Final Fantasy XVI
- Thread starter Lex
- Start date
Jimmy XH
Pro Adventurer
We march on…
This was EPIC. Liquid Flame handed my arse to me!!!
Jill came into her own here after a slow-ish start for me. Plenty more of that please…? I am a bit fearful of another dark turn as the relationship with Clive deepens…
What really got me was the music in this chapter. Strolling and fighting through the Comraich towards the Inner Sanctum was pure FFVIII-FFIX style glory. I felt as though I was on my way to meet Garland.
The story is bubbling nicely and the world leading up to this point keeps getting darker. That scene in Auldhyl gave me a shock that FF has gone this far. But I’m here for it.
Jill came into her own here after a slow-ish start for me. Plenty more of that please…? I am a bit fearful of another dark turn as the relationship with Clive deepens…
What really got me was the music in this chapter. Strolling and fighting through the Comraich towards the Inner Sanctum was pure FFVIII-FFIX style glory. I felt as though I was on my way to meet Garland.
The story is bubbling nicely and the world leading up to this point keeps getting darker. That scene in Auldhyl gave me a shock that FF has gone this far. But I’m here for it.
RocketWizard
Rookie Adventurer
- AKA
- RocketWizard
Oh boy stuff got crazy at where I’m at all I’ll say about the sidequests is to do For Great Justice it’s utterly nuts. It may seem like a normal sidequest at the beginning but at the end you get probably the most interesting story of the sidequests so far and now
Massive spoilers ahead
Massive spoilers ahead
the Titan Eikon battle is probably the best thing so far it was hard in some parts but it was awesome as hell also very long. The music wasn’t just the normal boss theme but some metal or techno I think? Idk I’m not good with music but the entire Fight was nuts.
Ultima has started to make more of an appearance. And I’ve destroyed the 3rd mothercrystal. But the most important part for me so far is in the hunt board I’ve got an S-rank hunt open. I did some research and discovered he's lvl 45 I’m only 33 I’m scared to fight him since I haven’t even fought an A-rank and B-ranks kick my ass so I’ll just do the other hunts in preparation then try him before getting back to the story
Ultima has started to make more of an appearance. And I’ve destroyed the 3rd mothercrystal. But the most important part for me so far is in the hunt board I’ve got an S-rank hunt open. I did some research and discovered he's lvl 45 I’m only 33 I’m scared to fight him since I haven’t even fought an A-rank and B-ranks kick my ass so I’ll just do the other hunts in preparation then try him before getting back to the story
RocketWizard
Rookie Adventurer
- AKA
- RocketWizard
I apologize for the double post however I’m back
And after 2 deaths I managed to beat my first S-rank hunt Atlas the World Breaker.
It was level 45 and I was level 34 however after memorizing his attack patterns a lot of precision dodges, counters and all the other fun stuff with use of my limit breaks I managed to defeat him ,but he still throttled me so hard I ran out of potions at the end and I was on half health.
The exp he gave me was so much I leveled up twice.
Definitely one of the hardest fights in the game so far.
And after 2 deaths I managed to beat my first S-rank hunt Atlas the World Breaker.
It was level 45 and I was level 34 however after memorizing his attack patterns a lot of precision dodges, counters and all the other fun stuff with use of my limit breaks I managed to defeat him ,but he still throttled me so hard I ran out of potions at the end and I was on half health.
The exp he gave me was so much I leveled up twice.
Definitely one of the hardest fights in the game so far.
cold_spirit
he/him
- AKA
- Alex T
Until now, I didn't have a strong opinion on Remake's age rating limitations. But XVI has changed that a bit.
Biggs and Jessie's "dirt patch injuries" on the pillar, the case over Jenova's decapitated head, alien goo, and the black smoke from President Shinra's fatal wound are beginning to look downright juvenile in comparison to XVI's portrayal of blood and violence. Some of these even extend to Crisis Core Reunion unfortunately. It didn't bother me before, but now I can see what we were robbed of. Imagine how different XVI would need to be if it was forced into a teen rating. I feel it'd be a completely different game, both in terms of its events and tone. Now flip it and imagine how different Remake would feel if it was rated for mature audiences.
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Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
Haven't been posting much due to playing, but so far this is definitely one of the best FFs. Easily in my top favorites. Clive is awesome and this story is just... supreme.
I'll have more thoughts once I beat it. Currently just got Titan's Eikon abilities after seeing Kupka lose his grip over everything he held dear.
I have to say this game is challenging, I'm getting my ass handed to me every so often. I feel like I get a grip on things then the challenge cranks up. But it's also forgiving. Side quests get much better as the game goes on and I feel the FF elements wonderfully compliment the dark yet intriguing world this story takes place in.
This game is like an action RPG version of FF Tactics in terms of story and setting. And I love it.
I'll have more thoughts once I beat it. Currently just got Titan's Eikon abilities after seeing Kupka lose his grip over everything he held dear.
I have to say this game is challenging, I'm getting my ass handed to me every so often. I feel like I get a grip on things then the challenge cranks up. But it's also forgiving. Side quests get much better as the game goes on and I feel the FF elements wonderfully compliment the dark yet intriguing world this story takes place in.
This game is like an action RPG version of FF Tactics in terms of story and setting. And I love it.
Wol
None Shall Remember Those Who Do Not Fight
- AKA
- Rosarian Shield
Yeah, really feeling this might crack my top 5 FF, the second half has been super strong.
Photo album #2 (spoilers up to Northreach)
image 19 includes the Heatwave that saved my ass against Benna lol
Edit: Reading about Aetherfloods and their effects on people, I can't help but think of the Mist from FFXII. Definitely not a coincidence.
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D
Deleted member 13557
Guest
Vivi / black mage as a scarecrow
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
I've just seen greatness.
Holy fucking shit.
Yoshi-P fucking cooked in this game. This is seriously one of the best FFs in the series.
One of the best boss fights in this game is here. In this game.
I am amazed. FF really knows how to push the limits. And succeed.
Holy fucking shit.
Yoshi-P fucking cooked in this game. This is seriously one of the best FFs in the series.
One of the best boss fights in this game is here. In this game.
The Titan Lost boss fight is one of the most incredible fusions of multiple gameplay styles and genres that works and just... Is incredibly hyped. Like, goddamn, this is so fucking creative and badass. I seriously cannot believe what I just played.
Sonic? In MY Final Fantasy??? It's more likely than you think.
Sonic? In MY Final Fantasy??? It's more likely than you think.
I am amazed. FF really knows how to push the limits. And succeed.
Wol
None Shall Remember Those Who Do Not Fight
- AKA
- Rosarian Shield
Down with the second mothercrystal!
I like how npcs react with new conversations after a big event. Also really loving the side cast, Gav, Mid, Tomes, all great people;
gameplay-wise i think it could have been stellar if some minor things were included:
- a dumb minigame in towns
- more activities for Torgal (like digging to find hidden items, customizing accessories)
- maybe 1-2 extra combat mechanics to break the simplicity (special combos with party members)
- more banter during exploration
- imagine if you could explore one of the bigger cities or control other characters.
story-wise so far this is the standard that FF should be striving ALWAYS.
Jill finally got her moment to stand out and shine. The Prelude rendition playing when Clive cut the crystal was pretty fucking great, so many chills there. I wish we could have explored more of the islands to learn about the Iron Kingdom's culture and customs.
I like how npcs react with new conversations after a big event. Also really loving the side cast, Gav, Mid, Tomes, all great people;
gameplay-wise i think it could have been stellar if some minor things were included:
- a dumb minigame in towns
- more activities for Torgal (like digging to find hidden items, customizing accessories)
- maybe 1-2 extra combat mechanics to break the simplicity (special combos with party members)
- more banter during exploration
- imagine if you could explore one of the bigger cities or control other characters.
story-wise so far this is the standard that FF should be striving ALWAYS.
MoLe_BlAdE
Lv. 25 Adventurer
I'm probably about half way through the main story arc now so I feel like I've experienced a reasonable chunk to chuck my two-penneth in.
I genuinely thought I'd struggle to keep up with the story, but with the introduction of the ATL and Vivian in the Hideaway, I'm not lost at all. I know what's going on and its a refreshing change.
The voice acting is second-to-none. It's fantastic. I really feel a connection to the cast. I'm still struggling a bit with Jill, but I'm hoping she'll get some time in the spotlight soon to flesh out her character a little more. Cid is brilliant (I'm also pretty sure his VA had a minor role in GoT along with other British dramas in the past).
The combat is super fun. I'm still struggling having more than one Eikon - I find switching to the ones I want to use pretty difficult, but I'm sure I'll get there eventually. That's just me though, I'm not massively into these heavily action focussed games (I've died so many times already
). I feel like there's some elements of the combat that have been glossed over. I'm struggling a little to understand why certain enemies don't have elemental weaknesses. Why aren't the vultures susceptible to thunder? Why do those poisonous plant things not have a weakness to fire? Maybe I've played too many RPGs in the past, but I'd have thought there might've been some elemental focus - considering some of the Eikons are elementals. I'm also yet to notice any status effects. Maybe I just haven't come across any enemies that inflict these effects yet, but being half way through, I'd have expected to have been poisoned a few times by now. Finally on the combat, I'd have liked a better thought out stagger mechanic. It just seems a bit rushed. Stagger an enemy and wail on it with all your abilities to get it's health down. I'd have preferred a stagger system like Remake's, but I certainly don't hate it.
The main quest story arc feels very missiony (if that's even a word). Here's your quest, go to the main world map and select it. The areas where the missions are are stunning, I just wanted a little more exploration. The map is already populated when you enter the area. I would have liked it to appear bit by bit as you traverse through it. I haven't explored nearly as much as I can see where I'm supposed to be going.
Only a couple of minor inconveniences so far for me, but it's still a solid game.
I genuinely thought I'd struggle to keep up with the story, but with the introduction of the ATL and Vivian in the Hideaway, I'm not lost at all. I know what's going on and its a refreshing change.
The voice acting is second-to-none. It's fantastic. I really feel a connection to the cast. I'm still struggling a bit with Jill, but I'm hoping she'll get some time in the spotlight soon to flesh out her character a little more. Cid is brilliant (I'm also pretty sure his VA had a minor role in GoT along with other British dramas in the past).
The combat is super fun. I'm still struggling having more than one Eikon - I find switching to the ones I want to use pretty difficult, but I'm sure I'll get there eventually. That's just me though, I'm not massively into these heavily action focussed games (I've died so many times already
). I feel like there's some elements of the combat that have been glossed over. I'm struggling a little to understand why certain enemies don't have elemental weaknesses. Why aren't the vultures susceptible to thunder? Why do those poisonous plant things not have a weakness to fire? Maybe I've played too many RPGs in the past, but I'd have thought there might've been some elemental focus - considering some of the Eikons are elementals. I'm also yet to notice any status effects. Maybe I just haven't come across any enemies that inflict these effects yet, but being half way through, I'd have expected to have been poisoned a few times by now. Finally on the combat, I'd have liked a better thought out stagger mechanic. It just seems a bit rushed. Stagger an enemy and wail on it with all your abilities to get it's health down. I'd have preferred a stagger system like Remake's, but I certainly don't hate it.The main quest story arc feels very missiony (if that's even a word). Here's your quest, go to the main world map and select it. The areas where the missions are are stunning, I just wanted a little more exploration. The map is already populated when you enter the area. I would have liked it to appear bit by bit as you traverse through it. I haven't explored nearly as much as I can see where I'm supposed to be going.
Only a couple of minor inconveniences so far for me, but it's still a solid game.
Jimmy XH
Pro Adventurer
That was just an incredible gaming experience. Just jaw dropping. I was sat on the edge of my seat with my mouth open as though I’d been gobsmacked at birth.
It was a true feast. I’m sweating profusely. Unbelievable.
It was a true feast. I’m sweating profusely. Unbelievable.
This game is truly reinventing what combat, cinematics and story telling can combine to achieve.
Stunning.
Lulcielid
Eyes of the Lord
- AKA
- Lulcy
Since no time frame is given, I assume this was done in the 6 days since release. For comparison FF7R shipped 3.5M copies in 3 days.
Wol
None Shall Remember Those Who Do Not Fight
- AKA
- Rosarian Shield
All they received in sales is just to cover the budget for the entire Titan fight.
Holy fucking shit.
That was batshit insanity, you guys were not kidding! Most spectacular setpiece ever!? I dont remember even GoW having something of this caliber.
Edit>
It sold slightly less than FFVII Remake, but the PS4 install base was much much higher than PS5s. Overall it seems a solid result.
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Holy fucking shit.
That was batshit insanity, you guys were not kidding! Most spectacular setpiece ever!? I dont remember even GoW having something of this caliber.
Edit>
It sold slightly less than FFVII Remake, but the PS4 install base was much much higher than PS5s. Overall it seems a solid result.
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Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
That's very impressive. And it's much deserved.
Just hit one of the most critical moments of the game. Goddamn I love this plot.
is so fucking creepy. I love it, a very awesome villain so far.
Just hit one of the most critical moments of the game. Goddamn I love this plot.
Ultima
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
I unabashedly love the story in this game on countless levels. The ways in where it goes dark are deeply human and don't pull their punches at all. The homages that it uses to underscore the character archetypes of all of the Dominants all work brilliantly, and every single one of them manages to be fully fleshed out into a character that doesn't feel like a cliché trope – but rather that they're the gold standard of a new realization of representation of that idea that their Eikon's power embodies.
While the story takes endless twists & turns that caught me by surprise, the underlying foundation of the story's the design language of the story never once presented something that felt off or unexpected, which makes me ridiculously happy as it's exactly what I was hoping for when it comes to all of the research and whatnot that I'm trying to pull myself back into. I could talk about the world and its characters endlessly, and hopefully I'll get a chance to once more folks get through the story in its entirety.
That all being said, my tl;dr spoiler thread only exists for me to have my STRONG OPINIONS about the gameplay design & implementation, so that they can remain entirely divorced from the absolutely brilliant construction of the game's world, as that's something that's easier for me to engage in and gush about individually.
X
While the story takes endless twists & turns that caught me by surprise, the underlying foundation of the story's the design language of the story never once presented something that felt off or unexpected, which makes me ridiculously happy as it's exactly what I was hoping for when it comes to all of the research and whatnot that I'm trying to pull myself back into. I could talk about the world and its characters endlessly, and hopefully I'll get a chance to once more folks get through the story in its entirety.
That all being said, my tl;dr spoiler thread only exists for me to have my STRONG OPINIONS about the gameplay design & implementation, so that they can remain entirely divorced from the absolutely brilliant construction of the game's world, as that's something that's easier for me to engage in and gush about individually.
X
Wol
None Shall Remember Those Who Do Not Fight
- AKA
- Rosarian Shield
Tetsujin
he/they
- AKA
- Tets
Just finished the main quest "Into the Darkness" (I think that's what it was called at least 
)
)Holy shit? Fucking...Titan?! Holy shit what the fuck
This fight just kept on going
and getting more bananas
and just when you beat his uber-fuck-you-I'm giant now-FOrm (Titan has a GIANT form, let that fucking sink in jfc)
you fight again while tumbling down a cavern that would give the runway from Fast and Furious 6 a run for its money with how absurdly long it is
this was bananas
BANANAS
How the fuck do you even top this? Absolute fucking insanity. Holy shit lmao
I wonder if this is the thing they involved PlatinumGames with, it did feel like some out of control Bayonetta shit or something
whew
Other games would kill to even have a final battle this ridiculous and I'm not even at the end yet
jesus
what the fuck
This fight just kept on going
and getting more bananas
and just when you beat his uber-fuck-you-I'm giant now-FOrm (Titan has a GIANT form, let that fucking sink in jfc)
you fight again while tumbling down a cavern that would give the runway from Fast and Furious 6 a run for its money with how absurdly long it is
this was bananas
BANANAS
How the fuck do you even top this? Absolute fucking insanity. Holy shit lmao
I wonder if this is the thing they involved PlatinumGames with, it did feel like some out of control Bayonetta shit or something
whew
Other games would kill to even have a final battle this ridiculous and I'm not even at the end yet
jesus
what the fuck
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
When it comes to making a little nods to things, my favourite one is during "Things Fall Apart" specifically the "Down the Rabbit Hole" section which has a SPECTACULAR moment with a little Lord of the Rings-inspired joke.
The other reference I really liked is more of a thematic parallel in how a scene is staged that I thought was really well-executed, which was in the Main Quest "Through the Maelstrom" with the way it utilized a really famous moment from BERSERK.
There are a LOT more design references that I could go on about for AGES, but I think that those are the ones that will be most entertaining & interesting respectively, and make the most sense to mention here rather than leave buried in the ongoing research catalogue of mine until that surfaces some day.
The other thing that's roaming around my mind has to do with a certain engineer introduced in "Bolts from the Blue" though in this spoilery digging there are contextual details up to things in "Through the Maelstrom" that make a big difference in seeing some other pieces of the big picture as well as giving better clarity to some moments of the story early on that make them carry even more weight. (This one's a bunch of reading unlike the previous two)
So... yup. Really love the depth of subtle details in the story, especially upon revisiting the little nuanced details for fun reference and also for specific dissection of detail that makes me love the characters and the layers of detail even more. Hopefully that's an enjoyable read for anyone who's made it that far!!
X
The other reference I really liked is more of a thematic parallel in how a scene is staged that I thought was really well-executed, which was in the Main Quest "Through the Maelstrom" with the way it utilized a really famous moment from BERSERK.
When Jill uses her Dominant Powers despite being massively weakened by them to save her & Clive from Odin's Moses trench in the ocean, they wash up on a beach and as their clothes dry, they FINALLY confess their feelings for one another openly, and Clive takes Shiva from her so that he can shoulder the burden and suffering and keep her from harm. The scene in FFXVI.
In BERSERK, Guts saves Casca and has to drag them out of a river into the rain, and needs to to stay together with her for warmth while their clothes dry – and that’s when they finally start to open up more honestly towards one another about their feelings (as physical contact is really big trigger for Guts). It's at this point that the underlying nature of the dynamic of their relationship permanently changes and Guts draws the enemy forces to himself in order to allow Casca to escape the danger. The scene from the anime.
I liked this one specifically because it takes the framing elements of the protagonist who's trying to shoulder all of the burdens themselves, and someone who wants to be by his side and uses that same setup to help reinforce the underlying link between the two characters who have lived and fought side-by-side for years where there's always been SOME kind of tension, and then finally broke the ice with that same catalyst.
Additionally, it's also worth mentioning that from the very first moment that you see them both, the Crown Prince Dion Lesage & his Right Hand Squire Terence evoke an intentional visual parallel to the designs of Oscar Francois de Jarjayes & André Grenadier from the manga Rose of Versailles. Especially given that Oscar was essentially the template for THE Bishounen that also gave us Griffith in BERSERK & Sephiroth in FFVII, it's always neat to see those sorts of overt visual parallels to the older source materials as well as a way of instantly communicating the entangled loving nature between the two of them even before it's explicitly shown.
In BERSERK, Guts saves Casca and has to drag them out of a river into the rain, and needs to to stay together with her for warmth while their clothes dry – and that’s when they finally start to open up more honestly towards one another about their feelings (as physical contact is really big trigger for Guts). It's at this point that the underlying nature of the dynamic of their relationship permanently changes and Guts draws the enemy forces to himself in order to allow Casca to escape the danger. The scene from the anime.
I liked this one specifically because it takes the framing elements of the protagonist who's trying to shoulder all of the burdens themselves, and someone who wants to be by his side and uses that same setup to help reinforce the underlying link between the two characters who have lived and fought side-by-side for years where there's always been SOME kind of tension, and then finally broke the ice with that same catalyst.
Additionally, it's also worth mentioning that from the very first moment that you see them both, the Crown Prince Dion Lesage & his Right Hand Squire Terence evoke an intentional visual parallel to the designs of Oscar Francois de Jarjayes & André Grenadier from the manga Rose of Versailles. Especially given that Oscar was essentially the template for THE Bishounen that also gave us Griffith in BERSERK & Sephiroth in FFVII, it's always neat to see those sorts of overt visual parallels to the older source materials as well as a way of instantly communicating the entangled loving nature between the two of them even before it's explicitly shown.
There are a LOT more design references that I could go on about for AGES, but I think that those are the ones that will be most entertaining & interesting respectively, and make the most sense to mention here rather than leave buried in the ongoing research catalogue of mine until that surfaces some day.
The other thing that's roaming around my mind has to do with a certain engineer introduced in "Bolts from the Blue" though in this spoilery digging there are contextual details up to things in "Through the Maelstrom" that make a big difference in seeing some other pieces of the big picture as well as giving better clarity to some moments of the story early on that make them carry even more weight. (This one's a bunch of reading unlike the previous two)
It's time to talk about the hinted details of the overwhelmingly adorable Midadol Telamon, who also has the best expletive line in the entire game while aboard the Enterprise (another fun reference) when uttering the goddess-focused profanity, "Great Greagor's gash!"
While we know that she's Cid's child and takes his last name, that's all we're ever directly told. With Cid dead, it's possible that Mid might not even know who her mother is. Insofar as I'm aware there's no direct confirmation in any side quests, notes, or riddles left behind from Cid to Mid, so I went about dissecting all of the subtext information that I could find, and here's what I can lay out in detail:
On Midadol Telamon:
In both her physical appearance and also in her accent it also seems to be implied that she's Cid's & Benedikta's child from back when the two of them were together. Whereas Mid's accent is always pretty strong, you only get clearer glimpses of how much Benedikta has the same accent when she is especially distraught and screaming at Clive after their fight. Even moreso than that is the way that Cid still VERY clearly loves her when he leaves the bloodied necklace with her body after she's killed by Ifrit, which is very tender that belies the complicated mix of feelings that's going on, and is why it's important to look at the history that we know about them.
When Cidolfus & Benedikta first came to Waloed when they were already together with her pale hand pressed into his as if she would never let go. They came there because Odin's Dominant, King Barnabas Tharmr was seeking to bring the other Dominants together and unite them all. Benedikta listened to what King Tharmr said and became the loyal Commander of Waloed's elite intelligencers – hence Cid's comments to her when he finds her dead being, "Why...? Why'd you have to listen to him? Benna... This can't be what you wanted... can it?" Despite them both having key positions, Cid disagreed with King Tharmr's objective to unite the Dominants as a means to restore the world, and left to follow his own objective which Benedikta felt as a betrayal of "Us" in both herself and of King Tharmr, earning him the title "Cid the Vicious" (likely another fun reference to Sid Vicious). So, what was it that was so significant that split those two lovers apart?
The depth of that betrayal is emphasized when Cid & Benedikta meet and Cid intervenes to save Clive, so she brings up the parallel to how he rescued her (which she later flashes back to before going berserk) and asks him by his Waloed title of Lord Commander why he betrayed his kingdom, and he plays coy about the nature of his disagreement. However, that position explains why Cid instantly, reactively Primed to impale Typhon when it emerged as well as when Ultima revealed itself and attempted to take Clive, despite being wounded Cid said, "I know who you are. And if you think I'm going to let you have him... Think again." and died to stab him in the throat – because uniting the Dominants with Ultima through Mythos was King Tharmr's entire plan, which is why Cid left when Benedikta stayed in Waloed and why he started to try to destroy the Mother Crystals.
When Benedikta vanishes after their standoff, Cid sends Gav to track her rather than trying to follow himself or allow Clive to pursue, and they're clearly BOTH staying out of conflict with each other... despite the fact that King Tharmr values loyalty above all else and Benedikta ruthlessly enforces that by murdering anyone else who betrays someone. On top of that, the mission she's on has Benedikta explicitly attempting to capture other Dominants to unite them for King Tharmr – by kidnapping their companions to draw them out. She's overtly leaving Cid alone despite KNOWING he's Ramuh's Dominant, and the depth of Waloed's Lord Commander and Ramuh's Dominant betraying them. Benedikta's prior relationship to Cid isn't leverage enough to be able to bring him back in, she's the Commander of King Tharmr's intelligencers who value loyalty above everything else... except that while Benedikta remained together with King Tharmr when Cid deserted which is why she arrives in the room at the game's opening, she leaves her king's side to openly flirt with Hugo – why is she risking flirting with Hugo and being unloyal in her relationship to the king she stayed with rather than follow Cid who she already trusted prior to meeting?
This gets more clear when we learn specific details when Clive takes the blame for killing her when facing against Hugo after Cid's death. While Clive did murder Benedikta, we know for a fact that her body was left tenderly when Cid found the sigil from the necklace he wore when they first met that she had ALWAYS kept the whole time they were apart, but never visibly wore. He placed that on her chest where it likely hung when they were together, and then departed to drag the unconscious Clive back to the hideout... but after this, she was decapitated and her head was put in a box and sent to Hugo Kupka AND the person who delivered it reported that Cid was the one who paid to have it done... which clearly doesn't add up at all. It's here that we learn that the relationship between Benedikta & Hugo was catalyzed because both og them shared a dream which was that Hugo would be king of the world, her lion, and Benedikta would be his queen... which points to another very familiar shift, as being the lover of a King looking to restore and rule the world with the power of the Dominants is what transpired when Cid's & Benna's relationship ended... but why is she willing to do the number one most dangerous thing in betraying Odin's Dominant for Titan's Dominant?
In his rage when he receives the box Hugo shouts, "I let you <Cid> run amok with the rest of your rats, and this is how you repay me!?" which makes it clear that Benedikta was already convincing Hugo to turn a blind eye to what Cid was doing... but why? Why would she POSSIBLY be motivated to protect someone who represents everything that she opposes with absolute conviction? – Because Cid had sent Mid to go study engineering in Kanver, which is a city in the Dhalmekian Republic, and Hugo Khupka is the special advisor of that realm. Benedikta is romancing Hugo to make sure that MID says safe when she's no longer still directly with her dad, Ramuh's Dominant. Otherwise, there's a possibility that Odin's Dominant, King Tharmr would use her daughter like every other Dominant's companion to force Cid to come back – which she knows better than anyone as one of his most high-ranking and loyal assassins.
Without being able to safely see Mid herself, Garuda was the only thing Benedikta had left AND her power as Garuda's Dominant was the only way she could have the leverage with the other Dominants in order to keep Mid safe from being used to take Cid. So, when Clive takes Garuda she starts losing her mind as she's losing her personal safety, Mid's safety, AND Garuda. Her grief is mourning all three while, as always, never overtly acknowledging the other detail, "She– She's gone... Give her back... Give her back! Give her back! Where is she!? Where is Garuda!?" Benedikta is inconsolable and barely able to stay present and when thinking of Barnabas she says, "He'll know. He'll cast me out like all the others. What am I going to do?" just before Gerulf and all of her unit helping her get murdered, leaving her defenseless. When that happens and she panicks she has the flashback to meeting Cid for the first time where he tells her, "It's alright. They can't hurt you any more. Come on. Let's go home." followed by the memory of his safe hand letting go of hers, and her saying "Is this it, Cidolfus? My punishment for not listening to you?"
While at a surface level it seems like all the other Dominants that Benedikta was attaching herself to in Ramuh, Odin, or Titan is just whoever seemed to be the strongest, Benedikta is TERRIFIED of being powerless against someone stronger than her and not being able to control that situation. That fear of Odin as the uncontested king of Waloed who has ruled far beyond the lifespan of a normal human, let alone that of a regular Dominant who burns out their own body with that power is why she didn't follow Cid when he defected. That's also why she sees losing Garuda as her punishment and why she just wants the whole world to die and goes utterly berserk, and Cid & Clive both instantly sense, and Cid knows she can't control it. Clive goes to stop her and fails, instead he becomes Ifrit, and loses control EXACTLY like Benedikta did, and Cid knew how boundless and unstoppable Benedikta's rage was better than anyone.
There are only TWO times that Cid fully Primes into Ramuh, and while killing Ultima was the second – the first is triggered by the instant that Clive can't control himself as Ifrit and starts pummelling Garuda's helpless body. When Cid drags Clive back to the hideout, Clive is stripped of his clothing and restrained like a prisoner, because those emotions are still intense for Cid at losing Benedikta because Clive went berserk – especially since Cid was trying to capture her safely, so his own personal feelings towards Benedikta are clear. It's Clive's admission of being a monster and killing the person he loved, of knowing the same pain Cid feels, suffering the same struggles that Benedikta did in being a danger to those she loved most in the world and wanting to die that makes Cid punch him in the face and let him go. That's why Benedikta couldn't ever be around Mid herself, and HAD to trust that Cid would always make sure she was kept safe in looking over her. Benedikta still did what she could to keep their daughter safe from a distance, and both of them knew that either of them fighting one another would only make Mid less safe.
This fear is why she chose to listen to the more powerful King Tharmr rather than her lover Cid – but both Odin & Titan know that her feelings still wander to something about Cid but they can never tell what. Benedikta's pain and feeling of betrayal is still genuine as even while expressing disappointment in Titan's performance against Shiva, when Cid's lightning appears and they're going to lose Shiva's Dominant, even when her closes Waloed intelligence officer Gerulf calls out the lightning she turns attention elsewhere and says of Cid, "You always were a fucking snake." Later on when he and Clive run into her again, when Cid & Benedikta have their VERY detailed argument that leads into a direct fight against one another with their powers Self-Primed. The dialogue shared between both of them are still just each of them projecting hurt bits & pieces of what happened in their falling out based upon how they understand one another at a distance from pained assumptions about the other side – because neither of them really knows the truth about the other, nor can they trust the other to speak openly about it. Even then, Benedikta STILL doesn't finish Cid off, nor does she capture him despite him being Ramuh's Dominant. Her anger and fear is why she's conflicted on her feelings, but especially about Cid specifically. Their shared yet disconnected love towards one another are still an unspoken and only an indirectly mutually understood plausible deniability that allow them both to keep protecting Mid in their own way and reinforcing why they need each other. So long as it's never openly stated – Benedikta can remain exclusively aware of that information and keep it to herself the Commander of Waloed's elite intelligencers, while directing focus elsewhere as a part of protecting herself & Cid.
On top of that when besting Cid, Benedikta leaves two Chirada to finish off Clive, just like how she used a single Chirada to take him on the first time, showing that her most common manifestation of her power is making little copies of herself. When she loses control they appear everywhere... but now without names, and Cid says that there's one (Wind Elemental) for every fragment of her shattered mind. When Benedikta intentionally summoned her the first time she says, "Dance, Chirada!" showing that she gave them a name like they were a stand in for her own daughter... and that name is something that disappears once she's berserk and they're only called Wind Elementals, and even her Eikon form as Garuda can no longer speak but is so lost that everything else she had is utterly gone. This is unlike what we see in Titan who just grows ever more massive & powerful when he loses his mind as Titan Lost, Benedikta's mind is fragmented into all of the different versions of herself, but they're also projections that heavily suggest she thinks about her child who she can't ever see or even speak of.
The way that she has to live with people who use her, and where she HAS to rely on having her Dominant powers and being unknowable is not for what she wants – but only for what she wants to avoid. That means she must constantly shape version of herself that everyone else can see into half-truths and be copies of copies of copies herself that change for everyone all the time. That's why she clings so tightly to the power she has, because it's so deeply insecure and could all fall to pieces if she's not in control... and it DOES the second she dies.
It's easy to just see Benedikta as a selfish seductress for being willing to make Cidolfus, Barnabas, & Hugo fall for her, but she's still ONLY thinking of Cid when she's at her lowest point and thinks she's going to die, she remembers them parting ways and thinks that her losing her power is her punishment, which means she doubts the choices she made. That would make the most sense if Cid is the one who's keeping their kid safe from everything – even the people around her. He's trying to build a better world for the Branded & Dominants that doesn't align with King Barnabas Tharmr's motives, and so she can't know who to trust or how to navigate things safely and eventually it's all too much and she loses that fight to a mirror of that damage in Clive. – And this brings us back to the events surrounding Benedikta's post-death desecration that Cid explicitly stopped Ifrit from carrying out.
So... who had the clear motive to mutilate her corpse and frame Cid by triggering Hugo into conflict as a means of directing the war elsewhere, sending in Orcs into the Dhalmekian Republic, and bettering his chances of getting to Mythos who now held the power of the Dominants he was looking to consolidate? – None other than King Barnabas Tharmr, the Dominant of Odin. The individual explicitly known for his blade capable of severing ANYTHING. Barnabas severing Benedikta's head from her shoulders when he saw a certain necklace sigil that Cid left with her, which he would have known from their first meeting. That is pretty heavily implied as a motive since he doesn't abide betrayal, and without being able to deny her loyalty to Cid and knowing about Titan, his suspicions will write the narrative that serves him best.
Especially after everything shown in how King Barnabas Tharmr kidnapped Jill ONLY to use her as leverage to draw out Clive, the idea that Odin was willing to decapitate Benedikta's corpse just to send the head of his own lover to someone else as a means to accomplish his goals is totally plausible. On top of that, Clive hadn't betrayed him so he had no reason to harm Jill... but that's FAR from true of his former Lord Commander who defected. It's obvious why Benedikta would NEVER even so much as think to suggest that her & Cid had a child ESPECIALLY as it seems that she remained at Barnabas' side solely out of fear of his strength and not trust in listening to Cid. Had the depth of her & Cid's relationship ever been mentioned, Mid would ABSOLUTELY have been used as leverage to drag Cid back after he deserted and betrayed Odin... and that would also have made Benedikta vulnerable as well.
The second Benedikta wasn't around to protect Cid by influence and turning a blind eye, Barnabas used Hugo's love of her to turn fuel blind vengeance in order to commit Hugo's own spies and intelligence network to laying traps and relentlessly hunting down Cid in order to destroy the traitorous Lord Commander's base and murder everyone there who was close to him. Critically, that attack also would have killed Mid, had she not already been sent away to Kanver, the one place where Benedikta's love she shared with Hugo was still indirectly keeping their daughter safe.
And at the end of the day, this adds weight to why the SECOND Mid shows up and before you even see her, she's using her charm to have other people cover her transportation fees. She's also always taking off to do anything she feels like in subtle defiance of authority, while also getting everyone else working together to help her achieve the impossible goal that only she truly knows through sharp wit and charming influence even in the face of unspeakable danger – so she really is the spitting image of BOTH of her parents.
While we know that she's Cid's child and takes his last name, that's all we're ever directly told. With Cid dead, it's possible that Mid might not even know who her mother is. Insofar as I'm aware there's no direct confirmation in any side quests, notes, or riddles left behind from Cid to Mid, so I went about dissecting all of the subtext information that I could find, and here's what I can lay out in detail:
On Midadol Telamon:
In both her physical appearance and also in her accent it also seems to be implied that she's Cid's & Benedikta's child from back when the two of them were together. Whereas Mid's accent is always pretty strong, you only get clearer glimpses of how much Benedikta has the same accent when she is especially distraught and screaming at Clive after their fight. Even moreso than that is the way that Cid still VERY clearly loves her when he leaves the bloodied necklace with her body after she's killed by Ifrit, which is very tender that belies the complicated mix of feelings that's going on, and is why it's important to look at the history that we know about them.
When Cidolfus & Benedikta first came to Waloed when they were already together with her pale hand pressed into his as if she would never let go. They came there because Odin's Dominant, King Barnabas Tharmr was seeking to bring the other Dominants together and unite them all. Benedikta listened to what King Tharmr said and became the loyal Commander of Waloed's elite intelligencers – hence Cid's comments to her when he finds her dead being, "Why...? Why'd you have to listen to him? Benna... This can't be what you wanted... can it?" Despite them both having key positions, Cid disagreed with King Tharmr's objective to unite the Dominants as a means to restore the world, and left to follow his own objective which Benedikta felt as a betrayal of "Us" in both herself and of King Tharmr, earning him the title "Cid the Vicious" (likely another fun reference to Sid Vicious). So, what was it that was so significant that split those two lovers apart?
The depth of that betrayal is emphasized when Cid & Benedikta meet and Cid intervenes to save Clive, so she brings up the parallel to how he rescued her (which she later flashes back to before going berserk) and asks him by his Waloed title of Lord Commander why he betrayed his kingdom, and he plays coy about the nature of his disagreement. However, that position explains why Cid instantly, reactively Primed to impale Typhon when it emerged as well as when Ultima revealed itself and attempted to take Clive, despite being wounded Cid said, "I know who you are. And if you think I'm going to let you have him... Think again." and died to stab him in the throat – because uniting the Dominants with Ultima through Mythos was King Tharmr's entire plan, which is why Cid left when Benedikta stayed in Waloed and why he started to try to destroy the Mother Crystals.
When Benedikta vanishes after their standoff, Cid sends Gav to track her rather than trying to follow himself or allow Clive to pursue, and they're clearly BOTH staying out of conflict with each other... despite the fact that King Tharmr values loyalty above all else and Benedikta ruthlessly enforces that by murdering anyone else who betrays someone. On top of that, the mission she's on has Benedikta explicitly attempting to capture other Dominants to unite them for King Tharmr – by kidnapping their companions to draw them out. She's overtly leaving Cid alone despite KNOWING he's Ramuh's Dominant, and the depth of Waloed's Lord Commander and Ramuh's Dominant betraying them. Benedikta's prior relationship to Cid isn't leverage enough to be able to bring him back in, she's the Commander of King Tharmr's intelligencers who value loyalty above everything else... except that while Benedikta remained together with King Tharmr when Cid deserted which is why she arrives in the room at the game's opening, she leaves her king's side to openly flirt with Hugo – why is she risking flirting with Hugo and being unloyal in her relationship to the king she stayed with rather than follow Cid who she already trusted prior to meeting?
This gets more clear when we learn specific details when Clive takes the blame for killing her when facing against Hugo after Cid's death. While Clive did murder Benedikta, we know for a fact that her body was left tenderly when Cid found the sigil from the necklace he wore when they first met that she had ALWAYS kept the whole time they were apart, but never visibly wore. He placed that on her chest where it likely hung when they were together, and then departed to drag the unconscious Clive back to the hideout... but after this, she was decapitated and her head was put in a box and sent to Hugo Kupka AND the person who delivered it reported that Cid was the one who paid to have it done... which clearly doesn't add up at all. It's here that we learn that the relationship between Benedikta & Hugo was catalyzed because both og them shared a dream which was that Hugo would be king of the world, her lion, and Benedikta would be his queen... which points to another very familiar shift, as being the lover of a King looking to restore and rule the world with the power of the Dominants is what transpired when Cid's & Benna's relationship ended... but why is she willing to do the number one most dangerous thing in betraying Odin's Dominant for Titan's Dominant?
In his rage when he receives the box Hugo shouts, "I let you <Cid> run amok with the rest of your rats, and this is how you repay me!?" which makes it clear that Benedikta was already convincing Hugo to turn a blind eye to what Cid was doing... but why? Why would she POSSIBLY be motivated to protect someone who represents everything that she opposes with absolute conviction? – Because Cid had sent Mid to go study engineering in Kanver, which is a city in the Dhalmekian Republic, and Hugo Khupka is the special advisor of that realm. Benedikta is romancing Hugo to make sure that MID says safe when she's no longer still directly with her dad, Ramuh's Dominant. Otherwise, there's a possibility that Odin's Dominant, King Tharmr would use her daughter like every other Dominant's companion to force Cid to come back – which she knows better than anyone as one of his most high-ranking and loyal assassins.
Without being able to safely see Mid herself, Garuda was the only thing Benedikta had left AND her power as Garuda's Dominant was the only way she could have the leverage with the other Dominants in order to keep Mid safe from being used to take Cid. So, when Clive takes Garuda she starts losing her mind as she's losing her personal safety, Mid's safety, AND Garuda. Her grief is mourning all three while, as always, never overtly acknowledging the other detail, "She– She's gone... Give her back... Give her back! Give her back! Where is she!? Where is Garuda!?" Benedikta is inconsolable and barely able to stay present and when thinking of Barnabas she says, "He'll know. He'll cast me out like all the others. What am I going to do?" just before Gerulf and all of her unit helping her get murdered, leaving her defenseless. When that happens and she panicks she has the flashback to meeting Cid for the first time where he tells her, "It's alright. They can't hurt you any more. Come on. Let's go home." followed by the memory of his safe hand letting go of hers, and her saying "Is this it, Cidolfus? My punishment for not listening to you?"
While at a surface level it seems like all the other Dominants that Benedikta was attaching herself to in Ramuh, Odin, or Titan is just whoever seemed to be the strongest, Benedikta is TERRIFIED of being powerless against someone stronger than her and not being able to control that situation. That fear of Odin as the uncontested king of Waloed who has ruled far beyond the lifespan of a normal human, let alone that of a regular Dominant who burns out their own body with that power is why she didn't follow Cid when he defected. That's also why she sees losing Garuda as her punishment and why she just wants the whole world to die and goes utterly berserk, and Cid & Clive both instantly sense, and Cid knows she can't control it. Clive goes to stop her and fails, instead he becomes Ifrit, and loses control EXACTLY like Benedikta did, and Cid knew how boundless and unstoppable Benedikta's rage was better than anyone.
There are only TWO times that Cid fully Primes into Ramuh, and while killing Ultima was the second – the first is triggered by the instant that Clive can't control himself as Ifrit and starts pummelling Garuda's helpless body. When Cid drags Clive back to the hideout, Clive is stripped of his clothing and restrained like a prisoner, because those emotions are still intense for Cid at losing Benedikta because Clive went berserk – especially since Cid was trying to capture her safely, so his own personal feelings towards Benedikta are clear. It's Clive's admission of being a monster and killing the person he loved, of knowing the same pain Cid feels, suffering the same struggles that Benedikta did in being a danger to those she loved most in the world and wanting to die that makes Cid punch him in the face and let him go. That's why Benedikta couldn't ever be around Mid herself, and HAD to trust that Cid would always make sure she was kept safe in looking over her. Benedikta still did what she could to keep their daughter safe from a distance, and both of them knew that either of them fighting one another would only make Mid less safe.
This fear is why she chose to listen to the more powerful King Tharmr rather than her lover Cid – but both Odin & Titan know that her feelings still wander to something about Cid but they can never tell what. Benedikta's pain and feeling of betrayal is still genuine as even while expressing disappointment in Titan's performance against Shiva, when Cid's lightning appears and they're going to lose Shiva's Dominant, even when her closes Waloed intelligence officer Gerulf calls out the lightning she turns attention elsewhere and says of Cid, "You always were a fucking snake." Later on when he and Clive run into her again, when Cid & Benedikta have their VERY detailed argument that leads into a direct fight against one another with their powers Self-Primed. The dialogue shared between both of them are still just each of them projecting hurt bits & pieces of what happened in their falling out based upon how they understand one another at a distance from pained assumptions about the other side – because neither of them really knows the truth about the other, nor can they trust the other to speak openly about it. Even then, Benedikta STILL doesn't finish Cid off, nor does she capture him despite him being Ramuh's Dominant. Her anger and fear is why she's conflicted on her feelings, but especially about Cid specifically. Their shared yet disconnected love towards one another are still an unspoken and only an indirectly mutually understood plausible deniability that allow them both to keep protecting Mid in their own way and reinforcing why they need each other. So long as it's never openly stated – Benedikta can remain exclusively aware of that information and keep it to herself the Commander of Waloed's elite intelligencers, while directing focus elsewhere as a part of protecting herself & Cid.
On top of that when besting Cid, Benedikta leaves two Chirada to finish off Clive, just like how she used a single Chirada to take him on the first time, showing that her most common manifestation of her power is making little copies of herself. When she loses control they appear everywhere... but now without names, and Cid says that there's one (Wind Elemental) for every fragment of her shattered mind. When Benedikta intentionally summoned her the first time she says, "Dance, Chirada!" showing that she gave them a name like they were a stand in for her own daughter... and that name is something that disappears once she's berserk and they're only called Wind Elementals, and even her Eikon form as Garuda can no longer speak but is so lost that everything else she had is utterly gone. This is unlike what we see in Titan who just grows ever more massive & powerful when he loses his mind as Titan Lost, Benedikta's mind is fragmented into all of the different versions of herself, but they're also projections that heavily suggest she thinks about her child who she can't ever see or even speak of.
The way that she has to live with people who use her, and where she HAS to rely on having her Dominant powers and being unknowable is not for what she wants – but only for what she wants to avoid. That means she must constantly shape version of herself that everyone else can see into half-truths and be copies of copies of copies herself that change for everyone all the time. That's why she clings so tightly to the power she has, because it's so deeply insecure and could all fall to pieces if she's not in control... and it DOES the second she dies.
It's easy to just see Benedikta as a selfish seductress for being willing to make Cidolfus, Barnabas, & Hugo fall for her, but she's still ONLY thinking of Cid when she's at her lowest point and thinks she's going to die, she remembers them parting ways and thinks that her losing her power is her punishment, which means she doubts the choices she made. That would make the most sense if Cid is the one who's keeping their kid safe from everything – even the people around her. He's trying to build a better world for the Branded & Dominants that doesn't align with King Barnabas Tharmr's motives, and so she can't know who to trust or how to navigate things safely and eventually it's all too much and she loses that fight to a mirror of that damage in Clive. – And this brings us back to the events surrounding Benedikta's post-death desecration that Cid explicitly stopped Ifrit from carrying out.
So... who had the clear motive to mutilate her corpse and frame Cid by triggering Hugo into conflict as a means of directing the war elsewhere, sending in Orcs into the Dhalmekian Republic, and bettering his chances of getting to Mythos who now held the power of the Dominants he was looking to consolidate? – None other than King Barnabas Tharmr, the Dominant of Odin. The individual explicitly known for his blade capable of severing ANYTHING. Barnabas severing Benedikta's head from her shoulders when he saw a certain necklace sigil that Cid left with her, which he would have known from their first meeting. That is pretty heavily implied as a motive since he doesn't abide betrayal, and without being able to deny her loyalty to Cid and knowing about Titan, his suspicions will write the narrative that serves him best.
Especially after everything shown in how King Barnabas Tharmr kidnapped Jill ONLY to use her as leverage to draw out Clive, the idea that Odin was willing to decapitate Benedikta's corpse just to send the head of his own lover to someone else as a means to accomplish his goals is totally plausible. On top of that, Clive hadn't betrayed him so he had no reason to harm Jill... but that's FAR from true of his former Lord Commander who defected. It's obvious why Benedikta would NEVER even so much as think to suggest that her & Cid had a child ESPECIALLY as it seems that she remained at Barnabas' side solely out of fear of his strength and not trust in listening to Cid. Had the depth of her & Cid's relationship ever been mentioned, Mid would ABSOLUTELY have been used as leverage to drag Cid back after he deserted and betrayed Odin... and that would also have made Benedikta vulnerable as well.
The second Benedikta wasn't around to protect Cid by influence and turning a blind eye, Barnabas used Hugo's love of her to turn fuel blind vengeance in order to commit Hugo's own spies and intelligence network to laying traps and relentlessly hunting down Cid in order to destroy the traitorous Lord Commander's base and murder everyone there who was close to him. Critically, that attack also would have killed Mid, had she not already been sent away to Kanver, the one place where Benedikta's love she shared with Hugo was still indirectly keeping their daughter safe.
And at the end of the day, this adds weight to why the SECOND Mid shows up and before you even see her, she's using her charm to have other people cover her transportation fees. She's also always taking off to do anything she feels like in subtle defiance of authority, while also getting everyone else working together to help her achieve the impossible goal that only she truly knows through sharp wit and charming influence even in the face of unspeakable danger – so she really is the spitting image of BOTH of her parents.
So... yup. Really love the depth of subtle details in the story, especially upon revisiting the little nuanced details for fun reference and also for specific dissection of detail that makes me love the characters and the layers of detail even more. Hopefully that's an enjoyable read for anyone who's made it that far!!
X
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
Wol
None Shall Remember Those Who Do Not Fight
- AKA
- Rosarian Shield
Just beat Atlas at level 34! The hunts have been delivering one of the best fights of the whole game. Requiring you to search them out in the field is much better than how XV did it. Plus they arent merely reskins and fight completely different than regular mobs.
Also have been doing more sidequests and honestly I think they are an improvement over latest entries.
While simple in design, they are always in-context, offering some hints about the world and its characters. The hideaway ones have fleshed-out important NPCs, strengthening the sense of community. Live and Let Live in Boklad actually was super rewarding, despite how `lazy` it was. I found a Fallen weapon on the road and learned that Goblins
For the main story, I'm really liking what I've seen of Dion. Seems a conflicted character, and it sure will be interesting to see what his choices will be considering everything.
Also have been doing more sidequests and honestly I think they are an improvement over latest entries.
While simple in design, they are always in-context, offering some hints about the world and its characters. The hideaway ones have fleshed-out important NPCs, strengthening the sense of community. Live and Let Live in Boklad actually was super rewarding, despite how `lazy` it was. I found a Fallen weapon on the road and learned that Goblins
aren't all savages.
For the main story, I'm really liking what I've seen of Dion. Seems a conflicted character, and it sure will be interesting to see what his choices will be considering everything.
Lulcielid
Eyes of the Lord
- AKA
- Lulcy
[Japan sales] FF16 sold 337K copies on retail on launch week.
ForceStealer
Double Growth
Sony's console being roughly the size of a Tokyo apartment not doing great for their JP install base, it seems 