SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Makoeyes987]

I'm pretty positive it was before Advent Children. That was when Nomura stated he didn't know who ended up with whom.

 

[Thenir]

Speaking of Nomura, could somebody clarify when exactly he made the quote about not knowing Cloud and Tifa’s relationship status. Was this before or after “Case of Tifa”?

Take me with a grain of salt because I found it on a blog:

"A Final Fantasy VII fan interviewed Tetsuya Nomura for Dorimaga magazine and asked “How many girls has Sephiroth ever loved?”. In reaction, Nomura spoke evasively in anticipation of more questions regarding Cloud and Tifa’s love life, which have nothing to do with Sephiroth.
Tetsuya Nomura: What kind of question is that? I’ve never thought about it. Honestly, I don’t care who loves whom. I think you could imagine the scenerios that we don’t mention however you want to. You could enjoy talking about that with friends. For example, I was frequently asked if there had been romantic relationship between Tifa and Cloud for two years, after FF7 ended, but I don’t have any clue. ~Dorimaga magazine; interview with Nomura; November, 2005"

Episode: Denzel and Episode: Tifa were released in 2005, Episode: Barret in 2007, the whole book in 2009.

Personally I really wouldn't put much weight in this kind of statements. It's a matter of fact that SE decided to handle this aspect with ambiguity, every time someone will ask them who Cloud Strife loves (probably in every interview since 97) they'll give evasive answers. That's a mere business policy, people are obsessed about the LTD so they'll consume every piece of media where a FFVII character is featured even just for a minute, in order to get an answer. And they do put FFVII characters in every spin-off with ambiguous lines that never get to the point.
Let's be honest, this attitude didn't always work well, with the result that DoC feels disjointed to the main FFVII plot since I'm not sure if Cloud appears on screen for 5 minutes (Vincent faces the attack on Edge alone), and people felt entitled to spread the "Cloud is a suicidal love sick emo" interpretation about AC.
That's not indicative of the story not having a logic outcome, that's hinted everywhere, they just never stated - or made a character state loud and clear - "Cloud loves X". No matter how much illogic and unrespectful one interpretation is, someone will always feel entitled to support it because "the devs never said I can't interpret it this way".

 

[Makoeyes987]

Well I stand corrected, that's the quote I was thinking of, thank you!

 

[frosty]

Original Japanese release dates, if it helps anyone to put context around when and what was being said. Feel free to correct if there's anything wrong!

KH: September 2002
Before Crisis: September 2004
AC: September 2005
Maiden Who Travels the Planet + Ultimania Omega: September 2005
KH 2: December 2005
FFVII: Tech Demo E3 2005
Dirge of Cerberus: Jan 2006
Crisis Core: September 2007
Dissidia FF: Dec 2008
ACC: Announced as "Director's cut" in 2007. Released April 2009 - "On The Way To A Smile" set of books released at the same time
Dissidia 012: March 2011
The Kids are Alright: Dec 2011
FFVII remake announcement: 2015
Mobius FF: June 2015
Decision to break FFVII remake into multiple parts: 2017
FFVII Remake: April 2020

I believe Case of Denzel / Case of Tifa might have been released earlier as short stories on the official Advent Children site, before the other Case Of stories which were compiled as the book to add in as extra material for ACC.

*Edit: Throwing in Dissidia 012 / Mobius 2015 because I've seen some people use these games plotwise to highlight Cloud/Tifa's relationship. But they're AU. But I put in KH. So yeah.

Probably ambiguity would be around the 2002 - 2005 sections, where they were just starting to expand the FFVII universe and having press events to talk about the characters, yet not give plot points away for the related launches at that time.

Or they hadn't invested too much into thinking about certain character interactions until Crisis Core.

I initially thought they decided to have more of Zack in ACC because of Crisis Core, but it seems the other way around, or more of a concurrent development.

 

[KindOfBlue]

That's a mere business policy, people are obsessed about the LTD so they'll consume every piece of media where a FFVII character is featured even just for a minute, in order to get an answer.

It’s funny how the specific point trying to be proven can affect the kinds of arguments made even when it all fundamentally boils down to “Tifa or Aerith?”

Ask “who does Cloud love?” and every shipper will comb through every single instance of the use of the word “love”, “lover”, “beloved”, “koibito” etc. and every mention of romantic feelings across dialogue, interviews, and ultimanias.

Ask “who does Cloud love more?” and it gets a bit shaky. Now you have to try to prove that he prefers one over the other, which I don’t personally believe can be done with the current information. Usually this argument goes into the area of deductive reasoning (ex. “Cloud liked Tifa for way longer than he liked Aerith” or “Cloud is still hung up over Aerith after her death so he’s still not committed to Tifa”)

Ask “who does Cloud have a relationship with?” and people either point to the affection mechanics or, because Cloud and Aerith don’t actually get the chance to go as far as becoming boyfriend and girlfriend, they debate whether or not Cloud and Tifa are boyfriend and girlfriend during OtWtaS and AC.

So perhaps Nomura considers such questions inconsequential because if a definitive answer we’re given one way or the other, they wouldn’t actually change the story? And if that’s the case, anything beyond what’s been explicitly stated is conjecture or headcanon.

In other words, if an argument requires ignoring or manipulating evidence to make a point, then it’s pretty easy to dismiss them by pointing to evidence to the contrary. If an argument requires making things up that haven’t been stated as facts, then it’ll be harder to back up with definitive statements.

But will that stop anybody from making stupid claims about FF7?…NOPE!

 

[ph14basicbitch]

I think you should tell shippers to prove Cloud even knows how to find a vagina first.

 

[Tetsujin]

Decision to break FFVII remake into multiple parts: 2017

That was announced in December 2015, in the press release for the PSX trailer

 

[Thenir]

So perhaps Nomura considers such questions inconsequential because if a definitive answer we’re given one way or the other, they wouldn’t actually change the story? And if that’s the case, anything beyond what’s been explicitly stated is conjecture or headcanon.

Idk, I've been on this fandom a while now and I've seen all kind of people bringing up the most extravagant argumentations, twisting quotes, scenes and interviews;
counting if there are more cameos where Cloud is romantically coded with Tifa or Aerith, Aerith with Cloud or Zack;
enlisting quotes over quotes from Ultimanias and Dismantled often through the lens of biased fan translations (and I sit here thinking that the scenario descriptions are compiled by studio Bentstaff's employees and they're a mere interpretation of what's displayed in the game and not some sort of divine revelations);
arbitrarely selecting if to rely on Japanese/English/whatever-most-convenient localization;
misinterpreting the aim of affection points;
twisting the nature and motivations of Cloud's alter ego;
spitting on Aerith or Tifa & Zack because if you support a ship you have to hate the rival character(s);
glorifying the devs for the OG but insulting the same people for CC;
making the most convoluted syllogisms to validate a personal preference over what makes sense from a narrative standpoint and who cares if I have to erase every deeper theme of the story in order to do it.

And I honestly think that this war is grotesque and pointless and I just hope SE is done with it, because actually love DOES play a role in this story on different levels and once one tries to diminish its importance parts of the narration don't make sense anymore. It was so back in the 90s, and now even more after 20+ years of always more realistic developments and the addition of sequels. It's useless to leave this ambiguity for the sake of keeping fans on their toes for commercial reasons and allow them to spread nonsenses like "Cloud absorbed Zack's memories but in reality he never cared about Aerith" or "Denzel is Cloud and Aerith's spiritual son but he abondons him because he wants to be reunited with Aerith".

 

[Eerie]

Ask “who does Cloud love more?” and it gets a bit shaky. Now you have to try to prove that he prefers one over the other, which I don’t personally believe can be done with the current information.

The amusing thing is I believe Cloud gives himself this information in Northern Crater: To Tifa: "Only your opinion counts." And then we follow up with Tifa devoting herself to nurse Cloud as a wife would with her husband, and the Lifestream scene that literally is filled with Tifa's memories. We are supposed to understand the depth of his love for her there, just as much as the depth of her love for him was shown in Mideel. To me that is no comparison to what he ever felt for Aerith, and I think he realises it himself, as a mere week after they have sex under the Highwind - which wouldn't happen if Cloud didn't love wholly and fully Tifa, IMHO. It's funny to me because Peko thought like you at first, but the more she dived into FFVII's Compilation, the more she reads about it with all the side novels, and then with ToTP, the more this stance became unbelievable to her, until she told me "yeah, I believe you are right about this one, the story only makes sense if this is the case".

That said, I think Crisis Core is truly what changed SE's stance regarding the LT. We have to realise that before it was released, Aerith did not have a true love story. Her love story with Cloud is tainted by the fact that he was never himself while she knew him and that his feelings are an illusion. But there with CC, Nojima gave her a true love story, and gave people who truly loved her a ship where she could be 100% happy, that had a huge impact on her. AC is written in bizarre and distorted ways because they didn't want to give away Cloud's feelings too much to not piss off cleriths' fans. ACC corrects this because at this time, zerith is a true thing they can rely on for Aerith. I think it was extremely clear. And with zerith, cloti could truly take off.

Remake is written with this history in mind; it is written with the fact that zerith is a true pair that people know and ship, that cloti is the end pair, that Aerith still falls for Cloud even though she doesn't *want* to because Cloud's feelings are an illusion. It's written in a better way because they don't have to make contorsions about their characters. That's why characterisation in Remake is so good; because they have taken a stance, compared to AC. That's what I mean when I say that the devs are out to kill the LT. They weren't aware that they were about to release the deadliest LT in '97, to them it didn't exist. To Nomura, he doesn't care about it, especially in 2005, I think he wasn't aware of how bad the LTD was turning, to him it was non-sense if people can't understand his story, well too bad, but at the same time he has that Japanese mindset that doesn't want to not please people.

But Nojima realised how it became, how the two girls kept getting flak for things the devs never imagined they would. And as the writer, it is very clear that he doesn't like it, his novels and CC prove that he wants to protect both of them. He will give context for people to understand them better. Aerith herself is the biggest reason we got zerith the way we did; because I am 100% sure he wanted a true love story for her, one that would make her grow and change (which is why it begins when they are so young). Because I mean, we could have found out that Zack was going out with several girls at once, for example, that he was a flirt. But we did not - which is also partially because Zack became his favourite character, that's the other reason why we got zerith this way. And I also said it, but he is a *true* cloti shipper. Which amuses me to no end; he does like Cloti stuff on twitter and all his figurines have Cloud and Tifa standing next to each other - this man has an agenda and he's out to kill the LT. And he's the writer, too.

 

[frosty]

While @Eerie's take is incredibly charming...that Nojima's affection for Tifa and Aerith and wanting protect and clear the flak between his beloved girls was his driving motivator for CC...Nojima also wrote the audio drama released with the FFX remaster. He essentially broke Yuna and Tidus up, created a new love interest for Yuna and every TiYuna stan hated his guts for it and how he wrote the characters. I figure he really doesn't care all that much about fans spatting because it was a company direction to lead into a potential X-3, and clearly, he still has his job despite the hate. So you're right that he doesn't want to please people

But what I read is right, and taking a pragmatic view about it, Crisis Core happened because the whole compilation was being conceived circa 2002 - 2004. SE was toying with the idea of a FPS, with either Yuna, Barret, Vincent or Irvine. Kitase settled on Vincent, to ride on the work being done with AC and that became DoC.

Hajime Tabata was commissioned to work on an FF title for the PSP, and he sought Kitase's and Nomura's advise. They settled on Zack, because there was already back story for Zack for many years, and they decided early on they wanted a once-off title with a character that had a "predetermined end". Then they started working on how he and Aerith should interact, how human Sephiroth should be depicted, how the Nibelhiem incident should be after backlash from Last Order, and how they can re-use Gackt's IP since he was already working for Dirge lol.

As much as I'd also like to believe that they wrote Zerith because Nojima cared so much for Aerith enough to give her a love story, it seemed more borne out of utility than anything else. But kudos to SE for making characters so loveable that people credit Nojima in this way.

The funniest thing about the compilation to me, and that work's in Cloti's favor is actually "The Kids are Alright". Cloud literally appears 6 years after the end of 2005's AC, out of NO WHERE, in a book with no marketing and that isn't even about him, says "WE'RE A FAMILY" and leaves lololol.

 

[Makoeyes987]

He essentially broke Yuna and Tidus up, created a new love interest for Yuna and every TiYuna stan hated his guts for it and how he wrote the characters.

You do realize this is almost no different than the crisis he put Cloud and Tifa in, leading into Advent Children, right?

If (and it seems more like a when at this point) they revisit FFX with a sequel to X-2, I'm sure he'd write them having a moment that brings them together again and maybe creates a dynamic more powerful and emotional than before. Like, I don't think he cares about just pleasing fans but I don't think he has an oppositional role either. And he definitely does care about his characters. It's self evident, going by his own words and actions.

 

[Eerie]

Nojima clearly stated that he created some scenes between Aerith and Zack because he wanted to protect Aerith though, so I feel that it's very noticeable when he does the same thing in both Remake and Trace of Two Pasts. Nojima also writes some things the way he does because he has his own views about the story (incidently, it led him to get Cloud to hug Tifa). He has some free way. I read that he actually wrote the story for CC way before it was decided and that he was the one to really push for Zack's story (don't quote me on that, I think I read it here or elsewhere). So IMHO his views of zerith, Aerith and Zack really did colour the game the way it did. We also have to remember that CC is not a love story, this is the story to make us know Zack, who he truly was, and what happened. We always look at the love story as if it was the most important thing, but in FFVII, OG and Remake, in the whole Compilation, love stories happen because they are a byproduct of the story as it must go.

I like to look at them because I like to look at the psychology of the characters and we have to understand that this is part of themselves, but it's not the only part - though a lot act as if it was the case. I do the same with Agatha Christie's novels, because it's really fun there to do that - she's really good at it. Yet it's only a byproduct of the stories. Just like in FFVII. I am aware of this. It's still an integral part of the characters. But we have to understand that the devs mostly care about the story and in what way it's going. Nojima inserts things that he deems necessary for his protagonists, for us to enjoy them, but also for them to make sense in the story itself, to explain the story better - that's literally his job.

 

[Phantasia]

Everything you guys have mentioned about Zack and Aerith, and the fact that Remake keeps bringing in Zack where the OG didn't (his last stand way before the flashback, Intermission)... Baffles me how people just don't take the hint.

 

[Thenir]

I don't think Nojima is a shipper of has a particoular favoritism for any character. The developers just need to write appealing stories, based on a solid underlying logic. And the more realistic the media, the more realistic need to be the interactions between characters and their motivations.

We shouldn't forget that the links between the characters changed a lot since the first drafts of the story. The female protagonist and the villain had to be siblings, and originally they had to be (as regards the designs of course) Tifa and Vincent. When they decided to kill the girl, they splitted the female role and the siblings became Sephiroth and Aerith. Then they changed the bond from relatives to first love and I think this is the reason why OG Aerith is very cold toward "her first love", who indeed had to turn out to be the villain. Zack was a very last addition. They reused a discarded design for Cloud and essentially splitted the main character in two too. Hell, Nomura didn't even have the time to color Zack's picture! In fact they didn't come up with a good pretext to make Gongaga a mandatory location (with the girls as party memebers) and the scenes of Zack's death AND the creation of Soldier Cloud weren't included until the international release of the game. I'm not that surprised that CC somehow turned the table regarding Zack and Aerith's relationship.

The fact is that the main point of the story has never been who loves who but that - and many misinterpreted this from the beginning because of shipping preferences - Cloud has overlapped himself on Zack's role and that Aerith follows Cloud because of his resemblances with her ex. Aerith's asking Cloud to be her bodyguard parallels and overlapses on the promise with Tifa. Everything has always revolved around Cloud's alter ego.

Probably I'm the only person on the surface of earth to believe that the affection points were never meant to establish Cloud's feeling, both in the dates and even in the Highwind sequence lol.

Each time SE developed a new piece of the compilation always made sure to strengthen Zack's presence between Cloud and Aerith, make Zack and Aerith behave in a similar way toward Cloud as if they played the same supporting role toward him (eg. the high five), and put Cloud and Tifa together everywehere, because Tifa is at the centre of Cloud's emotional sphere. Once these characters are deprived of their roles Cloud's character loses his footing and the story stops making sense.

 

[Eerie]

I don't think Nojima is a shipper of has a particoular favoritism for any character.

I would say this about every other dev, but Nojima specifically posts pictures of his figurines and Cloud and Tifa are always next to each other, he likes random CloTi stuff (a fanart with cloti and HIM saying he's the cloti god LOL and cosplay) on Twitter, brings the both of them unprompted on various interviews - even when the question is about Cloud and Aerith - and makes sure that in the end, Cloud hugs Tifa in her resolution scene because "they are young, they would do it". If anything, he certainly does have a bias towards them. To me, he does sound like a shipper. Except, he's the main writer of the story.

I do agree with the rest of your post though.

Probably I'm the only person on the surface of earth to believe that the affection points were never meant to establish Cloud's feeling, both in the dates and even in the Highwind sequence lol.

You're not the only one; everyone here points out that it's the girls' affection that goes up or down, and how comfortable they are with sharing moments with Cloud based on those points. It's not about Cloud's affection, it's the girls' affection that change there.

 

[Shademp]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1428470341702242313

...McDonalds? WHAT DID I MISS

 

[ph14basicbitch]

A story in 3 parts.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1426207153778565121

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1426521148213301248

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1426572872235896844

 

[KindOfBlue]

I think you should tell shippers to prove Cloud even knows how to find a vagina first.

Hey now, something must’ve happened under the Highwind lol

Spoiler

like…h-holding hands? ???

Cloud literally appears 6 years after the end of 2005's AC, out of NO WHERE, in a book with no marketing and that isn't even about him, says "WE'RE A FAMILY" and leaves lololol.

…I’m having too much fun with photoshop.

 

[ph14basicbitch]

If Cloud found anything under the Highwind, it's because Tifa told him where it was.

Then again, "hand holding" sounds about right considering the key item name he gives to Tifa's panties if you go through her drawer in his Nibelheim flashback.

 

[Thenir]

You're not the only one; everyone here points out that it's the girls' affection that goes up or down, and how comfortable they are with sharing moments with Cloud based on those points. It's not about Cloud's affection, it's the girls' affection that change there.

I see this a little differently.
Despite the undeniable romantic tone, I think the purpose of the two main dates is to establish important plot points, especially Aerith's one that's the only scene that directly points out the similarities between Cloud and Zack and the fact that he may be hiding something about his identity. I believe this is the reason why she starts with the highest amount of points. As regards Tifa I think that her attempt to talk to Cloud is linked to her version of Nibelheim incident, more than a love confession, which is something that she already tried and failed to do before.

The aim of the Highwind scene, imo, is to close Cloud's character arc. He retraces the three points of the Lifestream sequence and renews each one of them:
The promise -> After all, I promised. That if anything were to ever happen to you, I would come to help.
Finding the truth together -> Someday we'll find the answer. Right, Tifa? That's what I learned from you when I was in the Lifestream.
Tenders feelings no one can ever know etc etc -> Hey Tifa...... I...... There are a lot of things I wanted to talk to you about. But now that we're together like this, I don't know what I really wanted to say... I guess nothing's changed at all... Kind of makes you want to laugh...
After that whether they just hold their hands or summon Chokobo chicks is their own business!

The alternative scene is really apathetic it...doesn't add anything to the story, it doesn't say anything about Aerith and it doesn't fulfill Cloud's character arc in any alternative way. I think it's also worth mentioning the fact that the musical theme is not Tifa's theme, Aerith's theme or any romantic song, but "On that day 5 years ago".
Sure the low affection scene is canon as well but it's definitely the weakest one under any perspective.
Cloud's subconscious encourages Tifa to reveal her feelings to real Cloud (Tell him what you told me, later. He'll probably be so happy) and the dialogue on the Highwind in Case of Tifa links up with the high affection scene. It makes reflect about what the player has to do in order to fail to achieve the 50 APs, and how according to the Remake Tifa already has 50 points.

Ah there's also an interesting discarded scenario about the ending cutscene (I have no idea if anybody ever mentioned it in this forum, I'm rather new here!). Instead of the "meet her there" line the original dialogue had to be:

C: We're going home, Tifa...​

T: Huh?​

C: We have something we need to do when we get back. We haven't...seen the other side of the mountain.​

T: Yeah...let's go home.​

(Ultimania Archive vol. 2 pag. 108).
It made me realize that indeed in that scene Tifa falls from the cliff like during Mt. Nibel incident but Cloud saves her, and meanwhile plays Tifa's theme. It also makes sense that in ToTP the death of Cloud's father is related to "the other side of the mountain" as well. I don't really get why they had to change it but this dialogue really completely closed Cloud's arc. Enough to debunk the "Aerith is Cloud's Promised Land" stuff anyway!

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1428470341702242313
...McDonalds? WHAT DID I MISS

Why every time I click on a twitter link I have to see a DOKI DOKI ??

 

[frosty]

You do realize this is almost no different than the crisis he put Cloud and Tifa in, leading into Advent Children, right?

If (and it seems more like a when at this point) they revisit FFX with a sequel to X-2, I'm sure he'd write them having a moment that brings them together again and maybe creates a dynamic more powerful and emotional than before. Like, I don't think he cares about just pleasing fans but I don't think he has an oppositional role either. And he definitely does care about his characters. It's self evident, going by his own words and actions.

No, I get that. I get the whole TiYuna business with that audio novel thing was to just to create another crisis for them to work it out reinforce their love for another in an even more teary manner than X. And I get that so many people will be SO disappointed in the audio book, they'd buy X-3 just to have Tidus and Yuna back together.

What I am saying is that, as a writer, he was pigeon holed into the format that SE gave him at that time (audio novel) and probably instructions to make it a teaser for X-3, and had to make the best of it. He still has to wait for X-3 to be green lighted, funded, before he can go back and tackle their resolution. There's no amount of tweeting angry things at him, bad reviews on Amazon, and hatefulness in the forums that can change that, and with 20+ years in the industry, he's probably well trained to just tune out the noise.

A lot of people who "ship", and come from a writer's POV assume that Nojima is the all powerful, who can at whim decide what he wants with the characters he conceived from scratch and when to release this info - A person who lovingly thinks about their character's feelings, gets personally hurt when people attack their characters, and will write works to protect their character from harm. I'm just saying, that for a person on his level with many works probably simultaneously running, it might not be the case.

I don't think Nojima is a shipper of has a particoular favoritism for any character. The developers just need to write appealing stories, based on a solid underlying logic. And the more realistic the media, the more realistic need to be the interactions between characters and their motivations.

Precisely, but though he might not have favoritism, he probably would have his own author's intent that he wants to stick to.

Which leads to:

Everything you guys have mentioned about Zack and Aerith, and the fact that Remake keeps bringing in Zack where the OG didn't (his last stand way before the flashback, Intermission)... Baffles me how people just don't take the hint.

While I think the Zerith (romantic relationship) was borne out of necessity (Write a story about Zack and the characters around him for a PSP game because it is SE commercial decision), I think the authors intent from that point onward was to stick to this route.

Which then leads to consistency - if an author continues to stick to something (Zack/Aerith consistently appearing after Crisis Core), then it truly is what he wants in terms of the story. Also, the same treatment they've given to Cloud/Tifa...so far.

 

[Eerie]

Despite the undeniable romantic tone, I think the purpose of the two main dates is to establish important plot points, especially Aerith's one that's the only scene that directly points out the similarities between Cloud and Zack and the fact that he may be hiding something about his identity. I believe this is the reason why she starts with the highest amount of points. As regards Tifa I think that her attempt to talk to Cloud is linked to her version of Nibelheim incident, more than a love confession, which is something that she already tried and failed to do before.

I disagree with this. Because, I know a lot of people forget about it, but if you go the Tifa route, Tifa expresses herself doubts about Cloud's identity at Cosmo Canyon. So if you skip Aerith's date, you still have this plot point revealed by Tifa. To me, both dates are supposed to be what Aerith and Tifa want to convey to Cloud, just like their resolutions in Remake are. Except Aerith's also points at this plot point because she doesn't bring it up later on, and Tifa can't since you haven't chosen her. So Tifa's date, to me, is romantic - clotis have also been pointing that she's the one who's truly interrupted by the fireworks, as the music's name of the date.

But see, I still believe that it's Aerith's date the canon choice because otherwise, she never gets to convey her feelings to Cloud, unlike Tifa. I don't see these dates in terms of the story development, though Aerith's bring it, but what does the story says, what do the characters say and want to express, and if they can express it elsewhere. So to me, it's not really about Cloud's identity, because if you don't get it with Aerith, you get it with Tifa later on. This is about Aerith wanting to meet the real Cloud, and Tifa wanting to convey her feelings to him.

Sure the low affection scene is canon as well

It's definitely not, it's barely mentioned in the Ultimania and it's the high affection scene that gets the spotlight about everywhere. And indeed, this is because if you miss it, then Tifa cannot convey her feelings to Cloud. This scene is not only tying Cloud's arc, but also Tifa's, because, as I have stated previously, both of their arcs are entwined, which many people don't want to see.

The ending has been wildly misunderstood, though I think we can now safely say that it's about realising that once they'll die (and they thought they were going to die), they can meet their beloved ones there: so not only Aerith, who is dear to both, but also their friends and parents. It's also yet another promise to meet up again when they'll die - so to meet up on the other side. Which brings up their theme of reuniting.

 

[Thenir]

I think we'll have to disagree on these point. For me Tifa trying to confess her feelings at Gold Saucer is too premature, she kept having doubts about Cloud's attitude and his version of the past events until Sephiroth convinced him to be not real Cloud. The lifestream sequence determines a growth in both characters and only after that internal journey Tifa meets again the real Cloud she really loved.

 

[Eerie]

Tifa needs to believe in Cloud for him to continue the masquerade up until Northern Crater. Especially moreso if you chose to favour her. I do think it's her feelings that she's trying to convey there, and she's failing. To me, her GS date is the moment where we begin to see her romantic interest in Cloud forming more than a few jealous lines in Midgar. It's more consistent, and the fact that she does speak up her hesitations re: his identity troubles without much hesitation (even if she doesn't voice her full doubts at that point, she still voices them without the whole hesitation she does at the GS which leads to nowhere, saying even that Aerith would manage to, and we know Aerith voices her interest in Cloud in her date with him). Cloti is gradual, we don't go from 'nowhere' to 'doubt Cloud enough in Northern Crater to make him fall' to 'nursing him and chosing him over everything else in Mideel' without something in between that brings the romantic love she feels for him. And that's her GS date.

 

[KindOfBlue]

A story in 3 parts.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1426207153778565121

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1426521148213301248

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1426572872235896844

Ffs people need to stop taking social media posts so seriously lol