SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[eleamaya]

I don't know if we've arrived at the same conclusion.

It's same, I just never breakdown Soldier!Cloud and Real!Cloud when it comes to Aerith's feelings. I dont really like discuss that. To me, Aerith loves both men, in the same case as Tomoe, period. Actually, I wish Nojima addressed her line in COLW like how Tomoe says "the second man I love" not plain "koibito/more than a friend, for she had loved" because this fuel the debate as if Aerith didn't love Zack anymore, that Cloud is her ONLY love.

I also like the moment right before Tomoe goes out of the hut protecting Kenshin, she feels like she saw Akira, "I can't protect this man so this time, I'll protect him." My HC is Aerith feels the same when she's about to leave the party in Gongaga, she couldn't save Zack (who knows her prayer in CC ending contains great gospel within the rain that pouring down in Zack's last moment), so this time, she would protect Cloud from Sephiroth.

And this is me wonder because it's never addressed in the Compilation, but just as Kenshin finding out the truth in Tomoe's diary about him killing her fiancee and why she follows him that it deepen his guilty to both of them (thus, his X-scar never fade till him completely move on with Kaoru in ending), I want Cloud to react the same after he regain his true self and remember Zack; he must remember how Aerith searched Zack and may think Aerith really think Zack had dumped her to new girlfriend in Gongaga because he can't tell her the truth that he was there in Zack's final moment (and maybe he ever heard Zack's screaming "Why do you mean final! Aerith, wait for me" in Banora as the event is just few days before the ambush) and give her closure... so seeing they're together in AC ending would also reassure him.

but as a Kenkao fan

I'm not Kenkao fan lmao. I'm rooted to Sano x Megumi but damn, they dont go anywhere. And yes, I love Ken x Tomoe.

I just couldn't see her loving him more than Zack

When did I say that? I would never support that idea. And didn't I say I view her feelings similarly to Tomoe? Even to the point that they want to protect the men? This is me trying to clear up things because Clerith shippers always spread propaganda of Matsuyama's writings that she loves Cloud much than Zack and I'm tired of that

Zerith

Zerith is the het ship between Zack Fair and Aerith Gainsborough from the Final Fantasy fandom. Both characters debuted in Final Fantasy VII. In the game, Aerith was a major character and a party member. Zack was a minor character and hidden within the game. His story has since been expanded on...

shipping.fandom.com

Yep, I edit that Wiki page, including Cloti and Clerith page lol. You can check it on the history.

but as a ShinRan fan (Detective Conan) I get the pain. Mine hasn't even reunited yet in the truest sense since 1994.

I've been reading Detective Conan since 1998 (because that's when the manga is officially published in my country) till today. Main pairing tend to be not my OTP lol. So I'm fangirling more with Takagi x Miwako and Makoto x Sonoko, even Ran's parents. I know Childhood friends is JP trope I'm never against, but it's also not my favorite (Kogoro x Eri is childhood friends but the story is not about them but their marriage relationship, right?). I dont like Heiji x Kazuha, and it's because they're so stupid with their feelings (man I hate slow-burn and this is why Tifa is not my preference in OG despite my support of Cloti endgame status) and I dont have time to their drama with Momiji. Anyway, ShinRan is far better, Shinichi is straight-forward and I've already viewed them going to Tropical Land as a date since first volume, there goes the fancy dinner in fine dine restaurant and confession in London lol. Shinichi is a man! That's why their classmates say Shinichi is Ran's husband like.... it's not even a secret and Ran doesn't seem bothered by that as she also admits it to Sonoko. It's just the cruel circumstance that prevent him (as Conan) be honest with Ran---I also love the angst how she waits for him and how he wants to "return" to her as Shinchi.

What is that thing with the DokiDoki? I see it everywhere? all I know it's about cloud's heart skipping a beat? The cleriths I've seen really hold onto that but I couldn't get a good source anywhere, was it from the game?

Isn't from the game itself? The power of strength description? Doki doki is in JP version and "heart skip a beat" is in NA version

 

[Biscuit]

her line in COLW like how Tomoe says "the second man I love" not plain "koibito/more than a friend, for she had loved" because this fuel the debate as if Aerith didn't love Zack anymore, that Cloud is her ONLY love.

I won't elaborate but at that point I didn't really react to the characters/story. I was just purely pissed off at the writer.

When did I say that? I would never support that idea.

???? you never did said that. I just wanted to say that, that's all? I'm confused. I was 100% speaking out of wanting to share only and tried to elaborate why, uh maybe it came off the wrong way. Apologies, this happens to me a lot. Being really new to all this (9 months superrr on/off), I don't really know much about the depths cleriths go and I see it only in passing (the severe ones are loud though). At best they really just remind me of Ranka x Alto fans (Macross Frontier) so I just move on with my day. otp-oasis-heavenxearth is probably the only clerith whose analysis I've ever read off of too.

Isn't from the game itself?

lol so I did forget about it. Only until very recently I've started engaging with the fandom, I see it brought up sometimes in reddit/youtube/Game FAQs and some in this forum too. I asked a cloti once on tumblr and they said it's related to an interview and that some cleriths hold onto it like proof. Anyway every time I ask/see about it, the answer keeps on changing so I wanted to know the whole context but maybe it's nothing really serious... I personally thought it was something that evolved along the years at least in my pov as an outsider.

I hate how much Thinking of you (Katy Perry) and This I promise you (NSYNC) is 1:1 to ZA and CT. wth

I'd have to add Say So (Doja cat) to CT (promise that's the last one ahaha). It didn't enter my mind before, but how can I forget. That's basically everything cloud's been doing to tifa. This boy is too darn frustrating smh. But I guess the JP ver suits her better.

 

[eleamaya]

they said it's related to an interview

Oooh, maybe it's in FF7R Material Ultimania Plus. Toriyama makes comments on many things of the scenario in that book. Sorry, I forget too

I'd have to add Say So (Doja cat) to CT (promise that's the last one ahaha). It didn't enter my mind before, but how can I forget. That's basically everything cloud's been doing to tifa. This boy is too darn frustrating smh.

Never hear that song. I usually comes to rock or emo song when it's about Cloud. So I'm glad Nomura also thinks the same haha.

 

[Biscuit]

Oooh, maybe it's in FF7R Material Ultimania Plus. Toriyama makes comments on many things of the scenario in that book. Sorry, I forget too

haha that's quite alright, thank you, I'll look at that material. I was just super curious why cleriths hold onto it so much because from my experience with seeing "doki doki" (in any genre/demographic) it's usually almost never (if ever actually) used in a serious or vital context in Japanese media. So when I first heard that cloud's heart skip a beat at aerith, my blind assumption was cloud just being an inexperienced harem protagonist. hmm somewhat like Rito ( To Love Ru). As I've heard that it's quite an inside joke that cloud's a known virgin to Japanese audiences (though the boy does try to clumsily flirt w/ tifa whenever he can, priorities haha).

when it's about Cloud

oh no no haha, I meant in Tifa's pov about cloud's conflict pattern (Rainych's jp cover of Say so fits her more innocent vibe though, plus the song seems rather fitting for Alone at last's context). But I agree, those genres do fit cloud. I guess Within/ Touch (Daft Punk) fits cloud for me, while Into the light (Yuki kajiura) fits CA/ZA for me, however you want to look at it.

​

 

[ph14basicbitch]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1664254880364793856

Nojima tweeted about finding out that ship/shipping = like Japanese coupling (CP).
I'm sure this tweet will have completely sane replies by FF7 fans if I check back in 12 hours.

 

[Biscuit]

Going by the new trailer uh I used to think Zack was the main subject for Hollow but now I think It's actually closer to Tifa. Maybe both of them lol. But lines such as him 1) becoming whole, 2) thinking if it was all a dream, being foolish and blind etc (maybe questioning her existence due to his cluelessness), 3) the "never let you go" is like the same thing andrea tells him about tifa etc , 4) the "dark mysteries lurking beneath those smiles" is like tifa's apprehension about the truth, 5) "This void to fill" in relation to his selfishness/ emptiness is what makes up his alter (the fill to cope with the pain), 6) the "hidden inside your tears" considering tifa is the only one who cried in front of him without explaining much why, and last but not least

"But I I know
That you're long gone
But I I will
Go on howling, and hollow"

Considering the new trailer and probably obvious to some people already maybe..., true cloud might really be considering that tifa is actually really REALLY dead and that hollow is true cloud's internal monologue inside soldier cloud. Part 1 felt like a second chance for him, not questioning much if his memories are real of her dying or tifa is fake because he was just too happy to see her again (I can see why Sephiroth is letting him remember stuff more easily unlike before, he's betting on tifa's imperfect recollection to break their reality). During alone at last, when tifa told him "that we would never meet again" he was completely forlorn looking down because the last thing he saw of her was her dying. There's a high chance he really bit into Sephiroth's scheme for rebirth and the cloud who says "reunion" in the trailer (other timeline cloud) is the consequence if the current cloud really looses his connection to tifa. Tbh, I think resolution aerith is helping him out for him to not get stuck in that illusion because his life will genuinely be in detriment (that's her *guidance but lol she could have been more specific but maybe she doesn't know yet what Sephiroth's plans are if that was OG aerith).

I suppose I'm actually still underestimating Tifa's importance and I thought I didn't lol smh. If I remember correctly? . .. The devs laughed weirdly saying "yeah zack and cloud are close it could be about that" along those lines? when someone asked if hollow was about zack. Uh not sure but if this was really about tifa and they thought it was about zack, my mind would go directly to thinking that the one who asked is some kind of zack x cloud fan and I would also laugh. But lol I'm not even sure if that incident was legit lol. but I still think zack is still part of that song, he's the last straw afterall afterall those tragedy. the song was played in a chapter that reminisce about him and the last part of part 1 where he does appear. but logic is telling me tifa is closer to it now considering how they're making her "death" and her being a "lie/imposter", out to be what breaks true cloud completely making Sephiroth's plan succeed. And lol I read that players don't even need to play part 1 to get rebirth??? But why? If I'm just going by my weird take with the resolutions, i suppose part 1 was mostly to establish the importance of their connection and to refresh or add major points/world building tbh it's a grand exposition lol but the main story is just about to begin...so you know, you wouldn't be confused why she's taking so much spotlight on his internal conflict (if you failed to get that in OG). But uh overall, it's a shame I didn't get to see much of zack in the new trailer but I guess the first one actually addresses him more but they can't just say too much because unlike with tifa's his is completely new content.

Not sure if this should count on this thread though but I suppose why not considering Cleriths think this is about CA when that's like the least further from the truth (especially now) as she isn't dead yet and this time devs are adding the new concept where true cloud really thinks tifa is dead unlike in OG. Considering the new trailer, Hollow might exist as a blueprint for the main conflict in rebirth, doesn't have to be shippy... But uh it's just the narrative being a narrative lol.

Uh yeah I suppose that's about it just wanted to share my thoughts because I really thought it was completely only about zack lol and there wasn't much who thought it was about tifa. I could have expanded the lyrics more in connection to tifa but I think it will only be redundant and annoyingly long but overall it's like a mix of sadness and intense regret and him really bitting onto the lie Sephiroth fed him.....and I love it because it will only make the pay off much much better later on. I suppose 8 more months to go, I'm just glad I came to this IP late so I didn't have to wait too long lol.

 

[KindOfBlue]

Apparently this clip caused a bit of a stir:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1716931148214050850

I guess we can expect more interesting takes from streamers and influencers on this particular topic as we get closer to Rebirth’s release

 

[LNK]

Oh jeez lol

 

[null]

Hey as long as they're civil and not, say, harassing Nojima over Clessie on Twitter - again - seriously, like yesterday - they can recycle ancient talking points all day long.

 

[Stiggie]

Apparently this clip caused a bit of a stir:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1716931148214050850

I guess we can expect more interesting takes from streamers and influencers on this particular topic as we get closer to Rebirth’s release

Its honestly depressing that this constitutes as convincing arguments to some people, I mean, it takes about 2 seconds of research, or hell, thought, to understand why this is a complete misrepresentation of what is happening in FFVII, and especially in AC.

 

[LNK]

Forreal. Even playing through the Wall Market section that was talked about in the video should not be taken at face value. Not even close

 

[frosty]

Wow looks like SE is gonna go ham with the LTD. Twitter is going to be insufferable for years D:

 

[ForceStealer]

 

[KindOfBlue]

 

[null]

Wow looks like SE is gonna go ham with the LTD. Twitter is going to be insufferable for years D:

Oh god… the chance of Elon weighing in this time around is not nearly small enough for comfort.

 

[Theozilla]

Oh god… the chance of Elon weighing in this time around is not nearly small enough for comfort.

No, don’t you put that evil out here in the world even as an idea!

 

[KindOfBlue]

Twitter was already a cesspool before Elon with all this LTD garbage, now we can get both Elon AND the LTD garbage! Yay! Friggin’ kill me, already…

If only SE would just put the final nail in the coffin on this subject. No room for debate, no ambiguity, no “it’s up to the player” nonsense.

 

[Theozilla]

Twitter was already a cesspool before Elon with all this LTD garbage, now we can get both Elon AND the LTD garbage! Yay! Friggin’ kill me, already…

If only SE would just put the final nail in the coffin on this subject. No room for debate, no ambiguity, no “it’s up to the player” nonsense.

I mean SE basically already has, they just also like to advertise and play up the romantic drama of the LT, which is pretty common with many popular romance/romance having stories with LTs in them (like plenty of shōnen and shōjo do that all the time), combine that with people often being obsessed with the idea of a one true "singular love", that is bound to perpetuate drama. This person ruminates on that aspect well.


TresDias/The Twilight Mexican, touched upon this before in his old LTD analysis dissertation a decade ago, but I think he hit the nail on the head that what's kept the FFVII Love Triangle drama going for so long (besides Cloud being a fandom bicycle) isn't due to any narrative and/or textual ambiguity (which there really isn't much), but more is that because Aerith died, and thus unlike other stories with love triangles and romance where a protagonist eventually actively chooses between two (or more) romantic options, circumstances of plot external to the romance result in a story where that explcit resolution of choice is taken away. Thus people are always able to speculate and argue on the "what if..." in regards to the subject of FFVII's romance and characters.

 

[Enthralll]

Updated list of BlankBeat's Victims... except it's just all the staff and lifestream users.

I know you've had a whole weekend to erect your cope but the spiraling social media meltdowns among cloti and zerith, even up to and including harassing Nojima over it, have said enough.

This forum spent decades denying Clerith with the most desperate technicalities but now Square releases a trailer full of explicitly chosen moments to frame their new theme song. Then put those moments in the background of its page about the song. And the singer of the song mentions Cloud and Aerith by name as those she had to learn about to prepare for the song. They spent money and marketing capital on this. Against which your words are meaningless. After all, who are you anyway? It's a clear case of actions (and effort) speaking louder than words (and sophistry).

What even are the coping mechanisms this time? That you can still hold out hope these were all clumsy misstatements? That none of them force you in particular to accept what they're saying? I mean, I'm sorry, but your positions aren't above the same scrutiny-- if we can't take all of what we just saw seriously, why should we take you seriously?

 

[LNK]

What is going on here? You ok?

 

[Makoeyes987]

Updated list of BlankBeat's Victims... except it's just all the staff and lifestream users.

I know you've had a whole weekend to erect your cope but the spiraling social media meltdowns among cloti and zerith, even up to and including harassing Nojima over it, have said enough.

This forum spent decades denying Clerith with the most desperate technicalities but now Square releases a trailer full of explicitly chosen moments to frame their new theme song. Then put those moments in the background of its page about the song. And the singer of the song mentions Cloud and Aerith by name as those she had to learn about to prepare for the song. They spent money and marketing capital on this. Against which your words are meaningless. After all, who are you anyway? It's a clear case of actions (and effort) speaking louder than words (and sophistry).

What even are the coping mechanisms this time? That you can still hold out hope these were all clumsy misstatements? That none of them force you in particular to accept what they're saying? I mean, I'm sorry, but your positions aren't above the same scrutiny-- if we can't take all of what we just saw seriously, why should we take you seriously?

lol, lmao even

 

[Theozilla]

In my 10+ years on the forum, I don’t think any of the site’s staff has ever “denied Clerith”, I can’t recall any of the staff arguing against the notion that by the time of her death Aerith was romantically in love with Cloud. The only debate I usually saw was whether the degree of romantic feelings Cloud had developed for Aerith could/should be considered/categorized as being “in love” by the time of her death. Arguing that the canonical endgame was/is Cloti, doesn’t require denying any of that aforementioned stuff, because as stated ad infinitum: romance and love can be complicated and even contradictory, characters (and individuals in real life) can hold romantic feelings for more than one person at the same time.

 

[frosty]

Idk if the newbies know that here, TLS is more of like anthropologists observing and commenting on shippers than actually debating the LtD anymore cos we're old like that.

If they've thrown an almost kiss for Aerith and Cloud as fan service when back in the day, when all the blocky characters did was laugh together, maybe had a kiss on the hand and a very tame date, I wonder how they'll execute a implied sex scene

 

[Odysseus]

Watching FFVII shippers in action is kind of like going to the zoo for me honestly

 

[KindOfBlue]

I mean SE basically already has, they just also like to advertise and play up the romantic drama of the LT, which is pretty common with many popular romance/romance having stories with LTs in them (like plenty of shōnen and shōjo do that all the time), combine that with people often being obsessed with the idea of a one true "singular love", that is bound to perpetuate drama. This person ruminates on that aspect well.

View attachment 14091
TresDias/The Twilight Mexican, touched upon this before in his old LTD analysis dissertation a decade ago, but I think he hit the nail on the head that what's kept the FFVII Love Triangle drama going for so long (besides Cloud being a fandom bicycle) isn't due to any narrative and/or textual ambiguity (which there really isn't much), but more is that because Aerith died, and thus unlike other stories with love triangles and romance where a protagonist eventually actively chooses between two (or more) romantic options, circumstances of plot external to the romance result in a story where that explcit resolution of choice is taken away. Thus people are always able to speculate and argue on the "what if..." in regards to the subject of FFVII's romance and characters.

And thus we get commentary like this:

Updated list of BlankBeat's Victims... except it's just all the staff and lifestream users.

I know you've had a whole weekend to erect your cope but the spiraling social media meltdowns among cloti and zerith, even up to and including harassing Nojima over it, have said enough.

This forum spent decades denying Clerith with the most desperate technicalities but now Square releases a trailer full of explicitly chosen moments to frame their new theme song. Then put those moments in the background of its page about the song. And the singer of the song mentions Cloud and Aerith by name as those she had to learn about to prepare for the song. They spent money and marketing capital on this. Against which your words are meaningless. After all, who are you anyway? It's a clear case of actions (and effort) speaking louder than words (and sophistry).

What even are the coping mechanisms this time? That you can still hold out hope these were all clumsy misstatements? That none of them force you in particular to accept what they're saying? I mean, I'm sorry, but your positions aren't above the same scrutiny-- if we can't take all of what we just saw seriously, why should we take you seriously?

For some people, any attention given to one ship threatens the other. Never mind what occurs in-game, what’s been stated in ultimanias, what’s been stated by devs etc.

No, the fact that Cloud and Tifa have longstanding mutual feelings that they confirm to each other while in the Lifestream and subsequently begin living together as a family is swiftly nullified by…Cloud and Aerith’s lips almost touching and Aerith initiating physical contact with Cloud.

Both of which already happened between Cloud and Tifa in Remake and in non-optional scenes.

Normies and shippers will take any interaction between one ship as proof that it’s more valid than the other. Those of us who can actually read know how both relationships are meant to serve the story.

I know this level of media illiteracy can’t be helped, but all I’m saying is the LTD would be so much less drawn out if SE actually tried to leave as little room for doubt as possible.