Improve Crisis Core Thread

[jazzflower92]

Yeah,why wasn't ADVALANCHE in Crisis Core.I mean they were important in BC so why not in CC.This kinda of thing makes me realize if Square developers have rocks for brains.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I think I've figured out where Square first went wrong with Crisis Core. It was showing us this awesome promotional image:

http://media.crisis-core.net/scans/store_pamphlet_01.jpg

You see that and you think, "Oh, I'm looking at a picture of war buddies. This is going to be a game/story about soldiers in times of war." Being that we knew about the Wutai War as an established part of the FF lore, was it any wonder everyone expected that to be a big part of the game? I know I did.

So, yeah -- that one image alone offers more awesome than the entirety of the actual train wreck that is the game.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Unpopular opinion ahead - one element of the game that I like is its implication that Zack and Cloud didn't know each other all that well before the Nibelheim Incident. If the game were to represent them as best friends, then it could easily come to seem as if Zack rescued him because they were friends, rather than because rescuing people was what Zack aspired to do and was his reason for joining SOLDIER in the first place. Zack would have done for anybody what he did for Cloud. Sure, by the time they arrive in Midgar, Zack thinks of Cloud as his friend, but that doesn't mean they were friends before Nibelheim. Depends what you mean by 'friend', I suppose.

Also, even without the Genesis arc, it would be reasonable to Zack to wonder if he himself was still human after four years of being Hojo's lab experiment. His determination to rescue Cloud at all costs could have been his way of proving to himself that he was still a fully moral being. Not that the scriptwriters made any use of this, of course. Zack gets no character development at all as a result of his years of torture and imprisonment. He comes out of that basement exactly the same person he was when he went in.

 

[Octo]

Edit lol didn't read properly!

I think it would have made more sense given that Cloud tries to emulate Zack in the OG, if they'd been best buddies, and he's spent all that time looking up to him.

Cloud was pretty much catatonic after Nibelheim, so if he didn't know Zack all that well...how could he emulate his mannerisms and behaviour? Or is the implication that everything Zack said/did during and post rescue was being subconciously absorbed? And if someone else had rescued Cloud, would he have absorbed their personality instead?

Edit again, and really having them not be friends just makes it a bit less poignant (and I don't believe they could be true friends given the circumstances, timescale and Clouds brain) So Zack gives his legacy to some random dude who is tripping balls and in all likelihood (from Zacks pov) will be dead within a week? And then Cloud attaches such meaning to his sword and stuff? Just seems a bit weird.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

The Zack-Cloud friendship is obviously a YMMV headcanon thing.

Spoiler: tl;dr

I suppose I did assume that although Cloud was catatonic, he wasn't completely insentient, if that is the right word: he was still able to hear and sometimes see Zack, even if he couldn't respond, and perhaps his brains were so scrambled that the boundaries between himself and Zack became fuzzy: he heard a voice speaking, and thought it was his own; he felt himself to be on a moving motorbike, and thought he was driving it; and so on... According to the timeline they were together for quite a few months between breaking out of the basement and Zack's death outside Midgar.

In Before Crisis, Zack says something along the lines of "you don't need to know somebody well in order to be friends." Zack thought of all kinds of people as his friends - Tseng, for instance. If it had been Tseng in Hojo's basement instead of Cloud, Zack would have done for him what he did for Cloud. Zack's attitude basically was that the whole world was his friend until proven otherwise. So I can see a friendship in which Zack took pains to notice Trooper Strife and say something encouraging to him whenever their paths happened to cross, and Cloud in return started to transfer his hero worship from Sephiroth (who didn't even know he was alive) to the super-jock who actually seemed like a decent human being, and might begin, consciously or unconsciously, to model himself on Zack, because Zack was the embodiment of his SOLDIER dream.

But friends in the sense of hanging out together, telling each other stuff, talking about girls (Aerith?), getting pissed together, going on holiday together and so on.... I just don't see them being best buddies in that sense. Maybe they ate a meal together in the cafeteria a couple of times.

The one element in the game which points towards Clound being a close friend of Zack is the DMW. Only people who are important in his life feature on that. But then, Genesis is there too....

 

[ForceStealer]

Yeah, Cloud was a zombie, but he clearly heard Zack's story for him to have fabricated tge parts of the Kalm flashback he wasn't present for. He wasn't consciously emulating Zack, after all, Zach was just part of the persona Jenova whipped up in his head.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I think I've figured out where Square first went wrong with Crisis Core. It was showing us this awesome promotional image:

http://media.crisis-core.net/scans/store_pamphlet_01.jpg

You see that and you think, "Oh, I'm looking at a picture of war buddies. This is going to be a game/story about soldiers in times of war." Being that we knew about the Wutai War as an established part of the FF lore, was it any wonder everyone expected that to be a big part of the game? I know I did.

So, yeah -- that one image alone offers more awesome than the entirety of the actual train wreck that is the game.

ding ding ding

Also the slums music/atmosphere is way too fucking happy. It's almost insulting in contrast to the original game.

 

[Roger]

"I was so ashamed of being so weak; then I heard this story from my friend Zack..." "And I created an illusion of myself made up of what I had seen in my life....."

Cloud's persona wasn't particularly based on Zack, but they were friends.

And Zack may have saved anyone, I dunno if he would have carried just anyone to the other side of the world to meet his girlfriend. I don't think they were neccesarily best friend but Zack seemed pretty invested in the fact that whatever else, he still ha cloud to keep him company after this. He wanted Cloud to become a merc with him didn't he?

 

[Unlucky]

Also the slums music/atmosphere is way too fucking happy. It's almost insulting in contrast to the original game.

This so much. I hated the slums because of it.

As for the music, I have issues with the soundtrack of CC in general, what with having too many tracks that are just different versions of a song, and despite some good pieces, being forgettable as a whole.

 

[ForceStealer]

I like the song. It just didn't fit the slums.

And I love recurring themes, so rearranged versions of FF7 songs are fine by me. Preferred, in fact. Bugged the hell outta me that Vincent's theme wasn't in Dirge of Cerberus, and loved that Nibelheim played the same music in Crisis Core.

 

[Unlucky]

I liked that they used Anxious Heart, but I wasn't a fan of the added beat. But yeah, the CC soundtrack isn't devoid of really good tracks. I stalled around the church just to hear 'The Burdened' and 'Fulfilled Desire' is one of my favorite tracks in the whole Compilation.

Oh and if there's anything I like about Genesis, it's Genesis Avatar and his battle theme

 

[Abortedj]

I don't really see much wrong with Crisis Core. Just finished it about a month or two ago. I enjoyed it.

The only thing I see wrong with it are small gameplay and control issues. The control issues are most do to the inherent limitations of the PSP, being only one analog "nub" and its horribly awkward placement on the system. The gameplay would be improved by removing the random element of summons and other things that acted as summons but were labeled something else. The other thing would be a more standard experience system.

I see no real problem with any characters in the game, they are pretty standard as to what characters in recent Final Fantasy games have become. Might ditch the red leather jacket on Genesis, makes him look like gigolo, but that is only cosmetic.

 

[T@ctic]

we need a movie of it. about the same length as Complete.

what it needs:

1. more friendship on the trio group

2. the childhood relation ship of angeal and genesis (ONLY FOR ABOUT 20 MINUTES OF THE FILM)

3. about 20 minutes of sephiroth's childhood

4. small, very minute, minuscule cameos of cloud.

 

[Unlucky]

I didn't like how the cutscene of Zack's escape from the lab played out. And I find it silly that they were in the tube for years... with their clothes on. I wish CC presented the scene differently or better yet left it to the imagination.

 

[Roger]

That reminds me. They should've put in a dick SOLDIER Second Class that's jealous of Zack, and have him be promoted and put in charge of guarding the experiment, Zack would have to defeat him unarmed to get back the Buster Sword and escape. That'd be a better way of explaining where Zack reacquires the Buster Sword and SOLDIER First Class uniforms rather then the sword just being left right next to the tube for 4 years and the Shinra Mansion closet being full of SOLDIER First Class uniforms for no reason.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Good idea. I always thought it made no sense that the researcher had been left all alone in the mansion to supervise 'the experiment' and yet the moment Zack steps outside the place is crawling with Shinra infantrymen. Apart from anything else, who raised the alarm?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

And a better question: Why the fuck did they go back to the mansion and take a nap once said alarm had been raised?

 

[Unlucky]

@Minato: Great idea, I like it.

I just remembered another derp moment: Zack going back to the mansion after fighting off the infantrymen. Brilliant move, Zack. Luckily the grunts weren't any wiser. 'Hey let's just hang around the entrance and wait for them, who cares about investigating the mansion!'

edit: Tres u ninja

 

[ForceStealer]

Well he did just kill, what, 30 men? I wouldn't volunteer to investigate the mansion

But yeah, still odd decision, rest somewhere else.

 

[Philco]

I know, let's rest in the mansion! They'll never look for us there because they know that no one would be stupid enough to go back there!

Makes perfect sense

I just wanted more stuff post-Nibelheim. On my first play through, I genuinely thought that I was still only about half way through the game before it just... ended ):

 

[Shademp]

Pippin's line from Peter Jackson's The Two Towers comes to mind.

Pippin: "The closer we are to danger, the further we are from harm. It's the last thing he'll expect."
Treebeard: "Hmm. That doesn't make sense to me. But then...you are very small. Perhaps you're right."

Not saying it makes any sense (as that certainly wasn't Pippin's intention either) but there ya go. Zack is like Pippin if he was serious about the "closer to danger" thing. This must be the same mindset Zack practiced when he went straight for Midgar.

 

[Unlucky]

But what about the infantry. Whether or not they suspected them to be in the mansion, it had to be part of the standard protocol to look around the place.

Slight change of topic.. I'm not a fan of the retconned black First Class uniform. It doesn't have to be as vivid as in the OG but I prefer the purple version. Nomura is killing all the colors.

 

[ForceStealer]

Agreed, although I could live with the black First Classes if Second Class was still red. The ranks look a lot less distinct.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

2nd is still red. Zack just had a special uniform, probably because he was Angeal's pet or something.

And I don't like all the black shit either. Not the changed 1st Class uniform and definitely not the Turks' altered uniform. It had character before; now it's just generic, black shady business suit.

 

[Strangelove]

crisis core's turks: the one time nomura actually removed a zipper from a design instead of adding one

(or at least it less prominent)