SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

r_monk

r_monk

Pro Adventurer
AKA
RM
Nal said:
They are setting up cloud and tifa a lot, obviously for highwind and lifestream
since this is part 2 and not the full story they had to spend more time focusing on them
and its great
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This makes so much sense. I was SO surprised with the obvious set-up in Remake (I really thought it was going to favor Aerith, if anything), so I guess this is just the natural progression? Fuck, I'm so pumped.
 
kate-kane

kate-kane

Rookie Adventurer
It's wild that
Cloud reassuring Tifa with "not one bit" and initiating the kiss is being interpreted as some kind of rebound act from Cloud because Aerith seems to still have feelings for Zack. Shipping copium is wild.
 
Maidenofwar

Maidenofwar

They/Them
Nal, according to many Cloud treats Aerith like trash on all their dates, and the NPCs all treat Aerith like trash too, so why would I want to see that?
 
Ryushikaze

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
Andover said:
Cloud has memory issues and insecurity from a crappy childhood not the same thing. Aerith says in her date she is over Zack by saying she wants to be with Cloud and she is trying to find him. She never lies about being over him, that’s just you believing she does because you are ignoring what she’s said since the original game. As for Barret that’s personal opinion, haha but seriously please watch the full scene because clearly you have not.
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Aerith absolutely lies about being over him. Her entire arc with regards to Cloud is about trying to move on and then realizing she's chasing phantoms. Also something she admitted in the original game. I think when she died she MIGHT have been ready to move on, but not before then.

andover said:
Then question why Cloud had to ask on a date with Tifa about whether she talked to Aerith to which Tifa says “Not Yet” which is a complete lie.
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And? What are you trying to get at even if she lied here.

andover said:
So if you have been slightly mislead to believe the girl you like still likes her ex while you’re on a date with another girl how would you react? There’s also proof that Cloud is jealous before. In the Ultimania Plus, Toriyama points out that Cloud feeling “mixed feelings” about Aerith going on a date with someone else at Evergreen Park may enhance the depth of the scene. We also know Zack and Aerith did go on a date there in CC. I’m sure you can put two and two together that the foundation for this jealousy was present in the Remake, at least.
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But she DOES still like her ex. And Cloud's with the girl he likes when he's on the date with Tifa, but he still cares about the woman they both consider friends. And in fact he MIGHT be bringing up the subject of "Our friend with the missing boyfriend who she still feels for after 5 years" to segue into "Hey it's been five (seven) years and we haven't really talked about this but I still have feelings for you do you also have them for me please say yes"

KindOfBlue said:
Allow me to point out that:
TIFA asks CLOUD if SHE is getting ahead of herself, and HE replies “not one bit.”
Like, I really don’t understand what the argument is here.


Evidently, that’s exactly how some people interpret FF7
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Fuck, at one point I outlined a version of the plot of FF7 as a highschool drama to prove a point and it wasn't this shit.
 
Ruri

Ruri

Pro Adventurer
andover said:
Gongaga is likely the reason Cloud is jealous in the first place, by the way so I don’t know what you’ve heard or seen but it was probably out of context. Also not afraid of the Sleeping Forest date, but clearly some people are who ship Cloud with Tifa since they are attacking SENA for keeping the LTD going. That doesn’t sound at all bad to me.
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Honey, you can wrap Cloud mentioning Aerith on the date as much as you like. The end of the game is going to shatter your blanket of glass.
 
N

Nal

Pro Adventurer
r_monk said:
This makes so much sense. I was SO surprised with the obvious set-up in Remake (I really thought it was going to favor Aerith, if anything), so I guess this is just the natural progression? Fuck, I'm so pumped.
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Its not smooth sailing all the way obviously But you will Enjoy it
 
N

Nal

Pro Adventurer
r_monk said:
Why would I want smooth sailing! I want discomfort and conflict and the deep, deep connection that results from that. Ugh. Thank you for those hints. 4 days!!
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HOO BOY one word: Gongaga This will give you everything you want and also something that no one could have predicted
Also, the game starts with that angst you want so get ready; you will see it quickly
 
shady

shady

Pro Adventurer
andover said:
Gongaga is likely the reason Cloud is jealous in the first place, by the way so I don’t know what you’ve heard or seen but it was probably out of context. Also not afraid of the Sleeping Forest date, but clearly some people are who ship Cloud with Tifa since they are attacking SENA for keeping the LTD going. That doesn’t sound at all bad to me.
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Oh no, you don’t know about the full date do you? Oof. Listen i dont care so much about the shipping but your super over analyzing of the dates reads to everyone here as huge cope. You wanna talk about clips and words out of context, well you’re doing the same exact thing so…

Gongaga happens because of jealousy? this isnt some dating sim soap opera where the characters are villains who sleep around and cheat on each other and stuff and by the way there’s a lot that happens between C & T before Gongaga to even lead into it. Please look forward to the game as i look forward to more of your essays on why Cloud’s breathing patterns indicate why Aerith is his soul mate
 
L

loozzer

Pro Adventurer
I'm once again asking that we revisit the fact that square decided to release a novella from cloud's pov reconfirming that he wanted to join SOLDIER to become someone special for tifa a week before the game's release. like if you can't see the writing on the wall... then idk. please just use your brain (i mean this in the nicest way possible) and think about why they would remind everyone that cloud wants to be special for tifa if that's not relevant to rebirth?
 
r_monk

r_monk

Pro Adventurer
AKA
RM
kate-kane said:
It's wild that
Cloud reassuring Tifa with "not one bit" and initiating the kiss is being interpreted as some kind of rebound act from Cloud because Aerith seems to still have feelings for Zack. Shipping copium is wild.
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It's bumming me out tbh. Like I genuinely feel bad for Cleriths and definitely wasn't expecting Square to take such a strong stance, but this level of mental gymnastics is quickly wearing on my patience...
 
N

Nal

Pro Adventurer
Regardless of OG arguments, why would an author of the remake games create two books, one focused on Tifa and Aerith's past, that very explicitly tells you the kind of love Tifa had for cloud and even retcons a bit of OG with them being close as toddlers and then he starts to distance himself and then right before Rebirth put out a book that says Cloud wanted to be Special for Tifa?
 
N

Nal

Pro Adventurer
Nal said:
Regardless of OG arguments, why would an author of the remake games create two books, one focused on Tifa and Aerith's past, that very explicitly tells you the kind of love Tifa had for cloud and even retcons a bit of OG with them being close as toddlers and then he starts to distance himself and then right before Rebirth put out a book that says Cloud wanted to be Special for Tifa?
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Theres a lot more to this story than romance, obviously but Rebirth does have a heavy focus on Cloud and Tifas feelings much more than ever before.
 
A

andover

Rookie Adventurer
AKA
Flowers
SH
kate-kane said:
When Tifa says it's "more complicated than that" she means it's complicated to Aerith. You also conveniently ignore the fact that Aerith lies in her date too, as many have tried to tell you.

But to be honest, it seems you've already made up your mind about the dates. I think you're being willfully obtuse. The conclusions you've come to definitely reflect your need to.... well... cope. Good luck with the rest of the game.
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Let’s remember Aerith spoke about Zack FIRST on her date to Cloud and says it’s okay he isn’t like Zack she wants to be with Cloud to his face. My guess is you didn’t watch it. Also she doesn’t lie. The flashback plays, she says after, “I think so?” That implies from her tone that it happened but isn’t too sure why it matters this is proven by her saying “but not about anything important” which means that she did not consider the conversation about Zack to be touchy like Tifa makes it sound in her date. Even if Aerith DID lie, before Cloud even asks if she spoke to Tifa, let me repeat she talks about about Zack and how it’s okay Cloud isn’t him because she wants to be with Cloud now NOT Zack. You’re being willfully obtuse because you ship Cloud and Tifa and that’s okay. Fact is, Tifa did not have to blatantly lie the way she did. She says she was not able to talk to Aerith yet by her saying “not yet”, when we see the flashback just before she in fact DID talk to Aerith. Also Marlene says Aerith likes Cloud to Zack and he has to get Cloud better or he can’t save Aerith. So clearly whatever choices you make Aerith likes Cloud regardless and not Zack now. Why else have Marlene say that. Good luck with the rest of the game since you can play it for yourself instead of seeing out of context clips and opinionated discord shipping channels.
 
N

Nal

Pro Adventurer
andover said:
SH

Let’s remember Aerith spoke about Zack FIRST on her date to Cloud and says it’s okay he isn’t like Zack she wants to be with Cloud to his face. My guess is you didn’t watch it. Also she doesn’t lie. The flashback plays, she says after, “I think so?” That implies from her tone that it happened but isn’t too sure why it matters this is proven by her saying “but not about anything important” which means that she did not consider the conversation about Zack to be touchy like Tifa makes it sound in her date. Even if Aerith DID lie, before Cloud even asks if she spoke to Tifa, let me repeat she talks about about Zack and how it’s okay Cloud isn’t him because she wants to be with Cloud now NOT Zack. You’re being willfully obtuse because you ship Cloud and Tifa and that’s okay. Fact is, Tifa did not have to blatantly lie the way she did. She says she was not able to talk to Aerith yet by her saying “not yet”, when we see the flashback just before she in fact DID talk to Aerith. Also Marlene says Aerith likes Cloud to Zack and he has to get Cloud better or he can’t save Aerith. So clearly whatever choices you make Aerith likes Cloud regardless and not Zack now. Why else have Marlene say that. Good luck with the rest of the game since you can play it for yourself instead of seeing out of context clips and opinionated discord shipping channels.
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You will find out in the game that Aerith has a lot of very complicated emotions and isn't a reliable narrator with her feelings at all times. and the marlene argument is ridiculous; i dont even have to explain why you should know why
(Hint shes a kid and is not the main marlene)
 
r_monk

r_monk

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AKA
RM
Trawling through every little detail in a creative work in order to unearth "evidence" that supposedly further proves your existing bias, IMO, is one of the worst ways to experience any sort of fiction. This is what drives me up the fucking wall when it comes to shipping in any fandom. Just trust the narrative, trust the writers, and let them guide you through the story and the characters in them.

In any work of fiction, there's a contract between creator and reader—that trust needs to exist for the work to be expansive and experienced in full. It's so clear there's zero fucking trust for the creators in the more extreme ends of the shipping war, which makes me really sad. It seems like a miserable way to be, honestly.
 
L

loozzer

Pro Adventurer
andover said:
SH

Let’s remember Aerith spoke about Zack FIRST on her date to Cloud and says it’s okay he isn’t like Zack she wants to be with Cloud to his face. My guess is you didn’t watch it. Also she doesn’t lie. The flashback plays, she says after, “I think so?” That implies from her tone that it happened but isn’t too sure why it matters this is proven by her saying “but not about anything important” which means that she did not consider the conversation about Zack to be touchy like Tifa makes it sound in her date. Even if Aerith DID lie, before Cloud even asks if she spoke to Tifa, let me repeat she talks about about Zack and how it’s okay Cloud isn’t him because she wants to be with Cloud now NOT Zack. You’re being willfully obtuse because you ship Cloud and Tifa and that’s okay. Fact is, Tifa did not have to blatantly lie the way she did. She says she was not able to talk to Aerith yet by her saying “not yet”, when we see the flashback just before she in fact DID talk to Aerith. Also Marlene says Aerith likes Cloud to Zack and he has to get Cloud better or he can’t save Aerith. So clearly whatever choices you make Aerith likes Cloud regardless and not Zack now. Why else have Marlene say that. Good luck with the rest of the game since you can play it for yourself instead of seeing out of context clips and opinionated discord shipping channels.
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can you please tell us why you don't think that cloud just genuinely wanted to know if aerith got the news about zack being alive with cloud 5 years ago? and that he genuinely wants to know because he's her friend not because he's interested in her?

and can you also tell us why you think the reason tifa lied was because she has feelings for cloud and not because she's worried about cloud's mental health.

like you keep ignoring these two really big issues lol. i feel like i've asked you multiple times and you just change the subject on me. like if you have an argument then i'd actually be interested in hearing it
 
Ruri

Ruri

Pro Adventurer
r_monk said:
Trawling through every little detail in a creative work in order to unearth "evidence" that supposedly further proves your existing bias, IMO, is one of the worst ways to experience any sort of fiction. This is what drives me up the fucking wall when it comes to shipping in any fandom. Just trust the narrative, trust the writers, and let them guide you through the story and the characters in them.

In any work of fiction, there's a contract between creator and reader—that trust needs to exist for the work to be expansive and experienced in full. It's so clear there's zero fucking trust for the creators in the more extreme ends of the shipping war, which makes me really sad. It seems like a miserable way to be, honestly.
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Real. It's not reading between the lines, it's jumped gymnastics over them to twist the narrative that has the rest of us reeling and going 'huh'?

Really happy we are on the week of the game. Thursday cannot come fast enough so we can finally have some discourse with the legit product.
 
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