Kitase would consider FFVII-2

[Octo]

If there is one thing about life that I've learned, is that there is ALWAYS some new threat around the corner.

Sometimes it comes out of nowhere, sometimes it doesn't. The fact of the matter is the same applies to villains in stories. A good writer can do anything.

That's the problem

The point is that in terms of wrapping up the compilation, introducing a buttload of new characters/villians isn't really going to do that IMO. I'd honestly prefer they brought old villains back...don't see why the remnants couldn't reappear... as crappy as that sounds, I just think that's the only way to go without watering things down even further.

If they do really intend to wrap up the complilation (and I'm not sure that they do) It would have to be in a way where Sephiroth is vanquished forever because that is central to the whole thing.

Spoiler

 

[Tennyo]

If there were to be a new villain, however, why would they HAVE to be a super soldier? Why would it have to be anyone with special powers?

Like, how did the WRO get to seemingly be in charge? Maybe some political group will pop up and not agree with what they are doing. The leader of that group could be the big bad, AND a normal person all at once. AND it would be perfectly plausible for them to have had no role in the story so far.

Maybe Sephiroth is already dead forever.

 

[ForceStealer]

The Lifestream interfered with Holy and Meteor and canceled out both spells didn't it?

Like, how did the WRO get to seemingly be in charge? Maybe some political group will pop up and not agree with what they are doing. The leader of that group could be the big bad, AND a normal person all at once. AND it would be perfectly plausible for them to have had no role in the story so far.

Or Rufus. Have him set in motion whatever plans he has by funding the WRO. Maybe assassinating or attempting to assassinate Reeve and then come forward as the WROs benefactor to regain goodwill with the people.

And Genesis is clearly alive and will have to be a factor, even if he's not a main villain, which i agree that he shouldn't be.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Or Rufus. Have him set in motion whatever plans he has by funding the WRO. Maybe assassinating or attempting to assassinate Reeve and then come forward as the WROs benefactor to regain goodwill with the people.

While being true to his character to a degree, I wouldn't like that much, either. Sometimes it's refreshing for a character to have a Heel Face Turn and uh, stay that way.

 

[Wolfmania]

Well, Genesis is somehow out to protect the planet(probably will do so in his twisted way) with his spawn, Weiss.

They will probably milk the Cloud/Zack legacy and It's relation to Genesis and the honor of SOLDIER.

Which is ok by me, that dosen't sound too bad.

 

[Wolfmania]

Well, Genesis is somehow out to protect the planet(probably will do so in his twisted way) with his spawn, Weiss.

They will probably milk the Cloud/Zack legacy and It's relation to Genesis and the honor of SOLDIER.

Which is ok by me, that dosen't sound bad.

 

[Tennyo]

Oh I forgot about Rufus. I was kind of hoping he would be on the side of good now (clearly for his own profit and not because he actually cares about people). But him coming forward to be the main villain could be a possibility.

 

[ForceStealer]

The fact that all of you are so quick to forgive Rufus I think proves my point that the people of Gaia would too, and thus play right into his hands.
And yeah, he's obviously learned some lessons. He's not going to be able to flagrantly and openly rule by fear anymore. And maybe even believes taht he shouldn't. But even AC/C proved he was still conniving, he jsut happened to be conning a common enemy.

 

[Max Payne]

That's the problem

The problem is SE HAS good writers. The problem is they are all under utilizing their talents. ALL of them.

The point is that in terms of wrapping up the compilation, introducing a buttload of new characters/villians isn't really going to do that IMO. I'd honestly prefer they brought old villains back...don't see why the remnants couldn't reappear... as crappy as that sounds, I just think that's the only way to go without watering things down even further.

Because they're all dead. Dead needs to means something again in FF7.

New characters can easily bring in new plotlines and help resolve old ones.

If they do really intend to wrap up the complilation (and I'm not sure that they do) It would have to be in a way where Sephiroth is vanquished forever because that is central to the whole thing.

Who is to say he isn't gone already?

 

[Tennyo]

Hey I never said I forgave Rufus. I just think that legitimately helping the good guys is more profitable for him at the moment.

The world being destroyed wouldn't really benefit him much.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

The fact that all of you are so quick to forgive Rufus I think proves my point that the people of Gaia would too, and thus play right into his hands.

I'm not talking about my perception of Rufus in universe. I'm talking about the character himself and how he's written. From a literary point of view he's at a point where he could be written to go either way, but I think that the 'HEHEHE I WAS EVIL ALL ALONG YOU DUMMIES REALLY BELIEVED ME *presses trap door button* is well, it would be really dumb and pretty predictable. Shake it up, Square. Give us the interesting conundrum of a villain showing genuine remorse.

 

[Max Payne]

Also I remember having this convo about Rufus and getting chewed out over it. Everyone was all HERP HE A GOOD GUY NOW IT'D BE STOOPID.

I always thought it was ridiculous that the FF7 crew let all of that shit go to begin with. Tifa talking to Reno like he's an old goddamn friend despite the fact that and his friends are directly responsible for the deaths of hundreds and all other kinds of shit. It was completely unconvincing.

 

[ForceStealer]

@ Tenny: Yeah, how did what I said relate to destroying the world?

So don't make Rufus evil. Make him just attached to having power. He comes in, the people the tired of living like shit and remember how many more conveniences there were under Shinra, and that Rufus really seems like he's turned over a new leaf. Avalanche don't want him anywhere near a position of authority and could become very unpopular.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Also I remember having this convo about Rufus and getting chewed out over it. Everyone was all HERP HE A GOOD GUY NOW IT'D BE STOOPID.

I always thought it was ridiculous that the FF7 crew let all of that shit go to begin with. Tifa talking to Reno like he's an old goddamn friend despite the fact that and his friends are directly responsible for the deaths of hundreds and all other kinds of shit. It was completely unconvincing.

I'm not saying that he should be forgiven by the people within the universe. Rufus should probably be untrusted and generally reviled for the rest of his life. I'm just saying I'd prefer the plotline implications and possibilities of him actually feeling bad about his actions and going down the slow but very possible path of redemption. Dude is like what, in his mid twenties? It's not like he's too old or set in his ways or whatever.

 

[ForceStealer]

He was still telling Cloud bold-faced lies to get him to do what he wanted. I'm not sure why everyone assumes Rufus has seen the light just because he told off Kadaj.

 

[Max Payne]

Yeah, if he wants redemption he really needs to stop with the manipulation and double talk bullshit. I am not convinced.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

He was still telling Cloud bold-faced lies to get him to do what he wanted. I'm not sure why everyone assumes Rufus has seen the light just because he told off Kadaj.

Like I said, the long, slow, path of redemption. If I lied to you to get you to buy me a cupcake or sleep with your girlfriend, that's a far cry from acting in any antagonistic fashion in a large scale epic plotline.

Yes, Rufus is still a lying, manipulative person. But so are a lot of people who are a lot less evil. I think as far as doing some big scale grand shit he's kind of out of the picture and he knows it. Funding the WRO and whatever machinations he can afford out of that is probably about as far as it can go; the days of any Shinra ruled world are done and over with.

 

[Tifabelle]

Rufus may never be a "good guy". Sure, maybe he's learned some lessons and he's not so bad. But he could still be out for himself and for rebuilding Shinra.

I just think that legitimately helping the good guys is more profitable for him at the moment.

The world being destroyed wouldn't really benefit him much.

Something like this. Rufus is going to do what benefits him most. If that happens to be helping the good guys, then he would seemingly be a good guy. Rufus, I think, would make a very good neutral character at this point. Not good, but not evil. Helps create solutions, but also still makes problems. etc etc

 

[ForceStealer]

He went after Sephiroth head-on in VII. Even Barret was impressed. I'm not saying he's gonna be the big bad, but he has the capability to throw a major wrench in the world's progression and become an 'opponent', if nothing else.

Many of us pointed out this flaw with their approach to Dirge of Cerberus, not EVERY game has to involve the fate of the entire world.

 

[Octo]

The problem is SE HAS good writers. The problem is they are all under utilizing their talents. ALL of them.

I hope you are right. I am basing my judgement on the compilations output and KH, which for the most part have crappy plots (opinion!) I have not personally been impressed with the writing of their other games since FFIX.

Because they're all dead. Dead needs to means something again in FF7.

I totally agree, but that is locking the stable door after the horse has bolted. I don't know all the ins and outs, but what is to stop Sephiroth using them again? Or manipulating Genesis to the same end? (If someone who has been paying attention to the finer plot points can explain this, please do)

New characters can easily bring in new plotlines and help resolve old ones.

In storytelling generally yes, but I'm basing everything on what has occurred in the compilation thus far. I'm sad to say that I don't trust them to create new characters with some sort of integrity

Who is to say he isn't gone already?

All that 'I will never be a memory' crap, and how hes somehow linked in with Clouds mind tank. And the fact that SE wouldn't put out a game without him because he's a money spinner apparently.

 

[Tennyo]

@ Tenny: Yeah, how did what I said relate to destroying the world?

I was just using that as an example. If there is a new villain they might all THINK the world could be destroyed and thus Rufus would probably not want that to happen.

My point being, Rufus is still an arrogant prick that none of the main characters trust, but the idea of him still helping them out of a desire for profit is kind of what I'm hoping happens.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Rufus, I think, would make a very good neutral character at this point. Not good, but not evil. Helps create solutions, but also still makes problems. etc etc

This is kinda how I see it. I imagine Rufus, while still being a significant world player in his own right, will be relatively insignificant in the development of FFVII's new world in the large scale. It would be much more interesting, at least to me, for Rufus to realize that he's a drop in the bucket (I got that impression that he's already thinking that way in AC) in the new world and at best he can kinda scrape up some of the power he had before. Being evil just isn't profitable anymore for him.

He's not going to be a penniless bum on the street, but at the same time any power he does manage is going to be either small fry, or balanced out by the new big dawgs in Gaia, and he's going to know it.

 

[Max Payne]

All that 'I will never be a memory' crap, and how hes somehow linked in with Clouds mind tank. And the fact that SE wouldn't put out a game without him because he's a money spinner apparently.

Has there been any indication after ACC that he's still around?

Also, plenty of villains have given foreboding one liners before their doom and still stayed dead.

 

[ForceStealer]

I totally agree, but that is locking the stable door after the horse has bolted. I don't know all the ins and outs, but what is to stop Sephiroth using them again? Or manipulating Genesis to the same end? (If someone who has been paying attention to the finer plot points can explain this, please do)

There's just simply not enough Jenova left for him to have any sway over. Great Gospel got rid of any in the vicinity of Edge which included the single greatest collection of them remaining (her head). They may be scattered elsewhere in the world but she's been pretty summarily pulverized. And the end of Crisis Core implies that Genesis doesn't have any anymore either, otherwise he'd still be decaying.
Furthermore, Case of Lifestream Black outlined just how much effort and sacrifice it took for Sephiroth to maintain cohesion in the Lifestream the last time. I doubt he could do it again. Cryptic messages notwithstanding.

In storytelling generally yes, but I'm basing everything on what has occurred in the compilation thus far. I'm sad to say that I don't trust them to create new characters with some sort of integrity

I'm not totally sure what you mean by integrity in this case, but they have already invented new characters. Genesis and Angeal aren't very popular. But I don't hear too much abject hatred for the Tsviets themselves. People seem curious about what Weiss is REALLY like. There are any number of things they could do with Argento. Shalua as a character (if not her design) was perfectly fine (then they killed her, but I mean as an example). Nothing's wrong with Denzel himself, or Shelke. I don't see the problem.

All that 'I will never be a memory' crap, and how hes somehow linked in with Clouds mind tank. And the fact that SE wouldn't put out a game without him because he's a money spinner apparently.

He wasn't in Dirge...
And I have ALWAYS thought that line meant that he will always be more than a memory to Cloud. He'll always be an absolutely colossal part of what shaped him as a person no matter how much he tries to forget it.

 

[Wolfmania]

I agree with that assertion Vash.

Sephiroth's spirit is still alive, somewhere in the Lifestream(although rather weak after being pulverized by an omnislash v6).

He can't manifest without any S-Cells for him to renerate from.

My guess, is that he will continue to corrupt the lifestream in the afterlife, and Cloud will have to go back there again, and fight his spirit in battle again.

The afterlife....pretty unsettling scenary.