SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

Maidenofwar

They/Them
They went on a date and had the promise of another one which might have also happened. Many agree it makes the most sense canonly for story. Two dates (park and Gold Saucer) and canon attraction/feelings.

Even in Remake the people working on the game talk about how hard they worked to make Cloud and Aerith's time alone together very romantic in terms of aesthetics, music, atmosphere, etc and of it being like a date night.

I found out the music for Aerith dream scene is called Every Moment Matters/Cherish the Moment too. It doesn't matter the time, they intend for everything to be cherished, not for anything to be insignificant or inferior.
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
A huge LTD rant, and why I think the devs are out to kill it.

First, what is exactly the "love triangle" in FFVII OG? Answer: it's a trick. A narrative device the devs used that furthered the illusion for the player that they had full control of Cloud Strife - and his love life. It is also used to make you care for Aerith quite a bit, because you're supposed to think "oh! That's the one!" and then you lose her halfway through while you barely know her. And then, the Northern Crater and the Lifestream scenes happen, and you realise that it's the "side chick" that Cloud loved all along. Starting there, you have no control over Cloud Strife's love life anymore. You realise that your role was akin to Jenova's in his head, but since he's himself, that is gone.

I don't think that when they created the LT as a narrative device, the devs thoughts that the consequences were going to be... so long-lasting. Its major problem is not really that it exists - after the OG was released, they didn't think they'd come back to this world nor thought much of the LT that simply didn't exist in their minds. The problems however are as follow:

1. People do not understand the canon of FFVII and its Compilation

To put it mildly, most simply don't get it. The fact that we ourselves fought for years about the LTD just proves it, and we are hardcore fans. We even debated if Cloud and Tifa were together after AC, which showcases their couple problem and them being reunited at the end. This is how much it distorted our view of the characters and their relationship and the STORY. If you deny that Cloud loves Tifa and ends up with her, you screw up a big part of the game, you don't understand its narrative. Because it's very simple, you shouldn't have to argue over it. It doesn't really matter that people ship whatever they ship, it's their right, they can have fun however they want. Clerith is cute, if people prefer that, be it. However if you distort Cloud's character to make him love and search for Aerith after the end of the game, in the light of the Compilation, it just makes him a huge arsehole. And Cloud Strife is *not* a huge arsehole.

There is a whole set of fans who truly believe that in FFVII, you "pick the girl you want", and... that's simply not what happens. You have to turn a blind eye and think that the romance part basically end at the Gold Saucer date.

In the end, I think that it really what's bother the devs. Their message simply did not go through; they have a story about a character who's messed up mentally, who needs help, who grows up a loooooot during the game and around it... and the message that a lot of people feel is "pick up who you like, lol". This is probably the reason why I'm still arguing the LTD. At first it was because of shipping lolz, but nowadays I feel it's more because I feel offended on the behalf of the devs that their story has become so distorted. For clerith to work like some of their fans (and I insist that it's luckily far from the whole clerith fandom) claim it does, it means that you have to distort completely the characters and the story. This is no wonder that a large subset of these fans bash Tifa and Zack, because those two characters' existence simply disprove a lot of their theories.

This muddling and changing goals and outright lies have been going on for years and have left such a huge scar in the FFVII fandom that you cannot be a shipper without being labelled as crazy. And it's sad, because both cloti and clerith are cute. You shouldn't be labelled as crazy for liking one pair. They're made to be both loved by the devs.

2. Hatred towards the main heroines

And I say that as someone who hated Aerith in the OG. It took me a recent playthrough again to think "she's OK" as a character. And that was with a Remake behind me because I think Remake really made me appreciate Aerith and understand her more. When I see her in Remake and OG, I see what the devs mean when they say "the characters have always been like this in our minds". I never really spread hateful messages about her though I just stated this rather bluntly here :D

If you look back, it sucks because originally, Aerith and Tifa were one character. But the LTD was born because basically, people misunderstood their roles: Aerith is the heroine who takes care of the overarching story; Tifa as the heroine who takes care of the intimate plot. They compliment each other, but cannot replace each other's role. They both guide Cloud throughout the game. You are supposed to enjoy both heroines' presence.

However, there is a set of fans who hate one of the two heroines depending on who they ship Cloud with. While this is nothing new, I find that the hate and lies being spread become more and more outrageous. It is very clear to me that, with Remake, the devs intended to make BOTH heroines loved by the fans. They have erased a lot of complains we had about one or the other throughout the years. Again, hate distort their characters (Tifa's just fanservice, people just love her tits is something I often see) and thus, the message that the devs are sending. I think it is no mistake that they have insisted a LOT on their friendship; how dare we hate their best friend? Rather than pitting them against each other, we're supposed to see their friendship and enjoy it (and luckily, I think a laaaaaaarge subset of the fans did see it and is enjoying it).

3. Distorsion of Cloud's character

I have already spoken about it, but when you say ugly things such as:

- Aerith means nothing to him

or

- He had fleeting feelings for Tifa, his first love is Aerith

You are missing on. So. Much.

And it's not as if SE wasn't very clear and loud there; to Cloud, everything is precious. That's his answer in ACC. Zack, Aerith, Tifa, the kids, they're all precious to him. In different ways, yes. But the bonds he made are more important than anything. Just because they're not romantic doesn't mean they don't mean anything. The fact that he's known Aerith so little has literally nothing to do with how much he considers her.

And if you dare say that his feelings for Tifa were fleeting, you are basically ignoring what the climax of the story tells you: that everything began because Cloud Strife was in love with Tifa Lockhart. The fact that his world grows and that he makes precious bonds along the way IS the important message, but the core of FFVII? It's Cloud and his relationship with Tifa.

And because you belittle the Lifestream scene, you belittle Tifa's role, how she was able to piece him together and show him the way - it's literally her guiding him through the Lifestream scene, wanting him to find the answer by himself so he'd be able to tell her the truth.

ACC goes into the psyche of a depressed Cloud - I know I didn't like it, I know a lot of people want Aerith (and Zack possibly) to live just because they don't want depressed!Cloud. I can understand that feeling - probably because the movie really isn't that great, it's too complicated to understand and you have to read the novellas to fully get the message - but on the other hand, now that I do understand what the devs had in mind... I find it very precious. It's not an easy message, to have your main character being depressed and people around him trying to cope with the same thoughts AND himself at the same time. Accepting to move on from death, may it be friends or lovers has always been a theme in FFVII. So, in a way, I really appreciate that. And they gave him a happy ending, which I also appreciate.

4. The LTD overshadows pretty much everything else

Pretty much the title. One thing that struck me is what a youtuber who played Remake blind last year said (Materwelonz for reference); she said she didn't know *anything* about FFVII or its Compilation, but she knew... that there was a love triangle, and she feared it because the 90's were quite ugly on that side of storytelling. She didn't even know about Aerith's death but somehow managed to catch about the love triangle! How NOT TO HATE that? Where are the messages of FFVII, of an ecoterrorist group fighting for the planet, of life and death? It's nowhere! I can't fathom how annoying that must be for the devs. They have made a great game, but what's left? One guy and two girls fighting over him? Ugh. No wonder they made their friendship so much in your face.

5. The devs are out to kill it

They really do. They do not like the LT. They're always asked about it instead of other interesting stuff; that is why last year when asked about it, they insisted about Aerith and Tifa separatly, as characters, because that's how they see them. They want them to shine by themselves, for themselves. I think it's a shame they didn't have time to include the Tifa bonus, to be honest, because it's clearly and answer to Aerith helping people around as Shinra is attacking the pillar.

But to truly see what they are doing with the LT, it's best to simply watch and dissect Remake. To be blunt, in the OG we had so many choices for the LT it was absolutely crazy. However here, this is not the case. We have much, much less choice this time around. It's basically a bunch of quests and who you pick in the sewers. Plus! Every scene is canon! Please get to see them all because they display the bonds that Cloud is developping with everyone!

The LT in itself was pretty much reduced to a few nods in chapter 11... and even then, if you look really at what's happening there, if you go slomo on the scenes to see behind the smoke the devs are pulling on you, it's very clear that Cloud has already chosen Tifa. I can fight you about this later on if you really want, but it's reallyyyyyyy clear. The fact that it's pulling smoke and make you think that the girls are even is in itself the nod to the LT, however just like in the OG, there is a hidden path that shows Cloud's true feelings (because I'd argue that in the OG, the path to get Tifa was rather... hidden).

One of the reasons why they want us to be aware of the OG and Compilation, clearly, is to free themselves from the LT. They don't want to be bound by it, even if there will be more cloti and clerith scenes in the future, I am persuaded that their message about who Cloud loves will be very clear.

They have already shown in part 1 the difference of treatment that Tifa gets compared to basically anyone else, despite her being a competent fighter. This will continue because "only her opinion counts" (I'm sorry Barret at the number of time you look like a third wheel :D even you, Aerith).

They have created new memories of Tifa that are made up by Jenova... why? Because Tifa did not notice Cloud when they were kids, but his desire to be noticed by her is that strong. So Jenova manipulated him into thinking that way. I may add that the addition of Tifa's flashback with Jessie asking about Cloud and Tifa's relationship as soon as chapter 1 is there to make sure that you, as the player, will care about that "Tifa" because obviously, there is something going on there.

They also have created new scenes with high sexual tension between him and Tifa, and the UST is just... phenomenal lol. At this point, when the Highwind scene will kick in, we'll be relieved for Cloud haha.

They have made sure we'd know that it's his SOLDIER persona around Aerith and his true persona around Tifa that make him act and speak as he does (not that he doesn't try to pull off the SOLDIER stuff with Tifa, but I've seen enough cleriths already claiming the contrary, which is... audacious, considering the Ultimania is barely a year old).

On the other side, we also have seen Aerith still stuck on Zack and how she made Cloud do things she wanted to do with Zack. How scarred she is that he's not around anymore. The comparisons she draws between the two. And her understanding already the bond between Cloud and Tifa.

So yes, the Lifestream scene and the Highwind scene will be loud and clear - and they don't need to have 2 Highwind scenes this time around. It's a high bet that we're going to have the high affection scene for that one, because Tifa's line there is iconic.

However, and I feel like a broken record there, the fact that some prefer clerith doesn't really mean it's the end. We're talking about canon ending there, and it's my belief that there will be more clerith along the way. But the fact is that this time, the devs are free from the LT and add *more* cloti to make sure that most players do get the point: it's not "up to you", Cloud loves Tifa.
 

KindOfBlue

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Blue
Damn Eerie I’ll definitely have to set aside time to read through all that lmao

if cloud ends up with tifa but then the developers say "so cloud ends up with tifa but aerith was his true love", that to me means that clerith is the true romantic relationship of ff7.
I think some of the people who really wanted Cloud and Aerith together are fighting to prove this to be true and that’s why this debate is still ongoing, but it’s certainly hard to reconcile that idea with what happens in the Lifestream

Like I said I aint 20 years deep in this fandom, as a newcomer to this I'm legit baffled most of the time how this is even an argument, it's like denying the truth that is laid out in plain sight for you to see.
Fellow newcomer to the fanbase here going on a year now. My guess is because a lot of this information is already available to us now, we’re not in the position that many oldheads were in with having to fill in so many gaps. Advent Children certainly gave way to the idea that Cloud was rejecting Tifa for Aerith (even if the devs never said anything like that), and Crisis Core really threw the Zack and Aerith relationship into the mix so there’s been plenty of time for people to formulate their own opinions and double down on them even in the face of evidence to the contrary. If there’s ever an opportunity to put the nail in the coffin, it’s the remake…and yet, people will still argue anyways.

They went on a date and had the promise of another one which might have also happened. Many agree it makes the most sense canonly for story. Two dates (park and Gold Saucer) and canon attraction/feelings.

Even in Remake the people working on the game talk about how hard they worked to make Cloud and Aerith's time alone together very romantic in terms of aesthetics, music, atmosphere, etc and of it being like a date night.

I found out the music for Aerith dream scene is called Every Moment Matters/Cherish the Moment too. It doesn't matter the time, they intend for everything to be cherished, not for anything to be insignificant or inferior.
It really depends on what your standard is for considering a couple canon is. If your standard is that both sides have to like each other, both are canon. But if your standard is both couples have to actually be in a relationship, then the only couple with a chance at that is Cloud and Tifa. Which presents an problem for some of those who wanted Cloud and Aerith together, as they now have to play defense to diminish any possibility of Cloud and Tifa being a thing since their own chance has been taken from them.

So if the question is “who does Cloud love more” or “who does Cloud end up with” (neither of which are questions that are actually important to the story, hence why they’ve never been answered directly) the information currently available doesn’t exactly lean so well in the favor of those who like Cloud and Aerith. But it doesn’t mean they couldn’t have been a thing either. You’ll get something between them surely but if it’s anything like the OG, it just won’t end with the fairy tale ending that many are hoping for.

EDIT: @Eerie

I think on average, the fans put infinitely more thought into the LTD than the devs ever had. So when I see stuff about how the love triangle was set up to be intentionally deceiving and all of the analysis that goes into how it works with the story, I kinda just laugh not because it isn’t true, but because I think a lot of what makes FF7 so poignant happened more accidentally than people realize.

Typically I never look further than what has openly been expressed by the devs directly. So when I look at the devs and how they speak of the love triangle, I don’t hear them breaking down how each specific little element of the game works towards this intricate and detailed story about blah blah blah…I think they just thought it was cool to have two love interests since they decided Aerith would die.

That’s not to say that any analysis of how the love triangle works through gameplay and story is wrong per se, I just think direct statements are more definitive. I don’t think the devs care so much about ending the debate because I feel like for them, it’s not about the debate. If the debate mattered so much to them, I feel like they’d address it a lot more considering how open they are about everything else.

In terms of what they do care about though based on what’s been openly expressed, I think they just want to tell the story they’ve always told (with a lot of new stuff of course but still staying faithful to the core of the OG). And so I’m with you there, painting these characters out to be assholes just doesn’t fit with the intentions of the devs. I don’t think they’re specifically trying to make the LTD obsolete, it’s just that how fans perceive these characters doesn’t always fit with the story that the devs want to tell. And perhaps the more the story goes along, the harder it’ll be for some fans to insert their own ideas into it.

So for me, it’s simple. If a question about the LTD doesn’t have a definitive answer, it’s because it doesn’t matter. If the question does have a definitive answer, you should be able to point to a specific source, be it the material itself or an official statement, and just leave it at that. Once people start trying to get all analytical, it opens the door for all kinds of headcanon to muddy the waters.
 
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frosty

Pro Adventurer
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The Snowman
Maidenofwar said:
Two dates (park and Gold Saucer)
I literally timed the scene where they were sitting on the slide in the park and it was... Slightly over 2 minutes. In which Cloud's answer to her request to rest is "No. I don't have time for that" and she spends the convo fishing for info about Zack. I...I... Did we play the same game?

BoxFBall said:
Like I said I aint 20 years deep in this fandom, as a newcomer to this I'm legit baffled most of the time how this is even an argument, it's like denying the truth that is laid out in plain sight for you to see.

KindofBlue said:
Fellow newcomer to the fanbase here going on a year now. My guess is because a lot of this information is already available to us now, we’re not in the position that many oldheads were in with having to fill in so many gaps

Aww you guys are babies. I followed Advent children's development after playing the OG as a young teen and as someone who has grown with the compilation I can honestly say without bias, that the developers over the years have only been injecting more clarity and exposition into Cloud and Tifa's relationship. It was NOT in plain sight back then. In your timeline, you got Remake first, then filled with the rest of the compilation.

For me, AC set the family tone, but was devoid of affection (for either woman), having Tifa appear in KHII was good enough, having Cloud actually touch her face in CC/LO was frankly, shocking. When FF7R rolled out, I literally had to ask myself If I was actually playing FFVII because I did not expect all that train rolling and hand holding and flower giving.

But if your standard is both couples have to actually be in a relationship, then the only couple with a chance at that is Cloud and Tifa
I think the devs have already committed to the end game that Cloud and Tifa are essentially a in a relationship, and they're committed to the Compilation, which includes AC. They now just want to fill the gaps to show people how they actually got there in a believable manner, and not fast forward from blocks to old married couple needing therapy :P
 
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KindOfBlue

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Blue
I will say that a date by itself means little, you can go on a date with Barret or Yuffie too but obviously not enter a relationship with either. Maybe different cultures have different ideas about what dating is but there actually is a difference between “dating someone” (typically meant to also mean “being in a relationship”) and “going on a date with someone” (which says nothing for what your actual relationship status is with that person, only that you went on a date with them).

Same goes for Aerith and Tifa, if all there was to either them was the date, then there’d be practically nothing there. What adds weight to those dates is knowing how the characters actually feel and where the story goes with their relationships.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
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TresDias
Maybe different cultures have different ideas about what dating is but there actually is a difference between “dating someone” (typically meant to also mean “being in a relationship”) and “going on a date with someone” (which says nothing for what your actual relationship status is with that person, only that you went on a date with them).
Yeah, there is a significant difference in meaning between "they dated" and "they went on dates." I've personally been on many dates each with women I wasn't dating.
 

frosty

Pro Adventurer
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The Snowman
KindofBlue said:
Same goes for Aerith and Tifa, if all there was to either them was the date, then there’d be practically nothing there. What adds weight to those dates is knowing how the characters actually feel and where the story goes with their relationships.
Precisely - my surprise was more of Cloud/Aerith went on one (or two, depending on opinion) date, but it didn't constitute as "dating" that lends the same weightage as what Zack/Aerith had.

Case in point another example: Cloud asked Tifa to a popular date spot. They were not dating. However, it lends overall context to the romantic subplot, because the promise made at time becomes an axis to their relationship. It also serves the story to show Tifa was a very popular girl because a lot of boys asked her to that date spot. But Cloud and Tifa were not dating.

The Twilight Mexican said:
I've personally been on many dates each with women I wasn't dating.
I've been on many dates, but if those gentlemen had told others we were "dating", I would have smacked him :)
 

LNK

Pro Adventurer
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Nate
Precisely - my surprise was more of Cloud/Aerith went on one (or two, depending on opinion) date, but it didn't constitute as "dating" that lends the same weightage as what Zack/Aerith had.

Case in point another example: Cloud asked Tifa to a popular date spot. They were not dating. However, it lends overall context to the romantic subplot, because the promise made at time becomes an axis to their relationship. It also serves the story to show Tifa was a very popular girl because a lot of boys asked her to that date spot. But Cloud and Tifa were not dating.


I've been on many dates, but if those gentlemen had told others we were "dating", I would have smacked him :)

Do people even consider it dating after only going out once or twice with someone?
 

Maidenofwar

They/Them
One, two canon dates and feelings is a lot more than some fanon FF ships get.

It's hardly fair to say there was no romantic subplot to it or context especially in OG where Aerith asked for date with Cloud which he accepted, she wanted another after, Cloud had feelings, and Aerith at least was pursuing something right up to asking about their future with Cait Sith, so up to an extent it was pursued although Aerith went to face her fate as Cetra and to go and help try and save it's planet and it's people after.

Remake is different because I don't know if there will be a second date which is why I think the staff might have put so much into the time Aerith and Cloud spent together from Chapter 8 up until certain part in Chapter 9. They talk about the romantic atmosphere, music tracks etc and a date, and of the music they made and how it was used like Midnight Rendezvous/Collapsed Highway/High Five being used as the distance between Aerith/Cloud lessons and they grow closer. Others refer to them as a couple in Chapter 9, they get called lovebirds, etc, confetti is thrown on them. It might all just be one big love letter to CxA fans but it was nice.

Also I'm easy to please if some people do see Cloud/Tifa night at well as date I have no beef with that :monstersmash:
 

LNK

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Nate
One, two canon dates and feelings is a lot more than some fanon FF ships get.

It's hardly fair to say there was no romantic subplot to it or context especially in OG where Aerith asked for date with Cloud which he accepted, she wanted another after, Cloud had feelings, and Aerith at least was pursuing something right up to asking about their future with Cait Sith, so up to an extent it was pursued although Aerith went to face her fate as Cetra and to go and help try and save it's planet and it's people after.

Remake is different because I don't know if there will be a second date which is why I think the staff might have put so much into the time Aerith and Cloud spent together from Chapter 8 up until certain part in Chapter 9. They talk about the romantic atmosphere, music tracks etc and a date, and of the music they made and how it was used like Midnight Rendezvous/Collapsed Highway/High Five being used as the distance between Aerith/Cloud lessons and they grow closer. Others refer to them as a couple in Chapter 9, they get called lovebirds, etc, confetti is thrown on them. It might all just be one big love letter to CxA fans but it was nice.

Also I'm easy to please if some people do see Cloud/Tifa night at well as date I have no beef with that :monstersmash:

Oh I definitely think Cloud had feelings for Aerith. But, it the end, he ended up with Tifa. Wondering "what if" is cool, but it's just a losing battle when it comes down to it. If people wanna write fan fics about Cloud being with Aerith, I'm all for it. It's just when people go into the "Cloud and Tifa don't love each other, they're only friends," is where it gets annoying. It's like, what compilation material were those people digesting? Haha
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
Personally, I am not so sure that Cloud's feelings were romantic. I don't feel he went there, even if he was attracted to Aerith. Maybe he started developping something, but those feelings were definitely not enough. If you look at the OG and the Compilation, Aerith dies and like one to two weeks after he confirms his feelings with Tifa and they sleep together. I think, given that it is Cloud... if he truly had romantic feelings for Aerith, this would've been harder for him to do. And in CoT, right after, he clearly shows that he doesn't envision his life without Tifa. So while I do see what people are saying when they say he could've loved Aerith, I am not so sure he truly went there. Because it's Cloud. If he had fallen for Aerith, it would have taken longer to settle those feelings. He wouldn't be like "Tifa I love you" so easily, even if he loves both women.

There's also the fact that before the Lifestream scene, he wasn't only attracted to Aerith, but also to Tifa (which is why you can get a romantic date with her), and I do think that it muddles feelings and makes them more difficult to understand. If you're attracted to 2 persons at the same time, probably there is no romantic feelings just yet. And once he rediscovers himself in the Lifestream, it clears that because he knows the feelings of "love" and they're for Tifa.

However all of that doesn't mean that Aerith isn't precious to him; she is. But I don't see it in the romantic sense, especially since in ACC he calls her "Mother" which, while it's a call to her role then, it also a really good romance killer.
 

looneymoon

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Rishi
Oh man I saw the person's first few posts and I'm surprised (or not?) they were actually getting engagement.

Anyways as far as remake goes, any argument about how Cloud reacts to Aerith could just as easily apply to Jessie. Change my mind.

:desu:
 
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KindOfBlue

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Blue
Do people even consider it dating after only going out once or twice with someone?
Generally no unless some kind of commitment to a relationship follows, otherwise it’s just “we went on two dates”…I guess you could say “we dated” but people would assume that there was some kind of commitment based on that language instead of taking it to literally mean “we went on two dates”

Remake is different because I don't know if there will be a second date which is why I think the staff might have put so much into the time Aerith and Cloud spent together from Chapter 8 up until certain part in Chapter 9. They talk about the romantic atmosphere, music tracks etc and a date, and of the music they made and how it was used like Midnight Rendezvous/Collapsed Highway/High Five being used as the distance between Aerith/Cloud lessons and they grow closer. Others refer to them as a couple in Chapter 9, they get called lovebirds, etc, confetti is thrown on them. It might all just be one big love letter to CxA fans but it was nice.

Also I'm easy to please if some people do see Cloud/Tifa night at well as date I have no beef with that :monstersmash:
I mean, a guy and a girl just being with each other especially in a place like Wall Market, regardless of whether or not they’re actually a couple, of course people are gonna assume they are even though they only learned each others’ names just hours before lol.

For what it’s worth, I do consider them a canon ship insofar as there was a spark there between them, but as far as getting to the point of actually being in a romantic relationship…well, you know how it goes. As for the Gold Saucer, it’s such a memorable location that I’m sure they’ll still let players go on different dates.

Personally, I am not so sure that Cloud's feelings were romantic. I don't feel he went there, even if he was attracted to Aerith. Maybe he started developping something, but those feelings were definitely not enough. If you look at the OG and the Compilation, Aerith dies and like one to two weeks after he confirms his feelings with Tifa and they sleep together. I think, given that it is Cloud... if he truly had romantic feelings for Aerith, this would've been harder for him to do. And in CoT, right after, he clearly shows that he doesn't envision his life without Tifa. So while I do see what people are saying when they say he could've loved Aerith, I am not so sure he truly went there. Because it's Cloud. If he had fallen for Aerith, it would have taken longer to settle those feelings. He wouldn't be like "Tifa I love you" so easily, even if he loves both women.

There's also the fact that before the Lifestream scene, he wasn't only attracted to Aerith, but also to Tifa (which is why you can get a romantic date with her), and I do think that it muddles feelings and makes them more difficult to understand. If you're attracted to 2 persons at the same time, probably there is no romantic feelings just yet. And once he rediscovers himself in the Lifestream, it clears that because he knows the feelings of "love" and they're for Tifa.

However all of that doesn't mean that Aerith isn't precious to him; she is. But I don't see it in the romantic sense, especially since in ACC he calls her "Mother" which, while it's a call to her role then, it also a really good romance killer.
I think it’s fair to say he at least had a crush on her, Aerith’s feelings for Cloud are probably a lot stronger than his are for her based on what’s actually been expressed between the two but who knows what’ll happen with Zack thrown in the mix

Anyways as far as remake goes, any argument about how Cloud reacts to Aerith could just as easily apply to Jessie. Change my mind.
I’m pretty sure the one who would try to change your mind was banned a while ago lol
 
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LNK

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Nate
Generally no unless some kind of commitment to a relationship follows, otherwise it’s just “we went on two dates”…I guess you could say “we dated” but people would assume that there was some kind of commitment based on that language instead of taking it to literally mean “we went on two dates”

That's the same way I look at it. If all you did was go out twice with someone, I wouldn't really consider that dating. To each their own though
 

Graymouse

Pro Adventurer
Going on two dates with someone, I would consider that at best getting to know each other. Besides there was no indications of commitment by either. Especially what was said above, they only just meet each other hours ago.

On their first date, Cloud was against stopping because he wanted to get back to Sector 7. Aerith kinda forced him to take a break and sit down with her. I believe this was mentioned above as well, Aerith knew that Cloud was in SOLDIER and she was fishing for information about Zack so I am not sure that would be considered a date. To each their own.

Regarding the date at Wall Market, Cloud was on a rescue mission to save Tifa. That is the only reason they were at Wall Market with each other in the first place. I am not saying that they didn't enjoy themselves with each other because they did. That would be hypocritical of me to do so. However, lets be honest with ourselves, It is not like Aerith asked Cloud to go to Wall Market with her or anything like that.
 

Maidenofwar

They/Them
Extremism scary :sigh::faint:

I really think it's a shame people can't enjoy both in their different ways, I think the bonds between the characters are special and beautifully crafted and especially with the remake you can see the great care staff put into everything. At the end of the day there's not a thing Cloud doesn't cherish, if real he'd probably fight people for trying to undermine that :desuawesomonster:
 
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Eerie, that post was so great - so comprehensive, articulate and well argued - I copied and pasted it into a google doc so that I'll be able to refer to it in future.
 
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