FFXV story/spoiler discussion thread.
- Thread starter Joe
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Lulcielid
Eyes of the Lord
- AKA
- Lulcy
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/932981-final-fantasy-xv/74768598
seems like the royal weapons have other names in the spanish localization.
Sword of the Wise = Salomon
Axe of the Conqueror = Deva
Bow of the Clever = Vaiu
Swords of the Wanderer = Janos
Blade of the Mystic = Iaksa
Star of the Rogue = Fukuryu
Greatsword of the Tall = Goliat
Shield of the Just = Galatea
Mace of the Fierce = Ragnar
Scepter of the Pious = Bautista
Trident of the Oracle = Vajra
Katana of the Warrior = Beatrix
Sword of the Father = Caelum
seems like the royal weapons have other names in the spanish localization.
Sword of the Wise = Salomon
Axe of the Conqueror = Deva
Bow of the Clever = Vaiu
Swords of the Wanderer = Janos
Blade of the Mystic = Iaksa
Star of the Rogue = Fukuryu
Greatsword of the Tall = Goliat
Shield of the Just = Galatea
Mace of the Fierce = Ragnar
Scepter of the Pious = Bautista
Trident of the Oracle = Vajra
Katana of the Warrior = Beatrix
Sword of the Father = Caelum
Kuja9001
Ooooh Salty!
- AKA
- roxas9001, Krat0s9001, DarkSlayerZero
Supposed Ultimania info from 4chan so take this with a handful of salt
The story of Ardyn and his family is a long and complicated one and a very sad one. First off the one who fought the first coming of the darkness and was given the crystal wasn't Ardyn himself, but Ardyn's father.
He was born with a strong power of light and was said to be related to the astrals astral. If it was simply a rumor, or the truth no one knew. The astrals didn't confirm or deny it. This is what angered Ifrit and led to him leaving the others, he almost got Leviathan to go with him as well. He was angry over what he perceived as heresy, that a lowly human was born with godlike power, while the other astrals said nothing. Ifrit was treasonous by nature and often disagreed with the others on all sorts of topics, but this was the last straw.
The first could deploy and maintain his Armiger indefinitely, absolutely shitting on Noctis in terms of powerlevels. The plague started when Ifrit's corpse began decaying after the war. It is actually his remains that spread and corrupted living things and turned them to monsters.
The first king fought using countless glaives, hence why the term is still used to this day even though the many kings since his death use mostly swords.
After the war he built a fortress to protect the crystal he was given which he kept watch over for many years, often going without sleep for days at a time while watching over it. He built the fortress with the help of the many people he saved from daemons during the war.
The people stayed by his side and built a city around the fortress which he lead as he kept the crystal under close watch, and thus the city state of Insomnia came into being, named in honor of the sleepless king.
Years pass and the king sensing that the daemons are returning wishes to set out to vanquish them once again. He tasks his two sons to keep watch over the crystal in his absence.
Crown prince Ardyn the elder son and his younger brother. Ardyn protests, pointing out that his father is in poor condition from overuse of his power and lack of rest and should not be travelling, instead he offers to take on his father's duty.
The king wasn't willing at first, but left with no other option allows Ardyn to go. And so Ardyn sets out on a long journey to rid the world of all daemons, like the original chosen hero of light had done.
At first Ardyn simply killed the daemons, no questions asked, but over time he began noticing a strange illness in places where daemons would emerge and that some daemons were not fully transformed resembled humans.
He put two and two together and came to the correct conclusion that daemons were once humans and that he had been killing people all along, this almost drove him insane, he has been the way he is now ever since.
The king had known, which is why he did not want Ardyn to go. It's at this point that Ardyn resolves to save the daemons rather than kill them.
He discovers that absorbing the darkness into his own body purifies the afflicted and the turned and since he has his father's power of light he is capable of keeping the darkness at bay, keeping himself from turning into a daemon.
Ardyn becomes known as a savior to the people of Eos, eventually surpassing the king's legacy as a hero. He became a literal Messiah, but at the cost of tainting his own body.
Several years have passed since Ardyn initially set out. He now has a wife travelling with him, awaiting his child, the taint did not affect her because Ardyn reabsorbed it into himself.
One day he receives news of his father the king's condition having worsened considerably and he hurries back home. There he meets his brother, at first seemingly happy to see him again after all these years, but he secretly harboured resentment and jealousy because of Ardyn's many great deeds.
On the night of Ardyn's return, the king dies. Ardyn was initially named the successor, but the brother learned of what happened during his Ardyn's journey and claimed that crystal would reject him as its master as Ardyn was too impure, so he should be king.
They put the theory to the test and rightly so the crystal does reject him. Arrogant and self confident the brother attempts to use the crystal, but instead of rejecting him the crystal simply does not react at all because he wasn't the one chosen.
Ardyn mocks him, enraging the brother and the two fight. Ardyn defeats the brother and once again leaves Insomnia. Rumors of Ardyn being a monster begin to surface, it's as this time that the name Izunia is given to him.
He does not care and chooses to live a quiet life with his wife in the territories of outer Niflheim. This lasts for a few months until one day his wife is abducted while he is out of the house, leaving only a message from the captor behind.
It's a letter of challenge from the brother. Ardyn travels to Lucis where he confronts his brother now the king, in front of many onlookers outside the castle, all citizens of Insomnia.
The brother had notably aged well past his real age. As it turns out the brother forced a contract with the crystal to gain its power, but this ended up costing him.
The brother mocks Ardyn, saying that he came in vain as the woman had already died causing Ardyn for the first and only time to lose control over the daemons and turn into a daemon before a large audience.
The two fight and it's a very close match with both taking heavy injuries, but Ardyn is defeated. Ardyn dies his first death, demonized by his own brother and loathed by people he once fought to save. His name is erased from the Lucis Caelum family line and the brother is proclaimed the hero.
Under the rule of the younger brother Lucis actively hunted down those afflicted by the darkness and expanded their own borders. The brother became known as the greatest conqueror in Lucis' history, but he never had children of his own.
In truth Ardyn's wife had died in childbirth and the brother adopted Ardyn's son as his own after their battle, maybe as a trophy of sorts from his victory.
Ardyn reforms in Lucis after a century has passed. With the aid of the crystal Lucis is now the most advanced country and Insomnia the largest city. Bewildered and confused Ardyn breaks into the castle and reaches the throne room where he demands to see his brother.
But the king he meets is a king who Ardyn doesn't recognize. He wants to know why Ardyn wishes to see his ancestor who passed long before he was even born. He becomes agitated and expels Ardyn from the castle in person.
Ardyn is thrown out in the rain and mud. Ardyn rises to his feet and curses the Lucis royal family, vowing to one day see them and the crystal to their end.
He was born with a strong power of light and was said to be related to the astrals astral. If it was simply a rumor, or the truth no one knew. The astrals didn't confirm or deny it. This is what angered Ifrit and led to him leaving the others, he almost got Leviathan to go with him as well. He was angry over what he perceived as heresy, that a lowly human was born with godlike power, while the other astrals said nothing. Ifrit was treasonous by nature and often disagreed with the others on all sorts of topics, but this was the last straw.
The first could deploy and maintain his Armiger indefinitely, absolutely shitting on Noctis in terms of powerlevels. The plague started when Ifrit's corpse began decaying after the war. It is actually his remains that spread and corrupted living things and turned them to monsters.
The first king fought using countless glaives, hence why the term is still used to this day even though the many kings since his death use mostly swords.
After the war he built a fortress to protect the crystal he was given which he kept watch over for many years, often going without sleep for days at a time while watching over it. He built the fortress with the help of the many people he saved from daemons during the war.
The people stayed by his side and built a city around the fortress which he lead as he kept the crystal under close watch, and thus the city state of Insomnia came into being, named in honor of the sleepless king.
Years pass and the king sensing that the daemons are returning wishes to set out to vanquish them once again. He tasks his two sons to keep watch over the crystal in his absence.
Crown prince Ardyn the elder son and his younger brother. Ardyn protests, pointing out that his father is in poor condition from overuse of his power and lack of rest and should not be travelling, instead he offers to take on his father's duty.
The king wasn't willing at first, but left with no other option allows Ardyn to go. And so Ardyn sets out on a long journey to rid the world of all daemons, like the original chosen hero of light had done.
At first Ardyn simply killed the daemons, no questions asked, but over time he began noticing a strange illness in places where daemons would emerge and that some daemons were not fully transformed resembled humans.
He put two and two together and came to the correct conclusion that daemons were once humans and that he had been killing people all along, this almost drove him insane, he has been the way he is now ever since.
The king had known, which is why he did not want Ardyn to go. It's at this point that Ardyn resolves to save the daemons rather than kill them.
He discovers that absorbing the darkness into his own body purifies the afflicted and the turned and since he has his father's power of light he is capable of keeping the darkness at bay, keeping himself from turning into a daemon.
Ardyn becomes known as a savior to the people of Eos, eventually surpassing the king's legacy as a hero. He became a literal Messiah, but at the cost of tainting his own body.
Several years have passed since Ardyn initially set out. He now has a wife travelling with him, awaiting his child, the taint did not affect her because Ardyn reabsorbed it into himself.
One day he receives news of his father the king's condition having worsened considerably and he hurries back home. There he meets his brother, at first seemingly happy to see him again after all these years, but he secretly harboured resentment and jealousy because of Ardyn's many great deeds.
On the night of Ardyn's return, the king dies. Ardyn was initially named the successor, but the brother learned of what happened during his Ardyn's journey and claimed that crystal would reject him as its master as Ardyn was too impure, so he should be king.
They put the theory to the test and rightly so the crystal does reject him. Arrogant and self confident the brother attempts to use the crystal, but instead of rejecting him the crystal simply does not react at all because he wasn't the one chosen.
Ardyn mocks him, enraging the brother and the two fight. Ardyn defeats the brother and once again leaves Insomnia. Rumors of Ardyn being a monster begin to surface, it's as this time that the name Izunia is given to him.
He does not care and chooses to live a quiet life with his wife in the territories of outer Niflheim. This lasts for a few months until one day his wife is abducted while he is out of the house, leaving only a message from the captor behind.
It's a letter of challenge from the brother. Ardyn travels to Lucis where he confronts his brother now the king, in front of many onlookers outside the castle, all citizens of Insomnia.
The brother had notably aged well past his real age. As it turns out the brother forced a contract with the crystal to gain its power, but this ended up costing him.
The brother mocks Ardyn, saying that he came in vain as the woman had already died causing Ardyn for the first and only time to lose control over the daemons and turn into a daemon before a large audience.
The two fight and it's a very close match with both taking heavy injuries, but Ardyn is defeated. Ardyn dies his first death, demonized by his own brother and loathed by people he once fought to save. His name is erased from the Lucis Caelum family line and the brother is proclaimed the hero.
Under the rule of the younger brother Lucis actively hunted down those afflicted by the darkness and expanded their own borders. The brother became known as the greatest conqueror in Lucis' history, but he never had children of his own.
In truth Ardyn's wife had died in childbirth and the brother adopted Ardyn's son as his own after their battle, maybe as a trophy of sorts from his victory.
Ardyn reforms in Lucis after a century has passed. With the aid of the crystal Lucis is now the most advanced country and Insomnia the largest city. Bewildered and confused Ardyn breaks into the castle and reaches the throne room where he demands to see his brother.
But the king he meets is a king who Ardyn doesn't recognize. He wants to know why Ardyn wishes to see his ancestor who passed long before he was even born. He becomes agitated and expels Ardyn from the castle in person.
Ardyn is thrown out in the rain and mud. Ardyn rises to his feet and curses the Lucis royal family, vowing to one day see them and the crystal to their end.
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
Even though the bits under spoiler tags in this post are in response to Blade's previous post, there's some information there that anyone who has completed the game (or watched others do so) will probably find interesting.
At least I found it all illuminating.
Maybe he did get screwed and we just don't know it, but all we were left with reason to think is that for what was supposedly his passion project, he didn't have much passion for turning it into something people could play and his employers could sell.
At least I found it all illuminating.
Yeah, and even half-baked as those more prominent aspects of the mythos are, the FNC elements that stuck it out all the way to the end were utterly gutted by comparison.
Blade said:
"Esper" was never used as a term in FFXV, though, neither Japanese nor English. For that matter, that specific word wasn't even present in Japanese for FFVI or FFXII, and -- on a somewhat related note -- summons were called by different titles across those entries rather than the same term. For FFVI (as well as IV), they were 幻獣 ("phantom beasts"), and then for XII, they were just 召喚獣 ("summon beasts"), the term most commonly used for them in FF.
More to the point, though, FFXV's Magitek Troopers and Magitek Armor are unrelated to this game's summons in the plot/world setting. Instead, their power comes from the daemons (シガイ in Japanese, the same word used for the Cie'th in FFXIII), who, in turn, come from the Starscourge (星の病
parasite.
While on that subject, I would argue that the Starscourge should never have been called this in the English translation. As I suspected previously, FFXV's frequent use of the word "star" should have been translated as "planet," as it was in FFVII. The game outright says so at the beginning during the "Lore" segment of the Tutorial -- but not in the English localization.
In the Japanese version, this statement can be seen while examining the painting called "The Six and the Oracle":
or here for a video showing off all the Japanese captions for the paintings.
The captioning for "The Six and the Oracle" reads pretty much the same in Japanese as in English (
) until you get to the last line, which was omitted from the English translation --
ちなみに、これらの話題でいう「星」は「世界」の意です。
"By the way, 'star' in these topics means 'world.'"
If, as I further suspect, the meteorite outside Lestallum in the Cleigne region is the source of the Starscourge, then it's essentially this game's version of Jenova. After all, we do learn in Chapter 14 that the Starscourge is a mass of microscopic living entities absorbing the daylight, and that all the daemons are unfortunate humans it transformed:
I'd suggest that "Starscourge" should probably be something more like "Planetscourge" or "World Sickness" -- or maybe "Terrastigma" (
).
For those curious about more Japanese terms in FF, the precise word "Magitek" (an obvious portmanteau of the English words "magic" and "technology") never showed up in VI or XV (or XIV or Type-0 for that matter) either, but the same Japanese word was actually used in all those cases: 魔導 ("sorcery"). Generic though that sounds, it's actually less generic than the word for "magic" generally used in FF (魔法. Since 魔導 doesn't get used that much, I will agree with Blade that they certainly knew what they were referencing there -- "Magitek Armor" is 魔導アーマー, "Magitek Knight" is 魔導戦士, and "Magitek Trooper" is 魔導兵.
More to the point, though, FFXV's Magitek Troopers and Magitek Armor are unrelated to this game's summons in the plot/world setting. Instead, their power comes from the daemons (シガイ in Japanese, the same word used for the Cie'th in FFXIII), who, in turn, come from the Starscourge (星の病
parasite.While on that subject, I would argue that the Starscourge should never have been called this in the English translation. As I suspected previously, FFXV's frequent use of the word "star" should have been translated as "planet," as it was in FFVII. The game outright says so at the beginning during the "Lore" segment of the Tutorial -- but not in the English localization.
In the Japanese version, this statement can be seen while examining the painting called "The Six and the Oracle":
The captioning for "The Six and the Oracle" reads pretty much the same in Japanese as in English (
"Old tales tell of six gods who have stood watch over Eos since antiquity. It is said they now slumber, conserving their strength, waiting to awaken upon the coming of a plague known as the Starscourge. She most pure of faith is the Oracle, a daughter in the line of those said to commune with the Six. Blessed by the astral gods, she calls forth the power of Eos to heal those who are suffering and afflicted. Her devotion to helping all those in need has inspired reverence for her among people from all over the world."
ちなみに、これらの話題でいう「星」は「世界」の意です。
"By the way, 'star' in these topics means 'world.'"
If, as I further suspect, the meteorite outside Lestallum in the Cleigne region is the source of the Starscourge, then it's essentially this game's version of Jenova. After all, we do learn in Chapter 14 that the Starscourge is a mass of microscopic living entities absorbing the daylight, and that all the daemons are unfortunate humans it transformed:
I'd suggest that "Starscourge" should probably be something more like "Planetscourge" or "World Sickness" -- or maybe "Terrastigma" (
).For those curious about more Japanese terms in FF, the precise word "Magitek" (an obvious portmanteau of the English words "magic" and "technology") never showed up in VI or XV (or XIV or Type-0 for that matter) either, but the same Japanese word was actually used in all those cases: 魔導 ("sorcery"). Generic though that sounds, it's actually less generic than the word for "magic" generally used in FF (魔法
. Since 魔導 doesn't get used that much, I will agree with Blade that they certainly knew what they were referencing there -- "Magitek Armor" is 魔導アーマー, "Magitek Knight" is 魔導戦士, and "Magitek Trooper" is 魔導兵."Kingsglaive" definitely hung onto some things. Some scenes from the early Versus XIII trailers even made their way in, such as the standoff between Aldercapt and King Regis, and the first meeting between Noctis and Stella (reimagined as a meeting between Nyx and Luna, and discussing different things).Blade said:
Agreed about your general sentiment here, but "The Sandman" was only ever written by Neil Gaiman.Blade said:
I, too, would like to know, but I have little sympathy for him. In eight years, he showed off a handful of trailers and gave little reason to believe he or his team were any closer to finishing the game in 2014 than they had been in 2010.Blade said:
Maybe he did get screwed and we just don't know it, but all we were left with reason to think is that for what was supposedly his passion project, he didn't have much passion for turning it into something people could play and his employers could sell.
Lord Noctis
Harbinger of Darkness
- AKA
- Caius Ballad
Even if that info isn't legit, and I really hope it is, its still really good. If it turns out to be fake I'll still probably keep it as a headcanon.
ForceStealer
Double Growth
Thanks for all that, Tres. It is pretty fascinating hearing the Japanese words for FF staple terms in English. Such as Esper and Magitek and all that. I would totally have guessed that magitek was a similar portmanteau, or indeed in katana. And are GF's, Eidolons, and Aeons all the latter "summon beast" you mentioned?
Also interesting, and I agree. My only question that I don't see in here, how does the term for "Starscourge" compare to what was used for Geostigma? Because I remember the first fan-translations of Advent Children called it "Star Scar Syndrome."
If it's the same, I have half a mind to say it should have just been geostigma. But it's hard to tell how much is good as a reference and how much would imply direct connection.
While on that subject, I would argue that the Starscourge should never have been called this in the English translation. As I suspected previously, FFXV's frequent use of the word "star" should have been translated as "planet," as it was in FFVII. The game outright says so at the beginning during the "Lore" segment of the Tutorial -- but not in the English localization.
In the Japanese version, this statement can be seen while examining the painting called "The Six and the Oracle":
or here for a video showing off all the Japanese captions for the paintings.
The captioning for "The Six and the Oracle" reads pretty much the same in Japanese as in English () until you get to the last line, which was omitted from the English translation --"Old tales tell of six gods who have stood watch over Eos since antiquity. It is said they now slumber, conserving their strength, waiting to awaken upon the coming of a plague known as the Starscourge. She most pure of faith is the Oracle, a daughter in the line of those said to commune with the Six. Blessed by the astral gods, she calls forth the power of Eos to heal those who are suffering and afflicted. Her devotion to helping all those in need has inspired reverence for her among people from all over the world."
ちなみに、これらの話題でいう「星」は「世界」の意です。
"By the way, 'star' in these topics means 'world.'"
If, as I further suspect, the meteorite outside Lestallum in the Cleigne region is the source of the Starscourge, then it's essentially this game's version of Jenova. After all, we do learn in Chapter 14 that the Starscourge is a mass of microscopic living entities absorbing the daylight, and that all the daemons are unfortunate humans it transformed:
I'd suggest that "Starscourge" should probably be something more like "Planetscourge" or "World Sickness" -- or maybe "Terrastigma" (
Also interesting, and I agree. My only question that I don't see in here, how does the term for "Starscourge" compare to what was used for Geostigma? Because I remember the first fan-translations of Advent Children called it "Star Scar Syndrome."
If it's the same, I have half a mind to say it should have just been geostigma. But it's hard to tell how much is good as a reference and how much would imply direct connection.
Blade
That Man
- AKA
- Darkside-Ky/Mimeblade
It really kills me when Ultimania is the only source of all the vital info that SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN THE GAME. More than
It's like, why even translate if there's so much cut info?
"Whoops we didn't tell you this!"
I mean, even more recent fighting games have enough sense to add an in-game Library or Dictionary of terms.
Thanks for all the Notation, Tres, but really I wish you didn't HAVE to explain that stuff. It should be self-explanatory!
Knights of the Round kills Noctis, even!
It's like, why even translate if there's so much cut info?
"Whoops we didn't tell you this!"
I mean, even more recent fighting games have enough sense to add an in-game Library or Dictionary of terms.
Thanks for all the Notation, Tres, but really I wish you didn't HAVE to explain that stuff. It should be self-explanatory!
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
Force said:
Guardian Forces actually were called that even in Japanese, but the rest of the creative names used in FFIX, X, XII, and XIII were just "summon beasts." In FFXV, the Astrals/The Six were 神々("the gods") or 六神 ("the six gods"), though the command 召喚 ("summon") still appears when calling them during battle. The reference to them as "the Hexatheon" in the Book of Cosmogony was also "the six gods."
Force said:
I'm glad you asked that, because I almost addressed it as well.
The names are similar enough to be a reference intended to make you think of it, but dissimilar enough that you wouldn't want to translate them the same, even though the key ideas (the planet and sickness) are present for both:
-Starscourge-
星の病
-Geostigma-
星痕症候群
Where the reference becomes as subtle as a jackhammer, though,
is in that the Reunion Files told us that Geostigma was adapted from an idea originally intended for FFX, in which Yuna was to have been healing people afflicted with a plague during her travels. FFXV features Luna ("Lunafreya" and "Yunalesca" ... Hmm. "Luna" and "Yuna"? Both of which mean "moon"? Hmm!) doing literally that very thing, as in that scene where she heals the older gentleman suffering from infestation by the Starscourge. Poor fella would have become a daemon.
Which brings me back to the connections I've previously drawn between Ardyn and Sephiroth with additional thoughts. Not only were both once hailed as heroes only to later feel they had been supplanted of their rightful place in the world by traitors, but both also came to literally embody an alien influence seeking to contaminate their world even as they simultaneously carried out elaborate plots of petty revenge against the protagonist.
Like Sephiroth, Ardyn was so corrupted by this alien influence that he not only couldn't join with Eos's river of souls without first being cleansed, but one also has to wonder if his very actions weren't being influenced on some level by what had happened to his body.
For an example of what I mean, when Luna touches him in Chapter 9 and heals a little of the corruption within him, he reacts with a harsh smack. Was that simple contempt or the influence within him reacting defensively? The way his face contorts, I wonder. Luna's own words to him there imply she recognized him as a victim as well, and as he walked away from her, he looked at where she touched him as though deep in thought.
I'm then reminded of how his spirit reacted when Noct finally crossed over to put him to rest. As he was dying at Noctis's hand in Insomnia, Ardyn seemed at peace with his passing and respectful toward Noctis. But in the spirit realm, after initially taking off his hat in a seemingly friendly gesture to Noctis, Ardyn's head suddenly thrashed violently and he seemed overcome by something forcing its way to the surface. His face changed a second time -- on this occasion, blatantly twisting into his daemon visage. His thrashing became even more violent after Lunafreya's spirit appeared and she touched his arm a second time.
It's probably left unclear on purpose, but it seems possible to me that Ardyn was carrying out the will of some Jenova-like entity, even as his human heart was filled with anger over how he was treated. Perhaps he realized it. Perhaps he had even fought it. Perhaps the human side of him was ready to die, but the daemon side embodying the Starscourge was not.
Though there are bits of Kefka and Kuja in Ardyn (retainer to the emperor of an aggressive machine-dominated empire; outsider who influenced a royal figure's thirst for power, and had them manufacture humanoid manifestations of arcane energy; theatrical mannerisms and speech), I definitely see more of Sephiroth.
Which brings me back to the connections I've previously drawn between Ardyn and Sephiroth with additional thoughts. Not only were both once hailed as heroes only to later feel they had been supplanted of their rightful place in the world by traitors, but both also came to literally embody an alien influence seeking to contaminate their world even as they simultaneously carried out elaborate plots of petty revenge against the protagonist.
Like Sephiroth, Ardyn was so corrupted by this alien influence that he not only couldn't join with Eos's river of souls without first being cleansed, but one also has to wonder if his very actions weren't being influenced on some level by what had happened to his body.
For an example of what I mean, when Luna touches him in Chapter 9 and heals a little of the corruption within him, he reacts with a harsh smack. Was that simple contempt or the influence within him reacting defensively? The way his face contorts, I wonder. Luna's own words to him there imply she recognized him as a victim as well, and as he walked away from her, he looked at where she touched him as though deep in thought.
I'm then reminded of how his spirit reacted when Noct finally crossed over to put him to rest. As he was dying at Noctis's hand in Insomnia, Ardyn seemed at peace with his passing and respectful toward Noctis. But in the spirit realm, after initially taking off his hat in a seemingly friendly gesture to Noctis, Ardyn's head suddenly thrashed violently and he seemed overcome by something forcing its way to the surface. His face changed a second time -- on this occasion, blatantly twisting into his daemon visage. His thrashing became even more violent after Lunafreya's spirit appeared and she touched his arm a second time.
It's probably left unclear on purpose, but it seems possible to me that Ardyn was carrying out the will of some Jenova-like entity, even as his human heart was filled with anger over how he was treated. Perhaps he realized it. Perhaps he had even fought it. Perhaps the human side of him was ready to die, but the daemon side embodying the Starscourge was not.
Though there are bits of Kefka and Kuja in Ardyn (retainer to the emperor of an aggressive machine-dominated empire; outsider who influenced a royal figure's thirst for power, and had them manufacture humanoid manifestations of arcane energy; theatrical mannerisms and speech), I definitely see more of Sephiroth.
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Joe
I KEEP MY IDEALS
- AKA
- Joe, Arcana
One other thing worth pointing out is that, when this happensTres said:
we see Ardyn's expression grow somber and serious for a moment before he smacks her. Perhaps the only time Ardyn ever dons a genuinely serious expression.
I read a theory/tidbit somewhere that during this moment Ardyn is reminiscing on his own history in healing the Starscourge. It may still be that a part of him still wants to 'save the world' but his motivations have become so twisted since then.
Just a thought
I read a theory/tidbit somewhere that during this moment Ardyn is reminiscing on his own history in healing the Starscourge. It may still be that a part of him still wants to 'save the world' but his motivations have become so twisted since then.
Just a thought
ForceStealer
Double Growth
@Tres:
Thanks again bby And your analysis is interesting too. Outwardly he still absolutely puts me in mind of Kefka and Kuja what with his theatrics and general hatred (rather than Sephiroth's more calculated certitude in his own godhood). Either way though, taking cues from the series' three best villains is by no means a bad move for a Final Fantasy game. It would just have helped for more of it to actually be IN the game.
And your analysis is interesting too. Outwardly he still absolutely puts me in mind of Kefka and Kuja what with his theatrics and general hatred (rather than Sephiroth's more calculated certitude in his own godhood). Either way though, taking cues from the series' three best villains is by no means a bad move for a Final Fantasy game. It would just have helped for more of it to actually be IN the game.
Ryuman
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Pretty fake sounding, like whoever wrote it didn't even pay attention to the story in the game (Or, seeing as this is 4Chan, they are intentionally trolling). Discrepancies include
Starscourge came via meteor, not Ifrit's corpse- and it was part of the cause of the Old war, not a result of it. Also, as confusing as Ardyn's backstory is I don't think he and the "Jealous King" (As he puts it in that cutscene, implied to be 'Izunia') were ever meant to be relatives.
Speaking of, having played the game with JP audio I wonder if the Japanese dialogue is any clearer in this scene. I know that some other localisations mention the meteor that brought the Scourge where the English does not.
Anyways, came here to post about the story obviously. It would be an understatement to say I'm pretty disappointed that the game had to turn out like this. Not only was it changed from Nomura and Nojima's original concept, it doesn't really seem like Tabata could accomplish what he wanted to either, going off from his trailers 2014-onwards containing several scenes not feaured in the final game. The 'Dawn' trailer is a pretty big offender since pretty much 0% is used.
The Twilight Mexican
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No need. Here's a video and a transcription of what Ardyn says in the scene where
he's talking to Noctis about ages past:
王様は違うな やっぱり触れるんだ
それはそれは 大昔の話
特効薬のない 流行り病が蔓延した
元凶は 寄生虫だった
その病に冒された者は
化け物とみなされ 殺された
当時 ルシスにひとりの男がいた
自分の身体に病を吸い取り
ひとりで病人たちを救っていた男が
が、まだクリスタルに選ばれていなかった王は
その 人々を救える 唯一の男を殺してしまった
化け物呼ばわりしてな
The official English translation is a pretty good match for it:
"Unharmed by the Light. The Chosen King indeed. Allow me to regale you with a tale. In an age long past, an incurable scourge ravaged mankind. A tiny menace that twisted men into monsters, the likes of which you've seen. In Lucis lived a savior that could cure the afflicted. His body would come to host myriad daemons, that countless lives be spared. But a jealous king, one not yet chosen by the Crystal, ostracized and demonized this healer of the people. Making a true monster of him. I gave you my name earlier, but you should know it was not the name given to me at birth. Ardyn Lucis Caelum is my proper name. You'll never guess whose name Izunia was."
I like the elegance of the localization better than this more straightforward translation I'm doing here:
"The King is different. As expected, of course. A tale of very long ago. A plague without remedy became widespread. The culprit was a parasite. Those afflicted with the disease were seen as monsters and killed. At that time, there was a man in Lucis who alone was absorbing the plague into his own body and saving the sick. However, a king not yet chosen by the Crystal killed that only man who could save the people. Denouncing him as a monster. My first name ... is my real name. However ... not my surname. Ardyn Lucis Caelum is my proper name. Ah, I wonder whose surname was Izunia—"
I know the German localization had Ardyn outright say the Starscourge originated from the meteor during this scene, as we can see around the four-minute mark in this video:
----
Es war einmal vor longer Zeit ...
... eine Welt, die von einer unheilbaren Plage heirngesucht wurde - ein kleines Mitbringsel des Meteors ... Dunkle Parasite befielen Eos und verwandeiten ihre Wirte in seenlose Monster.
"Once upon a time ... ... A world that was haunted by an incurable plague -- a small souvenir of the meteor ... Dark parasites attacked Eos and transformed their hosts into innocent monsters."
----
But that appears to be quite the liberty taken with the translation, even if it's just putting two and two together.
On a related note, I still find that supposed leak of Ultimania details unlikely to be true. Not just because it seems so obvious that the meteor is meant to be the source of the Starscourge, but also because one detail claimed in that passage was blatantly wrong: Ardyn's name was not erased. In Chapter 14, Noctis can have the following conversation with Talcott after they reach Hammerhead:
----
Talcott: “The chancellor’s still around, though…in Insomnia. Nobody who saw him had any clue what he might have been up to, but their stories piqued Ignis’s curiosity. I ended up helping Ignis look into the matter—digging through old records, even joining him on trips to the royal tombs.”
Noctis: "Royally roped into it."
Talcott: "It's cool—I'm a bit of a history buff myself. But we did discover something pretty weird."
Noctis: "Hm?"
Talcott: “While we were poring over all those ancient texts, one name caught our eye: Ardyn’s. Apparently he was hailed as a savior, healing all those who were ravaged by daemons… ....only to end up branded a daemon himself—a dubious charge, I’d say. By all accounts, he was just as human as you and me.”
----
So, I have my doubts about the authenticity of that "excerpt" for that reason already, but I will admit I just can't wrap my head around the notion that the Starscourge came from Ifrit's corpse. We know he helped spread the parasite, yes, but I really don't think he created it.
There's no obvious correlation between Ifrit's elemental affinity and the parasite as far as I can tell. For that matter, would it make sense that the full power of the Crystal -- a power which Bahamut described as "a power greater than even that of the Six" -- is needed to quell the power of just one of the Six?
I may yet be proven wrong, but I just don't see it.
王様は違うな やっぱり触れるんだ
それはそれは 大昔の話
特効薬のない 流行り病が蔓延した
元凶は 寄生虫だった
その病に冒された者は
化け物とみなされ 殺された
当時 ルシスにひとりの男がいた
自分の身体に病を吸い取り
ひとりで病人たちを救っていた男が
が、まだクリスタルに選ばれていなかった王は
その 人々を救える 唯一の男を殺してしまった
化け物呼ばわりしてな
The official English translation is a pretty good match for it:
"Unharmed by the Light. The Chosen King indeed. Allow me to regale you with a tale. In an age long past, an incurable scourge ravaged mankind. A tiny menace that twisted men into monsters, the likes of which you've seen. In Lucis lived a savior that could cure the afflicted. His body would come to host myriad daemons, that countless lives be spared. But a jealous king, one not yet chosen by the Crystal, ostracized and demonized this healer of the people. Making a true monster of him. I gave you my name earlier, but you should know it was not the name given to me at birth. Ardyn Lucis Caelum is my proper name. You'll never guess whose name Izunia was."
I like the elegance of the localization better than this more straightforward translation I'm doing here:
"The King is different. As expected, of course. A tale of very long ago. A plague without remedy became widespread. The culprit was a parasite. Those afflicted with the disease were seen as monsters and killed. At that time, there was a man in Lucis who alone was absorbing the plague into his own body and saving the sick. However, a king not yet chosen by the Crystal killed that only man who could save the people. Denouncing him as a monster. My first name ... is my real name. However ... not my surname. Ardyn Lucis Caelum is my proper name. Ah, I wonder whose surname was Izunia—"
I know the German localization had Ardyn outright say the Starscourge originated from the meteor during this scene, as we can see around the four-minute mark in this video:
----
Es war einmal vor longer Zeit ...
... eine Welt, die von einer unheilbaren Plage heirngesucht wurde - ein kleines Mitbringsel des Meteors ... Dunkle Parasite befielen Eos und verwandeiten ihre Wirte in seenlose Monster.
"Once upon a time ... ... A world that was haunted by an incurable plague -- a small souvenir of the meteor ... Dark parasites attacked Eos and transformed their hosts into innocent monsters."
----
But that appears to be quite the liberty taken with the translation, even if it's just putting two and two together.
On a related note, I still find that supposed leak of Ultimania details unlikely to be true. Not just because it seems so obvious that the meteor is meant to be the source of the Starscourge, but also because one detail claimed in that passage was blatantly wrong: Ardyn's name was not erased. In Chapter 14, Noctis can have the following conversation with Talcott after they reach Hammerhead:
----
Talcott: “The chancellor’s still around, though…in Insomnia. Nobody who saw him had any clue what he might have been up to, but their stories piqued Ignis’s curiosity. I ended up helping Ignis look into the matter—digging through old records, even joining him on trips to the royal tombs.”
Noctis: "Royally roped into it."
Talcott: "It's cool—I'm a bit of a history buff myself. But we did discover something pretty weird."
Noctis: "Hm?"
Talcott: “While we were poring over all those ancient texts, one name caught our eye: Ardyn’s. Apparently he was hailed as a savior, healing all those who were ravaged by daemons… ....only to end up branded a daemon himself—a dubious charge, I’d say. By all accounts, he was just as human as you and me.”
----
So, I have my doubts about the authenticity of that "excerpt" for that reason already, but I will admit I just can't wrap my head around the notion that the Starscourge came from Ifrit's corpse. We know he helped spread the parasite, yes, but I really don't think he created it.
There's no obvious correlation between Ifrit's elemental affinity and the parasite as far as I can tell. For that matter, would it make sense that the full power of the Crystal -- a power which Bahamut described as "a power greater than even that of the Six" -- is needed to quell the power of just one of the Six?
I may yet be proven wrong, but I just don't see it.
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Ryuman
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Thank you very much for putting that together. So the meteor addition is just a liberty then... Obvious as that detail may be, anyway. The real Ultimania will surely make this more clear.
That's the kind of thing I look forward to most i the Ultimania. Ardyn, Starscourge and any potential Versus tidbits like
Human ninja Umbra
The Twilight Mexican
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I haven't been able to find any translations or scans so far, but it was due out today, so hopefully it won't be long.
Lex
Administrator
For someone who hasn't even played the game I'm pleasantly surprised to discover how invested you seem to be in the story Tres. Thanks for the analysis. Really weirds me out that you're thinking about it/ discussing it in this level of detail when you have no desire to even play the game XD.
The Twilight Mexican
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Kuja9001
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Ryuman
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Am I the only one that simply doesn't understand the position that so many people seem to have that
It just doesn't make sense to me. I never got the sense that Ardyn sought that kind of end. Did anyone here get that impression?
Ardyn wanted to die? This to me feels like the complete antithesis to Ardyn's character and goal. Yes, he wanted Noctis to be the true King, yes he wanted to end the line of Lucis- but I don't think fulfilling the prophecy was his choice of means. Ardyn was demonised by Izunia and forsaken by the Gods. The last thing I think he would want is to complete their plans and prove them right all along. He wanted to kill Noctis as King to stick it to those asshole Gods and live in some sort of satisfaction for what I guess would be all eternity. Ardyn losing to Noctis as King represents total humiliation before the Gods who had betrayed him all those years ago...
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
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Reading through the last few pages of that thread, I think "Sorry, I don't know the details" is going to be the next derisive meme for FF/SE.
The new "Please be excited" or "As long as it looks cool."And apparently there was going to be a General Saphiroth while Verstael was going to be named Professor Hajo?? Double you tee eff.
I can see it. Like I've touched on, I think there were two things guiding Ardyn: His genuine bitterness over how he was mistreated and the parasite infesting his body. It just so happened that both could be addressed by the same plan up to a point.
The whole thing with letting Noct get his full power before fighting him was actually a threat to the Starscourge, but a risk Ardyn was willing to take. It was also the only way Ardyn could be permanently killed -- by the Lucian king acting with the full power of the Crystal.
Ardyn was either going to finally die and be at peace while the last Lucian king also died or kill that last king while the world slowly died. Either way, he won. And if that translator's note from Kuja9001's post pans out as correct, Ardyn may have even not fought to win in the end so that he could finally die.
I do wonder if, on some level, he wasn't happy with the Starscourge and wanted to see it undone. He certainly set events in motion to end it that otherwise would not have taken place -- and again, either way, the line of Lucis was done.
The whole thing with letting Noct get his full power before fighting him was actually a threat to the Starscourge, but a risk Ardyn was willing to take. It was also the only way Ardyn could be permanently killed -- by the Lucian king acting with the full power of the Crystal.
Ardyn was either going to finally die and be at peace while the last Lucian king also died or kill that last king while the world slowly died. Either way, he won. And if that translator's note from Kuja9001's post pans out as correct, Ardyn may have even not fought to win in the end so that he could finally die.
I do wonder if, on some level, he wasn't happy with the Starscourge and wanted to see it undone. He certainly set events in motion to end it that otherwise would not have taken place -- and again, either way, the line of Lucis was done.