FFXV story/spoiler discussion thread.

[Tetsujin]

Wait, I'm reading Iris is only 15? I thought she was Noctis' age?

...I swear I didn't know, officer

 

[Ryuman]

Am I the only one that simply doesn't understand the position that so many people seem to have that

Spoiler

Ardyn wanted to die? This to me feels like the complete antithesis to Ardyn's character and goal. Yes, he wanted Noctis to be the true King, yes he wanted to end the line of Lucis- but I don't think fulfilling the prophecy was his choice of means. Ardyn was demonised by Izunia and forsaken by the Gods. The last thing I think he would want is to complete their plans and prove them right all along. He wanted to kill Noctis as King to stick it to those asshole Gods and live in some sort of satisfaction for what I guess would be all eternity. Ardyn losing to Noctis as King represents total humiliation before the Gods who had betrayed him all those years ago...

It just doesn't make sense to me. I never got the sense that Ardyn sought that kind of end. Did anyone here get that impression?

Spoiler

I can see it. Like I've touched on, I think there were two things guiding Ardyn: His genuine bitterness over how he was mistreated and the parasite infesting his body. It just so happened that both could be addressed by the same plan up to a point.

The whole thing with letting Noct get his full power before fighting him was actually a threat to the Starscourge, but a risk Ardyn was willing to take. It was also the only way Ardyn could be permanently killed -- by the Lucian king acting with the full power of the Crystal.

Ardyn was either going to finally die and be at peace while the last Lucian king also died or kill that last king while the world slowly died. Either way, he won. And if that translator's note from Kuja9001's post pans out as correct, Ardyn may have even not fought to win in the end so that he could finally die.

I do wonder if, on some level, he wasn't happy with the Starscourge and wanted to see it undone. He certainly set events in motion to end it that otherwise would not have taken place -- and again, either way, the line of Lucis was done.

I mean, I suppose if you rationalise it that way. I definitely understand the mentality that it works out for him either way, it's just that I never felt like he would want that. You've got a good way of reconciling it but I don't think that interpretation is for me. Although, as you say, that Ultimania tidbit may prove crucial to this discussion.

Edit:

Wait, I'm reading Iris is only 15? I thought she was Noctis' age?

When watching the Brotherhood episode with her made it clear to me that she was younger than him, but 15 is a couple more years off than I imagined.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Wait, I'm reading Iris is only 15? I thought she was Noctis' age?

...I swear I didn't know, officer

I knew. And I didn't care.

Actually, I didn't know precisely how much younger she was than Noctis, but I thought it was obvious in "Brotherhood" that it might be by as much as 3-5 years, just as Noctis was obviously much younger than Luna.

 

[Kuja9001]

Beware huge ass image

Spoiler

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Hellz yeah, thanks! I shall get to work on that as soon as I can.

 

[Blade]

Tabata, ugh, I swear I hate Necrophiliacs.

Why is Japanese storytelling so twistedly morbid?

 

[Kuja9001]

Tabata, ugh, I swear I hate Necrophiliacs.

Why is Japanese storytelling so twistedly morbid?

He has a hard on for getting rid of the protagonists at the end of their games.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Okay, looking into things, I'm finding that someone on tumblr who goes by superespresso has been posting some Ultimania pictures they've found on Japanese sites along with some very rough translations. For example, that page about the gods:

The gods of the ‘six’ were mentioned in myth of Eos. They are closely related to the royal family. The ring of light was made by the Six and handed over as a generous gift as proof of the king. Very few people can speak to the gods and it takes a messenger to appreciate their language, which can not be understood by ordinary people. The battle of the gods traces back and is said to have broken out over a betrayal of the god Ifrit, but further details are not widely known.

This translation is essentially correct (with some words omitted here and there), but you can tell they're not used to attempting this sort of thing. I don't want to sound like I'm speaking badly of superespresso, as they're totally fucking awesome for making every effort to bring as much of this stuff as possible to their fellow fans. I'm just saying treat their translations (and summaries in particular) with caution for now because I have already seen misinformation spreading.

For instance, that whole thing about Tabata supposedly saying "I don't know the details" when asked about Ifrit's betrayal of the other gods? That's something they misinterpreted from this page. They're treating this passage as though Tabata typed it up and it's said in his own voice. Obviously neither of those things are the case.

Ultimania passages tend to be written from an in-universe perspective, so they're going to say things like "It is said that" or "the details are unknown" or "[blank] remains a complete mystery," even if something somewhere else explains it. And even if nothing elsewhere in the book does explain it, a passage like this is no indication the developers don't have an idea about it, because, again, Ultimanias tend to be written with a voice that knows only slightly more than the common person inhabiting that world.

For the sake of further accuracy, what superespresso refers to in their translation above as "the ring of light" is "the Ring of the Lucii" in the English localization, what they have as "messenger" should be "Oracle," and "the battle of the gods" is what the English localization named "the Great War of Old."

There does look to be some juicy stuff in some of the pictures on their tumblr (stuff about the ending and the transition of the plot from Versus XIII to XV), which I'll try to get to tomorrow if work allows.

What I really want to get ahold of, though, is a better picture (a scan preferably) of the History of Eos pages. Looks like a timeline. I'm pissed that all we have of that is a shit quality photo. =P

 

[Superespresso]

Hey! I'm the one posting translations. They are extremely rough and I haven't actually lived in Japan in years, so I'm really sorry. I never meant them to blow up as much as they did I was just rough translating for a couple friends and then everything got out of proportion. I can't wait for y'alls take on all this. I've been using you guys as a resource for years.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

For what it's worth, even though I usually go ahead and post them, I never feel completely confident in my own translations until another person familiar with the language has looked at it and either said "good job" or "what the hell is this supposed to be?" And that might happen years after the fact. There's stuff that I'm sure will come back to haunt me as I lay dying.

 

[Superespresso]

For what it's worth, I never feel completely confident in my own translations until another person familiar with the language has looked at it and either said "good job" or "what the hell is this supposed to be?" Like, there's stuff I did years ago that I know now must be terrible, and I'm sure will come back to haunt me as I lay dying.

Which is funny all things considered. You can read it just fine but when you look at it in english it's like "this isn't remotely close."

Anywho nice to meet y'all. Longtime lurker (I watched all the crisis core stuff go up). Officially in over my head and seeking refuge. I've got Ardyn and History of Eos pages on their way I'll likely just throw here.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Which is funny all things considered. You can read it just fine but when you look at it in english it's like "this isn't remotely close."

Oh, yeah. That happens to me a lot. It's like "How do I properly convey this without creating the longest run-on sentence in the history of the English language, but without forcing a period in there that implies two different sentences? And how do I make all 12 of these adjectives or other descriptions fit while still getting the key idea across??"

I love playing with words, so it's fun, but it can also be more frustrating and take longer than the initial "What does this say?" discovery.

 

[Superespresso]

Which is funny all things considered. You can read it just fine but when you look at it in english it's like "this isn't remotely close."

Oh, yeah. That happens to me a lot. It's like "How do I properly convey this without creating the longest run-on sentence in the history of the English language, but without forcing a period in there that implies two different sentences? And how do I make all 12 of these adjectives or other descriptions fit while still getting the key idea across??"

I love playing with words, so it's fun, but it can also be more frustrating and take longer than the initial "What does this say?" discovery.

That's exactly it. I was sitting there last night after being awake for 30 hours over the corpses thing because it literally says "dead body" but I had twenty people trying to rip my throat out over it. The entire commentary is just a mess of words so I essentially just said "the heck with it im google translate now" and wrote literally.

Wait you're squall of seed??? I know you. We've talked in the past. Small world.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Oh, sweet. Well, hello again.

 

[Superespresso]

So this was one thing that has my jimmies slightly rustled. I didn't want to really talk about it anywhere because when it comes to FF7 I keep my mouth firmly closed.

My translation along with 2 other peoples was :

The character of “SAF” written on the Imperial Army ’s landing boats serve as a mark representing the general command of “Safay Roth,” who was supposed to appear at first in the game. He was cut out during development, but the letter is left “to honor the famous generals that existed” Proceeding this, Ardyn’s position was added as villain.

What the heck did I miss because that can't possibly be right.

 

[Kuja9001]

I wouldn't put it past SE, they've been trying to recreate seph in some form for a while now.

My man Caius(they wanted his theme to surpass OWA).

Ardyn(Hyped him as surpassing previous villains or something).

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Okay, let's see.

----
帝国軍の揚陸艇などに書かれている「SAF」の文字は、当初登場する予定だったサフェイロス将軍の部隊を表すマークでした。彼は登場しなくなりましたが、文字は「かつて存在した名高い将軍を讃えている」という設定で残しています。あと、アーデンの役職は、悪役だからという理由で宰相にしました。宰相って、そういうイメージがあります。

The "SAF" letters inscribed on the imperial army's dropships[/landing boats], etc. are a marker representing the troops of a General Safeiroth[/Sapheiroth], who was supposed to appear at first. He no longer appears, but the letters remain within the world setting as something of a "tribute to a celebrated general who once existed." Also, Ardyn is the chancellor because of his role as the villain. That's kind of the chancellor image.
----


Sorry to see, by the way, that Dualshockers is running with your stuff. It's not like you didn't warn folks not to take anything as 100%.

I hope they gave that xXShuyaXx person a chance to clean up their translations first, but I'm guessing they didn't since they didn't speak to you.

 

[Superespresso]

The noise I made when someone sent this to me was one of pure terror.

 

[Tetsujin]

I wouldn't put it past SE, they've been trying to recreate seph in some form for a while now.

Well, Ardyn does have a black wing sleeve in Kingsglaive...

Apparently Roberto Ferrari added that with Ardyn's final boss transformation in mind.

Spoiler

You know, the one that got cut

 

[Superespresso]

I wouldn't put it past SE, they've been trying to recreate seph in some form for a while now.

Well, Ardyn does have a black wing sleeve in Kingsglaive...

Apparently Roberto Ferrari added that with Ardyn's final boss transformation in mind.

Spoiler

You know, the one that got cut

The real interesting thing about that design is the side he has the wing on. Sephiroths is on the other side. I'm hoping there's something cheeky in the ultimania about this.

 

[Superespresso]

Sorry to double post, but should I start a new thread for ultimania stuff?

 

[Lex]

Feel free

Also @info, this would be a good opportunity for us to use the new site to publish our own (accurate) article about this information. Any takers?

 

[Superespresso]

Feel free

Also @info, this would be a good opportunity for us to use the new site to publish our own (accurate) article about this information. Any takers?

Since I have already put my foot in my mouth I'd love to help if that is okay.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

We'll make it a team effort.

 

[Ryuman]

Okay, let's see.

----
帝国軍の揚陸艇などに書かれている「SAF」の文字は、当初登場する予定だったサフェイロス将軍の部隊を表すマークでした。彼は登場しなくなりましたが、文字は「かつて存在した名高い将軍を讃えている」という設定で残しています。あと、アーデンの役職は、悪役だからという理由で宰相にしました。宰相って、そういうイメージがあります。

The "SAF" letters inscribed on the imperial army's dropships[/landing boats], etc. are a marker representing the troops of a General Safeiroth[/Sapheiroth], who was supposed to appear at first. He no longer appears, but the letters remain within the world setting as something of a "tribute to a celebrated general who once existed." Also, Ardyn is the chancellor because of his role as the villain. That's kind of the chancellor image.

Ah... So it's not that the removal of this 'Safeiroth' fellow bumped up Ardyn's role to Villain, but rather his position as Chancellor is because that is the kind of job a villain would have. Good, that solves one headache of mine.

Anywho, regardless of any errors made, I'd like to thank you contributing your efforts and getting the ball rolling, Superespresso! I only hope the internet will move on from what it read first (As rare as such behaviour can be). An article on the site would go a long way, so I think Lex has the right idea.