare minimum in life? But charm can only get you so far in a fight! As my teammate B has pointed out, there is a clear physical advantage between the two AND &#8216;the Old Guy&#8217; holds the distinction of driving a truck. How many times do we see people in this game driving trucks around (that weren&#8217;t stolen from Shin-Ra Headquarters)?? LIKE almost no one.

So hell yeah he drives a truck! Because this dude is the real deal! Johnny probably wishes that he knew him a little better to spare him the headache of finding someone new to freeload off of when he wants to settle yet again to a new place.
 
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You talk smack about the Old Guy but you don't know what his life's been like, you ain't know what he's been through. Those eyes have seen some shit, that body has weathered through physical and emotional hardships. The Old Guy was toughened on the streets and he didn't turn to the bottle like Johnny did; he battled through street fights and moseyed his way into becoming a defending champion of an underground fighting ring, his hardass reputation getting him recruited into the murky waters of Shinra's backend operations and eventually to the position of most trusted transporter for the best of Shinra's SOLDIER First Class. They don't give this position to just any old scrub. They drive the truck but they gotta defend it too—you say that's what the SOLDIER are for, but when they've been transported and all that's left is a truck and all this expensive Shinra equipment, you bet your ass it's the Old Guy that steps up.
What is this mad speculation that old guy drove a truck for Shinra? You think Zack is going to hitch a ride on a SOLDIER transport whilst on the run? No way - Zack is no fool. He picked a broken down farm truck, whose driver reeked of desperation.


Oh yes daddy! Look at those defined, huge, muscular arms compared to Johnny's skinny chicken bone limbs. Dude's got a bit of a belly on him now but he still keeps that strength workout routine tight; the roads are long and tough.

Let's look at Old Guy, shall we?



A 'bit of a belly'? The guy is wider around than he is tall! No, an aged obese truck driver who spends all day sitting on his butt driving around in the sun is hardly going to have what it takes to cope in the dark, creepy, dangerous environment of the train graveyard -- and Johnny knows exactly how to make those trains shift about, where to hide, and what's safe to climb.

And we've spent a lot of time exaggerating the amount Johnny likes to drink - but what about old guys past, huh? We know from that belly that the guy likes his food, but what about the other seven deadly sins?

Well, let's see what he says when Zack asks him what he should do with his life!

Old Guy: Young people should try everything!



Yes, this is a guy who likes to experiment - with jobs, and probably with drugs and sex. And the fact he's wound up in a crappy job like driving a truck around is testament to those poor life choices.


And as long as we're making a comparison....



I put it to you that Johnny has joined the Young Bubbies club, and that far from battling his way to Junon and across the ocean, he was whisked away there by Mukki.
Remember that bit I said about bodyguards protecting a target? Can you guess the name of the target who probably went with Mukki and Crew to Costa del Sol? I’ll give ya a small hint. It starts with ‘J’ and rhymes with Wrongy!
Your theory that Mukki took him to Costa Del Sol is built on pure conjecture and thin air - look at that picture of Mukki and his companions you shared.

Look closely and consider the type of company Mukki likes to keep. It seems to me that Mukki has a type, and I think we can all agree that Johnny - whom you yourself described as a 'shrimp' - is not that type.




No, Mukki likes to travel the world and is not short on cash, but his entourage is made up of sporty, muscular, gym-loving guys with a liking for shorts and neatly trimmed facial hair.

NOT slim-and-wiry guys who wear jean jackets with their sleeves rolled up.





Let's take a few minutes and imagine how this battle might go down, shall we?

Old guy: Huh?! Where am I? What's going on?
Johnny: *leaps aboard a train and sends it speeding forward*
Old guy: NOOOOOOO!!!!




Alas, poor Old Guy. He died as he lived - as a passive bystander. Forgotten and unmourned, with nobody even knowing what name to put on his tomb stone.






((Also sorry if the images are HUGE I tried to resize them but not sure if it worked o.o))
 
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