FFXV story/spoiler discussion thread.

Tennyo · Jan 5, 2017

After the fight with Leviathan, the game just...became a real downer. At first it didn't bother me because I thought that it had to pick up eventually but it never really does unless you use Umbra to go "back in time" or whatever. It was just...so depressing. It was cool in the capital city for a bit, but then Prompto had another downer revelation (he's what now?) and it just kept going. Like, I was really beginning to feel depressed from this game.

After Noctis woke up from his ten year nap it was still more depressing. And I felt like I really needed something to offset that. I was really holding out for a somewhat happy ending, but we don't really get it. I mean, it was pretty good for the most part. The scene where Noctis was calling upon the old kings of Lucis, then says, "Dad, trust me," was pretty touching. I have to admit that I loved that part. I'm kind of a sucker for those kinds of things.

But that was pretty much it. After the credits you see the sun rise, so yes, he saved the world. And I guess he gets to be with Luna in the afterlife?

But a lot of the ending seemed sort of...unnecessary? I feel like this game piled on a lot of tragedy just for the sake of tragedy. It didn't all feel like organic extensions of the plot.

Did Luna really need to die? Or at least, did she need to die so early in the plot? Did Noctis have to disappear for ten years only to come back so he can die? I kind of feel like they should have picked one or the other; Noctis be gone for ten years OR Noctis dies. Not both. It just seems a little bit overkill.

Aaaahhhhh maybe I just need time to get over how fucking sad this ending was. Maybe it would be better if we got a bit more of an epilogue? Show us the rest of the cast admiring the sun for the first time in years, maybe? Give us a bit more hope?

Mid credits scene made me cry. I was wailing.

We need a lot more story content to flesh things out, though. I mean, I caught on but still.

We need more Luna scenes. She was barely there.

That's all for now. I'll think of more later.

ForceStealer · Jan 5, 2017

Noctis should have lived. As I observed while I was playing (I might have posted it in the other thread), and as you said, the game really piles on Noctis something fierce. Luna dying provides plenty enough tragedy, the mid-credits scene still would have been completely valid and no less touching.

I kind of enjoyed the Gladiator-style "they're together now," thing, but I would have preferred that Noctis was able to ACTUALLY reclaim his throne ~~and hook up with Aranea~~. Tidus' sacrifice was suitably explained about why it was that way. This was just "because Bahamut says so."

lol, looks like I said this almost word for word in this post, so you may have already read it. :monster:

Tennyo · Jan 5, 2017

Funnily enough, Bahamut was the bearer of bad news in both games, wasn't he? Bahamut was the one to tell both Tidus and Noctis their fate.

And I had not read your post yet but yeah, I feel the same way.

The least this game could have done would have been to allow Noctis to ACTUALLY BE THE KING EVERYONE HAD BEEN TELLING HIM TO BE.

To be honest I think part of the reason I feel this way is because I really did love Noctis. So much. He was great. All four of the bros were. <3

The Twilight Mexican · Jan 5, 2017

Speaking of the four bros, I'm embarrassed I didn't realize this myself: They're

the four Warriors of Light!

Someone going by u/YANN_LIFE pointed out on Reddit that they're the four figures at the center of the

Prompto's the dude with short blonde hair on the left, Noct is obvious, and Gladio is supporting Ignis, who's blind.

I assume some of the other figures are the Kings of Lucis, Shiva, Leviathan, Titan, Ramuh and Ardyn. Not sure why there's a mermaid with Ardyn, but whatever.

Lord Noctis · Jan 5, 2017

I kinda have to disagree with you guys here.

To be honest I think Noctis living would seriously spoil the ending of this game. For one thing, his sacrifice lends the ending most of its emotional impact. His final farewell to his friends on the steps before the citadel, enduring the attacks of the former kings of Lucis, telling Regis to trust in him, and his final assault on Ardyn in the beyond are all vital parts of this ending imo.

Besides, sacrifice is one of the major themes in this game. Letting Noctis live just wouldn't work as well with that as the ending we got. FFXV is a tragedy, and intentionally so, and I think it works best that way.

Don't get me wrong, I get where you guys are coming from. Noctis took a lot of shit, and he certainly deserved a happy ending. At least he gets to be with Luna in the afterlife, and he looked to be content with that.

Edit: Nice find Tres, that is really cool.

Tetsujin · Jan 5, 2017

The Twilight Mexican said:
Speaking of the four bros, I'm embarrassed I didn't realize this myself: They're

the four Warriors of Light!

Someone going by u/YANN_LIFE pointed out on Reddit that they're the four figures at the center of the

Prompto's the dude with short blonde hair on the left, Noct is obvious, and Gladio is supporting Ignis, who's blind.

I assume some of the other figures are the Kings of Lucis, Shiva, Leviathan, Titan, Ramuh and Ardyn. Not sure why there's a mermaid with Ardyn, but whatever.

That's not a mermaid, that's Leviathan and Bahamut

One might think that Leviathan is that snake-like creature being speared but all that shit at the bottom just represents daemons.

The Twilight Mexican · Jan 5, 2017

Thanks for the correction. :monster:

One thing I forgot to add to my post above, by the way, is that this explains why Ifrit's pose when we first see him references the artwork of Chaos on his throne. And it kind of helps justify that flashforward there at the beginning a little bit, though I still think it shouldn't have been done.

The Twilight Mexican · Jan 5, 2017

Finally have that bit where Tabata spoke of Luna and Yuna done. I don't usually go out of my way to tell you guys when I had a hard time with something, but this poor quality photograph is what I had to work off to get this. Somehow I managed, so I'm feeling just a little badass at the moment, if I'm being honest.

Here we are then:

----
――ルナフレーナが水に沈んでいく場面は、『FFVII』のエアリスを連想させられましたが……。

田畑　それは僕も感じましたね。たぶんあの演出は、ムービーを制作したスタッフたちが、『FFVII』へのオマージュとして入れたんだと思います。僕自身は、ルナフレーナに対してはエアリスよりも『FFX』のユウナのほうを意識していました。『FFXV』のヒロインは、ユウナとは異なるキャラクター性を出したいと考えていたんです。『FFX』では、ユウナを象徴するシーンとして水面で舞う場面があり、とても幻想的で神秘的なイメージだったので、それとはちがう方向性を探った結果、ルナフレーナにふさわしいシーンとして、オルティシエで帝国軍の兵士たちに囲まれつつも毅然とした態度で自分の意志を示す場面を描きました。

――The scene where Lunafreya was sinking into the water is reminiscent of FFVII's Aerith ...

Tabata: I see that. I think the staff who worked on the production of that scene probably put that in as an homage to FFVII. For myself, I was more conscious of FFX's Yuna than Aerith. I wanted to make the heroine of FFXV a distinct character from Yuna. In FFX, there's a scene that's iconic of Yuna where she dances on water, and it's fantastic and mysterious, and so the result of exploring a different direction from that as a scene that would be appropriate for Lunafreya is the scene in Altissia where she's surrounded by soldiers of the imperial army and shows off her willpower with that resolute attitude.
----

This explains why they kept shoving that scene down our throats in promotional imagery and the like. :monster:

And also why it's still in the game when it's obviously a leftover from where the plot had changed. As many players and reviewers have pointed out, it makes no sense for the soldiers to be pointing their guns at Luna to get her to do something she was there to do in the first place.

The scene is there entirely because Tabata wanted it to be Lunafreya's iconic imagery. I'm not sure that it's going to be remembered the way he was hoping, though.

Shademp · Jan 5, 2017

The Twilight Mexican said:

The Twilight Mexican · Jan 6, 2017

I saw some folks on Reddit makes some very depressing observations about Chapter 14. Turns out that

Coctura and Dino became daemons:

Maybe they lived long enough as daemons to see the return of the Light, but they could have easily been killed in those ten years by Hunters or even by Noctis himself when he returned.

The Twilight Mexican said:
Blade said:

Have to point out to you, Tres. Armiger can be stolen. If they really did return to the tombs, they could just as easily return to the current or previous major King.

Cor wrote a note about Sword of the Tall being taken to Costlemark by Daemons. And of course Regis' sword was taken too.

Click to expand...

It probably wouldn't be possible to summon one out of Costlemark or away from Ravus if no one who had bonded to the weapons was alive, though. Noctis hadn't done that yet.

By the way, that note you're thinking of was left by Hunters.

Returning to this topic, I think we have proof that the weapons return to the tombs if we stop to think about it.

Ardyn has the same Royal Arms in his Armiger that Noctis can acquire.

If they could only be acquired once, they wouldn't have been there for one man or the other to find, right?

While on this topic, since

Ardyn can acquire the Royal Arms of the Lucian kings, does that confirm that he's related to them?

Joe · Jan 6, 2017

The Twilight Mexican said:
While on this topic, since

Ardyn can acquire the Royal Arms of the Lucian kings, does that confirm that he's related to them?

I've been assuming since I finished the game that there's a relation between Ardyn and the rest. It could obviously be interpreted differently but I figured Izunia was his brother or something. It would explain why Ardyn describes him primarily as 'jealous', as that's typical of sibling relationships. Plus we're only given one name for this person, which I took to be their first name. Izunia Lucis Caelum.

Obviously there's little evidence to support it either way but given what we know it's where my mind went first.

The Twilight Mexican · Jan 6, 2017

The Japanese text helps us a little here because he says

ああ　イズニアは誰の姓だったか―― "Ahh ... I wonder whose surname was Izunia ..."

So, whoever Izunia was to him, they did have a different last name.

Joe · Jan 6, 2017

Blast. Foiled again.

Tetsujin · Jan 6, 2017

The Twilight Mexican said:
I saw some folks on Reddit makes some very depressing observations about Chapter 14. Turns out that

Coctura and Dino became daemons:

Maybe they lived long enough as daemons to see the return of the Light, but they could have easily been killed in those ten years by Hunters or even by Noctis himself when he returned.

Hmm. Coctura was a chef.

In that spot you fight a Tonberry.
Tonberries wield chef knives...

:sadpanda:

Blade · Jan 6, 2017

On the subject of Noctis

FF Lore suggests Death doesn't exist so long as memories are present to restore someone.

However you interpet things is up to you though.

Superespresso · Jan 6, 2017

The Twilight Mexican said:
The Japanese text helps us a little here because he says

ああ　イズニアは誰の姓だったか―― "Ahh ... I wonder whose surname was Izunia ..."

So, whoever Izunia was to him, they did have a different last name.

Yes Ardyn is related to the Lucis Caleum line. That was part of the whole armiger rambling I brought up a few pages back. I still want to know who the hell Izunia was exactly though. I must know this.

One of the big theories I've seen proposed was the name 'Izunia' belonged to the Regeant of Lucis at the time since Ardyn was off healing everyone. I like the theory but there's so little fact to support it that it's just a nice thought at this point.

Joe · Jan 6, 2017

At one point Ardyn refers to him (in the English) as 'A jealous king, not yet chosen by the crystal.'

While this could mean he's not yet a king until he's chosen, it could also mean he was the king at the time - before Ardyn was rejected - and being recognised by the crystal/astrals was something separate that came later.

Tetsujin · Jan 6, 2017

So where's my Daemon Slayer Iris in the World of Ruin DLC? :monster:

Joe · Jan 6, 2017

Take the elevator up to the fourth floor and hang right. Keep going until you pass the gents washroom and enter the door marked 'cutting room'.

Look down.

Unit-01 · Jan 6, 2017

Tetsujin said:
So where's my Daemon Slayer Iris in the World of Ruin DLC?

Cut from the game.

Actually the other 90% of the WoR was cut. Hope it is at least put back in as DLC.

Lord Noctis · Jan 6, 2017

Ideally I'd like to see all of the cut story content appear in the game alongside the new cut scenes they are making for the story updates. But alas, square is a business first, so its a fair bet that if they do decide to release that stuff it will be as paid dlc. Oh well, fingers crossed.

Lulcielid · Jan 6, 2017

Pink Guy said:
Cut from the game.

Actually the other 90% of the WoR was cut. Hope it is at least put back in as DLC.

Proof?

The Twilight Mexican · Jan 6, 2017

One doesn't really need any given how obvious it is. There's so much stuff pre-

World of Ruin

that was fully rendered and is being explored right now but was essentially cut by way of invisible walls that it's a no-brainer they would have liked to add more there as well.

Hell, as it is right now, it's been proven that we were originally supposed to drive or hoof it from Cartanica to the Fodina Caestino Mine:

https://www.reddit.com/r/FFXV/comments/5m6a17/screenshots_of_cartanica_glitch_spoilers_for/

Someone even glitched outside the confines of the area where you have the final battle, and it's obvious there's tons of assets around there that were meant to be explored in gameplay:

https://youtu.be/oLWXPaaB9sE

According to the player who took those pictures, one of the buildings near

the Citadel even has a soccer field on its roof!

I don't know if you've not been watching the exploration videos I've been posting, but probably half the game map was actually built and can be traversed (even the vast snowfields around

Shiva's body

in the Ghorovas Rift), yet isn't normally accessible.

Tetsujin · Jan 7, 2017

Always thought Cartanica looked a bit too elaborate to just be a background. The exploration stuff posted by people confirms it. There's a bunch of roads and other stuff outside of what you'd be able to see from the trains or the train station. I don't think that suspension bridge was visible at all, right?

Makes sense too, I doubt they had the Regalia loaded onto the train only to be used for a single sequence in chapter 13.
And the elevator on a public train station somehow leading "directly" to a mine (which isn't even underground or close to the train station) made no sense either.

The Twilight Mexican · Jan 7, 2017

Has anyone looked around

the room in the Citadel just outside the throne room

before the final battle?

I'm seeing claims on reddit that there are paintings on the walls (specifically one to the left of the doors) that explain/confirm additional lore of the game. From watching some walkthrough videos, I do see paintings -- but in video after video that I check, people just run straight to the fucking battle. No one is actually looking around.

Ugh. What the hell?

This is why it was so hard for me to track down those Cosmogony entries. When did this "run straight to the end" kind of thing become the standard for exploration in RPGs?

FFXV story/spoiler discussion thread.

Higher Further Faster

Double Growth

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Harbinger of Darkness

he/they

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420

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I KEEP MY IDEALS

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he/they

That Man

The big lad

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Might be around.

Harbinger of Darkness

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