SPOILERS INTERmission Chapter 2 Spoiler Discussion

[Makoeyes987]

Well why would a boy from the upper plate of sector 7 be in the church of Aerith with another bunch of crying people? My guess is that this alludes to the plate drop. Everyone who lost there home probably took refuge in Sector 5.

Why does this allude to the plate drop?

Where did we even see people taking refuge in the Sector 5 church? That didn't even happen during the Remake during the immediate aftermath of the platefall. We see refugees all over Midgar's slums except the church.

 

[JBedford]

3 months for one person, is 3 months for everyone else if they share the same spacetime. 3 months, is 3 months. Time is the same for everybody.

So that makes no sense if Zack is suddenly in the same timeline!!

The game was just showing what happened where the Party was three months in the past. Zack wasn't there, so why should Zack's passage of time need to progress the same as the party's?

The INTERsection scene was a flashback. Zack at the church is a present event.

 

[Makoeyes987]

The game was just showing what happened where the Party was three months in the past. Zack wasn't there, so why should Zack's passage of time need to progress the same as the party's?

The INTERsection scene was a flashback. Zack at the church is a present event.

What?

No it was not. That was not a flashback. Cloud and the others being on the road to Kalm, is a direct continuation of what happened at the end of Part 1. Where did you even hear that?

Again. If you're going to posit that Zack and Cloud's party inhabit the same timeline, after the Singularity battle, then you follow the chain of events as depicted, which occurred simultaneously. And nothing suggests that a flashback is happening on Cloud and the other's end.

 

[a_apple 2.0]

For Zack to be entering the church, while Aerith is commenting on having a bad feeling, the events have to be occurring simultaneously between each other. Which would mean that Zack, is entering the church during FFVII.

It's obviously not exactly at the same time since where Zack is standing it's bright sunlight lol Like I said I think you are taking this things too literally. Time travel shenanigans are always a bit nonsensical

Why does this allude to the plate drop?

Use your common sense, what else would be the reason for a boy from the sector 7 upper plate to show up with a bunch of clearly grieving people in Aerith church? We already have a example of someone who lived through the plate drop who ended up in Sector 5, which would be Biggs

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Well why would a boy from the upper plate of sector 7 be in the church of Aerith with another bunch of crying people? My guess is that this alludes to the plate drop. Everyone who lost there home probably took refuge in Sector 5.

Do we know that he's from Sector 7, though? That park from the upper plate in the opening is in Sector 5.

I grant you that the site of things inside the church suggests people reacting to the Sector 7 plate drop, but I don't think we can give priority to what that looks like on the surface over what else we've seen and read with certainty (i.e. Cloud and Zack walking past one another in VIIR's ending, and what the first Ultimania had to say about all that; Zack and Cloud both still having the Buster Sword; the way it seems like the same amount of time has passed for Cloud and co. to arrive outside Kalm from that spot in the wastelands just outside Midgar to the amount of time for Zack to get from that spot in the wastelands just outside Midgar to arrive at the church).

 

[JBedford]

No it was not. That was not a flashback. Cloud and the others being on the road to Kalm, is a direct continuation of what happened at the end of Part 1. Where did you even hear that?

The ending of Part 1 where Party and Zack intersect. For the party it's December. Zack's not literally there, he's in September -- it's flashbacking to September.

 

[Makoeyes987]

The ending of Part 1 where Party and Zack intersect. For the party it's December. Zack's not literally there, he's in September -- it's flashbacking to September.

Okay.

So if that's the case, how in the world is Zack in the same timeline and time frame as Cloud and the others? How could he be entering the church as Aerith is saying she has a bad feeling?

Are you going to say that Cloud and the others were on the road for 2 months to allow Zack time to catch up to their corresponding point in time, or something?

Do we know that he's from Sector 7, though? That park from the upper plate in the opening is in Sector 5.

I grant you that the site of things inside the church suggests people reacting to the Sector 7 plate drop, but I don't think we can give priority to what that looks like on the surface over what else we've seen and read with certainty (i.e. Cloud and Zack walking past one another in VIIR's ending, and what the first Ultimania had to say about all that; Zack and Cloud both still having the Buster Sword; the way it seems like the same amount of time has passed for Cloud and co. to arrive outside Kalm from that spot in the wastelands just outside Midgar to the amount of time for Zack to get from that spot in the wastelands just outside Midgar to arrive at the church).

That's my biggest point.

You have to literally ignore everything else we've seen and had explained to us up until now, to shoehorn a conclusion that creates a clear inconsistency with no plausible or rational answer. It doesn't make sense.

You can't acknowledge that these events were several months apart yet shown via the Singularity, depicted to unfold simultaneously, and then suddenly have Zack magically jump 3 months while Cloud and the others sat for months on the road to make it now be within FFVII's timeframe. That doesn't make sense.

 

[a_apple 2.0]

Do we know that he's from Sector 7, though? That park from the upper plate in the opening is in Sector 5.

I grant you that the site of things inside the church suggests people reacting to the Sector 7 plate drop, but I don't think we can give priority to what that looks like on the surface over what else we've seen and read with certainty (i.e. Cloud and Zack walking past one another in VIIR's ending, and what the first Ultimania had to say about all that; Zack and Cloud both still having the Buster Sword; the way it seems like the same amount of time has passed for Cloud and co. to arrive outside Kalm from that spot in the wastelands just outside Midgar to the amount of time for Zack to get from that spot in the wastelands just outside Midgar to arrive at the church).

I guess we have to wait for that new Ultimania lol. But the way I look at these things is just from a visual narrative perspective. The Remake is actually very straight forward with it's visual presentation. The thing it's cryptic about is mostly dialog related. If the game is showing me footage of Aerith saying she has a weird feeling and then a moment later showing me Zack who is just about to enter her church than thematically the game is putting these both scenes in relation to each other.

 

[Makoeyes987]

If the game is showing me footage of Aerith saying she has a weird feeling and then a moment later showing me Zack who is just about to enter her church than thematically the game is putting these both scenes in relation to each other.

They can still be connected yet within separate timelines. Why do you think Stamp is shared between these two timelines? It's an important shared connection. No one denied the events being related, I'm just saying they're not the same moment during FFVII-R because the time frame doesn't make sense.

 

[KindOfBlue]

We were shown two points in time simultaneously, I don’t know if it’s confirmed that they actually took place simultaneously otherwise it’s like showing a flashback and concluding that the flashback and the present are taking place concurrently but on separate timelines. Zack survives his battle, a few months pass, and then he goes to Aerith’s church at the same time that Cloud is leaving Midgar. That in itself isn’t such a stretch unless it is proven that the fight with the Whispers occurred at the same time as Zack’s last stand OR if we were just being shown a flashback that is now altered by our present actions.


“From the fact that there are two Clouds that exist at the same time”. Are they just describing what is literally on screen? Because if there are two Clouds, why wouldn’t it be possible for them to pass each other? It’s presumed that they are not in the same place and time, but are they in the same place but a different time, or the same time but a different place? Are they describing two realities occurring simultaneously but displaced temporally, or a singular reality in which the past events of those in the present still occurred based on their memories, but the present all around them has changed to match the changes of the past, creating dissonance between the party’s memories and the rest of the world?

The answer to all of these questions is…yet to be explained by the story, so all we have is conjecture. No matter what the ultimania says, we have not reached the resolution of the story yet. I have no hard theories on what the hell is going on here, just wanted to put that out there lol.

As far as the discrepancy between the church in-game and the church, I chalk it up to outsourcing the prerendered cutscenes so maybe they weren’t even done by the time FF7R came out. Or maybe because we only see sector 5 the morning after the plate drop, the refugees were moved there later.

 

[JBedford]

Okay.

So if that's the case, how in the world is Zack in the same timeline and time frame as Cloud and the others? How could he be entering the church as Aerith is saying she has a bad feeling?

Are you going to say that Cloud and the others were on the road for 2 months to allow Zack time to catch up to their corresponding point in time, or something?

Zack does not need to catch up. The first time Zack appears in FFVII Remake proper (present day) is entering the church.

His only other appearance is in a flashback to events that occurred before the game even started.

The present day when the flashback occurs is December, it's flashing back to what happened to Zack in September. At this time when Zack is appearing in the flashback, actual present day Zack is already heading to Aerith's church.

Because Zack has been in Midgar throughout the entire timeline of Part 1 (thanks to time shenanigans).

 

[Makoeyes987]

Zack does not need to catch up. The first time Zack appears in FFVII Remake proper (present day) is entering the church.

His only other appearance is in a flashback to events that occurred before the game even started.

The present day when the flashback occurs is December, it's flashing back to what happened to Zack in September. At this time when Zack is appearing in the flashback, actual present day Zack is already heading to Aerith's church.

Because Zack has been in Midgar throughout the entire timeline of Part 1 (thanks to time shenanigans).

And where does the game tell us any of that?

That flies entirely in the face of Chapter 18 of the Remake, where Zack's shown to have literally been fighting his final battle in Crisis Core during Cloud's battle with Sephiroth in the Remake, and Zack prevails thanks to the actions of Cloud and the others. Then from that point, Zack reaches Midgar and proceeds to the Church. Because the ending of Intergrade is a continuation of the ending of Part 1. You've simultaneously stated that the events from the ending are concurrent yet not, but somehow able to have transported Zack to the same timeline as the others, yet not really because Zack's been thrust back into the past, to somehow be present during everything in Part 1, already??

What you're saying is your own headcanon. And I don't see any evidence pointing to that interpretation at all.

We were shown two points in time simultaneously, I don’t know if it’s confirmed that they actually took place simultaneously otherwise it’s like showing a flashback and concluding that the flashback and the present are taking place concurrently but on separate timelines. Zack survives his battle, a few months pass, and then he goes to Aerith’s church at the same time that Cloud is leaving Midgar. That in itself isn’t such a stretch unless it is proven that the fight with the Whispers occurred at the same time as Zack’s last stand OR if we were just being shown a flashback that is now altered by our present actions.

View attachment 10036
“From the fact that there are two Clouds that exist at the same time”. Are they just describing what is literally on screen? Because if there are two Clouds, why wouldn’t it be possible for them to pass each other? It’s presumed that they are not in the same place and time, but are they in the same place but a different time, or the same time but a different place? Are they describing two realities occurring simultaneously but displaced temporally, or a singular reality in which the past events of those in the present still occurred based on their memories, but the present all around them has changed to match the changes of the past, creating dissonance between the party’s memories and the rest of the world?

The answer to all of these questions is…yet to be explained by the story, so all we have is conjecture. No matter what the ultimania says, we have not reached the resolution of the story yet. I have no hard theories on what the hell is going on here, just wanted to put that out there lol.

As far as the discrepancy between the church in-game and the church, I chalk it up to outsourcing the prerendered cutscenes so maybe they weren’t even done by the time FF7R came out. Or maybe because we only see sector 5 the morning after the plate drop, the refugees were moved there later.

It really is not that complicated or elusive to understand, since Zack's entire experience during the end of Chapter 18, is a corresponding event that has been depicted in Crisis Core. It has a date. It's an event. It's not ambiguous where or when it happened. So why the hesitancy to state what is plainly in front of the audience?

Zack's experience from that point in time, is during Crisis Core's time period, specifically the final battle. That's not ambiguous, mysterious or conjecture. That is how it's described and confirmed by the writers.

The singularity is a place where all events in time happen simultaneously. That's right out of the game. We know that's what the singularity is.

Zack survives his battle, a few months pass, and then he goes to Aerith’s church at the same time that Cloud is leaving Midgar. That in itself isn’t such a stretch unless it is proven that the fight with the Whispers occurred at the same time as Zack’s last stand OR if we were just being shown a flashback that is now altered by our present actions.

Citation needed. Where does it say anywhere "months" have passed? This is the type of assumption that's just being presented as fact. Who or what is stating that months have passed? Months haven't passed or anything for Cloud and the others, they're picking up right where they left off. The corresponding events from the ending of Remake Part 1 to it's continuation in Intermission, show these events happening concurrently. Nothing alludes to the fact that "months" have passed.

The Ultimania quote is obviously describing what we, the audience, see in the ending because a picture of said ending accompanies that text. They're talking about Cloud's FFVII party passing by Zack carrying mako poisoned Cloud. This isn't difficult to interpret. The reason the two Clouds can't literally pass each other or be in the same time and place here is because it's a paradox. Cloud not inheriting the Buster Sword from a dying Zack, doesn't become the Cloud of FFVII who we see proceeding on the journey after the Remake's ending.

Why is this suddenly mysterious or ambiguous?

 

[JBedford]

And where does the game tell us any of that? What you're saying is your own headcanon.

Yes.

That's what this exercise has been about. Explaining to you how the church scene fits into the same-timeline theory.

The same-timeline theory says that upon exiting the singularity the party have landed on the Zack Lives timeline.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Yes.

That's what this exercise has been about. Explaining to you how the church scene fits into the same-timeline theory.

The same-timeline theory says that upon exiting the singularity the party have landed on the Zack Lives timeline.

Okay. But it doesn't fit. It fails to adequately answer the fact that the corresponding events from Zack and Cloud's perspectives are shown to have occured simultaneously thanks to the Singularity. These events are also separated by 3 months.

For any corresponding parallel, like shown in the ending of Intermission, to have occurred within the same timeline at the same time, you need to explain how and when this temporal sync up occurred, with evidence. Because nothing in the game explains or shows such a thing at all.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

We were shown two points in time simultaneously, I don’t know if it’s confirmed that they actually took place simultaneously otherwise it’s like showing a flashback and concluding that the flashback and the present are taking place concurrently but on separate timelines. Zack survives his battle, a few months pass, and then he goes to Aerith’s church at the same time that Cloud is leaving Midgar.

So folks ignoring the two Buster Swords I keep pointing out is going to be a thing, huh?

That in itself isn’t such a stretch unless it is proven that the fight with the Whispers occurred at the same time as Zack’s last stand

Zack sees the Whisper dome around Midgar during his late September, but that's happening in the party's December. It literally knocks him down ...

“From the fact that there are two Clouds that exist at the same time”. Are they just describing what is literally on screen? Because if there are two Clouds, why wouldn’t it be possible for them to pass each other?

If it were as simple as a flashback, it wouldn't have needed attention called to it. =P No one would have thought anything different of its visual language than "Oh, it's a flashback" if the book hadn't called attention to it with "Isn't this weird?? How is this even possible??"

The same-timeline theory says that upon exiting the singularity the party have landed on the Zack Lives timeline.

Ah. Well, that's a different -- and entirely possible -- kettle of fish altogether from the generally proposed same-timeline theory (i.e. that Cloud and co. changed their own past, the Cloud we control literally is the Cloud who Zack was carrying, etc.).

 

[KindOfBlue]

And where does the game tell us any of that?

That flies entirely in the face of Chapter 18 of the Remake, where Zack's shown to have literally been fighting his final battle in Crisis Core during Cloud's battle with Sephiroth in the Remake, and Zack prevails thanks to the actions of Cloud and the others. Then from that point, Zack reaches Midgar and proceeds to the Church. Because the ending of Intergrade is a continuation of the ending of Part 1. You've simultaneously stated that the events from the ending are concurrent yet not, but somehow able to have transported Zack to the same timeline as the others, yet not really because Zack's been thrust back into the past, to somehow be present during everything in Part 1, already??

What you're saying is your own headcanon. And I don't see any evidence pointing to that interpretation at all.



It really is not that complicated or elusive to understand, since Zack's entire experience during the end of Chapter 18, is a corresponding event that has been depicted in Crisis Core. It has a date. It's an event. It's not ambiguous where or when it happened. So why the hesitancy to state what is plainly in front of the audience?

Zack's experience from that point in time, is during Crisis Core's time period, specifically the final battle. That's not ambiguous, mysterious or conjecture. That is how it's described and confirmed by the writers.

The singularity is a place where all events in time happen simultaneously. That's right out of the game. We know that's what the singularity is.



Citation needed. Where does it say anywhere "months" have passed? This is the type of assumption that's just being presented as fact. Who or what is stating that months have passed? Months haven't passed or anything for Cloud and the others, they're picking up right where they left off. The corresponding events from the ending of Remake Part 1 to it's continuation in Intermission, show these events happening concurrently. Nothing alludes to the fact that "months" have passed.

The Ultimania quote is obviously describing what we, the audience, see in the ending because a picture of said ending accompanies that text. They're talking about Cloud's FFVII party passing by Zack carrying mako poisoned Cloud. This isn't difficult to interpret. The reason the two Clouds can't literally pass each other or be in the same time and place here is because it's a paradox. Cloud not inheriting the Buster Sword from a dying Zack, doesn't become the Cloud of FFVII who we see proceeding on the journey after the Remake's ending.

Why is this suddenly mysterious or ambiguous?

Let’s backtrack a bit because I think there’s too much misinterpreting what’s being argued here.

Zack’s last stand took place months before the events of FF7R. The fight with the Whispers occurs within the singularity, which transcends time and space. This results in the outcome of Zack’s last stand changing, but you still have to account for the period of time between when he would have died and when FF7R starts.

Meaning that perhaps something happened between Zack’s survival and where we are now that kept him from reaching Aerith’s church until after we already left Midgar. From Zack’s perspective, he never died, so he never gave up his sword. But this change of the the past isn’t reflected in the future, where we see that Cloud still has the sword. Perhaps being inside the singularity kept him and the others from being affected by the altered timeline, I dunno. Just a theory.

I think your presumption is that because we were shown two events simultaneously, Zack’s last stand and the final fight of FF7R, that it means that they’re taking place at the same time on two separate timelines that are offset from one another. The question then is why and how there can be two timelines in the first place, which is what the ultimania alludes to but doesn’t actually solve yet.

We were shown two points in time, but we do not know if they actually occurred together. Because we know they’re not supposed to, we know Zack’s last stand was months prior. Why would it be different now? Because we can see it? There’s other flashbacks and flashforwards, do they all now occur at the same time because we can see them? It’s not exactly the most compelling evidence in my book.

That’s not to say that it’s wrong, I’m saying we just don’t know yet. We can see what the ultimania says, what we don’t know is what it actually means. People still debate interpreting the ultimania for games that have long been released, I’d hardly expect anything different here. Until the game actually resolves it’s story, we just don’t know for sure.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I think your presumption is that because we were shown two events simultaneously, Zack’s last stand and the final fight of FF7R, that it means that they’re taking place at the same time on two separate timelines that are offset from one another.

But the dome and golden Whisper snow is seen by Zack in his September and people like Marle in their December. =\
---


Also, I'm just going to take to saying it every post now: there's two Buster Swords.

 

[KindOfBlue]

But the dome and golden Whisper snow is seen by Zack in his September and people like Marle in their December. =\
---


Also, I'm just going to take to saying it every post now: there's two Buster Swords.

I addressed the swords, if Cloud being in the Singularity protects his past from being altered by the Whispers then perhaps it wouldn’t erase his sword from being in his possession because to him, it still happened. So we end up with two swords, maybe even two Clouds, but one new timeline. As for the Whisper dome, we’re dealing with entities that can transcend space and time, I don’t think it’s such a stretch that two people at different points in time might be able to see them. Perhaps the dome around Midgar exploding is a residual effect of their failed attempt to prevent the future from changing?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

As for the Whisper dome, we’re dealing with entities that can transcend space and time, I don’t think it’s such a stretch that two people at different points in time might be able to see them. Perhaps the dome around Midgar exploding is a residual effect of their failed attempt to prevent the future from changing?

I mean, you asked for proof that these things were happening in both Zack's September and Cloud's December.

The dome was literally formed right in front of Cloud in his December. =/

 

[Makoeyes987]

Ah. Well, that's a different -- and entirely possible -- kettle of fish altogether from the generally proposed same-timeline theory (i.e. that Cloud and co. changed their own past, the Cloud we control literally is the Cloud who Zack was carrying, etc.).

There's a problem with this theory because the Ultimania goes out of its way to allude this is clearly a paradoxical outcome. The narrative is aware of the fact that Cloud not inheriting the Buster Sword puts him at odds with being the character who's the main protagonist of FFVII. Would be kinda weird for them to allude to that point, yet simultaneously let such an outcome occur.

Also, I'm just going to take to saying it every post now: there's two Buster Swords.

This is a very clear and succinct point too. I suppose I should emphasis this more as well

Zack’s last stand took place months before the events of FF7R. The fight with the Whispers occurs within the singularity, which transcends time and space. This results in the outcome of Zack’s last stand changing, but you still have to account for the period of time between when he would have died and when FF7R starts.

Meaning that perhaps something happened between Zack’s survival and where we are now that kept him from reaching Aerith’s church until after we already left Midgar. From Zack’s perspective, he never died, so he never gave up his sword. But this change of the the past isn’t reflected in the future, where we see that Cloud still has the sword. Perhaps being inside the singularity kept him and the others from being affected by the altered timeline, I dunno. Just a theory.

You're making this complicated when it isn't. We know what happened, we saw it. There is no "perhaps." The time period of when Zack would've died is September. Instead of dying, he lived. He carries Cloud to Midgar, which happens simultaneously as Cloud and the others are leaving Midgar, in December. Once more, the Singularity shows us this.

Instead of speculating "perhaps something happened", you need to explain what froze Cloud and others time in place to suddenly make Zack able to jump 3 months into the future to sync up with them during FFVII's time frame and be in the same timeline. Because without a clear explanation, it's not where he's shown to exist. His events happen around the time of Crisis Core. We know this for a fact, the Ultimania even says so. What is the ambiguity of where/when these events occur?

Why people in this thread are ignoring this critical detail while trying to proclaim they're in the same timeline and in sync with each other during FFVII-R boggles the mind. LOL, you can't just brush such a widely different time frame aside like some brusslesprouts.

We were shown two points in time, but we do not know if they actually occurred together. Because we know they’re not supposed to, we know Zack’s last stand was months prior. Why would it be different now? Because we can see it? There’s other flashbacks and flashforwards, do they all now occur at the same time because we can see them? It’s not exactly the most compelling evidence in my book.

FFVII-R's Ultimania literally states that Zack's last stand from Crisis Core is shown to have happened. The explosion of the Whispers that Zack witnesses after his final battle in Crisis Core, occurs at the same time as the one in Cloud's present of FFVII. Furthermore....

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1255342772153966593

They pass by each other. Despite its ambiguous wording, it makes several points quite clear. They passed each other. Despite being at different points in time. Furthermore, it says it clearly that if Zack is alive, Cloud shouldn't have the Buster Sword. That is clearest allusion yet to the paradoxical nature of these two existences inhabiting the same timeline, right there.

I addressed the swords, if Cloud being in the Singularity protects his past from being altered by the Whispers then perhaps it wouldn’t erase his sword from being in his possession because to him, it still happened. So we end up with twoThi swords, maybe even two Clouds, but one new timeline. As for the Whisper dome, we’re dealing with entities that can transcend space and time, I don’t think it’s such a stretch that two people at different points in time might be able to see them. Perhaps the dome around Midgar exploding is a residual effect of their failed attempt to prevent the future from changing?

So the past can be changed in its entirety, collapsing two timelines into one, but somehow nothing about the characters or their belongings changes whatsoever. Okay.

Why are there two Stamps? Why were we even shown that? (I'm going to keep coming back to that )

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

There's a problem with this theory because the Ultimania goes out of its way to allude this is clearly a paradoxical outcome. The narrative is aware of the fact that Cloud not inheriting the Buster Sword puts him at odds with being the character who's the main protagonist of FFVII. Would be kinda weird for them to allude to that point, yet simultaneously let such an outcome occur.

I think you're misunderstanding me. I take @JBedford to be suggesting that the party unknowingly emerged into Alternate Zack's timeline -- so they've been walking down the highway and hitchhiking in September while thinking it's December.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I think you're misunderstanding me. I take @JBedford to be suggesting that the party unknowingly emerged into Alternate Zack's timeline -- so they've been walking down the highway and hitchhiking in September while thinking it's December.

Ahh, okay.

But I'd definitely have to say "citation needed" on that one, since that means Yuffie's in the other timeline and now that's another weird situation we need resolving.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

that's another weird situation we need resolving

I think you just summarized the remake.

 

[KindOfBlue]

I mean, you asked for proof that these things were happening in both Zack's September and Cloud's December.

The dome was literally formed right in front of Cloud in his December. =/

And I agree that they happened in both Zack’s September and Cloud’s December, what I’m questioning is if both of those points in time are occurring simultaneously. Like I said, with an entity like the Whispers, I don’t think it’s a stretch that killing them in the present may have effects on what they did in the past. In fact, we already have that with Zack’s survival itself.

The Whispers sense a change is about to occur in the present, so they form a dome to try to prevent that change. Similarly, they detect that the past is about to be changed, so they also form a dome in the past. That’s all hypothetical of course, I’m just spitballing here.

He carries Cloud to Midgar, which happens simultaneously as Cloud and the others leaving Midgar, in December. Once more, the Singularity shows us this.

Again, we don’t know if it happened simultaneously. We have a visual of it, but we don’t know if it’s meant to be taken literally.

Instead of speculating "perhaps something happened", you need to explain what froze Cloud and others time in place to suddenly make Zack able to jump 3 months into the future to sync up with them during FFVII's time frame and be in the same timeline. Because without a clear explanation, it's not where he's shown to exist. His events happen around the time of Crisis Core.

Because you’re still hanging on to the idea that Zack’s last stand and Cloud leaving Midgar are occurring simultaneously, you keep misunderstanding the explanation others already gave. Presuming that they aren’t taking place simultaneously, nothing has to happen to make Cloud freeze in place or make Zack skip ahead. Time still moves exactly as we know it to, only now we don’t know what happened to Zack in between the end of Crisis Core and the beginning of FF7.

So the past can be changed in its entirety, collapsing two timelines into one, but somehow nothing about the characters or their belongings changes whatsoever. Okay.

Yes, exactly. That’s the convenience that a device like the Singularity allows if what I’m saying is true. It allows the writers to take the characters from inside the Singularity, namely Cloud, and keep the development along roughly the same path as the OG while also expanding the kind of curveballs that can be thrown our way.

Why are there two Stamps? Why were we even shown that?

For pretty much the same reason why we’d see them if we are dealing with two timelines, to differentiate between the old and the new.

Imagine if you will, our party is unaffected by the changes occurring outside the Singularity. We remember what Stamp looked like, a beagle right? But he’s a terrier now? When did this change happen? We specifically remember him being a beagle but he’s a terrier now, and nobody but us seems alarmed by this?

 

[Theozilla]

Yeah, if the single/combined timeline scenario is path that’s going to play out (and not separate timelines), basically one should view the singularity and the events that occurred inside of it as equivalent to the Time Sphere from Futurama Bender’s Big Score, it allows for paradoxical duplicates to exist without breaking time because (to quote the JJBA meme of King Crimson) “it just works”.