Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII

[Splintered]

The whining makes me hate being a fan at times, nobody cries about a certain FF chick whose known for big objects having jiggle physics in Disshitdia 012 or do they cry about things like in other games.

This mentality is absolute bullshit, sorry dude. I don't normally disagree with you, but as a fan who is involved in the fandom, dropped money on this game just like everyone else, I have the absolute right to criticize something I find innane or any other crap in this.

If someone argues about the game mechanics, story line, and character derailment and they are a fan, chances are it's not just "whinning-" some of it is valid.

Okay, so the Final Fantasy fandom is some of the whiniest on the net, but it comes with the territory.

There was plenty of complaining about Tifa's jiggle physics in Dissidia around here, thank you very much.

I still liked the game though.

Exactly, it caused actually a pretty heated exchange here. I don't know elsewhere but I know irl, a few of the FF fans I knew didn't particularly complain but they did roll their eyes at it.

Anyway, it comes with a trade off, go to gamefaqs and post in a "who is your favorite character in FF" thread, and anyone who posts "Tifa" gets railed as a horny fanboy, even when other fanservicy characters don't get the same treatment. It's happened to me more than once, it's fucking annoying.

That and Dissidia came with a whole congo line of complaints, mostly "my favorite character isn't in it" and "the characterization sucks" which was true.

And like Force, I did enjoy it. Awful plot line aside, it was a glorious timesink.

If Tres and everyone else enjoys the eye candy, more power to them. I'm not expecting anyone to be "offended" for me.

I just don't see why everyone who points out it's annoying should be expected to shut up and take it. Especially since videogames are notorious for this shit. Like oh no, dmc!dante, oh no u play as girls in GoW, oh no everyone is bi in dragon age, oh no mass effect 3 endings, oh no where is leon kennedy in this game, oh no racism in bioshock, oh no anita sarkesian, oh no xbone, oh no kingdom hearts sequels, oh no parasite eve clothes, oh no my favorite competitor in evo didn't win.

Some of them are legit, some are whining.

Here's the thing with this sexualizing thing, it only annoys people because they find it to be character derailing. Sexy women in sexy clothes don't scare people unless you were spawned in the cesspools of tumblr hell.

This would go away a lot faster if it wasn't machine gunned, I mean, some of the outfits raised a few eyebrows, then a month later there was that pose, then the comment about them upping Lightning's cup, then the XIV outfit with the pose. And now the jiggle physics.

Yes, her chest jiggles. Since everyone can decide what costume she’ll wear, you can make sure it does (laughs). By the way, Since Lightning swings her arm when you change her weapon in the menu screen, that’s a recommended action for sure-fire jiggling! To see it even better it could be useful to equip a small shield. Look forward to it!

Literally that's the fucking quote. How do you not roll your eyes at that? You don't have to see it as a bad thing but you don't see why some fans of her in the first few games wouldn't like it?

In small pieces, I don't think it would cause this much shit. But since this keeps coming out one after the other, it's starting to make other fans think, and I say fans no people who just hate the game mindlessly, that there's a distinct shift in how a character is beginning to be marketed. And changing established characters has always causes controversy.

EDIT

But seriously. Lightning wearing sexy clothes? Happens. Sexy pose, we can blame it on Toriyama because that seems to be his thing. But look at this magazine spread

Spoiler

look at the biggest, in your face image there.

It's not hard to see what they are selling. If you're willing to buy, then by all means, buy and oggle. But if you're a fan and you want to voice your criticism, that's a good road too, man.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Is anyone able to translate this? Much appreciated

I meant to do this like a week ago. Sorry.

あなたの輝力をささげれば 世界に活力が恵まれる滅びを遅らせることができるんです

"If your Eradia is offered, the world will be blessed with vitality, and you'll be able to delay its end."

 

[Splintered]

This came out but there's not much here to say anything. It just them playing around with the costumes and changing the colors, like we've seen in the other demo. There seems to be either a heavily altered costume or an entirely new one that kinda reminds me of Kain's outfit. And it looks like you can save different versions of your costumes like saving paradigm decks in XIII-2.

Also you can hear new(?) background music. It kind of reminds me of overture from the XIII-2 track

 

[Kuja9001]

This mentality is absolute bullshit, sorry dude. I don't normally disagree with you, but as a fan who is involved in the fandom, dropped money on this game just like everyone else, I have the absolute right to criticize something I find innane or any other crap in this.

If someone argues about the game mechanics, story line, and character derailment and they are a fan, chances are it's not just "whinning-" some of it is valid.

Anyway, it comes with a trade off, go to gamefaqs and post in a "who is your favorite character in FF" thread, and anyone who posts "Tifa" gets railed as a horny fanboy, even when other fanservicy characters don't get the same treatment. It's happened to me more than once, it's fucking annoying.

1. While that is true 90% of the fanbase never chooses anything that is actually worth criticizing.

2. Because 50% of the time nothing about her as a character is ever mentioned.

I just don't see why everyone who points out it's annoying should be expected to shut up and take it. Especially since videogames are notorious for this shit. Like oh no, dmc!dante, oh no u play as girls in GoW, oh no everyone is bi in dragon age, oh no mass effect 3 endings, oh no where is leon kennedy in this game, oh no racism in bioshock, oh no anita sarkesian, oh no xbone, oh no kingdom hearts sequels, oh no parasite eve clothes, oh no my favorite competitor in evo didn't win.

Some of them are legit, some are whining.

The only legit things from your list would be DmCrap, Sarkesian, and ME3 endings.

Here's the thing with this sexualizing thing, it only annoys people because they find it to be character derailing.

Its not character derailing, Light will still be a fate defying badass even if she's fighting in a box. If people seriously believe that then they need a blow to the head.

Literally that's the fucking quote. How do you not roll your eyes at that? You don't have to see it as a bad thing but you don't see why some fans of her in the first few games wouldn't like it?

Doesn't bother me because Light isn't my favorite female FF character. I can see why "Lightning fans" be mad but they're complaining about something that has zero impact on the character itself.

In small pieces, I don't think it would cause this much shit. But since this keeps coming out one after the other, it's starting to make other fans think, and I say fans no people who just hate the game mindlessly, that there's a distinct shift in how a character is beginning to be marketed. And changing established characters has always causes controversy.

But she's still the same character(slowly going be to her End Of XIII personality) as she was in the previous games. So something this small shouldn't be a huge deal.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I can see the argument for it being character derailing, absolutely. A character's design is taken as a reflection of their personality to some (often: a large)) degree, or at least meant to have some relevance to who they are as a person.

My favorite example of this is Tifa's extremely sexy outfit in FFVII, despite her being a shy introvert. It makes sense when you remember that she makes her living off running a bar, so it says something about her personality and has ironic value at the same time.

With Lightning's original outfit, she dressed modestly but feminine -- e.g. shorts under her skirt. Given her practical personality, the ideas seemed to go well together.

She's not a sexpot and has never been portrayed as one, so something like the XIV outfit can justifiably be called out of character for her. If she were wearing it to infiltrate a hedonistic party or something, it would make perfect sense, but she presumably won't be doing that.

Now, should that ruin the game? No. Will it ruin the character? No -- or at least not if she still acts like herself. But there's a legitimate stink to be made when it serves no narrative purpose and says nothing about the character, and I can see why people feel that presenting her in this way detracts from who she's supposed to be.

No matter how much I appreciate it on prurient levels, I can see that point.

 

[Splintered]

2. Because 50% of the time nothing about her as a character is ever mentioned.

Then we are hanging out in different spots on the internet because that's what most of the people I hear are saying. The other portions are upset because it's what about Lightning symbolized to them, as a character that didn't need to be "exploited" (whatever their definition of exploited may be) and was marketed as a strong, attractive, but not overly sensationalized character.

The only legit things from your list would be DmCrap, Sarkesian, and ME3 endings.

This is a very small list of huge arguments about the gaming mindset as a whole. The thing is, as consumers we get only two controls of quality measure. That voice and exit. And most people talking about sexualized!Lightning don't want to exit the fandom or hurt LR's chances. They want to voice their criticism. That happens everywhere in gaming.

Its not character derailing, Light will still be a fate defying badass even if she's fighting in a box. If people seriously believe that then they need a blow to the head

It's derailment because you took this character that has been established in one way, that shoehorned her into fanservice. Lightning went from a character who criticized Leabru's outfit to whatever Toriyama is doing with her.

It was so obviously out of place that the "sexy pose" was vetoed out because the creators understood they were taking the character in directions that they shouldn't. Of course you could say hey they took it out- but the fact that Toriyama shoved it back in for the demo because he wanted to show it kind of presents the intent of what he wants to show Lightning as.

That's okay because this is certainly not the most extreme version of derailment. It's just the one with the loudest fights. Yuna's outfit is pretty hilariously out of character. And lots of people argue XIII-2 Lightning is derailed and poorly explained as well.

But she's still the same character(slowly going be to her End Of XIII personality) as she was in the previous games. So something this small shouldn't be a huge deal.

She's a character being taken down paths that a lot of die hard fans are vocally objecting too. This way just happens to be more sexually objectifying. The something small is causing a huge ruckus because all the complaints and fears held by fans kept snowballing in a rush of information that did nothing but confirmed their suspicions.

Lightning's being sexualized in a way that's out of character and doesn't fit with the established image she had. That's pretty much true no matter how you toss the dice.

The real issue is if sexualization is a bad thing. Most people don't mind, for me I don't lose sleep over it. Some people do. That's just what happens when you let people have opinions on the internet.

Hell the "whining" about her outfits in this thread isn't even that much of a huge deal. There's back and forth about it, but compared to what? We had bigger blow outs about the culpability of falcie. Or whether or not Fang and Vanile are in love (they are). The only reason there is a lot of comments about is because a lot of people think it's dumb and will react in a comment. There's no huge crusade to make Lightning wear a purity belt.

I kind of derailed my own point but what I really wanted to say is;

telling people to shut up about their own fandom is dumb. Criticism by the fans happen and doesn't make them "haters". People get passionate about their characters. Lightning is getting heat because marketing is on crack.

 

[Lex]

You know guys, I haven't actually complained about Lightning's new cup size, sexy outfits or jiggle physics for any reason, but there's one big reason I don't like it:

They're using it as a selling point. It wouldn't bother me if they'd added these features to the game and barely mentioned them, but when you've got quotes from the creators about how we should all look forward to putting Lightning in a sexy revealing outfit so we can see her tits jiggling, they're telling me that they think their fan base are all horny 14 year old (straight) boys, and I don't like that at all.

Final Fantasy has one of the most diverse fanbases in the world, so this kind of thing annoys me. If they sexualised Snow I wouldn't care either, but if they were to mention it alongside Lightning's jiggle physics I'd probably be less annoyed. But I'm not, because they're basically whoring her out to the pervy side of straight guys, and that's the bad kind of fanservice.

tl;dr Snow in tight boxers will fix this

 

[ForceStealer]

I meant to do this like a week ago. Sorry.

あなたの輝力をささげれば 世界に活力が恵まれる滅びを遅らせることができるんです

"If your Eradia is offered, the world will be blessed with vitality, and you'll be able to delay its end."

The ease with which that sounds like a double entendre had me seriously trying to consider whether you were joking or not.

 

[Splintered]

The ease with which that sounds like a double entendre had me seriously trying to consider whether you were joking or not.

proof of lightning/hope?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Wouldn't be the first time I was called a biased shippy translator.

 

[Kuja9001]

Snow in tight boxers will fix this

 

[Lex]

Those are not boxers and that makes Snow look like a weedy teenager, so not quite

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Now you're just being picky.

 

[Splintered]

here's some XIII if you must Lex.

 

[Lex]

nummy

 

[AvecAloes]

Why.

 

[Blade]

@Dissidia haters: You vant to shtep outside? You vant to fisticuffs? Tifa is Tifa, so what?

But seriously, physics of that nature are to be expected. I think Dead or Alive was the game that standardized it, Mortal Kombat exemplified it, and well, everything else followed suit...so DEAL WITH IT.

Also, a FACT: there are real-life bras and outfits that increase the illusion of bust size and cleavage appearance.

 

[Mwynn]

But that's really not the problem here. Boobs jiggling is one of the most natural things in the world. Bust sizes too.

But the devs promoted it. And the character they used is Lightning. God fricking Lightning. (lmao I'm very mad over this obviously)

Also, even if Trolliyama is behind this, the rest of Square Enix should be blamed as well for letting things like this happen.

 

[Storm XIII]

"But the devs promoted it"

No, they didn't. Toriyama only answered a question in the Q&A session.

 

[Lex]

Yes, her chest jiggles. Since everyone can decide what costume she’ll wear, you can make sure it does (laughs). By the way, Since Lightning swings her arm when you change her weapon in the menu screen, that’s a recommended action for sure-fire jiggling! To see it even better it could be useful to equip a small shield. Look forward to it!

In what bizarro land is this not promoting it?

 

[Glaurung]

Final Fantasy has one of the most diverse fanbases in the world, so this kind of thing annoys me. If they sexualised Snow I wouldn't care either, but if they were to mention it alongside Lightning's jiggle physics I'd probably be less annoyed. But I'm not, because they're basically whoring her out to the pervy side of straight guys, and that's the bad kind of fanservice.

tl;dr Snow in tight boxers will fix this

You hit the nail there. Sadly, most Japanese devs seem to think that the entire world has a gaming demographic akin to Japan. Just look at the reason why they created Vaan. A character like Basch or Balthier wouldn't have any problem in the Western world (in fact, most heroes in Western media are around or well past their thirties), but over there they are deemed "too old" to be relatable.

And about selling her to horny 14 year-old... well, that might be the mental age of many men over there. Remember that anime depicting teens or preteens girls in all kind of sexual scenarios aren't sold to kids but to adult men.

And since we already got Snow showing a bit of his six-pack in the first game, I think they consider they already filled the quota :/

 

[Mwynn]

My issue lies also to the way it was said. But then again, there's only one site who translated it, and the others considered that as the main source. The idea of the situation itself is off-putting, but the way it is conveyed/worded can slightly change how we'd perceive it. I know that it's true they discussed it, but I'm still quite doubtful of the translation's accuracy.

Here is the original source of the Q&A: http://www.famitsu.com/news/201307/27037360.html

I don't know, maybe someone here who is fluent in the language can help translating.

 

[Blade]

So essentially you're just angry that Lightning isn't Pettanko enough to be "classic Lightning" as she originally appeared?

I'm sorry but PUH-LEAHZE...a girl can change her bust size as much as she changes her opinion on who to choose for pretty men.

Also, I think it's up to Toriyama what he wants to do with Lightning in the end scheme of things... He's going to do what he thinks looks best for her (since she's pretty much his Waifu anyway).

I honestly never cared about her boobs or their size (much less Tifa's much less Rinoa's or Quistis' or Aeriths... Though I do care very much about Jihl Nabaat's boobs).

A character is a character. Even in the case of Soul Calibur, if the bust size goes up... It's because the game alone isn't enough to sell... or just plain that something else isn't working out.

You just have to realize that SEX SELLS. And deal with that. I'm sure if the FF series were more inclined towards the female persuasion, Snow's butt would look tighter than it's ever been. That's just how it is.

 

[Glaurung]

Yes, sexually attractive characters are likely to sell more than those who aren't, but that's one thing, and another very different is making the sexual allure the only existing feature on said character. I know it's not the case with Lightning since she still retains her personality, but seeing the recent interviews you can't blame me if I get worried about the way they might turn her.

 

[Fangu]

You just have to realize that SEX SELLS. And deal with that.

Nope. Everything doesn't have to be about sex. Or, it doesn't have to be about sex in the shape of breasts in your face. Sex isn't just bodies, hell, that is just a small part of it. Sex to me is in an exciting dialogue, a mature character, a mature story, flirting, trust. It's hard to explain, but to me this isn't "sex sells", it's "boobs sell", and the boobs in question are Lightning's boobs, and then I'm like... Lightning's boobs was never what was interesting about her.

I'm sure if the FF series were more inclined towards the female persuasion, Snow's butt would look tighter than it's ever been. That's just how it is.

If his butt was any tighter he'd look like a Tour de France participant, and nobody wants that.

Jokes aside, I see your point, but as much as I do enjoy a nice ass, the story and characters are more important to me. And has way more sexiness-potential. I have to agree with those who say this is a PR thing, which I believe it is (and sadly so). It's sad they feel they have to pull this 'trick' to sell games. There are a lot of games and TV shows who sell without the boobs.

I hope this whole dress-up and fanservice-stuff doesn't ruin the game for me, but I'm afraid it already has a little.