Final Fantasy XVI

[Wol]

I'm still not feeling it. The more I look at it, the more doubts I'm having.


The character designs really aren't inspiring to me. They feel so, same old, same old. Even Clives name makes me feel underwhelmed.

All this talk about Ivalice-inspired FF's and political storytelling also isn't helping. FF-T wasn't my thing, FF12 is the only FF I DNF'd because it started to drag and just lost steam for me and I'm not a grear lover of FF14... I mean its pretty good but not enough for me to rave over it.

The thought of only having Clive playable isn't resonating with me.

I don't even know what I think about it having an adult age rating. Thats new and when FF goes "dark and edgy" it can have mixed results. While FF6 and FF7OG did well, I have Dirge of Cerberus flashbacks.

I don't know, I will definitely be following it and picking it up. But I have this sinking feeling that its not going to do the western thing a well as western games and not do the Japanese thing a well as other Japanese games. If that makes sense.

I hope I'm wrong, I really do.

It's OK if it's not your thing. But I don't see how XVI is edgy at all. The quality of the dialogues and voice-acting + non-focus on stylish flamboyant designs is a good indicator that it will be better than Doc lol (in terms of maturity, but also in general).

 

[Fiz]

It's OK if it's not your thing. But I don't see how XVI is edgy at all. The quality of the dialogues and voice-acting + non-focus on stylish flamboyant designs is a good indicator that it will be better than Doc lol (in terms of maturity, but also in general).

Its going to have an M-rating which isn't typical for FF and I would expect its taking on a darker, more adult tone. I wasn't seriously suggesting that it'll be like DoC, but, I'm not sure how this will be.

 

[KindOfBlue]

I’ve seen and heard the word “edgy” so much at this point that I have to think about what exactly people mean when they use it…like sometimes it’s a synonym for “mature” and other times it means trying too hard to be mature to the point of looking childish lol

 

[Fiz]

I’ve seen and heard the word “edgy” so much at this point that I have to think about what exactly people mean when they use it…like sometimes it’s a synonym for “mature” and other times it means trying too hard to be mature to the point of looking childish lol

Edgy can mean a whole bunch of things. Thats kinda my problem with the age rating. The BIB is my concern.

Slapping an 18 rating on it is a big change for FF and means what exactly?


Does it mean its more graphic?

Does it mean the story is darker, grittier, more on the nose, and more mature (thoughtfully dark, with compelling purpose and meaning)?

Or does it mean its going to be tryhard or "anime dark"?

If its the first, meh, but fine. The second is also fine, the latter... thats what I'm worried about. What dark often means in games and anime are the latter.


It is one of my lesser concerns, I'm just aware that M rated content is very unusual for SE whose model is almost entirely aimed at children and younger teens.

 

[Wol]

Edgy can mean a whole bunch of things. Thats kinda my problem with the age rating. The BIB is my concern.

Slapping an 18 rating on it is a big change for FF and means what exactly?


Does it mean its more graphic?

Does it mean the story is darker, grittier, more on the nose, and more mature (thoughtfully dark, with compelling purpose and meaning)?

Or does it mean its going to be tryhard or "anime dark"?

If its the first, meh, but fine. The second is also fine, the latter... thats what I'm worried about. What dark often means in games and anime are the latter.


It is one of my lesser concerns, I'm just aware that M rated content is very unusual for SE whose model is almost entirely aimed at children and younger teens.

Look at the team's past projects and you'll get an idea. I don't think it's their style to do anime dark just to look dark.

 

[Lulcielid]

Speaking of rating, FF16 doesn't have an official rating yet, only a provisorial +18 from PEGI.

 

[Fiz]

Speaking of rating, FF16 doesn't have an official rating yet, only a provisorial +18 from PEGI.

Nothing in that article suggests it won't be M-Rated/18, its repeating pretty much what I was saying about it being darker, edgier and more mature.

Its also worth noting that larger media companies are often sent press packs around major announcements that give key talking points relating to the product. So media companies highlighting stuff such as that this is a new, darker, edgier FF is likely indicated.

Its being pointed at the adult market and will be 18 in most places.

Look at the team's past projects and you'll get an idea. I don't think it's their style to do anime dark just to look dark.

This is the thing though, what projects are representative of this shift? While these games sometimes touch on more mature themes or ideas, and get dive into darker elements, they aren't aimed at an adult market. While some games have a PEGI 16, these are typically due to depictions of blood, suicide, smoking or drinking rather than because the content is more adult.

A 16 and 18 rating isn't just a result of more blood either, its typically the entire tone. So, this will likely be a very different experience to the FF's of the past.

FF moving into an 18+ age rating is a significant shift and puts FF into unchartered territory.

 

[Makoeyes987]

It's not new though. FF Type 0 was rated the M equivalent in Japan, back when it was released only in Japan in 2011 and then when it released as an HD remaster in 2015.

And then there's Stranger of Paradise, FF Origin which came out in March. FF has dabbled and released 2 rated M games already.

FFXV came the close to an M but they somehow toned down some of the death and stuff. But FF has always dabbled in M themes. They're just going fully into it now.

 

[Fiz]

It's not new though. FF Type 0 was rated the M equivalent in Japan, back when it was released only in Japan in 2011 and then when it released as an HD remaster in 2015.

And then there's Stranger of Paradise, FF Origin which came out in March. FF has dabbled and released 2 rated M games already.

FFXV came the close to an M but they somehow toned down some of the death and stuff. But FF has always dabbled in M themes. They're just going fully into it now.

Firstly, the age rating is one of the lesser things that bother me. I know some FF games can reach into PEGI 16, and there have been some dabbling with spinoffs.

But, when I'm concerned about tone, FF Type 0 and Stranger of Paradise probably arent hallmarks to ease my concerns.

At the end of the day, I do not associate SE and the teams behind FF with adult content, I associate them with childrens and youth content; which is where the vast majority of their games sit. When the FF franchise steps outside of that we get mixed results.

Consistently, FF has been at its strongest when they have created content for younger audiences that have depth, complexity and maturity. When they have gone in heavier its often been stilted, a bit cringey, a bit "dark anime".

 

[Makoeyes987]

I mean, for the time of their releases, FF games were pretty mature. The only reason they got their age ratings in Japan were the fantasy elements and sprite graphics. And at the beginning in the US, half of the classics weren't released here. I mean they are teen-like but they certainly do cover adult themes wholeheartedly. If anything, it feels superficial that they shy away from the weight of the themes they introduce, just to hold an arbitrary game rating.

The geopolitical violence and rawness of war being depicted in XVI are not new to FF at all. At least 4 other titles have depicted those themes. But because XVI is going to unabashedly show them, that makes it artificial or something?

And I would say Type-0 and Origins were extremely effective at telling their stories with the filter off, which made you care about the stakes and consequences of their conflicts.

 

[Wol]

apart from the sex scene (which probably won't show much) and violence depicting blood I don't see anything unusual to FF, and when it comes to how the darker tone has been depicted so far, I only see positives (by the reasons I've already mentioned).

 

[FFShinra]

I revel in the possibility of M if only to avoid certain nonsense that was witnessed in the remake due to increased realism.

 

[Wol]

Post in thread 'Final Fantasy XVI General Discussion/Predictions Thread' https://www.resetera.com/threads/fi...ssion-predictions-thread.287810/post-88002594

Very well-detailed prediction of the story. Clive could really be the most anti-hero FF protagonist, as we don't see him just fighting against one evil empire but against every faction.

 

[Theozilla]

Post in thread 'Final Fantasy XVI General Discussion/Predictions Thread' https://www.resetera.com/threads/fi...ssion-predictions-thread.287810/post-88002594

Very well-detailed prediction of the story. Clive could really be the most anti-hero FF protagonist.

I can’t believe I never considered the possibility that Clive ends up being conscripted/enslaved by the Empire, that potential puts so many things into context.

Also this timeline/evolution of the Final Fantasy devs teams from that previous thread is really interesting. I wonder why it doesn’t have a directly connecting arrow from FF13 to Type-0/FF15 though? Also couldn’t Crisis Core be considered a dev team predecessor to Type-0/FF15?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532541442203213824

Anyways with Ifrit being a second Eikon of Fire and there appearing to be a second unknown Eikon of Earth, I wonder if that means each element will have a second Eikon to it as well? Also I wonder if Water and Leviathan will make an appearance too? Seems odd for nearly all the elements from FFXIV (fire, wind, earth, ice, lightning, light/holy, darkness) to be represented but water to be excluded.

Anyways besides Ifrit to Phoenix, here’s what I am thinking could be the secondary Eikons in FF16 (and if two water Eikons are added, that would fittingly make 16 Eikons appearing in FF16)


Alternate Elemental Summons (the bolded ones are the ones I think are most likely)

Earth: Golem/Kujata*/Brothers/Hecatoncheir

Ice: Fenrir**/Mist Dragon

Wind: Sylph/Typhon/Syldra/Pandemona/Tiamat

Lightning: Ixion/Quetzalcoatl

Water: Bismarck/Siren/Valefor***

Darkness: Diabolos/Lich/Hades/Cerberus/Anima/Atomos/Ark

Light/Holy: Alexander/Carbuncle/Lakshmi/Seraph/Kirin/Madeen/Unicorn



* I know Kujata technically never does an Earth elemental damaging attack in FF7 but it’s attack animation definitely reminiscent of Earth

** Fenrir has embodied many different elements in the Final Fantasy franchise, but one of its more recent appearances like in FFXIV had it as an Ice element enemy (and there are not many other reoccurring enemies/summons besides Shiva that embody Ice)

***like Kujata I know Valefor isn’t technically a Water summon but it is like the only one of Yuna’s summons that has the Waterga series of spells, plus FF10 is heavily associated with water in general.

 

[Lulcielid]

Also this timeline/evolution of the Final Fantasy devs teams from that previous thread is really interesting. I wonder why it doesn’t have a directly connecting arrow from FF13 to Type-0/FF15 though? Also couldn’t Crisis Core be considered a dev team predecessor to Type-0/FF15?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532541442203213824

This is quite a fun graphic for sure, but also not exactly accurate about the reality of these dev teams.

This is more of a showcase of "here's what games the most well-known and longest serving current FF creators worked on", these people being Kitase, Nojima, Toriyama, Nomura, Matsuno, Yoshida, Minagawa and Maehiro. Obviously there's been a lot of shuffling people around in these teams (and in the general development division setups that SE has used and changed), people working on other SE projects, hiring new blood, moving to other companies and industries, retirements etc. going on over the years in all of the dev teams and things aren't as clean cut as this might imply.

There's a lot of other important devs who were very involved with both of these lineages, like for example

• Hiroyuki Ito who worked on VI, VIII, Tactics, VS, IX, XII
• Jun Akiyama who worked on VII, Tactics, VS, Kingdom Hearts series, XII, XIII, Versus XIII, XIV
• Takashi Katano who worked on VIII, X, XII, XIII
• Ken Narita who worked on VII, VIII, X, XI, XII, XIII
• Isamu Kamikokuryo who worked on X, XII, XIII, XV
• Yusuke Naora who worked on VII, VIII, X, The Last Remnant (which had a bunch of XII devs in its team I think), XIII, XV
• Kazuhiro Kataoka who worked on XII, The Last Remnant, FFVIIR

 

[Theozilla]

I mean I think the that’s what the original thread was pretty clear on, that it was highlighting the “lineage” of the most well known devs, not that the all dev teams were identical as they progressed on. As well as showing the split branches of Ivalice and stuff influenced by it, and the non-Ivalice stuff.

 

[LNK]

Post in thread 'Final Fantasy XVI General Discussion/Predictions Thread' https://www.resetera.com/threads/fi...ssion-predictions-thread.287810/post-88002594

Very well-detailed prediction of the story. Clive could really be the most anti-hero FF protagonist, as we don't see him just fighting against one evil empire but against every faction.

Shit, I think it would be kind of cool, if he turned out to be the actual villain of the story. Not saying it's what's going on, but I wouldn't mind at all

 

[Theozilla]

Shit, I think it would be kind of cool, if he turned out to be the actual villain of the story. Not saying it's what's going on, but I wouldn't mind at all

I don't think that thread is proposing he will be a villain, an anti-hero sure. But a guy going on a warpath against the empire who enslaved him and/or trying to bring down the entire Mothercrystal/Dominant institutions that cause so much societal shit, doesn't necessarily scream "villain".

 

[Wol]

I don't think that thread is proposing he will be a villain, an anti-hero sure. But a guy going on a warpath against the empire who enslaved him and/or trying to bring down the entire Mothercrystal/Dominant institutions that cause so much societal shit, doesn't necessarily scream "villain".

From their perspective (the world and its current order), he surely is. But yeah anti-hero fits better overall, I wonder if he'll end up having to kill a "good" dominant to achieve his objective.

 

[FFShinra]

If so, I wonder if Jill is said dominant....

 

[LNK]

I don't think that thread is proposing he will be a villain, an anti-hero sure. But a guy going on a warpath against the empire who enslaved him and/or trying to bring down the entire Mothercrystal/Dominant institutions that cause so much societal shit, doesn't necessarily scream "villain".

Oh no no no. I wasn't saying it was. I was just taking anti-hero one step further, if pushed in a bad direction.

I just think it'd be interesting in they did take that route

 

[Theozilla]

If so, I wonder if Jill is said dominant....

I would be very surprised if she isn’t Shiva’s. Besides their faces and color schemes looking similar, Jill is also from the Northern Territories (i.e. likely a snow and ice area). And every other character with a blurb on the official sight appears to be a Dominant too.

 

[Wol]

Interesting theory!

If you look at the map, you'll also see that each Mothercrystal is named after a body part of a drake.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Honestly, I do think we'll end up allying ourselves with at least some of the dominants. Clearly these beings are exploited and I could see them unifying to overthrow their corrupt empires using them as tools of war.

 

[Wol]

Honestly, I do think we'll end up allying ourselves with at least some of the dominants. Clearly these beings are exploited and I could see them unifying to overthrow their corrupt empires using them as tools of war.

apparently the dominants are chosen by the crystals, even if they are used as tools or simply hostilized (like in the Iron Kingdom). Some will is pulling the strings... Maybe not much different from fal'cie branding l'cie.