GENESIS: Tell me all we know!

[Flintlock]

I've never really been a Genesis fan, but I'm happy to share this page, which has a lot of good information

Spoiler: .

I'm somewhat surprised that this thread has seen 50 posts without anyone making that joke yet.

 

[minimosey]

I have to say again, that the dub is very good. But there are small differences - put in for cultural differences, I'm sure. Like Aerith seems to be teasing him more in the original version. Or is it just me?

I don't get the impression that the teasing is any different between the two versions. Phrasing got changed because yeah, translation, but the content of each line is hardly changed at all. Aerith acts all pouty over the wagon not being cute enough, responds enthusiastically when Zack asks about her luxuries/wishes, and makes up the same ridiculous number with that same pause as though deliberately drawing it out.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

So true about the sub/dub. I think I started liking Genesis as a character after watching the Japanese subs. Actually, this is true for most of the CC characters.

I like Genesis, if simply for the fact that he figured out the Shin-Ra was a den of monsters and left the program as well as how different he is from everyone else. All the other SOLDIERs (even Zack, Sephiroth and Angeal) try to fit into the mold Shin-Ra has for them, but Genesis doesn't. He instead has his own interests.

 

[Blade]

I like Genesis. I think he is an interesting character. I would hope we'd get to know more of his history. Thing is, I wish he was not an afterthought. I wish SE knew of Genesis and Angeal when they created VII, and didn't introduce them and try to make them a part of the main storyline like they did in Crisis Core. That's my biggest gripe, because it contradicts some stuff, and confuses the story. Also, the Dracula-like English voice over at the end of DoC... I do not want to hear that if and when a sequel to DoC comes around.

Speaking of being "dracula-like"...Vincent and Red XIII made a promise to meet in Midgar once a year for the whole of Red's lifetime (which as we know is over 500 years)...since Vincent is immortal...gosh, that makes me wonder how "mortal" Cloud and Genesis and the rest are...?

 

[Obsidian Fire]

Speaking of being "dracula-like"...Vincent and Red XIII made a promise to meet in Midgar once a year for the whole of Red's lifetime (which as we know is over 500 years)...since Vincent is immortal...gosh, that makes me wonder how "mortal" Cloud and Genesis and the rest are...?

I've wondered about this. The SOLDIER program is young enough that the only deaths suffered by SOLDIERs have been because they were killed. Given that Mako/Lifestream is spirit energy (life), I think its plausible that SOLDIERs would at least live longer then the average human. Add Jenova cells/traits to the mix and well... Lucrecia at least was having problems killing herself. It probably contributes something. I imagine this beeing an issue 60 years down the line.

 

[Captain Jack Harkness]

well, i'm wondering about one thing: what really mean "i tried to kill myself, but Jenova inside me doesn't let mi die"?
i mean, if she wanted to kill herself with a gun, she shoted herself but she didn't die or she tried to shot herself but something inside her blocked her?

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

^That's actually not a bad question.

 

[Wolfmania]

well, i'm wondering about one thing: what really mean "i tried to kill myself, but Jenova inside me doesn't let mi die"?
i mean, if she wanted to kill herself with a gun, she shoted herself but she didn't die or she tried to shot herself but something inside her blocked her?

That is an excellent question.

I'd attribute that to the fact Jenova's cells increase one's natural durability drastically. Remember DoC? Hojo tried to replicate the 'near-indestructible' body he gave Vincent via his shape-shifting experiments by implanting himself presumably with S-Cells.

Unfortunately for him, cells completely devoured his will and he became just another puppet.

Fortunately for him, he found Weiss, a man who had Genesis's cells spliced into him. He would have the 'nigh-indestructible' body Jenova cells can stimulate(though obviously to a smaller extent, since he's just a Genesis-type, not even a Gillian-type, hence more diluted).

This also would explain just why Cloud and Sephiroth are so durable, having received pure S-Cells which are the most pure, concentrated and even bettered strain produced by Hojo. It's why Cloud survived the Northern Crater's explosion and the half a planetary diameter fall, was only pissed off about getting slashed at by Jenova, why he could tank Bahamut Tremor's flare, etc...

My assumption is that Lucrecia, being a non-combat type, not possessing any great mako reserves or willpower, would find It hard as balls to actually hurt herself. Hurling herself off a cliff? Not gonna work. Shooting herself? Weiss and other G-celled individuals could tank bullets easily, even Barret could due to his willpower(presumably), stabbing herself with a sword? Hardly.

Now, i'm not sure if she has just regular J-cells or actual S-cells(definitely not the Pure S-Cells), but either way, she's hard to kill.

 

[Blade]

You ever see the movie "Species II"? In that movie, a certain soldier contracted a genetic mutation that changed him to something beyond human...he shot himself in the head, but his head regrew...but after that he was no longer capable of normal "sane" human thought...after that it was pure adrenalin and instinct.

Which makes me think that in some ways Sephiroth was acting on instinct as well once he "died".

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

^That could explain his sudden switch from "Become God of this Planet!" to "Use Planet as enormous space ship, find new planet to fuck over." As that second motive seems like pure Jenova intinct.

 

[Roger]

I think J-cells more just have a natural survival instinct too. Cloud's sense of self was too weak to function, so the Jenova cells inside him created a stronger Cloud, (based on what Cloud's mind considers strong) (UO places blame on J-cells anyway). I don't think Jenova cells will let you commit suicide. They adapt to survive in more ways then one, hence the freakish mutations.

 

[Kain Strife]

Couldn't the fact Genesis woke up be purely because of the death of Weiss? He mentioned it wasn't time yet to sleep brother. They made a big deal when Weiss and Nero picked Genesis up for the experiments that he'd be referred to as their brother. Perhaps over the years of Deepground Genesis changed alot and began to only care about his newly found brothers. Therefore giving a shit when Weiss is finished off.


Edit: Perhaps this has alot to do with Genesis' plot in the next story as well. Genesis has been Personality wise Mutated and changed completely, yet he is still deepdown the same Genesis.... Genesis never really portrayed an evil essence... Perhaps he will be conflicted and unknowing to who he really is.... much like the lead character of the same series.

 

[Wolfmania]

Well, I honestly doubt that'd be the case, considering Genesis was sleeping because he was waiting on the planet's orders. He is, for all intents and purposes, a WEAPON, just one that wasn't purposefully created by the planet.

Also, I doubt Genesis cared much for them at all. Weiss and Nero, when they took him to DG to become an experiment there, tried to convince him to join the rebellion against the Restrictor, since they couldn't even challenge him due to the chips in their heads. Genesis refused, and they obviously can't force Genesis to doing anything, they couldn't even force him to remain on Deepground for experimentation.

Instead Genesis just left DG and sealed himself until the planet called on him.

 

[Roger]

Thought Weiss just respected his decision? I mean, he was brought to Deepground under official orders, in the end not different then any other SOLDIER down there. They are allowed to fight and kill him as just well as anyone there (it's all anyone does down there). They just accepted his refusal.

 

[Wolfmania]

That's just because no one in DG could ever really hope to stand-up to Genesis in a fight.

Weiss needed someone strong enough to beat the Restrictors, yet that wasn't controlled by the chips, so he asked Genesis, and given the desperation of his character, would've tried to force Genesis into doing so, if the Tsviets could. Remember what they did in Dirge Online? That is not beyond them.

Then again, they(Restrictors and Tsviets alike) also had orders to keep Genesis under lock as an experiment, which obviously failed.

 

[Blade]

I'm still not quite sure who or what the Restrictors were...or if they even still exist, the major ones were killed in the DG uprising...Shelke was the last Tsviet to survive aside from Weiss, and she's hanging out with Cloud's group atm...I think she still needs a daily intake of Mako in order to live...being stuck in a little girl's body with Lucrecia's memories embedded in her must suck...I'm not even sure if Lucrecia still exists or not after Dirge...if that were the case you'd technically have two Lucrecias...

Now that it's mentioned...I wonder why Sephiroth never had a "restrictor"...unless Deepground was reformed AFTER Sephiroth's going rogue...unless Angeal, Sephiroth, and Genesis were restrictors of themselves?

 

[Wolfmania]

Yea, Restrictors were killed in the uprising they're all dead now.

And boy are things awkward with Shelke, and we are confirmed that Lucrecia does exist, as we see Vincent haunting her cave. I'm more disturbed by the fact she's probably attracted to Vince...

And nah, the Restrictors were already beating the strongest SOLDIERS when Genesis was 12 years old.

As to why Shinra never implemented the chips on their strongest SOLDIERS, well, I guess they just trusted their pysches. Or, since DG is obviously an after-thought, they just came up with that on the fly, which is more lilkely.

Even then I seriously doubt that chip would work on someone with decent will-power or monsters like Genesis, everyone in DG apparently had shit for willpower.

 

[Blade]

lol, Vincent x Shelke x Lucrecia three-way OTP.......

But nevermind that...just how powerful were the Restrictors? And where did they come from? They couldn't have just been SOLDIER or one step above that...because you almost never see them...if Angeal was as special as we're led to think he was...then why wasn't he in Deepground?

Argh...retcons...

 

[Wolfmania]

Deepground was formed when Genesis was born, a project born from the results they got from Genesis while he was a baby, and that's the reason they were not taken to DG since he was a separate project, as was Angeal and Seph. The Restrictors are a cut above the regular Tsviets, only weaker than Weiss or possibly Nero when it comes to DG. The Restrictors were the first DG operatives, the so-called 14th unit of SOLDIER, 'Lost Force', and were already active during the Wutai war when Genesis co. were 12 years old.

Though, of course, they are far weaker than the winged monsters of SOLDIER. Sephiroth being stated numerous times by the creators as the most powerful SOLDIER ever, with Zack, Genesis and Angeal tagging behind.

 

[Roger]

Deepground was formed when Genesis was born, a project born from the results they got from Genesis while he was a baby, and that's the reason they were not taken to DG since he was a separate project, as was Angeal and Seph. The Restrictors are a cut above the regular Tsviets, only weaker than Weiss or possibly Nero when it comes to DG. The Restrictors were the first DG operatives, the so-called 14th unit of SOLDIER, 'Lost Force', and were already active during the Wutai war when Genesis co. were 12 years old.

Though, of course, they are far weaker than the winged monsters of SOLDIER. Sephiroth being stated numerous times by the creators as the most powerful SOLDIER ever, with Zack, Genesis and Angeal tagging behind.

Well they can't very well have been formed when he was born, Genesis is older then Angeal and Sephiroth. the SOLDIER thing itself got started after the results of Sephiroth being exposed to Mako showers showed the treatment gave people enhanced capabilities and that was only a Plan B after trying to get him to show them the Promised Land (the original objective of the experiments). By then Genesis and Angeal were long since discarded testsubjects living in Banora. Deepground got started somewhere down the line cause some non-descripted Shinra scientist decided to take another look at Project G.

 

[Wolfmania]

That's not what the timelines and interviews say...

Such say that the arrival of Genesis changed DG from the old medical facility into the secret testing SOLDIER center, the SOLDIER program predates Sephiroth and co. who by the way, were stated by the creators to be relatively of the same age, and It's ok to think of them as the same age.

Basically, The Jenova Project spawned SOLDIER > Spawned Project S and Project G, which were branches of the SOLDIER project that used treated strains of J cells > Genesis's birth started DG.

Just let me hook you up with the quotes. It might take a few minutes.

Here we go, bro:

· Following the birth of Genesis, unique experiments begin in the secret department beneath the ShinRa building, known as Deep Ground.

- http://thelifestream.net/final-fantasy-vii/107/complete-timeline-of-the-compilation-of-ffvii/

 

[Obsidian Fire]

My understanding of the Restrictors is that they were DG experiments who agreed to work for the president. The reason why everyone else in DG has chips in their heads is because there are some people (the Tsivits) who could beat the Restrictors. And even then they don't completely work right. Wiess is strong enough to overcome the chip in his head which is why the Restrictors chained him to the reactor core behind a force field. In the online mode of DoC he actually does kill a Restrictor.

Speaking of the Restrictors, Genesis is brought to DG because of Shin-Ra/the Restrictors' orders. Given how much trouble they went through to get him, I don't think the Restrictors just let him waltz out of there and seal himself up in his ball of water. What I'm thinking happened is that Genesis fought his way though all of DG and Weiss said he wouldn't get in his way/help the Restrictors take him down.

S and G has a really nice article about this up on the front page.

As far as J-Cells go... it has been said in official interviews that J-Cells are very unstable and unpredictable in the way they interact with human cells.

 

[Danseru-kun]

Though I have a lot of issues with Genesis' role, I honestly was touched in the cutscene where*spoilers* he met Minerva. He, being obsessed with Loveless so much, all the while desperate for revenge and survival, viewed himself as a character of the poem. That poem has the Gift of the Goddess that he felt that could save him, though he didn't exactly know what that is.

So when he was in the lifestream, we can see how much in awe he is when he saw that the Goddess he was hoping for is real. I love how his face looks like he's so enamored by her beauty and light, and how his face pained when he was separated from her just when he was so near.

I think that's the best scene of Genesis.

Blade, not everyone hates Genesis himself, but probably the writing process behind the role of his character. And tbh, I actually like him more in the Japanese dub.

 

[Wolfmania]

My understanding of the Restrictors is that they were DG experiments who agreed to work for the president.

It's interesting that they were once a normal unit of SOLDIER before working for DG. And you're right about that, they are deathly loyal to the President.

The reason why everyone else in DG has chips in their heads is because there are some people (the Tsivits) who could beat the Restrictors.

Well, that's sorta right. The only Tsviet really stronger is Weiss, we've seen that Rosso, the third strongest Tsviet, was barely a fight to a Restrictor. Nero might be stronger, we don't know, but I doubt it since his ability would really not work on someone with running mako like a SOLDIER.

And even then they don't completely work right. Wiess is strong enough to overcome the chip in his head which is why the Restrictors chained him to the reactor core behind a force field. In the online mode of DoC he actually does kill a Restrictor.

That's only half true, tbh. Weiss can't bruteforce through It, though it takes some effort from the Restrictor to keep him in check, which is why Weiss needed someone to distract the Restrictor while he killed them, since he was the only one who apparently could, and that's where the player came in.

Speaking of the Restrictors, Genesis is brought to DG because of Shin-Ra/the Restrictors' orders. Given how much trouble they went through to get him, I don't think the Restrictors just let him waltz out of there and seal himself up in his ball of water. What I'm thinking happened is that Genesis fought his way though all of DG and Weiss said he wouldn't get in his way/help the Restrictors take him down.

Well, I mostly agree. I doubt the President would let the guy who caused the Mass SOLDIER desertion, and one of Shinra's most valuable experiments, go off on his own accord. There most definitely was some fighting on Genesis's part.

Though, I would reckon Weiss and the Tsviet's would be obliged to help, considering the Restrictors can kill him through the chip, I recall that mentioned somewhere in Dirge online. They did let those two wander around unatended to find Genesis knwoing that they wouldn't try anything funny. And even then, it would be in his character to try and manipulate Genesis into doing his bidding. Be it with words or force, as if: 'if you don't help with my rebellion, you're not leaving'.

Of course, I doubt anyone in DG would be as much of a hiccup to a fighter such as Genesis, especially after absorbing the Goddess Materia, curing his degradation and being annointed as supposedly the 'final' WEAPON, given he was awakened after Omega and Chaos by the planet.

S and G has a really nice article about this up on the front page.

Really? I should check that out sometime!

As far as J-Cells go... it has been said in official interviews that J-Cells are very unstable and unpredictable in the way they interact with human cells.

Yea, tell me about it. Poor experiments, they never had a shot.

 

[Octo]

I hate Genesis and the execution of his character

I just think his existence is completely redundant, but he's not the first redundant new character in the Compilation. There was so much they could have done with Crisis Core, but too much time was spent on Genesis/Hollander/Angeal and all that shit.

Personally I would have omitted that entire subplot. I would have kept Angeal, as its an interesting dynamic between him and Zack, but I would have just had Angeal die by other means, you know in battle, like a Soldier. It would have had just as much impact on Zack.

Anyway I'm getting off topic. Really what I hate most about Genesis, is fact that his existence dilutes the uniqueness of Sephiroth - remember Sephs line from the OG?
"....I've always felt since I was small..." "That I was different from the others. Special, in some way." "But... not like this...."

Genesis kind of throws all that out of the window. They were even friends, and yet Seph never supected a connection? Ridiculous. And I say this not as a Sephiroth fan, but a FFVII fan. I don't think Sephiroth was the best villian ever or anything like that, but he was the best FFVII had, and anything that diminishes Sephiroth also diminishes the plot of that game IMO.

But whats worse is that Genesis is a Mary Sue. He's style over content: If it were fanfiction a whole chapter would be dedicated to describing his appearence. Also, like Mary Sues he has something that makes him supposedly 'special' which is why they saw fit to include him in the Nibelheim scene. Like 'I'm the mysterious swordsman and I know everything, so I'm going to turn up and say a load of cryptic shit blah blah blah and you're going to stand there and listen for some stupid reason'

Seriously, how many fanfics are there where its 'Sephiroths brother/sister/son/daughter' who is the same but different with nicer hair and some new special ability?

I'm sorry I can't be more articulate here, but it just really fucks me off. That Nomura wanted to fanboy over Gackt so much that he decided to derail the backstory of a much loved game*. Its just unforgivable.

Genesis isn't the only thing wrong with Crisis Core of course, but he's a large part of the problem. I'm convinced that anybody on this forum could have come up with a better plot for that game.

I'm going to crawl back under my rock now...


Edit:* I went to the toilet but I was so riled up I couldn't relax.... Just imagine if they decided to include Justin Bieber in the next Mass Effect, and that large chunks of the plot involved an alter ego of Justin Bieber? Bioware would be getting turds and anthrax in the post and they'd fucking deserve it