Final Fantasy XIII-2 (Spoiler Thread)

Fangu

Great Old One
^ I wish they could have put something in there about how long it took before Snow went looking for Lightning. In my eyes, he'd decided to stay with Serah no matter what, but when he saw how unhappy she was without Lightning there, and/or knowing anything about where she went, he decided to go look for her anyway. After all he was the only one who believed Serah's story.
 

Splintered

unsavory tart
I thought it was fitting that Snow would believe Serah more than himself and his memories. That said, what's with the Cactaur fal'cie, he's a good guy?

Also Yuel AF500 is a creepy ass child.
She hated people and wanted that they would all die.
calm down yuel. She's also the only one not to trust Caius until he agrees to let her live how she wants the last Yuel to be free, which I thought was kind of tragic. So apart from being creepy and full of hate, she's probably the one that is the most relatable.

And it explains why Caius didn't bring Yuel when he left the village. Yuel probably had wanted to stay with Noel.
 

Fangu

Great Old One
So rewatching some cutscenes I noticed that Mog and Snow share a similar fate, they both dissapears into Voids where they can see everything happening, but people can't see them. Snow is saved by a fal'Cie. Mog is saved by Lightning.

Cute quotes from summary:
She was fond of the dark-haired boy.
The boy knew Caius, and when he saw her he called out her name. He also knew another Yeul, she then knew. She wished she could be the Yeul the boy missed, but could only answer to him that she was not the one he knew. She regretted having to do it when she could see how it hurt him.
(200 AF Yeul ("Flower-Yeul")

This Yule liked to sing. Her first vision had been of a singing crystal, and a dark-haired someone in front of it. He couldn't hear the singing. Caius explained to her that people couldn't hear the crystal singing. The boy in front of the crystal was sad, and Yule wanted to sing to him to comfort him. But he was also very strong, a strength that could get him through anything.
(400 AF Yeul ("Singing Yeul"))
Which scene is she referring to here? At first I believed it was the Farseer monument in A Dying world, but 1) that isn't a crystal, and 2) when you get the Wild Artifact, Noel doesn't hear singing, but his tribespeople talking.

She hated people and wanted that they would all die. She had been an unwanted child, born to a mother who didn't care about her. She knew that her mother would also likely die when Cocoon would fall. Most people in the world would.(...) What she had seen in her first vision had been the end of the world. A boy alone, having lost everything. She wished that everyone would die so that nobody would be left alone. After that first vision she saw him together with someone, yet she knew that eventually he would be alone. She couldn't wish ill for him, she wished for him to become happy. She made a wish to her caretaker. Let the last Seeress live a normal life, she said. Let her have happiness. He agreed. In her heart, she felt that maybe she could trust this Caius Ballad just a little bit.
(500 AF Yeul ("Chaos Yeul??"))

So it's basically Chaos Yeul's wish to have the world/time end, not because she's tired of being reborn, but because the world is gonna end anyway, and instead of seeing people get picked off one by one, leaving their loved ones to grief, she wants everyone to just die. All this based on her first vision of seing Noel alone without anyone left in the world. It can seem like Caius works very hard at not killing Noel because Yeul's wish was to have the last Yeul (Noel's Yuel) be together with Noel at the end of time. Then Caius works very hard at letting the last Yuel survive. Since she can't survive naturally because the world is dying, he wants to end time to make her everlasting, along with Noel.

That's kinda romantic. (If there's any truth to it, ofc.)
 

Mwynn

Tenderness
@Splintered: I'm telling you, 500AF Yeul was creepy in a cool and relatable (as you said) way.

I find it interesting that 3AF Yeul saw Lightning as some sort of a mother figure. Yeul's relation with her families were tragic as well, and I find this really sad.

The fact that Mog's pom-pom makes its bow form automatically do a target-lock on an enemy explains a lot of how Serah is suddenly proficient with a bow. We could have assumed that she used a bow during the timeskip between XIII and XIII-2, or did Archery at school or whatever, but this canon explanation clarifies it. I also like the image of Lightning using Mog once. Cute.

She could see how the goddess Etro had come to be there, and how Etro could not understand like a human did. Etro had given powers to the first little thing, a human girl, whose soul had arrived in Valhalla. That soul hadn't sunk into the darkness like the other souls, and she had sent it to be born again and again back to the world where the rest of the humans lived. Etro did not see that she caused suffering for the girl with this action, she had only love and gentleness. She also gave powers to a man who protected the girl seeress, as she came to be known after a while, for she was constantly surrounded by war and strife and needed a companion.

This is the part I don't understand. What's wrong with Yeul's soul?

To expand on how and why Etro can't comprehend the same way as a human does:
It was because the Goddess had no use for time or senses. Because she was a human, Lightning could barely differentiate the future or the past, but the Goddess is probably not differentiating them. She was seeing and hearing everything at the same time. Conversely, the Goddess was just seeing as if it was an accepted routine and felt that there were things that she would never comprehend.

Lightning also saw herself, and how she had sinned gravely against the goddess by taking arms against another human being - she had been forced, but it was still a sin, the goddess grieved for the fallen no matter who they were. And she saw how the goddess granted the wish of herself and the other l'Cie by taking away their brands, even though they had sinned.

This part is certainly debatable. On one hand you can't really say they have intentionally sinned because it was all self defense, I mean, they were on the run in XIII and being pursued by soldiers who'd kill them without a second thought. On the other, these soldiers are humans who were strictly following orders and were under a different and false belief but also likely had families or loved ones of their own. Not only Lightning should be carrying this burden though (the other main characters should be too) but since she saw through all this at this moment she must have felt it in a heavier magnitude.

A man was standing nearby. He tried to tell her to not be there for the goddess, that the time of destruction would not be for hundreds of years yet, that she would never be able to go back to her family and friends if she stayed. But Lightning refused to go. She would stay for the goddess. She would help fend off the destruction. The man, a mere illusion, faded. Lightning stayed.

Okay who is this man I need to know now.

The entirety of Alyssa's chapter made me not like her even more, and also realize more how tragic her existence is.

Also, the award of being the most interesting Yeul of them all goes to 500AF Yeul.

Sighs deeply again for these stories not being incorporated in-game. Jun Eishima wrote these, the same author of Episode Zero and One. Can't they hire her to write the in-game story instead/have her work on it along with whoever was in charge of it?
 
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Fangu

Great Old One
I also like the image of Lightning using Mog once. Cute.
I'm reading the part about Lightning and Mog right now. Totally squee. It's so cute, the poking and all of that XD

This is the part I don't understand. What's wrong with Yeul's soul?
I see it as Etro gave powers to the first soul that arrived in Valhalla. Accidentally this was Yuel. Since she was given power, her soul didn't sink into the darkness. I might be totally wrong.

This part is certainly debatable. On one hand you can't really say they have intentionally sinned because it was all self defense, I mean, they were on the run in XIII and being pursued by soldiers who'd kill them without a second thought. On the other, these soldiers are humans who were strictly following orders and were under a different and false belief but also likely had families or loved ones of their own. Not only Lightning should be carrying this burden though (the other main characters should be too) but since she saw through all this at this moment she must have felt it in a heavier magnitude.
Well that's probably part of the 'Gods logic' - they see a killing as a sin (and grief for every death), no matter the background/ history leading to it. That's the "accepted routine".

Okay who is this man I need to know now.
Reading that in the summary I instantly thought it was Caius. I'm not at that part yet in the translation though so I don't know if there's any more information on it.

The entirety of Alyssa's chapter made me not like her even more, and also realize more how tragic her existence is.
IMO Alyssa was corrupted by fear. I like how the story emphasizes the fact that she planned out the sabotage by detail, knowing 100% what would happen. She'd tried everything else - except asking for help. Her mind was truly corrupted by her fear of death.

Sighs deeply again for these stories not being incorporated in-game. Jun Eishima wrote these, the same author of Episode Zero and One. Can't they hire her to write the in-game story instead/have her work on it along with whoever was in charge of it?
I too think she's brilliant. I'm really enjoying these translations and I'm beating myself up a little for not having read the XIII Episodes more carefully. I will now, after finishing the XIII-2 ones.
 

Splintered

unsavory tart
Reading that in the summary I instantly thought it was Caius. I'm not at that part yet in the translation though so I don't know if there's any more information on it.
I got the impression it was Caius as well. Telling her to give up because it wouldn't affect her life anyway.

This part is certainly debatable. On one hand you can't really say they have intentionally sinned because it was all self defense, I mean, they were on the run in XIII and being pursued by soldiers who'd kill them without a second thought.
Yeah I don't buy the "she sinned" either when they were not only going to kill her but going to kill her friends. Also they forced a purge of unwanted citizens just because they were close to a Pulse fal'cie, and that more than one character pointed out the purge quickly turned into a massacre, and that it might have been the original intent in the first place.

But I can see why Etros wouldn't understand, like Lightning said she simply doesn't comprehend human rational. I just don't think why Lightning would feel guilty over it. Lightning hints that she feels guilty in the game too, and I always thought that was a load of shit. Still do.

I really like Etros characterization in this, it makes me understand her weird rationalizing in the game. At first it bothered me that Etros was suppose to be this benevolent presence, but only intervened at different points in the game for the cast, when it was obvious that there were hundreds of years of l'cie suffering.

But if Etros simply doesn't grasp the concept of human suffering, and views what's going on as a fact of nature, than it makes sense she only intervened with Lightning and co+ Caius, because something in their spirit or how they acted intrigued Etros enough to "bless" them.
 

JGwinters

Lv. 1 Adventurer
I'm pretty sure the name of the apparition of a man mentioned by Lightning was never named, but there's this strong implication that it's Caius.

@Mwynn and Fangu: As for why Yeul doesn't disappear...
It's because she was the very first person to be born from Etro's blood. Etro followed from afar how she lived and was born, and her soul reached Valhalla. And when more souls eventually came to Valhalla, she noticed that the first one was different and didn't disappear, so she eventually sent her out back to the world again.

So it's not that she was given power and due to that didn't disappear, but it's because she didn't disappear that she was given power. Her not disappearing was likely due to being the first human, although it's not explicitly spelled out.
 

Mwynn

Tenderness
Oh. My. God. My theory regarding Yeul being the first human ever was true. I mean, it's not absolutely certain but still. I'm intrigued on how different her soul is with the others. Also, that small crystal on her chest... it can mean something important. I don't know.

So I was discussing stuff with Leaferian, and he made me realize one thing.

Creepy 500AF Yeul should be alive by LR. Time ended during that year in XIII-2.
 
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Fangu

Great Old One
So I was discussing stuff with Leaferian, and he made me realize one thing.

Creepy 500AF Yeul should be alive by LR. Time ended during that year in XIII-2.
Hmm. Since 700 AF Yeul will never come to exist, does that mean that it's 500 AF Yeul ("Creepy Yeul", I like that over Chaos Yeul :lol:) who eventually will be the last Yeul? The one Yeul herself wished a happy life for? PLOT TWIST
 

Mwynn

Tenderness
Hmm. Since 700 AF Yeul will never come to exist, does that mean that it's 500 AF Yeul ("Creepy Yeul", I like that over Chaos Yeul :lol:) who eventually will be the last Yeul? The one Yeul herself wished a happy life for? PLOT TWIST

Yep. Possible antagonist with good potential right here, folks.
She wished that everyone would die so that nobody would be left alone. After that first vision she saw him together with someone, yet she knew that eventually he would be alone. She couldn't wish ill for him, she wished for him to become happy. She made a wish to her caretaker. Let the last Seeress live a normal life, she said. Let her have happiness. He agreed. In her heart, she felt that maybe she could trust this Caius Ballad just a little bit.
 

Splintered

unsavory tart
Oh. My. God. My theory regarding Yeul being the first human ever was true. I mean, it's not absolutely certain but still.
No it's true, I think it's stated in one of the ultis, Hito translated it here. Only reason I remember it is that I was looking for a piece that said that Pulse/Lindzei manipulated the falcie's thoughts into desperately searching for the gods, and then hid.

oh hey some random ultimania stuff (some of this might be in the game and I just forgot/didn't get the dialogue, like Hope's)

Caius

- The magic Caius uses in the opening ("Husk of the wandering comet...") is Meteor, an ancient spell.

- Bahamut Chaos is the summon Caius obtained while he was a l'Cie, the crystal of which is in his sword. The chaos of the Unseeable has made it much stronger.

- The 'Absolute Summon', where the summoner merges with the summoned beast, was a forbidden skill handed down in the past. Originally it could only be used once, after which the summoner would die, but because Caius has the heart of Etro he is able to keep using it.

Yeul

- Yeul is 14 to 17, depending on the era. She was 15 when she died in front of Noel

- Yeul is the reincarnation of the "world's first human" who was given life when Lindzei created her and Etro gave her chaos (a heart).

Hope

- Hope's dad retired in AF10 and died shortly after.

Alyssa

- Alyssa is a mathematician.

Sazh

- One of the early ideas for Sazh had the chocobo chick growing up and flying around by grabbing hold of Sazh's head.


I didn't find that, but eventually I found the pages of everyone first seeing the ending and flipping out in rage. Back when we still believed there was a "best" ending and the one we got was the "bad ending." And thought Etros was evil. Hilarious.
 

Arianna

Holy, Personified
AKA
Katie; Seta.
Oh. My. God. My theory regarding Yeul being the first human ever was true. I mean, it's not absolutely certain but still. I'm intrigued on how different her soul is with the others. Also, that small crystal on her chest... it can mean something important. I don't know.

Hito did say that humanity was created by Lindzei.
 

Splintered

unsavory tart
Hito did say that humanity was created by Lindzei.
That part was needlessly complicated. I think it would have just been fine if they just spouted from Etros blood but oh well.

That said, it suddenly occurred to me that if Snow's focus was to fight with Serah and keep her safe, he failed his focus. Which means as of now, he should be a Cieth. If time froze, it might be different, so fantheory time: Nomura stated he just finished Snow's redesign, and if Snow had a redesign when characters like Noel haven't (unless it's a standin model), then there's probably a story reason. So I'm thinking we might see half-Cieth Snow?
 

Arianna

Holy, Personified
AKA
Katie; Seta.
All this about the humans makes me wonder: Did the fal'Cie (Lindzei) ever care about their (his) fal'Cie children?

Also, who or what is the singing crystal? I wonder if they meant the fal'Cie who was replaced by the manadrive?
 

Celesta

Pro Adventurer
^ I wish they could have put something in there about how long it took before Snow went looking for Lightning. In my eyes, he'd decided to stay with Serah no matter what, but when he saw how unhappy she was without Lightning there, and/or knowing anything about where she went, he decided to go look for her anyway. After all he was the only one who believed Serah's story.

This is addressed in the prequel novel Fragments Before. I believe Serah's alternate explanation of the events that take place after FFXIII ends in which Lightning survives the fall of caccoon and his own visions of Lightning while dreaming encourage his decision to go on a journey to find her. Actually Serah offers to join him but Snow uses the defense of "Serah you have to stay for the children" to disuade her from tagging along. It's rather manipulative but endearing. He acknowledges that although life on pulse has helped Serah learn how to hold her own in a fight, the journey will likely be dangerous and he wants to her to be safe.
 

Mwynn

Tenderness
I'll stick to the fact that humanity sprouted from Etro's blood.

And Splintered, I like your idea of half-Cieth Snow. I want a design close to Cid Lindzei Cieth form. That form was so badass imo.
 

JGwinters

Lv. 1 Adventurer
Also, who or what is the singing crystal? I wonder if they meant the fal'Cie who was replaced by the manadrive?

The singing crystal is the crystal pillar, Vanille and Fang. :)

Also, what is all this about Lindzei and humanity? All mentions I can find about Lindzei creating anything is fal'Cie and l'Cie. Anything even remotely close to that is mentions of humanity taking it upon themselves to think of Lindzei as their god, but creating...? That's all Etro's blood (body) and Etro-given chaos (heart/soul) as far as I can tell.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
Also, what is all this about Lindzei and humanity? All mentions I can find about Lindzei creating anything is fal'Cie and l'Cie. Anything even remotely close to that is mentions of humanity taking it upon themselves to think of Lindzei as their god, but creating...? That's all Etro's blood (body) and Etro-given chaos (heart/soul) as far as I can tell.

FFXIII's Ultimania Omega says that Lindzei created man "from traces once divine":

http://thelifestream.net/forums/showpost.php?p=395728&postcount=12

It may well be that Lindzei crafted Etro's remains into humans. Perhaps that's part of why she took an interest with them in the first place?
 

JGwinters

Lv. 1 Adventurer
FFXIII's Ultimania Omega says that Lindzei created man "from traces once divine":

http://thelifestream.net/forums/showpost.php?p=395728&postcount=12

It may well be that Lindzei crafted Etro's remains into humans. Perhaps that's part of why she took an interest with them in the first place?

Hmm. Weird that elsewhere they would only mention Etro in the creation process, but then identify Lindzei as the Maker intended by the Analects in the UO. Weirder still, that they wouldn't mention that it was only a view of whoever wrote that Analect while doing so later on, like with the Lindzei section. Seemingly indicating that that would be the truth of it..or then UO writer negligence. :P
Unfortunately the FF13 UO is one book I never got around to getting so I can't check exact words used.

It's also very interesting that while the Analects seemingly all come from Pulse, they would gladly identify Lindzei as their maker all the while identifying Lindzei as the source of evil (or something like that) elsewhere. There's definitely something funny going on here.
 

Novus

Pro Adventurer
You know how the game loves its Datalogs, it would be nice to have all this Cactaur stuff in there besides scrambling across the four corners of the interewebs to pull the plot together.
 

Arianna

Holy, Personified
AKA
Katie; Seta.
I still wonder why Lindzei made humanity. If the myth is anything to go on, it is to serve as sacrifice to open the door to the Unseen Realm. Still... I wonder if that's the only reason, or the real reason.
 

Mwynn

Tenderness
It's because of that uncertainty that makes it hard for me to believe that Lindzei was the one who crafted them. It's easier for me to just think that "oh, from Etro's flesh and blood humanity was born and naturally evolved through time" etc.

Say that Lindzei really did craft humanity. Where do you guys think Yeul comes into this since she was the first human? Is there a connection we can make between her and Lindzei?
 
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