Final Fantasy XVI

[Wol]

Ok, having arrived at a point in the story that

Spoiler

was criticised for changing tone by some.

Spoiler

I couldn't disagree more actually. Clive basically broke the foundations of the realm, rendering the powers at play completely broken without their mothercrystals. Bigger problems arised as consequence so it makes sense for the focus to shift (even after the sky turns pink there are sidequests about Bearers anyway).

But did it really shift? The theme of slavery was about fighting for the right to choose and that same theme continues in a more metaphysical way with Ultima, a master of "slaves" (akashic) that wants to strip humanity of its will. So I don't see any incongruence, things evolved quite naturally even (maybe its just me loving pretentious metaphysical villain discourse too much). I'm still digesting the entire Interdimensional Rift revelations, that was a fucking trip man. Game is absolutely bonkers in the best possible way.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Nearing the end of the game, and I just saw the villain fold his arms and then I saw it...

Spoiler: I knew he looked familiar!

 

[Leafonthebreeze]

Just got to "After the Storm", aka just finished the bit everyone told me to wait for when I was complaining about Jill:

Spoiler: Spoilers

Ok that was fairly cool, and I can understand her being completely blank all through the game so far as a trauma response, so fair play. Also based on her reaction to the almost kiss, they're not meant to be together yet, which is fine by me. I did the cloth side quest instead of going to see her in the infirmary (lol) but I'm curious where my cloth choice is going to show up. FFVIIR dress scene when. I did choose based on what I thought Clive would look good in rather than Jill though.

Mostly I hope they follow through with the character development and have her be a a more of an active participant now that she's put her demons to rest, but that remains to be seen. It doesn't help that the sidequests all have to pretend she isn't there for game mechanic reasons so she just stands there awkwardly in the background.

Oh yeah and Joshua best boy. Love that he's running around having his own Sci fi adventure while Clive is stuck in high fantasy. And I can't resist a pretty boy who coughs up blood

 

[X-SOLDIER]

There's a key element to FFXVI's world that works initially, but seems weirder the more I think about it. It's one of the first introductory concepts in the game, and it's something that only clicks once you've seen all of the Dominants, but specifically after the Garuda fight Garuda.

Spoiler

How is it that the branded are STILL treated as second class slaves?

First of all this is often a super important detail for the societal non-conformance elements that are really prominent parts of the driving motivations in Japanese narratives about rebellion against the status quo, so that angle makes sense from a storytelling perspective. Secondly, the narrative presentation does an exceptional job in making you feel super uncomfortable with that gap in treating people SO differently, and in the classism and mistreatment with how other people talk and treat their fellow humans like property.

Establishing how this works in Naruto is helpful in highlighting the places where things are similar but don't QUITE line up in FFXVI:

In Naruto the Jinchuriki are essentially the living WMDs who are outcast and can't form social bonds to others because of the fear that surrounds them being dangerous and how tightly they're controlled by the system. While there are a couple exceptions to those who have power or acceptance (the 3rd Mizukage was a Jinchuriki but that village was known through rule by fear & power, the brother of the Raikage was about the only one who has overt social acceptance out of the 9 Jinchuriki in that setting).

They're even outcast by the Shinobi in Naruto wield magic powers, and the Shinobi themselves are tools of the nation state controlled by the Daimyo and other national governments where they have very little power and are more like the branches of the covert military so even the Kage of those hidden villages have very little power to enact systemic change that prevents the Shinobi from being seen as tools. Their experience of that oppression is in the role they serve society because their tasks are entirely separated from the things that the day-to-day people and regular civilians take part in.

So what about in FFXVI?

It seems oddly improbably that this is a system that would stay in place, but not because you'd expect the magic wielding Branded to seize power from those who rely on crystals. That level of generational systemic oppression can easily fall into place and get into a place that leaves the disadvantaged trapped in accepting it to get by rather than questioning it because they don't have the power to enact sweeping systemic change... but the Dominants do.

The Phoenix is directly attached to the publicly beloved royal line of Rosaria who ruled over that territory and Lord Rosfield was only a placeholder on the throne, Titan is the special advisor to the Dhalmekian Republic who overrules them in the war council that you see right from the start, Bahamut is the publicly lauded Prince of the Empire, Odin is the uncontested king of Waloed, Garuda is the head of the Waloed Intelligencers, Ramuh is the defected former Lord Commander of Waloed. The ability for them to just systemically upend things via political control is not only ridiculously in their favor, but the Dominants stand to directly benefit from gaining the instant acceptance of the Branded they bring to themselves.

They already use Branded as military conscripts which we see with Clive by placing them into elite fighting forces similar to the Shinobi. The difference is that the most utterly terrifyingly powerful versions of that command ENORMOUS respect rather than being exponentially more oppressed than even the Branded. Naruto's implementation of that works because the humanity of the Shinobi is stripped away by them being tools to the greater society, and the Jinchuriki are the Shinobi's own mistrusted tools with a layer of outcast and dehumanized isolation a whole layer underneath that.

Bahamut & Odin are cheered when they enter the battlefield and do so under their own power and motive, rather than being forced onto the battlefield. The whole discussion by the military council in the opening is him showing that the leadership of the Dhalmekian Republic can't really control Titan at all, and while there's massive collateral damage they just discussed how those troops were essentially all going to die anyway.

The ONLY one who's really in a position of exploitation is Shiva the way that she's enslaved by the Ironbloods and kept in line because her fellow countrymen are held as hostages who get tortured & murdered in front of her if she doesn't comply. Her awakened powers are something that she is always forced to use by people who hate her. She never uses it by choice like the other Dominants do. While she is accepted by her fellow enslaved branded, this power dynamic means that there's a mechanism where Shiva's noncompliance will breed resentment from everyone else to make her an outcast if she doesn't cooperate, because they're the ones who die because of it.

The opening act of the game establishes those themes in a believable way where Titan could be seen as a danger that's barely able to be contained, especially after seeing how Phoenix goes insane and then Ifrit murders him, paired with how Shiva is manipulated and Clive is sent as an branded Imperial assassin to slit her throat when he already has a reason to have a deep grudge against the Dominants because of his brother's death. EVERYTHING about the opening sets that up spectacularly... leading to believing why Ramuh's dominant is attempting to turn against that systemic oppression and allow the Branded & Dominants to die on their own terms...

...but then all of the following narrative structure outside of that just doesn't ever seem to address the ways where it totally upends all of that dynamic the more that we see how the distribution of power shakes out. Especially as things like Phoenix going crazy seem like the vast exception to the norm rather than the rule given how beloved he is, and Titan commands overwhelming authority simply because no one else in the Dhalmekian Republic CAN stop him, all of the systems reinforce how the Dominants command respect and authority essentially no matter what they do – and it's hard to believe that the society who embraces that not only treats the Branded as undesirables but that the Branded themselves aren't empowered by proxy of that being directly advantageous to the Dominants holding even more power.

That's why it comes down to supply & demand with the Crystals which is something else that's an intentional design part of the world. The Dominants have insane magic power without the need to tap an external resource, thus they have a disproportionate advantage in seizing and maintaining control over the Mothercrystals – as do the Branded. The only way that works is if the authoritarian ruling Dominant fears rebellion by the Branded whose access to magic they don't control and thus keep them enslaved under the humans by reinforcing that fear as a means to keep the humans reliant on the crystals AND keeping the Branded in check. That seems like it's a possible thing that may have happened at one point in time... but there's no real direct evidence of it at all in the current landscape.

While the impression of that is there with the Branded always being oppressed and they're always just SHOWN in vulnerable positions against fully armored knights... you never really see the oppressed Branded using magic naturally when they're being pushed around or what happens when they do that... even though that's literally their defining characteristic.

It's just one of those things that makes less and less sense the more I've been thinking about it, and it only really works because the game never seems to present an opportunity for you to really question how it's undermining the premise after it establishes an initially believable perspective – especially since that's how it depends on defining you as the status-quo--upturning hero.

X

 

[Odysseus]

I did it, I savedd da world

Spoiler

I was pleasantly surprised by how open the ending is. The big bad is dead, but so are Clive, Dion and Joshua (maybe...?), blight still ravages the world with no solution, the realm is in shambles, bearers are still hated by many, and that's just where it leaves you.

Dion was based I liked him.

I never managed to care about Jill much, the game robbed her time and time again.

Ultima was cool, even if he was kind of a bitch at the end.

Yeah.

 

[Makoeyes987]

That's interesting because that's not how I took the ending at all

I just beat it yesterday, but there's some very interesting points about the ending to consider.

Spoiler: spoiler for the ending of course

Jill's reaction of relief and happiness at daybreak is tied to the final sidequest with her where she gives Clive the garland and he makes a promise to return to her by dawn. Dominants can sense one another as shown with how Joshua and Clive were able to sense that Jill was still alive after she was captured by Barnabas. So there's a link that allows them to sense each other and given her smile at the daybreak, it looks like that Clive kept his promise as he said he would.

Not to mention the game's as subtle as a sledgehammer about the theme of Clive finding a reason to live for himself and not just living to die or sacrifice himself. Multiple characters, including Joshua, Jill and Wade make Clive promise that he'll live and not do a self sacrifice, so it'd be pretty strange for them to just go, "just kidding" about that.

Then there's the fact the metia star disappears in answering Jill's wish. Bear in mind that throughout the story, whenever Jill made a wish, that never happened and her wish never was granted. But finally, at the end of the story, when she prays for Clive's return, the star vanishes and then she looks on at dawn with relief. This is the first time that the wish has finally been granted and it shows itself here.

And then finally there's the book, the most important piece of evidence. "Final Fantasy." That wasn't just a cute title drop, during the final battle, Clive says one of the most badass lines in the entire game.

"The only fantasy is yours. And we shall be its final witness."

Clive says this line to Ultima, and no one else is there to witness it. The only person who could've written that story and been aware of this quote drop for the title would be Clive. And in one of the sidequests where Clive gets the quill from Tomes, states how he intends to write his story in a book so everyone will know the truth about what happens. And.. this entire story, from beginning to end, is narrated by Clive himself. It's *extremely* likely that Clive wrote the book and published it under Joshua's name in honor of him.

So it all wraps back to Clive being the author of this book. The actual Joshua couldn't have wrote the book because he died. Maybe Clive succeeded in reviving Joshua but that seems unlikely given he didn't stir despite the healing and we see no indication of him moving himself or getting away from Origin.

Also the Blight clearly didn't ravage the world since we see in the distant future a world with greenery, life and people living in it. Where the adventures of Dominants and Eikons are now fairy tale. And it seems very likely those two children are Clive's and Jill's descendants. Throughout the story you see how Clive's group were figuring out ways of working around the Blight and preparing for a world without magic, so in the future their research has clearly paid off.

So at worst, Clive lost his hand. As long as he doesn't continually use magic and channel Aether, he'll live. We've seen folks with worst be able to survive and Clive and Jill certainly can live provided they don't use their magic anymore.

The ending is ambiguous but its an ambiguously positive/happy ending if anything.

 

[Lex]

That's interesting because that's not how I took the ending at all

I just beat it yesterday, but there's some very interesting points about the ending to consider.

Spoiler: spoiler for the ending of course

Jill's reaction of relief and happiness at daybreak is tied to the final sidequest with her where she gives Clive the garland and he makes a promise to return to her by dawn. Dominants can sense one another as shown with how Joshua and Clive were able to sense that Jill was still alive after she was captured by Barnabas. So there's a link that allows them to sense each other and given her smile at the daybreak, it looks like that Clive kept his promise as he said he would.

Not to mention the game's as subtle as a sledgehammer about the theme of Clive finding a reason to live for himself and not just living to die or sacrifice himself. Multiple characters, including Joshua, Jill and Wade make Clive promise that he'll live and not do a self sacrifice, so it'd be pretty strange for them to just go, "just kidding" about that.

Then there's the fact the metia star disappears in answering Jill's wish. Bear in mind that throughout the story, whenever Jill made a wish, that never happened and her wish never was granted. But finally, at the end of the story, when she prays for Clive's return, the star vanishes and then she looks on at dawn with relief. This is the first time that the wish has finally been granted and it shows itself here.

And then finally there's the book, the most important piece of evidence. "Final Fantasy." That wasn't just a cute title drop, during the final battle, Clive says one of the most badass lines in the entire game.

"The only fantasy is yours. And we shall be its final witness."

Clive says this line to Ultima, and no one else is there to witness it. The only person who could've written that story and been aware of this quote drop for the title would be Clive. And in one of the sidequests where Clive gets the quill from Tomes, states how he intends to write his story in a book so everyone will know the truth about what happens. And.. this entire story, from beginning to end, is narrated by Clive himself. It's *extremely* likely that Clive wrote the book and published it under Joshua's name in honor of him.

So it all wraps back to Clive being the author of this book. The actual Joshua couldn't have wrote the book because he died. Maybe Clive succeeded in reviving Joshua but that seems unlikely given he didn't stir despite the healing and we see no indication of him moving himself or getting away from Origin.

Also the Blight clearly didn't ravage the world since we see in the distant future a world with greenery, life and people living in it. Where the adventures of Dominants and Eikons are now fairy tale. And it seems very likely those two children are Clive's and Jill's descendants. Throughout the story you see how Clive's group were figuring out ways of working around the Blight and preparing for a world without magic, so in the future their research has clearly paid off.

So at worst, Clive lost his hand. As long as he doesn't continually use magic and channel Aether, he'll live. We've seen folks with worst be able to survive and Clive and Jill certainly can live provided they don't use their magic anymore.

The ending is ambiguous but its an ambiguously positive/happy ending if anything.

That was my interpretation too, and basically what I'm choosing to believe until there's evidence to the contrary.

Spoiler: Ending

I also don't think Dion is dead. His sidequests prior to the ending were death-flaggy but also not, and we don't see him actually die, just fall (lest we forget the MF has wings and survived getting pummelled by Ifrit Risen, hello). I think they did that for a reason.

Joshua on the other hand I do believe is actually dead. I know Clive uses magic with Ultima's power to heal him but my belief is that this was just to heal the wound as a mark of respect/ fulfilling his promise to Tarja that he would bring him back "in one piece" rather than attempt to bring him back from the dead, the story was very clear that the phoenix's power isn't able to do that. And it would really cheapen the scenes right before it if Clive suddenly managed to bring him back out of nowhere.

All that said I personally could have done with a more conclusive ending. I see some people like it, some people are ambivalent, I'm somewhere in-between. I think a story that was this dreary and dark in general could have done with a more uplifting conclusion. Even had it been with the bittersweetness of Clive having a petrified hand, Joshua being dead and Dion's fate unknown I think a scene with Clive reuniting with the hideaway crew (particularly Jill and Torgal) on his own would have gone a long way to improving the overall experience.

Don't get me wrong - it's not a terrible ending. But it could have been way better.

Spoiler: Mostly spoiler free incoherent musings, otherwise spoilers up until you get Ramuh's power

To be fair I'm not a fan of some of the directorial decisions that were made in the narrative. The story is awesome, the mythology is excellent, the characters are great with a lot of standouts and some middling. It's fantastic overall. But there are several changes I would make to the order the player is given knowledge to just make it all a bit more cohesive.

It ironically suffers from some of the same narrative pitfalls that XIII does, which is kinda hilarious considering the teams behind both of them are the antithesis of each other and have a wildly different approach. It's not as bad as XIII in that you don't need to read the lore to actually understand what's happening, but it has the same allure of getting you to anticipate a lore dump that either doesn't come, or comes at a point where they've already thrown more curveballs at you so the impact is lost. It's particularly bad for this in the early game, and there are some contrivances I'm still not clear on.

I've seen people criticising the game for being "too tell, not enough show" but I don't actually agree. There are moments where I felt I needed more direct exposition, or for the characters to ackowledge certain things that are baffling and they just don't do that.

For example, we now know that Ultima was "the hooded man" at Phoenix Gate in the prologue, apparently also led him to Garuda and showed up again at various points in the story. Joshua is also "the hooded man", but a different one who looks exactly the same. I can quite easily posit that Ultima would take this form to lure Clive where he wanted him to go at certain points, that's fine, but I can't reconcile him taking that form when Clive is 15 years old. It serves no benefit other than to confuse the player about the identity of this person and becomes completely baffling when it's revealed to be Joshua WAY before you're even introduced to Ultima. I'd be able to forgive this IF at ANY point one of the characters simply ackowledged this. All it would have taken would have been a small scene with Clive discussing it with anyone else and going over where they'd seen this person.

 

[looneymoon]

Spoiler

After the absolute shitfest that was Bayonetta 3, I cannot stress how happy I am that FF16 delivers on the kaiju battles in the way that it does. Soooooo fucking cool.

Leaving Cid's camp is when it feels like the journey really starts for me. The game has settled into a cozy rhythm. I have to say, I haven't felt like I've played a Final Fantasy game that has felt like it has this kind of take off since PS2 era. The world feels properly lived in. This is something that deserves to be commended, I think!

I'm kind of surprised at how quickly plot elements are unraveling. I figured that the irony of Clive not knowing that he was the one who killed his brother would be drawn out and pay off much later in the story. Same with Joshua being the hooded guy, which was easy to predict. I figured both these revelations would be more climactic, given how the premise kinda hinges on that suspense. Hard to say anything about this yet until I know where this is all leading. I just beat nega-Clive/Ifrit and the beats of the story are feeling a little strange. It was cool and bombastic and all, but was like... he learned the truth several story missions ago? And despite being kinda sad about it, he was basically still going on doing what he was doing before the revelation. Idk man.

Cid is anarchist daddy. I think he might be the best Cid tbh.

Jill is like, the girl next door with no personality and little motivation. Her reaction to learning that Clive was responsible for killing Joshua and essentially ruining her live was amounted to a shrug, more or less. It was super weird. Maybe she'll become more intriguing as time goes on? Right now, she feels like an afterthought that's just sorta there to give Clive a love interest. I don't find their relationship romantic or heartwarming at all. I guess they have sexual tension that somewhat mimics regular people, which is kinda novel for this series.

Also idk, so far the lore is pretty easy to follow, despite a decent amount of jargon but... at this point Pheonix, Ifrit, Shiva, Ramuh, Titan, Garuda, and Bahamut are all tied to central characters who all happen to have pre-existing relationship with one another. Is this just the case of all the important people happening to be within proximity to one another for the sake of convenience, or am I missing something here? I feel like a bit of exposition as to how these people came to be the way they are, and how they feel about it (other than Clive and maybe Joshua) could go a long way.

The combat has really grown on me and I am definitely liking it a lot more. I think its a very good foundation for a more robust system (that maybe includes controllable party members, status effects, buffs/debuffs etc). Despite not being turn based, the flow of battle has an almost turn based back-and-forth to it. Neat and cool!

The environments have a range which i think work right now. Most of it has been kinda generic fantasy looking landscapes, but when the art direction pops it really pops. Things seem to be opening up more slowly.

Spoiler: separating this out for more gameplay commentary

On side quests: I have seen complaints about them. Are they warranted? ehhh yeah, kinda. They arent great. I don't feel super stoked to be embarking on them. One thing that really bugs me is that I think it's a little silly that I have to select through a prompt to give the quest givers their shit when there's only one option.

Are they a step up compared to FF15? Undisputably. Are they better than FF7r? Honestly, yeah big time. I think the writing behind them is a lot more natural compared to FF7r, which I found largely very cringe. They do a decent job with situating Clive+Co as part of a living, breathing community that gives it that Final Fantasy oomf if you know what I mean. The narrative justification for them seems fine, and they try to make sure they flow in tandem with the main objectives. They also seem to come into clusters of a few at a time, and often laid out in a way so that it's convenient to knock through a couple at the same time. In that sense, they've been mostly inoffensive so far. That said, it still fails to address more structural issues.

The side quests structure of its game design philosophy has seemingly replaced any consideration for level/dungeon complexity and map exploration. You get to know the world by doing random crap for NPCs, instead of discovering little secrets in the geometry of the map. I mean you can, but unless I'm really missing something, the chests suck. The rhythm is that you do a few main story events, which then takes you to a new map, at which point the game offers some side quests to do before the next few story events. If you want to wander off the main path, the side quests are there to kinda tell you when to do that. They are delineated via map markers and priority lists, just like any other dime a dozen AAA video game. This isn't exactly a FF16 problem per se, it's more an issue of big budget games recycling trends which lead them all to feeling the same. This maybe more of a western prestige thing that FF16 maybe chasing? Either way it's super lame, but not anything I didn't expect from the trailers or gameplay footage.

As a whole I'd say the side quests structure is a cut above the rest of the entries preceeding it (going by FF7r and FF15 here). Maybe it's nostalgia but I felt like my favourites in the series were more mold breaking and doing their own thing. FF16 feels like it's completely in complete lock-step with the trends of the rest of the market, some of which are off putting, ya know?

Either way I'm finally properly into the game. I guess I'll have more final thoughts when I'm nearer the end. Sneaking into Oriflamme via some mines right now.

 

[looneymoon]

Spoiler: actual story spoilers

Why are they killing off the best characters left right and center? Boooooooooo.

I think this story could really use some more exposition. I'm not lost, there's just a lot not clicking for me.

At least... I'm looking through the lore helpers to make sure I'm not missing anything. I really don't think that's the problem, since reading them doesn't strike me as totally necessary. It just seems like large swaths of important information and character development are more alluded to than explicitly woven into the narrative.

Anyways Ultima seems fun. He's like the guy who's defeated by the power of Kate Bush in Stranger Things.

 

[Wol]

Spoiler

After the absolute shitfest that was Bayonetta 3, I cannot stress how happy I am that FF16 delivers on the kaiju battles in the way that it does. Soooooo fucking cool.

Leaving Cid's camp is when it feels like the journey really starts for me. The game has settled into a cozy rhythm. I have to say, I haven't felt like I've played a Final Fantasy game that has felt like it has this kind of take off since PS2 era. The world feels properly lived in. This is something that deserves to be commended, I think!

I'm kind of surprised at how quickly plot elements are unraveling. I figured that the irony of Clive not knowing that he was the one who killed his brother would be drawn out and pay off much later in the story. Same with Joshua being the hooded guy, which was easy to predict. I figured both these revelations would be more climactic, given how the premise kinda hinges on that suspense. Hard to say anything about this yet until I know where this is all leading. I just beat nega-Clive/Ifrit and the beats of the story are feeling a little strange. It was cool and bombastic and all, but was like... he learned the truth several story missions ago? And despite being kinda sad about it, he was basically still going on doing what he was doing before the revelation. Idk man.

Cid is anarchist daddy. I think he might be the best Cid tbh.

Jill is like, the girl next door with no personality and little motivation. Her reaction to learning that Clive was responsible for killing Joshua and essentially ruining her live was amounted to a shrug, more or less. It was super weird. Maybe she'll become more intriguing as time goes on? Right now, she feels like an afterthought that's just sorta there to give Clive a love interest. I don't find their relationship romantic or heartwarming at all. I guess they have sexual tension that somewhat mimics regular people, which is kinda novel for this series.

Also idk, so far the lore is pretty easy to follow, despite a decent amount of jargon but... at this point Pheonix, Ifrit, Shiva, Ramuh, Titan, Garuda, and Bahamut are all tied to central characters who all happen to have pre-existing relationship with one another. Is this just the case of all the important people happening to be within proximity to one another for the sake of convenience, or am I missing something here? I feel like a bit of exposition as to how these people came to be the way they are, and how they feel about it (other than Clive and maybe Joshua) could go a long way.

The combat has really grown on me and I am definitely liking it a lot more. I think its a very good foundation for a more robust system (that maybe includes controllable party members, status effects, buffs/debuffs etc). Despite not being turn based, the flow of battle has an almost turn based back-and-forth to it. Neat and cool!

The environments have a range which i think work right now. Most of it has been kinda generic fantasy looking landscapes, but when the art direction pops it really pops. Things seem to be opening up more slowly.

Spoiler: separating this out for more gameplay commentary

On side quests: I have seen complaints about them. Are they warranted? ehhh yeah, kinda. They arent great. I don't feel super stoked to be embarking on them. One thing that really bugs me is that I think it's a little silly that I have to select through a prompt to give the quest givers their shit when there's only one option.

Are they a step up compared to FF15? Undisputably. Are they better than FF7r? Honestly, yeah big time. I think the writing behind them is a lot more natural compared to FF7r, which I found largely very cringe. They do a decent job with situating Clive+Co as part of a living, breathing community that gives it that Final Fantasy oomf if you know what I mean. The narrative justification for them seems fine, and they try to make sure they flow in tandem with the main objectives. They also seem to come into clusters of a few at a time, and often laid out in a way so that it's convenient to knock through a couple at the same time. In that sense, they've been mostly inoffensive so far. That said, it still fails to address more structural issues.

The side quests structure of its game design philosophy has seemingly replaced any consideration for level/dungeon complexity and map exploration. You get to know the world by doing random crap for NPCs, instead of discovering little secrets in the geometry of the map. I mean you can, but unless I'm really missing something, the chests suck. The rhythm is that you do a few main story events, which then takes you to a new map, at which point the game offers some side quests to do before the next few story events. If you want to wander off the main path, the side quests are there to kinda tell you when to do that. They are delineated via map markers and priority lists, just like any other dime a dozen AAA video game. This isn't exactly a FF16 problem per se, it's more an issue of big budget games recycling trends which lead them all to feeling the same. This maybe more of a western prestige thing that FF16 maybe chasing? Either way it's super lame, but not anything I didn't expect from the trailers or gameplay footage.

As a whole I'd say the side quests structure is a cut above the rest of the entries preceeding it (going by FF7r and FF15 here). Maybe it's nostalgia but I felt like my favourites in the series were more mold breaking and doing their own thing. FF16 feels like it's completely in complete lock-step with the trends of the rest of the market, some of which are off putting, ya know?

Either way I'm finally properly into the game. I guess I'll have more final thoughts when I'm nearer the end. Sneaking into Oriflamme via some mines right now.

About the sidequests and Cid being Best Cid, totally agree. They stand out for the amount of world-building and character development and they progressively get better. The last ones I'm doing are either revealing revelant lore, opening inaccessibile areas or showing truly touching scenes between characters.

I highly reccomend doing Vivian's Inconvenient Truth quest, if one really wants to blur what they understood about Bearers and how the slavery system came to be. The Undying II has you visit a village of cult members.

All the secondary NPCs (Gav, Otto, Tarja, Jote, Gaute, Charon, Martha, Wade, Blackthorne, Harpocrates, Goetz, Nektar, Isabella, Quinton, L'ubor, etc) have their own stories and you really get a sense of family and community. The fact I can easily remember all these names shows how the game didn't simply throw a bunch of people to fill out space. Might be the strongest side-cast of the franchise.

Edit: The attention to detail also extends for field npcs, their dialogues get regularly updated to reflect important story events.

 

[Lex]

According to a certain insider I know

Spoiler

Clive is dead, Joshua lived. He didn't mention Dion.

This would go against absolutely everything in the lore and what they set up in quests beforehand so it's a nah from me fam, "insider" be damned lmao

 

[Jimmy XH]

I’ve messed it up. I’m at 92% and didn’t finish it before I went back home for five days. Currently in the airport questioning my decision making.

I’ve clocked up 36hrs without really going too far into sidequests. I’ve done no hunts either. That speaks to the replayability of this game that I will 100% be going back and experiencing everything it has to offer.

Sure I have gripes, probably much the same as everyone else, but the truth is that this has been a terrific adventure. A real success story for SE.

Also I’m not very good at it yet. More Game Over screens than when I tried to beat Lee Chaolan on Tekken back in the day.

 

[Strangelove]

Spoiler: i am not going into specific detail just general vibes

if i have to save the world i don’t know if i can muster the will as i walk around and a whole bunch of these random towns people are being bigots. some of y’all i won’t care if your villages got burned down, let me do it myself

anyway it makes me happy when you’re walking around and hear torgal’s little footsteps pattering behind you

 

[Tetsujin]

Spoiler: i am not going into specific detail just general vibes

if i have to save the world i don’t know if i can muster the will as i walk around and a whole bunch of these random towns people are being bigots. some of y’all i won’t care if your villages got burned down, let me do it myself

anyway it makes me happy when you’re walking around and hear torgal’s little footsteps pattering behind you

Spoiler

I see you have been to Sanbreque then

not that other places are that much better but the people of Sanbreque and that one village in particular can really eat an entire barrel of dicks

 

[Wol]

Endgame Jill spoilers

Spoiler

I gotta say that they nailed Clive x Jill romantic scenes, despite her feeling underused. Just finished her final sidequest, and that scene was so natural and endearing in both writing and delivery that I got teared up. Something really hard to see in a JRPG, romantic moments that aren't cringy.

And if I knew both Joshua and Jill would become permament allies after completing their quests, I would have done them way sooner. Fuck, that was an excellent reward.

Now I'm ready for the final boss, clocking up almost 100 hours.

 

[looneymoon]

Spoiler: i am not going into specific detail just general vibes

if i have to save the world i don’t know if i can muster the will as i walk around and a whole bunch of these random towns people are being bigots. some of y’all i won’t care if your villages got burned down, let me do it myself

anyway it makes me happy when you’re walking around and hear torgal’s little footsteps pattering behind you

Spoiler

I laughed when I did that one SQ where Clive makes that little girl cry.

"She isn't a dog she's dead" lmfaoooo

Dumbass kid

 

[Wol]

That was an epic, beautiful and heart-gripping ending.

I'm just in tears.

Congrats to CBD3 for their first AAA title, you guys nailed it.

Will share my full thoughts about the game another time, but this is top 5 FF for me.

 

[Tetsujin]

Just finished "Through the Maelstrom"

Spoiler

Was sweating during the DPS check with Barnabas but when the actual countdown started and I wasn't even halfway through the bar I was like "oh this is scripted to be unwinnable then, I can relax"

"Clive Bested"

yeah ok, rub it in game!

Knowing we will eventually get Shiva's powers had me worried what might happen to Jill.
That it would happen in such an intimate scene is not what I expected! Finally, they fucking kissed. And then they kissing fucked, but we don't get to see that I guess.
This is why VII Remake needs that higher rating though, let Cloud and Tifa be naked under the Highwind dammit

Done quite a few sidequests and hunts inbetween as well. Am now at 86% completion at over 50h playtime (according to the PS5 menu timer, which has been inaccurate in the past though and I don't understand why we don't have in-game timers on our save files, hello??)

 

[Lulcielid]

Patch 1.03 update

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1676762372462235648

More control presets but not custom remapping? Lame.

 

[cold_spirit]

Been spending some time in the training area. Clive's magic burst and Torgal commands are very similar to Nero's exceed and buster knuckle from DMC5, so getting into the groove was like riding a bike.

Here I'm trying to master Clive's basic abilities. No Eikon feats, just the fundamentals. Definitely suggest control layout C for easier magic bursts. Torgal is great for eliminating or reducing knockback, allowing for quick follow-ups. The training area has great features to help learn the timing for these.

 

[Leafonthebreeze]

Patch 1.03 update

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1676762372462235648

More control presets but not custom remapping? Lame.

Oh thank god I can turn down the motion blur, it makes my eyes/head go weird.

Not gonna get to play again until next week now though, cos I'm out tonight and then away Friday to Monday. All fun stuff, but I'll be missing my good buddy Clive.

 

[looneymoon]

Spoiler

Jill did something finally but I didn't really get any sense of payoff from it tbh. I'm more interested in what Martha the Inn Keeper is up to than actual important people.

It's a shame because I feel like everything at Ironholm is cool conceptually, but should have felt a whole lot more cathartic than it was?

Can't say I have any qualms with what the story is, but holy moly the plotting/sequence of events is just kind of bizarre.

Also I think Ultima might be a space alien

 

[cold_spirit]

I made a thread for ending impressions. That's also where you can read mine. Open spoilers. I don't know, felt like some separation might be good.

Other than that, my hottest XVI take is that I prefer Clive's imperial armor over his default / cover art look. I mean the corset is great, but the rest of the armor is too bulky and pointy. I like how his imperial look is more grounded. Ahhh, at least I can still see it in the ability videos.

 

[ForceStealer]

Spoiler: events in Twinside

Well...given that the mothercrystal would seem to have spent a few decades' worth of aether in buffing up Bahamut, I'm not sure we really came out ahead on this particular operation
FFIX vibes on his initial rampage, though.

While the eikon fights have definitely improved from the start of the game, they still have a habit of really dragging out one or more segments. Like in the big Titan fight, there's no reason the bit where you're on one of the land tentacles dodging his one hand should have lasted that long. When you get your first stagger and do maybe a quarter-health bar it's a little . And similarly with Bahamut, the absolutely epic and spectacular segments don't need to whittle his health down so slowly. When I'm not in any danger of dying, and I've already seen all the spectacle attached to this phase, get on with it Typhon might still be my favorite, tightest eikon fight so far.
To play, anyway. Don't think I'm denying the epicness on display of the Bahamut fight. I especially liked that Phoenix would join in on your battle skills. The first time it happened I thought I had just timed something very well, lol, but still, when I first used the long fire-breathing skill on a staggered Bahamut and Ifrit and Phoenix were just roasting him together for an extended period was pretty badass. I am forced to wonder how Odin even managed to hold Bahamut to a stalemate, given that it took two eikons Gurren Lagann-ing it into submission

I'm glad they properly reunited Clive and Joshua instead continuing to drag out the ships-in-the-night thing, haha. Very nice scene, and hurray for Anabella's comeuppance. I'm glad we didn't contrive some way to turn her into a boss fight like making her akashic or something, haha.
But, yeah, Joshua sealing Ultima inside his heart or whatever sure doesn't seem to impede Ultima from doing whatever he wants to do, huh? (Though it did make me thing merging their eikons seemed risky, haha)

Kind of a bummer how this game keeps destroying every major city so we can never explore one...haha.

The extra control schemes are nice, I've been using C because I like my magic being up on L1, but now F is just like that except it swaps dodge down to O like it should have always been Managed to change to it for this dungeon without getting too confused (I kept it on Titan so that even if I hit R1 by accident that would at least be blocking)

 

[Strangelove]

Spoiler

I laughed when I did that one SQ where Clive makes that little girl cry.

"She isn't a dog she's dead" lmfaoooo

Dumbass kid

Spoiler

at least she learnt her lesson. i did that one after the other one nearby with the noble and his horrible child. i was so happy when they got mauled by monsters, see you in hell you little shits.

i have just gotten the first(? will there be more) message about how proceeding will be a big story event and i won't be able to go back for a while, but i gotta say

Spoiler

why are there sex noises in my final fantasy game. i was just talking to a moogle an hour ago, you can't do this to me