Kitase would consider FFVII-2

Ghost X

Moderator
In regards to the new villain discussion, there's plenty of room for new minor villain roles, and new protagonist roles for that matter. The original FFVII was entirely capable of explaining the stories of countless characters, I don't see why it should be so difficult to add a few more characters. Fresh perspectives can be good for a story, and will probably be required for this one if it is to equal the awesomeness that was the original. Otherwise, they could probably fit any new story telling into a 2 hour movie =p. That is if they were simply trying to tie up loose ends.
 

Max Payne

Banned
AKA
Leon S. Kennedy,Terry Bogard, The Dark Knight, Dacon, John Marston, Teal'c
I agree with that assertion Vash.

Sephiroth's spirit is still alive, somewhere in the Lifestream(although rather weak after being pulverized by an omnislash v6).

He can't manifest without any S-Cells for him to renerate from.

My guess, is that he will continue to corrupt the lifestream in the afterlife, and Cloud will have to go back there again, and fight his spirit in battle again.

The afterlife....pretty unsettling scenary.

What are you basing any of this on.
 

Max Payne

Banned
AKA
Leon S. Kennedy,Terry Bogard, The Dark Knight, Dacon, John Marston, Teal'c
That, doesn't really imply anything after ACC.
 

Wolfmania

Saint of Killers
That, doesn't really imply anything after ACC.

If you are speculating that Sephiroth's spirit diffused and joined the lifestream after being defeated, then It's possible.

Though, I'd highly doubt It, considering he said as long as Cloud lived he could come back.

Don't take this too overly seriously, It's just a theory of a possible scenario.
 

Alex

alex is dead
AKA
Alex, Ashes, Pennywise, Bill Weasley, Jack's Smirking Revenge, Sterling Archer
I wish Advent Children hadn't done this to the fanbase.
 

Octo

KULT OF KERMITU
AKA
Octo, Octorawk, Clarky Cat, Kissmammal2000
Damn, now I'm behind because I snuck off to eat crisps!

There's just simply not enough Jenova left for him to have any sway over. Great Gospel got rid of any in the vicinity of Edge which included the single greatest collection of them remaining (her head). They may be scattered elsewhere in the world but she's been pretty summarily pulverized. And the end of Crisis Core implies that Genesis doesn't have any anymore either, otherwise he'd still be decaying.
Furthermore, Case of Lifestream Black outlined just how much effort and sacrifice it took for Sephiroth to maintain cohesion in the Lifestream the last time. I doubt he could do it again. Cryptic messages notwithstanding.

Well alrighty then....but I will say this. At the end of FFVII we thought he was deaded too! Like Dacon said 'writers can do anything'


I'm not totally sure what you mean by integrity in this case, but they have already invented new characters. Genesis and Angeal aren't very popular. But I don't hear too much abject hatred for the Tsviets themselves. People seem curious about what Weiss is REALLY like. There are any number of things they could do with Argento. Shalua as a character (if not her design) was perfectly fine (then they killed her, but I mean as an example). Nothing's wrong with Denzel himself, or Shelke. I don't see the problem.


I dont even know who/what Argento is! :(

What I mean by integrity is characters that have some substance and are not based on just looking cool. In my opinion they get churned out like bloody Pokemon.

The only new characters in the compilation that didn't suck ass (opinion!) were Cissnei, Veld and Angeal - except what they did with him plot wise was a load of extraneous bollocks.

Anyway...regardless of my opinions about new characters. I think that the existing characters (from the OG) have been woefully under-represented in the compilation. (With the exception of Cloud, Sephiroth, Vincent and Zack)

Maybe some of those new characters are interesting to some, but on the whole I think the fans would prefer to find out more/explore the characters that they have loved for the past 14 years. If SE are going to do a sequel or wrap up the compilation, then they should make sure to do justice to them, and not cut their screen time in favor of some flashy new douchebags :monster:


He wasn't in Dirge...
And I have ALWAYS thought that line meant that he will always be more than a memory to Cloud. He'll always be an absolutely colossal part of what shaped him as a person no matter how much he tries to forget it.

I knew he wasn't in Dirge, but presumably there was some mention of him? :huh: Anyway I was just going off what I read a few posts ago about the Ultimania..... :whistle:


EDIT:

Also I remember having this convo about Rufus and getting chewed out over it. Everyone was all HERP HE A GOOD GUY NOW IT'D BE STOOPID.

I always thought it was ridiculous that the FF7 crew let all of that shit go to begin with. Tifa talking to Reno like he's an old goddamn friend despite the fact that and his friends are directly responsible for the deaths of hundreds and all other kinds of shit. It was completely unconvincing.

This is a result of SE taking into account that Shinra and the Turks have got a fandom all of its own. Personally I wouldn't have minded if they had stayed antagonistic, and teaming up to fight a common enemy makes sense, but Tifa giggling on the phone with Reno is straight out of the mind of a Pocky-addled fanfic writer of the worst order!

So yeah, they couldn't have the Turks and Rufus be total bastards because fangirls would shit their pants and cry. Not me though, I love bastards :wacky:
 
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ForceStealer

Double Growth
Though, I'd highly doubt It, considering he said as long as Cloud lived he could come back.

That's Kingdom Hearts, don't mistake it for FF7 canon.

I wish Advent Children hadn't done this to the fanbase.

Done what? I'll take this over the fucking LTD any day of the week. If it weren't for AC the LTD is all we'd have.

Well alrighty then....but I will say this. At the end of FFVII we thought he was deaded too! Like Dacon said 'writers can do anything'

Well if we're playing this game than I don't even know why we're gonna debate. Advent Children was fanservice. Anyone who didn't think Sephiroth was going to be present in the first piece of FF7 media in seven years were fooling themselves. And I'll bet there would have been a lot of complaining if Sephiroth hadn't been in it. But Jenova's nature made it fairly easy to explain, but given what they have established since the movie, it would damn hard to bring him back again.


I dont even know who/what Argento is! :(

What I mean by integrity is characters that have some substance and are not based on just looking cool. In my opinion they get churned out like bloody Pokemon.

The only new characters in the compilation that didn't suck ass (opinion!) were Cissnei, Veld and Angeal - except what they did with him plot wise was a load of extraneous bollocks.

Anyway...regardless of my opinions about new characters. I think that the existing characters (from the OG) have been woefully under-represented in the compilation. (With the exception of Cloud, Sephiroth, Vincent and Zack)

Maybe some of those new characters are interesting to some, but on the whole I think the fans would prefer to find out more/explore the characters that they have loved for the past 14 years. If SE are going to do a sequel or wrap up the compilation, then they should make sure to do justice to them, and not cut their screen time in favor of some flashy new douchebags :monster:

Why does any of this justify bringing back Sephiroth again?


I knew he wasn't in Dirge, but presumably there was some mention of him? :huh: Anyway I was just going off what I read a few posts ago about the Ultimania..... :whistle:

I think they said his name maybe twice, and there's a split-second flash of him. But what does that even matter? Bringing him back would be stupid, pretending he never existed might be even dumber.


This is a result of SE taking into account that Shinra and the Turks have got a fandom all of its own. Personally I wouldn't have minded if they had stayed antagonistic, and teaming up to fight a common enemy makes sense, but Tifa giggling on the phone with Reno is straight out of the mind of a Pocky-addled fanfic writer of the worst order!

So yeah, they couldn't have the Turks and Rufus be total bastards because fangirls would shit their pants and cry. Not me though, I love bastards :wacky:

I...don't see this. They were total bastards before, and Rufus continued to be a total bastard, what would the fact that there's a fandom have anything to do with that?
Tifa giggling may have been a bit much, but by the end of VII it's pretty much established that the Turks and Avalanche don't hate one another. The Turks understand Avalanche's position and do what they do solely because of their orders, and Avalanche - Tifa in particular - knows she took plenty of innocent lives herself and probably doesn't consider herself to be in a position to judge.
 

Max Payne

Banned
AKA
Leon S. Kennedy,Terry Bogard, The Dark Knight, Dacon, John Marston, Teal'c
I...don't see this. They were total bastards before, and Rufus continued to be a total bastard, what would the fact that there's a fandom have anything to do with that?
Tifa giggling may have been a bit much, but by the end of VII it's pretty much established that the Turks and Avalanche don't hate one another. The Turks understand Avalanche's position and do what they do solely because of their orders, and Avalanche - Tifa in particular - knows she took plenty of innocent lives herself and probably doesn't consider herself to be in a position to judge.

Hah. I don't care if you're under orders or not. That never justifies such horrific actions. How many terrible things have happened in the world, that people let happen just because they were under orders? That's downright deplorable. Avalanche has EVERY REASON to hate the Turks. In the original game they had no qualms at all committing whatever atrocity they were ordered to do, and didn't even question it. Hell Reno seemed playful about shit. It wasn't until the complilation that they took a 180 and became ridiculous comic relief and suddenly had became conscious of their actions.

Avalanche did cause collateral damage at times, the difference is they didn't mean to. Shinra didn't give a fuck who they hurt. Shinra was A ok with oppression and general abominable acts. Avalanche was trying to save the planet to save people. At the rate Shinra was going, they'd have had the WEAPONS upon the earth in no time anyway.
 

Max Payne

Banned
AKA
Leon S. Kennedy,Terry Bogard, The Dark Knight, Dacon, John Marston, Teal'c
They didn't seem to part on particularly abrasive terms in Midgar, even if you do choose to fight.

That's because they already lost, there was no POINT in being antagonist at that point. It was the end of the world ffs.
 

Max Payne

Banned
AKA
Leon S. Kennedy,Terry Bogard, The Dark Knight, Dacon, John Marston, Teal'c
Don't get me wrong, I ain't saying they were completely evil or anything equally absurd. Just that their apathetic approach to the things they were ordered to do makes them just as responsible as the people that ordered them to do it.

I mean, I sure as hell am not going to kill scores of people because some cunt told me to.
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
Understood. Anyway, I agree her laughing was too much, but I could see her being at least polite to him.

Cloud's greeting was pretty spot on though :monster:
 

Max Payne

Banned
AKA
Leon S. Kennedy,Terry Bogard, The Dark Knight, Dacon, John Marston, Teal'c
Understood. Anyway, I agree her laughing was too much, but I could see her being at least polite to him.

Cloud's greeting was pretty spot on though :monster:

I thought it was out of character for her in general. When exactly did her general distaste for shinra just go away? They NEVER properly resolved the plot thread of her hatred for them for what happened to her hometown and her father.

She held more than Sephiroth responsible for all of that. It's why she joined Avalanche to begin with.

If by polite you mean her greeting them with general indifference, then I'd agree.
 

Max Payne

Banned
AKA
Leon S. Kennedy,Terry Bogard, The Dark Knight, Dacon, John Marston, Teal'c
I would pay to see Tifa just lose her shit and have a general hissy fit. Calling everyone bitches and hoes and telling Cloud to go fuck himself.
 

Wolfmania

Saint of Killers
That's Kingdom Hearts, don't mistake it for FF7 canon.

Not nescessarily.

"As long as Cloud remembers me, I can continue to exist. Within the Lifestream, and on the surface. Even if my spirit disseminates, even if just one fragment of a memory courses around the planet, in the end I can count on Cloud’s consciousness to bring me back, the man thought." - http://thelifestream.net/ffvii-adve...-smile-lifestream-black-and-lifestream-white/

Interpretation of this quote leads one to believe, that as long as Cloud remembers Sephiroth, even his most likely fractured spirit can still exist.
 

Octo

KULT OF KERMITU
AKA
Octo, Octorawk, Clarky Cat, Kissmammal2000
Well if we're playing this game than I don't even know why we're gonna debate. Advent Children was fanservice. Anyone who didn't think Sephiroth was going to be present in the first piece of FF7 media in seven years were fooling themselves. And I'll bet there would have been a lot of complaining if Sephiroth hadn't been in it. But Jenova's nature made it fairly easy to explain, but given what they have established since the movie, it would damn hard to bring him back again.

I'll level with you, I have trouble getting my thoughts in order. Please be patient with me :puppy:

I'm not trying to play a game. I was just stating the fact that they've brought Sephiroth back before, and that they could do it again (although that is admittedly difficult, if they did it wouldn't be the first retcon would it?)

(I haven't really understood much of the compilation thoroughly enough. It doesn't even make sense to me that Jenova's 'head' would still exist, Sephiroth was Jenova for much of the game, why didn't it reabsorb its own head? Doesn't that run counter to the reunion theory? :huh: )

Aaanyway, they could find a way around that, say that Hojo had a bunch of Jenova cells stashed away somewhere if they wanted to :monster:

Why does any of this justify bringing back Sephiroth again?

It doesn't. I was making a separate point about the shoddy treatment of the other characters.

The whole of FFVII essentially hinges on Cloud and Sephiroth though. If Sephiroth is dead and gone, then the compilation is wrapped up as far as I am concerned.

They could still do a sequel without Sephiroth, but that would be the 'continuation of the compilation of FFVII'....which makes my head hurt.

I am of the opinion that you can only go bigger with these things. A sequel would have to be pretty spectacular and epic. Otherwise, like I said, we're back to Luke Skywalker shooting Womp rats after saving the universe. Its crappy, and whats the point?


I think they said his name maybe twice, and there's a split-second flash of him. But what does that even matter? Bringing him back would be stupid, pretending he never existed might be even dumber.

Ah-ha! A split second flash! I knew it :lol:...I wasn't saying that anyway, I was just responding to your pointing out that he wasn't in it.


I...don't see this. They were total bastards before, and Rufus continued to be a total bastard, what would the fact that there's a fandom have anything to do with that?
Tifa giggling may have been a bit much, but by the end of VII it's pretty much established that the Turks and Avalanche don't hate one another. The Turks understand Avalanche's position and do what they do solely because of their orders, and Avalanche - Tifa in particular - knows she took plenty of innocent lives herself and probably doesn't consider herself to be in a position to judge.

Rufus was quite bastardy and manipulative. The fact he was in it at all is a result of the fandom. They couldn't revive Sephiroth and not Rufus without the Shinra fangirls getting angry.

I think they still hate each other at the end of FFVII, (although I doubt the Turks hate anyone, they're just doing a job) The option not to fight at the end of FFVII comes from the fact that as far as the Turks were concerned, Shinra was finished. They were all going to die, and why waste time fighting?

Even if Tifa acknowledges her own crimes, her reaction to Reno is still odd. He did kill her friends. So giggling and smiling is totally inappropriate. "I remember you, you killed my neighbors!....remember when we killed your superiors? Ha ha, classic times. We must do this again!" :@

It should have been thinly veiled hostility, as it was between Cloud, Rufus, Reno and Rude.


Anyway, this is all speculation on my part. I don't even think a sequel will happen, I actually think a remake is more likely. :monster:
 

Max Payne

Banned
AKA
Leon S. Kennedy,Terry Bogard, The Dark Knight, Dacon, John Marston, Teal'c
Not nescessarily.

"As long as Cloud remembers me, I can continue to exist. Within the Lifestream, and on the surface. Even if my spirit disseminates, even if just one fragment of a memory courses around the planet, in the end I can count on Cloud’s consciousness to bring me back, the man thought." - http://thelifestream.net/ffvii-adve...-smile-lifestream-black-and-lifestream-white/

Interpretation of this quote leads one to believe, that as long as Cloud remembers Sephiroth, even his most likely fractured spirit can still exist.

That sounds more like supposition on Sefiro's part.
 

Octo

KULT OF KERMITU
AKA
Octo, Octorawk, Clarky Cat, Kissmammal2000
I would pay to see Tifa just lose her shit and have a general hissy fit. Calling everyone bitches and hoes and telling Cloud to go fuck himself.

She should also kick the shit out of Cloud. I think you should make art of this.
 

Wolfmania

Saint of Killers
That sounds more like supposition on Sefiro's part.

I myself am hesitant to believe in his return.

In AC, Cloud's OmnislashV6 tore his spirit apart(you can actually see It leaving his body with each strike), until he vanished completely, since V6 attacks with spiritualy infused blades.

This is very much akin to what Cloud did to Seph at the end of FFVII.

The question is, if Sephiroth can use the same trick to remain alive.
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
I myself am hesitant to believe in his return.

In AC, Cloud's OmnislashV6 tore his spirit apart(you can actually see It leaving his body with each strike), until he vanished completely, since V6 attacks with spiritualy infused blades.

This is very much akin to what Cloud did to Seph at the end of FFVII.

The question is, if Sephiroth can use the same trick to remain alive.

I agree with Dacon, but even if you're right, if there's not enough Jenova left there's not enough left. Also geostigma would still be a problem if his will was around.

I'll level with you, I have trouble getting my thoughts in order. Please be patient with me :puppy:

I'm not trying to play a game. I was just stating the fact that they've brought Sephiroth back before, and that they could do it again (although that is admittedly difficult, if they did it wouldn't be the first retcon would it?)

Well...okay. They could also have Cloud give birth to a Tonberry.

(I haven't really understood much of the compilation thoroughly enough. It doesn't even make sense to me that Jenova's 'head' would still exist, Sephiroth was Jenova for much of the game, why didn't it reabsorb its own head? Doesn't that run counter to the reunion theory? :huh: )

No he wasn't. Pieces of Jenova masqueraded as Sephiroth, but the Reunited Jenova was Jenova Synthesis that you fight before Sephiroth.

The whole of FFVII essentially hinges on Cloud and Sephiroth though. If Sephiroth is dead and gone, then the compilation is wrapped up as far as I am concerned.

They could still do a sequel without Sephiroth, but that would be the 'continuation of the compilation of FFVII'....which makes my head hurt.

But they already did that. Dirge of Cerberus. And while it may not have been good, I doubt anyone's going to say it was for a lack of Cloud and Sephiroth.


I am of the opinion that you can only go bigger with these things. A sequel would have to be pretty spectacular and epic. Otherwise, like I said, we're back to Luke Skywalker shooting Womp rats after saving the universe. Its crappy, and whats the point?

I am not of that opinion. It's silly that the world be on the brink of absolute demise every 2 years. One thing I have to hand Crisis Core was that it was NOT an earth-shattering threat. And Dirge would have benefited from a smaller version of DG (perhaps only the Tsviets) going after Vincent and not trying to DESTROY THE WORLD.


Ah-ha! A split second flash! I knew it :lol:...I wasn't saying that anyway, I was just responding to your pointing out that he wasn't in it.

...but why bother responding to it? He wasn't in it in any significant means. And it would silly if he wasn't MENTIONED. I'm saying they shouldn't bring him back.

I think they still hate each other at the end of FFVII, (although I doubt the Turks hate anyone, they're just doing a job) The option not to fight at the end of FFVII comes from the fact that as far as the Turks were concerned, Shinra was finished. They were all going to die, and why waste time fighting?

Even if Tifa acknowledges her own crimes, her reaction to Reno is still odd. He did kill her friends. So giggling and smiling is totally inappropriate. "I remember you, you killed my neighbors!....remember when we killed your superiors? Ha ha, classic times. We must do this again!" :@

I already said the laughing was too much. I'm just saying I wouldn't have expected her to answer the phone and start screaming at him. Just leave the line exactly the same but deliver it with indifference.

It should have been thinly veiled hostility, as it was between Cloud, Rufus, Reno and Rude.

There was nothing veiled about how Cloud feels about Rufus and the Turks. He was drawing his sword before he even opened the door.
 

Cat Rage Room

Great Old One
AKA
Mog
I am not of that opinion. It's silly that the world be on the brink of absolute demise every 2 years. One thing I have to hand Crisis Core was that it was NOT an earth-shattering threat. And Dirge would have benefited from a smaller version of DG (perhaps only the Tsviets) going after Vincent and not trying to DESTROY THE WORLD.

I'm going to have to agree on Octo on this, at least in principle. After waiting so long it would be absolutely underwheling for a sequel, and a wrap up, to feature 'Cloud's Adventure's in Cleaning Up The Elfadunk Problem' or some bullshit like that. While yeah, the world almost being destroyed is getting a bit old, the final game, as in, for the big cojones, has to be something big, I think. Something world changing. A political turnover in how Gaia operates, Genesis trying to fuck some shit up, a mass revolution, something.

I mean, end it with some sort of bang, and then end it for good.
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
Well I wasn't suggesting it wbe a day in the life of the Avalanche members, I just mean we don't have to be counting down to the Planet blowing up for the 3rd time in as many years.
 

Octo

KULT OF KERMITU
AKA
Octo, Octorawk, Clarky Cat, Kissmammal2000
Well...okay. They could also have Cloud give birth to a Tonberry.

Have you been reading M-preg? :awesome:

Seriously though they could do that but they probably won't. A return of Sephiroth is more likely because

a)they did it before

b) Sephiroth is a massive draw for many fans (nobody on these forums though it seems...weird)


No we wasn't. Pieces of Jenova masqueraded as Sephiroth, but the Reunited Jenova was Jenova Synthesis that you fight before Sephiroth.

Well that's what I get for not paying attention...also turns out that it wasn't actually her fucking head in AC after all...just cells. So I guess my point was moot.


But they already did that. Dirge of Cerberus. And while it may not have been good, I doubt anyone's going to say it was for a lack of Cloud and Sephiroth.

No of course not. Dirge of Cerberus was a draw because Vincent is very held high in the fans regard. It was always pitched in my mind as a side story for Vincent himself, rather than a true sequel.


I am not of that opinion. It's silly that the world be on the brink of absolute demise every 2 years. One thing I have to hand Crisis Core was that it was NOT an earth-shattering threat. And Dirge would have benefited from a smaller version of DG (perhaps only the Tsviets) going after Vincent and not trying to DESTROY THE WORLD.

Well CC was a prequel, so there was only so much they could have done with that (still managed to fuck it up with Genesis though!)

Dirge was about Vincent though, which changes things slightly, I didn't expect it to be earth shattering, like I said, a side story.

I don't think a sequel should be about absolute destruction either, I probably overdid the phrasing there. But it should have some significance, something that resounds with the fans, and I don't know how they could do that if they just pulled a load of new characters out of the air.

Just to make it clear, I don't want Sephiroth back, I got bored of him as a character 12 years ago. I'm just thinking in terms of making the compilation have some cohesion.

.
..but why bother responding to it? He wasn't in it in any significant means. And it would silly if he wasn't MENTIONED. I'm saying they shouldn't bring him back.

I can't remember, can we just file this under 'brain farts'? Its 4.00 in the morning her fer fecks sake! :lol:


I already said the laughing was too much. I'm just saying I wouldn't have expected her to answer the phone and start screaming at him. Just leave the line exactly the same but deliver it with indifference.

Then we're agreed.


There was nothing veiled about how Cloud feels about Rufus and the Turks. He drew his sword before he even opened the door

Well I meant after that. He was 'civil' but still unfriendly. Sorry should have been clear.
 
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