Final Fantasy XVI

[Fiz]

I don’t think we’ve seems enough of the world/environments for it to be fairly judged as “bland”.
I can more understand that feeling for the character design sensibilities, as it is definitely going for the more muted and grungy style of FFTactics than the more stylistic flourishes that FFXII (and FFXIV) had.

The only major issue that I am worrying about, is that it seems like Clive is our only playable character; and we don’t even have A.I. party members?
And to be clear, I am not necessarily trying to argue that the game will be bad with only Clive as the only playable character (and maybe the Eikons when you take control of them).
It’s more that I think (and likely others as well) that having party members (and typically playable ones) is an element pretty integral to the Final Fantasy franchise, particularly the main numbered single player entries (it’s part of why character switching being added to FFXV made many happy, or people enjoying the added Trusts and NPC-RP solo duties with the supporting cast in FFXIV are enjoyed by many FF fans). So the game could be game of the year quality, but at the same time I might still feel like something is missing if party members/other playable characters are a feature absent in the game.

This is where I am. It wont be a deal breaker if there isnt a group of playable characters, but it will be something I'll judge negatively because its part of why I enjoy FF and JRPG's. Also, if FF moves away from group based combat, then action RPG's that have a group will become thin on the ground again.

 

[JBedford]

I'm not interested. Never especially been a fan of action combat games. I choose to play FF, and I choose not to play DMC.

I think the lack of a party is the real killer. I don't know why this game is a mainline Final Fantasy game. I mean I'm all for each FF having its own identity and constantly mixing things up, but there's a point where I question why it even has the brand. Is FF nothing more than a flavour of summons? Sometimes there's crystals?

Ordinarily a mainline FF would be something I habitually play (unless it's an MMO), but since this is just another game, whether this goes on my to-play list will depend entirely on if it reviews very well.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I feel like someone should make an alignment meme of "What is a Final Fantasy," with FFXVI being the Chaotic/Rebel Neutral.

FF1 would be the starting point of Lawful/Purist Good/Traditional.

FFXIII would be the Lawful/Purist Evil/Radical.

 

[Fiz]

I'm not interested. Never especially been a fan of action combat games. I choose to play FF, and I choose not to play DMC.

I think the lack of a party is the real killer. I don't know why this game is a mainline Final Fantasy game. I mean I'm all for each FF having its own identity and constantly mixing things up, but there's a point where I question why it even has the brand. Is FF nothing more than a flavour of summons? Sometimes there's crystals?

Ordinarily a mainline FF would be something I habitually play (unless it's an MMO), but since this is just another game, whether this goes on my to-play list will depend entirely on if it reviews very well.

I feel like someone should make an alignment meme of "What is a Final Fantasy," with FFXVI being the Chaotic/Rebel Neutral.

FF1 would be the starting point of Lawful/Purist Good/Traditional.

FFXIII would be the Lawful/Purist Evil/Radical.

Lol. Well, FF for me is:

Proper storytelling that while serious doesn't take itself too seriously.

Group of unlikely heroes going up against unimaginable odds. Underdogs vs the machine - basically.

Character classes of some description with defined roles for each character.

Different types of people from different backgrounds coming together, learning about each other/how to accept each other for a greater cause.

Reads the rule of increasing stakes and goes "meh, hold my beer" and somehow pulls it off.

Blends fantasy, magic, often sci-fi or "tech" and superhero type character design.

Chocobos, summons, moogles, and other wacky stuff that shouldn't be there but also, totally should.


Isn't that basically FF's identity? Either way, its how I see the series and a single playable character goes against a load of that.

 

[LNK]

I'm really getting terra/ff6 vibes when it comes to the eikons. Based on the dialogue in this trailer, it's seems like the dominants turn into the them. If one dies, a new one can take their place. Not exactly like Terra being able to transform into an esper, but you get what I'm saying.

I can't wait to play this game. Not the biggest fan of action combat games, but ff7 remake wasn't exactly turn based, and I loved that combat system. Maybe I'll be able to get a ps5 for retail when this comes out lol

 

[Theozilla]

I think since greater emphasis on a “lead character” since FFVII and then the release of FFXI and FFXIV, and also the greater success of spin-offs like Crisis Core and other titles, the concept of multiple playable characters has become viewed (for better or for worse depending on one’s tastes) as a less essential element of “Final Fantasy” than the other common elements that there are a consensus on.

And yeah the Dominant/Eikon system basically sounds like how the Avatar in ATLA/TLoK works, but with one for each summon (at least that’s how it’s “supposed” to work, the two Ifrits at the end of the trailer is definitely supposed to be a twist/wrench in the system).
It’s also similar to the Holy Blood or Crests in some of the Fire Emblem games, with the inheritance of a magical quality being tied to social standing in society.

 

[Wol]

well having one playable character might result in more customization options (both in the battle system and gear options).

I doubt there won't be at least guest characters at some points.

Having a party travelling together is way more fun though.

 

[Fiz]

I've not read the entire thread so I don't know whether this has been brought up, but there is something I find off about the UI and the XVI thread on ResetEra has started pointing stuff out about it. The UI has carried over the sci-fi scheme similar to XIII+ which is a weird decision in a medieval fantasy game.

I find the trailer too "flashy" overall though, like, some restraint and thoughtfulness with the magic design would be nice.

I'm really getting terra/ff6 vibes when it comes to the eikons. Based on the dialogue in this trailer, it's seems like the dominants turn into the them. If one dies, a new one can take their place. Not exactly like Terra being able to transform into an esper, but you get what I'm saying.

I can't wait to play this game. Not the biggest fan of action combat games, but ff7 remake wasn't exactly turn based, and I loved that combat system. Maybe I'll be able to get a ps5 for retail when this comes out lol

Thats an interesting point, I hadn't made the connection.

 

[Wol]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532504252664381447

First one looks more generic, second looks almost like a painting.

 

[Theozilla]

well having one playable character might result in more customization options (both in the battle system and gear options).

I doubt there won't be at least guest characters at some points.

Having a party travelling together is way more fun though.

Oh I am sure there will at least be major supporting characters traveling with Clive (the other Dominants who have character blurbs on the site seen to be likely candidates at the moment), but it doesn’t seem like (at the moment at least) that they will even necessarily be AI party members (like FFXV was initially).

Which isn’t to say that doesn’t mean the supporting FFXVI cast won’t be important or relevant, that’s basically how FFXIV worked with its supporting cast until the Trust system (and increased RP-solo duty prominence) was implemented with ShadowBringers. And the main writer of FFXVI was main writer of Heavensward, and people loved Heavensward’s characters (and its sole playable character is effectively a semi-silent character like FF1 and FF3’s WoLs were) and story.

 

[Eerie]

The Dominants seem to be important enough for them to follow us, so we can get attached to them (until they die). I didn't notice but this game is 17+! Is this a first for a mainstream FF?

 

[Theozilla]

The Dominants seem to be important enough for them to follow us, so we can get attached to them (until they die). I didn't notice but this game is 17+! Is this a first for a mainstream FF?

I believe so (Type-0 was rate M, but I don’t think the majority of people would consider it a “mainstream” FF) at least since the ESRB rating system was implemented (though keep in mind the older pre-ESRB-becoming-widespread FF titles may have also had plot points that would get M ratings if they were depicted with the visual fidelity of contemporary triple AAA games, but don’t/didn’t because of the more archaic graphics of the era).

 

[ph14basicbitch]

We're gonna kill the other Dominants in order for Clive to use their powers.

Then we're going to use everyone's powers to punch God in the dick and ~*~ Defy Fate ~*~ so people can go back to the other religious jrpg theme of everyone fulfilling their karma while suffering through the hell of living.

Meaning the real Eikon powers were the friends we killed along the way.

I've not read the entire thread so I don't know whether this has been brought up, but there is something I find off about the UI and the XVI thread on ResetEra has started pointing stuff out about it. The UI has carried over the sci-fi scheme similar to XIII+ which is a weird decision in a medieval fantasy game.

I brought it up earlier, but I feel like I could go on a rant about it. Aside from it looking out of place in a Medieval game, I think multiple parts of it just look unnecessarily flashy.

 

[Fiz]

I brought it up earlier, but I feel like I could go on a rant about it. Aside from it looking out of place in a Medieval game, I think multiple parts of it just look unnecessarily flashy.

I see overly flashy stuff like this and think of Frankie Boyle stood on stage miming the shaking of a bunch of keys going "look at the shiny shiny".


This...

 

[Theozilla]

Keep in mind trailers in general almost always highlight the most flashy parts; the objective of most trailers makes them inherently inclined towards it.

 

[ph14basicbitch]

We're talking about the ui specifically, not that the trailer in general.

A flashy cutscene plays once in a game. A flashy ui is present in every battle through the entire game.

 

[cold_spirit]

One seemingly eternal aspect about FF is the debate over its identity.

We're seeing it now with XVI and how integral party-based combat and adventuring is to fans. To a different extent, we're seeing it with VIIR and the addition of the Whispers. There's literally yet another ongoing thread on this site about how many changes we should expect in future parts, and people are once again pointing at the same developer quotes and game moments to reinforce their arguments.

It happened in 2016 with XV moving the series from turn-based to action.

It happened in the 2000's with XI and Dirge of Cerberus asking, "can a mainline FF be a MMO? Can a spinoff be a shooter?" The answer to the former is still divisive to this day with many believing that XI and XIV shouldn't be numbered entries.

It happened in the late 90's over the series' art style, modern vs traditional, with Kitase pulling the company one way with VIII and Sakaguchi pulling it the other way with IX (this is wonderfully detailed in Resonant Arc's longform video series on VIII, give it a listen when you have the time).

You can create a list of "what makes FF" all you want, but at the top should be this:

Final Fantasy's identity is always in flux.

This is the mentality I've adopted and I tell ya, I'm having a whole lotta fun!

 

[Theozilla]

Also the change from 2D to 3D was a major change for many fans.
The Legend of Zelda series has some similar divisions with fans who think the series’ core identity is the 2D overhead map style while others (probably the majority now) feel the third-person from the back 3D games are the core The Legend of Zelda experience.

 

[LNK]

I'm a simple person. Final fantasy is whatever the creators of final fantasy, release as final fantasy.

 

[Lex]

It's never going to appeal to everyone, none of them do. I can sympathise with what people are saying when they're lamenting the lack of a party system etc. I'm actually shocked that I *don't* care more, but I think it's probably that what I've seen so far looks incredible, and I have faith in YoshiP to deliver a complete (and finished) experience, which is already a step up from XV. Also VII remake did the party system I've always wanted, so the itch is scratched so to speak.

I can't wait to get my hands on it.

 

[JBedford]

Final Fantasy's identity is always in flux.

This is the mentality I've adopted and I tell ya, I'm having a whole lotta fun!

I'm a simple person. Final fantasy is whatever the creators of final fantasy, release as final fantasy.

This is what I don't get.

How can someone be such a Final Fantasy fan when the only guarantee is that the name includes the words "Final Fantasy" and Square's name will appear on it?

Top-quality graphics as a sole USP doesn't really work if you ever go back and play earlier games. Consistent quality is one thing, but the more different each one is the less likely that will be true for you. People already had staggeringly different opinions about the early games. I hated FFXIII, and FFXV was... an experimental mix. At this point you're waiting 5+ years for who knows what.

When people wait years for a new entry to the series, "same title" and "same corporation" is usually not all they are hoping for.

In 2001 I could say I was an FF fan, and I enjoyed most of the ten games at the time. There's been just five since, I've only had the chance to play three of those--and still enjoyed most of them--but how can I say I'm an FF fan now? It's lost its meaning.

Don't worry, I'm still having a whole lotta fun with other games, Square Enix games, and even FF games. It's just waiting for an FF release can no longer be as exciting as it is for other series where I can have expectations greater than "Ifrit will be in it".

Aside: I wonder how Yakuza fans felt about Yakuza 7. The western publishers had the good sense to knock the number off, and it has the benefit of having a brand new story focus. But wow. I guess there are many things to like about Yakuza beside the combat, but becoming a turn-based RPG sure changes things.

 

[LNK]

How can someone be such a Final Fantasy fan when the only guarantee is that the name includes the words "Final Fantasy" and Square's name will appear on it?

Because that is what final fantasy is, when it comes down to it. Yes, I can go into detail about what's in final fantasy games (characters, the story, summons, music, game play, etc) but just because things now, aren't the exact same as they used to be, doesn't make it any less final fantasy.

In 2001 I could say I was an FF fan, and I enjoyed most of the ten games at the time. There's been just five since, I've only had the chance to play three of those--and still enjoyed most of them--but how can I say I'm an FF fan now? It's lost its meaning.

Now imagine the people who never played anything prior to 13. Are you telling them, "nah, these aren't final fantasy games. Only the ones up until 10 are the real final fantasy games"?

Honestly, that's what you're sounding like.

 

[JBedford]

The name "Final Fantasy" had meaning and it doesn't anymore.

Is Dirge of Cerberus less of a "Final Fantasy" game to you than Final Fantasy VII? If your answer is "no" I don't think there's any point in this discussion because we're not discussing the same thing.

Edit: Actually

Now imagine the people who never played anything prior to 13. Are you telling them, "nah, these aren't final fantasy games. Only the ones up until 10 are the real final fantasy games"?

Honestly, that's what you're sounding like.

That's not what I said at all. I never once gave a definition to "Final Fantasy". I said once you'd know about what to expect and now it's no one's guess.

 

[looneymoon]

I dont see 90s/2000sesque FF games making a comeback unless they're side projects or something.

This game looks more interesting to me than any other of the more recent mainline titles for me, FF7R aside. The 13 series and 15 imo had more flaws than positives that weigh em down, 14 doesn't interest me because I cba to spend time on an mmo. That said there are other non-FF games that have grabbed my interest much more, so this might fly under the radar depending on what happens! I'm interested, but not exactly hyped up or anything.

 

[LNK]

The name "Final Fantasy" had meaning and it doesn't anymore.

What exactly was that meaning?

Is Dirge of Cerberus less of a "Final Fantasy" game to you than Final Fantasy VII? If your answer is "no" I don't think there's any point in this discussion because we're not discussing the same thing.

I thought we were talking about mainline games? Games like dirge, WoFF and tactics, are something entirely different.

That's not what I said at all. I never once gave a definition to "Final Fantasy". I said once you'd know about what to expect and now it's no one's guess.

You didn't give a specific definition, but you questioned how I could be a Final Fantasy fan, based on an oversimplified definition I gave.

I dont see 90s/2000sesque FF games making a comeback unless they're side projects or something.

I agree. As much as I'd prefer Final Fantasy to have stayed that way, I'm no longer the target consumer.