FINAL FANTASY VII REBIRTH ANNOUNCED

[Odysseus]

There's ever crisis now too

 

[Makoeyes987]

I know for me personally, that it would be so much fucking easier, more comfortable and just.... Pleasant if this were a straightforward remake of FFVII.

But at the same time... I don't think I'd be as engaged or interested in such a capacity as I am now. Nor would I be as captivated, or immersed within the narrative. I'd be far more comfortably removed from the story. Sephiroth and his bullshit hasn't carried any tension for me since 2004, until now. Which is saying something.

It's frightening and incredibly amusing the writers have been able to so far hold this kind of controlled tension within their story like this, which is ultimately something very few remakes are capable of pulling off. That's a very effective creative development and something far more meaningful than a rote retelling. However, it's also scarier because you really don't quite know what's going to happen. You may know something(s), but not everything.

I get why this doesn't count as a "remake" as a way some are saying because it isn't. This is an adaption where things are not as they seem, and there's a obfuscated direction that adds uncertainty to what's going on. And that's not inherently pleasant for everyone going into this.

But I think there's an inherent tension and conflict in media between wanting entertainment that has genuine creative meaning and authenticity, versus "content" that exists to finger nostalgia. It's a bit too on the nose how Ever Crisis, the other, truer Remake, is a straight up gacha game that exists to sell you the same cliff notes stories of FFVII with some minor cosmetic changes.

I ultimately believe that this Remake saga will exist to retell FFVII's narrative in a different way that stays true and consistent to it's core themes. It might go in different directions thanks to it's in-universe and creative reasoning, but it's "FFVII-ness" will not be erased. That's the end point of it all.

There's a Ship of Theseus equation at work here, with how much they change and leave the same in the end, but I'm trusting them to do what they do in an effective way. The writers daring to challenge core concepts of the story, like Cloud remembering Zack (a revelation that caused me heartburn upon realizing that's who he was talking to) is frightening. But, it also got me thinking harder about how it can explore this theme of "identity." That's interesting and extremely creative and bold. I like it, and as long as it boldly plays with the narrative while sticking to it's core fundamental themes, I think it will be as much of an FFVII as the OG. Just a different adaption that shakes and forces you to be fully engaged and aware of it's story.

 

[MelodicEnigma]

Haha I'll take "nothing to do with the themes of the OG" as something not meant to be literal, though I think there's something equally as unproductive and impractical with the use of staying 'true/faithful' that is also stubbornly buzzing around on all subjects. My initial thought, it's an (expected) misspoken thing to say it has "nothing to do with the themes of the OG" when otherwise, the majority of the storytelling components necessary to generate the OG's themes is still present within the Remake. You still have the same characters, their arcs, the setting and context, etc. that generated those themes in the first place, and unless those things completely deviated, then they're not gone or unaffiliated. The wider concept of "Fate" in all it's glory is additive, not a replacement. A better criticism would be that it's distracting from the other aspects of the story and adding too much—which is maybe what they meant to say. Which, I don't agree with, but I can accept that someone can feel that way from the Midgar section alone because long time fans inherently went into this with their own expectations and ideal limitations of how a retold story should/could unfold. I mean, I can definitely say I didn't expect a Whisper Darkside Heartless to show up, but it didn't break my ceiling of what I understand could be done creatively for a retelling.

Recently playing through the OG again, it just severely hits that the Remake has SO much more in Midgar than that of the OG, in a way that it's somewhat of an imbalanced comparison inherently in all aspects. If we're going by what exists now to evaluate, the Remake has mostly (in a literal sense) done more, not less. Whether that's satisfying, however, is just up to the good ol' YMMV and criticism and/or praise of execution.

 

[Fiz]

That's again only one person. The villain. Sephiroth.

Aerith's not from the future. I know some people theorize that, but she isn't. Her "knowledge" of things that are outside her experience comes from her being a Cetra and being in proximity to the Planet's entities that apparently hold knowledge of how the OG of FFVII played out. She's not a time traveler. That's how it is explained and detailed.

And ultimately this isn't a carry over or continuation of FFVII. That's not what this is. This is an adaption of those events playing out in a different way within itself. How the Remake is "canon" to the OG remains to be seen. That's another ambiguity it plays with. But the OG is done. This isn't carrying over some unresolved narrative or something from FFVII. This IS FFVII, in a literal different way.

I don't know. I have a theory (because, of course I do).

I've said a few times that I think both Aerith and Sephiroth exist as entities outside of the normal living world, and are in some way their AC/post AC counterparts, the OG events have already occurred and this is taking place post compilation through some kind of temporal mechanism (time travel, time loop, multiverse).

Watching the teaser trailer a few times, I think perhaps where the dark feather relates to Sephiroth, I think the white feather might relate to Aerith. Rebirth could be referring to Aerith (or both Aerith and Sephiroth) being reborn anew and maybe as "one winged angels" - one dark and one light which thematically fits with these two characters. I don't think its referring to Genesis or anything like that. Although I expect him to appear. So they've already died, and now they're reborn as something more than they were before, attempting to achieve some even greater goal than OG.

Also, the line with Zack at the end about "failing you", thats a weird one. I still think he is going to be intersecting with the others.

 

[Fiz]

I know for me personally, that it would be so much fucking easier, more comfortable and just.... Pleasant if this were a straightforward remake of FFVII.

But at the same time... I don't think I'd be as engaged or interested in such a capacity as I am now. Nor would I be as captivated, or immersed within the narrative. I'd be far more comfortably removed from the story. Sephiroth and his bullshit hasn't carried any tension for me since 2004, until now. Which is saying something.

It's frightening and incredibly amusing the writers have been able to so far hold this kind of controlled tension within their story like this, which is ultimately something very few remakes are capable of pulling off. That's a very effective creative development and something far more meaningful than a rote retelling. However, it's also scarier because you really don't quite know what's going to happen. You may know something(s), but not everything.

I totally agree. If this was business as usual, I'd just be going through the motions with it and it would be cool and everything. But this is something else, I enjoy trying to figure it out and its now more intense.

I get why this doesn't count as a "remake" as a way some are saying because it isn't. This is an adaption where things are not as they seem, and there's a obfuscated direction that adds uncertainty to what's going on. And that's not inherently pleasant for everyone going into this.

I think this is a full on sequel, but in a groundhog day that allows it to be a remake at the same time. But, ultimately a sequel which kills two birds with one stone because people wanted an FF7-2. I think this is it.

Kat Bailey’s argument about losing the themes of the original and being self indulgent are logically incoherent; Remake is a story about remaking the world that birthed it. It necessarily must use the existence of the source material as the foundation from which any sort of story can be told. To ask them to be less self-reverential is just an exercise in redundancy. The themes of FFVII have already been explored in, guess what? FFVII! The Remake project is exploring meta-concepts that people who believe in nothing but material reality have a hard time comprehending. I love that.

My issue here is that unless shes played the entire thing, shes making a huge ass assumption. The themes can be preserved while doing new things, they can be tackled differently and still be the same themes. I wonder whether the themes will be tackled retrospectively in some way. Like an examine the past to find a way forward with the new.

 

[cold_spirit]

Hmm, the convo has moved on, but I wouldn't recommend singling out one person's opinion on social media a nd exposing it to a whole community. I mean I like to think we're a cool group, but this is exactly how severe trolling occurs in other circles.

If you ever have something to say, say it yourself that way we can troll you!

 

[looneymoon]

well I think she makes more sense than you lot

 

[Roundhouse]

My thoughts on all this:

I actually WANT remake to make changes, the more the better. I love the original game, so the more differences there are, the less 'replacable' it can be for people. Whether this is a sequel or not is a tricky area, I guess it could be considered a sequel from an 'outside the narrative' sense (is that what you people are always describing as 'Doylist' or whatever?) because it clearly highlights scenes like Aerith's death, the reversal of Zack's sacrifice, etc, and toys with our expectations and assumptions.

It's a weird work, so I can see why people struggle to define it. Some have taken to calling it a 'requel', a hybrid of a sequel and remake. Personally, it reminds me of the whole Eva Rebuild project, but we won't really know until the whole thing is done. I do get the feeling it will feel like a Rebuild once it's over, though, because it keeps hinting at going off the rails. They are trying to walk a line between being faithful and innovating, and miraculously they are actually managing it really well thus far, but I dunno if they can sustain that all the way to the end, or if they even want to...

/edit

Cold:

I was worried about that a bit, but I thought about it and realised that this isn't a hateful community + I posted it with the context of supporting her statement rather than attacking it or inviting ridicule. You're right though, I do worry about that kind of thing, so I may avoid it in future.

 

[Fiz]

Hmm, the convo has moved on, but I wouldn't recommend singling out one person's opinion on social media a nd exposing it to a whole community. I mean I like to think we're a cool group, but this is exactly how severe trolling occurs in other circles.

If you ever have something to say, say it yourself that way we can troll you!

I don't think anyone was being malicious, just discussing it, and because she's part of a major gaming publication I think it's fair to discuss. Other sites can be quite unhinged and yeah, on those places, I get it. But here, neah.

 

[Smoothie King]

Hmm, the convo has moved on, but I wouldn't recommend singling out one person's opinion on social media a nd exposing it to a whole community. I mean I like to think we're a cool group, but this is exactly how severe trolling occurs in other circles.

If you ever have something to say, say it yourself that way we can troll you!

If it makes you feel any better, I am not on social media and have memberships to exactly zero other message boards. I just made a comment about how I disagree with a public figure on her opinion of FFVII Remake. And this is an FFVII Remake discussion board. I feel like worrying about severe trolling among this particular group is going from like 0 to 100.

 

[Fiz]

If it makes you feel any better, I am not on social media and have memberships to exactly zero other message boards. I just made a comment about how I disagree with a public figure on her opinion of FFVII Remake. And this is an FFVII Remake discussion board. I feel like worrying about severe trolling among this particular group is going from like 0 to 100.

I agree, I don't really see how discussing her opinion is any different to discussing someone like Tim Rogers opinion. They're professionals in gaming journalism and critique so thats just part of their job and their views are open to discussion.

This site is fairly chill and sane, if it was put on other, more unhinged, places to attract attacks then thats a whole other matter.

 

[Strangelove]

i wonder if doing a meta recontextualising or whatever of the original story would be different if there wasn't several years of additions to the original story in the years between the two

idk i am mainly just content to go along for the ride right now. no thoughts head empty

but if it does turn out to be 'rebuild of ffvii' then yes, i'm here for it. call the third game 'thrice upon a time'. go right out there, just go nuts. have a whole sequence where the graphics are a 4k high def rendition of the original game's blocky lego characters. i want to see some wacky shit.

 

[looneymoon]

Zack and Cloud have an extended homoerotic bonding experience where they learn to play Tifa's piano

 

[MelodicEnigma]

"Gon' Gaga For You" in G#

 

[KindOfBlue]

Someday, in some universe, people will stop thinking this line is in any way convincing or productive.

Well, it’s either that or nothing. At some point people are gonna have to make peace with the fact that the remake they wanted just wasn’t the devs’ vision. I really don’t see anything productive about still being hung up over the remake being what it is at this point, and it’s gonna be a looooong next few years for people who can’t just get over that and move on if they’re that unhappy with it.

 

[Strangelove]

i do not want to admit how long it took me to make this after not using photoshop in over maybe two years (especially considering how rough it is)

 

[cold_spirit]

Ya'll I've been permanently scarred by the LTD, please understand

I think for some people, they felt wronged by the devs due to how this requel thing was disguised as the dream remake. Lied to even. And the truth is the devs aren't completely innocent. They knew what they were doing putting "Remake" on the box, then slowly building up the Whispers. Through the story itself the devs want to convince fans that maybe there's something even better than a remake out there. Personally, I think it's 100% ok for storytellers to play with expectations like that. I find it way more interesting! But others not so much.

Otherwise I've said pretty much everything I wanted to say on this discussion point in one of my own threads I'll reiterate some parts here:

Aerith then asks the main cast (and by extension, the player) to help her, but the speech is more than a plot point. It’s a plea from the developers. Anticipating the vast differences between people that will play and scrutinize Remake, the developers are stating their case. "Let us create." "Let us surprise you." This is the beating heart of Remake.

I've read the critiques that the Whispers are bad because they don't fit the source material. I mean, Spider-Man certainly didn’t start with the Spider-Verse. The One Ring had no corrupting powers originally. But now? We can’t imagine those stories without those elements. FFVII needs to be given its chance to push its boundaries as well.

For years the message we were sending had been clear: “We are not interested in progressing the story. Give us what we know.” We only looked back. Remake is the antithesis of that sentiment. Remake looks forward for us.

 

[cold_spirit]

I’d agree with it being rushed and random if there was zero build up to the last chapter but that wasn’t the case seeing as they’d been setting it up all throughout the game. Neither here nor there though, whether or not you like something boils down to opinion.

Yeah, I've always disagreed with the claim that Remake's polarizing ending "came out of nowhere." The Whispers appear in half of the game's chapters and twice as a minor boss fight before Chapter 18. Looking back at my experience, by Chapter 4 I was already figuring out that the Whisper's goal was to maintain the events of the original game. They aren't subliminal. There's real buildup that needs a payoff.

I think people who claim the ending came out of nowhere feel that way because, well, throughout the game they were putting all their effort into pretending the Whispers didn't exist at all.

In my first playthrough, because I actively engaged with them, when I got to Whisper Harbinger I was rubbing my hands together and thinking "Finally!"

 

[Wol]

Yeah, I've always disagreed with the claim that Remake's polarizing ending "came out of nowhere." The Whispers appear in half of the game's chapters and twice as a minor boss fight before Chapter 18. Looking back at my experience, by Chapter 4 I was already figuring out that the Whisper's goal was to maintain the events of the original game. They aren't subliminal. There's real buildup that needs a payoff.

I think people who claim the ending came out of nowhere feel that way because, well, throughout the game they were putting all their effort into pretending the Whispers didn't exist at all.

In my first playthrough, because I actively engaged with them, when I got to Whisper Harbinger I was rubbing my palms together and thinking "Finally!"

The amount of magic shit that happens in the final chapter alone isn't proportional. We don't have really idea of how time-shenanigans work at all, so while the ghosts alluded to something they ultimately build up to nothing at all or offered any concrete awnser or set of rules, just a KH boss. That's why everything that happens feels random and convenient (without a clear set of rules, anything can happen). Then we have the amount of insane unjustified anime skills, we can now cut trains and fly. It's just spectacular imagery without any substance or emotional gravitas.

I despise the ending because it's in clear contrast with the quality and execution of previous chapters. It's ironic that they fall apart when trying to deviate from the original in my view (honestly it's no surprise, just look at the compilation's quality compared to OG, while good it doesn't reach the same heights). I hope this trend doesn't continue.

 

[billy22]

So Q1 2024, means roughly a four year wait in-between games. A bit longer than most of us expected, but I'll give it a pass since we're going to finish at 3 parts.

I remain tepidly optimistic. I don't mind changes if they're actually good (hell house boss fight, more dialogue/scenes, etc) but I was not a fan of destiny ghosts and potential alternate timelines. We'll see I guess. I look forward to new information in the coming year.

 

[Fiz]

The amount of magic shit that happens in the final chapter alone isn't proportional. We don't have really idea of how time-shenanigans work at all, so while the ghosts alluded to something they ultimately build up to nothing at all or offered any concrete awnser or set of rules, just a KH boss. That's why everything that happens feels random and convenient (without a clear set of rules, anything can happen). Then we have the amount of insane unjustified anime skills, we can now cut trains and fly. It's just spectacular imagery without any substance or emotional gravitas.

I despise the ending because it's in clear contrast with the quality and execution of previous chapters. It's ironic that they fall apart when trying to deviate from the original in my view (honestly it's no surprise, just look at the compilation's quality compared to OG, while good it doesn't reach the same heights). I hope this trend doesn't continue.

I'm split on this because spectacle has its own quality and OG leaned into that itself. I enjoyed it for the sheer spectacle of it all, but yeah, it does disconnect from the rest of the story.

So Q1 2024, means roughly a four year wait in-between games. A bit longer than most of us expected, but I'll give it a pass since we're going to finish at 3 parts.

I remain tepidly optimistic. I don't mind changes if they're actually good (hell house boss fight, more dialogue/scenes, etc) but I was not a fan of destiny ghosts and potential alternate timelines. We'll see I guess. I look forward to new information in the coming year.

I'm still holding out hope that it might be something other than multiple timelines, or if we do have timelines they are compressed or something.

 

[KindOfBlue]

Meh, I chalked the crazy anime action up to the party being in the Singularity. No more ridiculous and over-the-top than the planet spawning giant monsters or the boss rush in disc 3 or Safer•Sephiroth destroying planets, imo. As far as the time and destiny stuff, I think we know what we need to know for the time being and whatever we don’t know will be revealed when it’s time for it to be revealed. We’ll see how I feel about it when all is said and done.

 

[Wol]

Meh, I chalked the crazy anime action up to the party being in the Singularity. No more ridiculous and over-the-top than the planet spawning giant monsters or the boss rush in disc 3 or Safer•Sephiroth destroying planets, imo. As far as the time and destiny stuff, I think we know what we need to know for the time being and whatever we don’t know will be revealed when it’s time for it to be revealed. We’ll see how I feel about it in when all is said and done.

Yeah but the spectacle in og escalated at a coherent pace. In remake you begin jumping debris or simply falling to jumping between floating roads and cutting trains in middle with ease lol. It goes from 0 to 100 in an absurd short time, it's not congruent to their skills five minutes before that. And then you go into 3 different dimensions and a lot of magical cryptic shit happens, it's like the developers had a sudden hangover. Way too over the top in everything, almost zero emotional depth.

 

[waw]

I'll reiterate some parts here:

I think these are all well stated. Folx shouldn't be hung up that they aren't getting a remake. Frankly, we're getting so much passion from the creators, new content, and a culmination of all their ideas, I'm loving the ride. Remake far exceeded anything I could have hoped for. I'm so glad I still get to experience the mystery and unknown certainties of when I first watched my older brothers play FF7 as a young child. I could read, but I was bad at it. I had to get good to keep up with what was going on (they wouldn't read it to me. I was around 10.) FF7 hold so much for me, emotionally, that the Remake recreating these scenes I loved and making me relive that experience, too? Yes please.

That's why everything that happens feels random and convenient (without a clear set of rules, anything can happen).
...
Then we have the amount of insane unjustified anime skills, we can now cut trains and fly.

It never felt like this to me, that it was random or convenient. In part because it's so much the norm of Advent Children. I think in a real part, I've felt every FF is crazy cinematic and over the top but the gameplay simplifies it for the experience. I figure that power is there in the Singularity, gravity is probably different, help the physics of that world are obviously different during the Singularity. It's not like we see Cloud fall to the Church and in the next scene is leaping all around the plate with fantastical abilities. He uses a grappling gun.

To me, something was obviously different in the Singularity.

Yeah but the spectacle in og escalated at a coherent pace. In remake you begin jumping debris or simply falling to jumping between floating roads and cutting trains in middle with ease lol.

I think part of this for me is that characters "leveling up" has always been a function of the gaming for me and not of the story. I never believed that Cecil is "levels" stronger during the final confrontation, only that he now has magic holy powers. It's not explicitly canon that the characters keep finding newer and more powerful weapons either. Cloud is still very nostalgic of ther Buster Sword and has a new sword, but we don't see the characters bust out a bunch of legendary weapons or something. We don't have a group of characters traveling the world and power leveling. The characters do what they can because, I feel, they could always do it. They're breaking their limits in AC but not because they leveled up over a two month period.

I appreciate that games can all at once be over the top cinematic, but also the mechanics don't bear out entirely. Shinra points a gun at Barret and he steps back. Like... we've been shot hundreds of times in our various encounters. Bullets don't hurt the party, even when they reach 0 HP. We just dump a Phoenix Down and are good to go. But they down PD Aerith in OG because there are game mechanics and there's the story.

What happens in the Singularity, to me, was just the same.

 

[Roger]

They can't go from Aerith obliterating an asteriod hurled at Cloud's head and proceed to say "yeah, so what. screw him" to Cloud saying he's tough as they take Sephiroth on mano a mano to quiet awe at the sight of the slain Midgardzolom being slain or Cloud trying to convey his strength with the cool story about fight a dragon. They are well past that now.