SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Nal]

How are they coming to this conclusion? But fine, assuming that’s the case… how do they square away that Cloud joined SOLDIER for Tifa. That he protected her in disguise, and basically fulfilled the promise he made to her?

They say he lost feelings once he met Aerith im not kidding

 

[GamerSkull]

They say he lost feelings once he met Aerith im not kidding

I mean, I think that’s more of a case where he forgot them due to the Jenova cells.

 

[r_monk]

How are they coming to this conclusion? But fine, assuming that’s the case… how do they square away that Cloud joined SOLDIER for Tifa. That he protected her in disguise, and basically fulfilled the promise he made to her?

Well, too be fair, there was a localization/translation issue in the very first incarnation of OG. When he's talking about her friend group in the Lifestream, the initial translation (I can't find the screens, sorry) says something like "I wanted to play, but you wouldn't let me join." Which apparently was a mistranslation that was later rectified in the ports. My memory fails me but I think they changed it to something like the other kids wouldn't let him in, not specifically Tifa.

But considering the changes in all the modern ports, I have no idea. I think it just neatly fits into the narrative of "popular girl surrounded by boys doesn't give loner weirdo the time of day" even if it isn't true at all in Tifa's case. It's just wild that FFVII upended so many typical tropes within the JRPG genre and people still somehow failed to grasp it.

 

[Nal]

I mean, I think that’s more of a case where he forgot them due to the Jenova cells.

it seems remake is changing that from OG even with the solider persona, he very much is into Tifa

 

[GamerSkull]

Well, too be fair, there was a localization/translation issue in the very first incarnation of OG. When he's talking about her friend group in the Lifestream, the initial translation (I can't find the screens, sorry) says something like "I wanted to play, but you wouldn't let me join." Which apparently was a mistranslation that was later rectified in the ports. My memory fails me but I think they changed it to something like the other kids wouldn't let him in, not specifically Tifa.

But considering the changes in all the modern ports, I have no idea. I think it just neatly fits into the narrative of "popular girl surrounded by boys doesn't give loner weirdo the time of day" even if it isn't true at all in Tifa's case. It's just wild that FFVII upended so many typical tropes within the JRPG genre and people still somehow failed to grasp it.

Do those shippers not check the transcripts though? You’d think making sure to research all aspects of the dialogue they need to provide evidence would be a must if they wish to downplay Cloud’s past with Tifa.

it seems remake is changing that from OG even with the solider persona, he very much is into Tifa

I think Remake is mixing the two personas a bit better, rather than having one completely supplant the other.

 

[r_monk]

Do those shippers not check the transcripts though? You’d think making sure to research all aspects of the dialogue they need to provide evidence would be a must if they wish to downplay Cloud’s past with Tifa.

They obsessively (selectively) check the transcripts

 

[Nal]

Do those shippers not check the transcripts though? You’d think making sure to research all aspects of the dialogue they need to provide evidence would be a must if they wish to downplay Cloud’s past with Tifa.

They pick or choose what translations they want to use and which language
and if they dont agree, like with all the ultimania stuff on highwind and lifestream, those two only
in the entire book its a mistranslation
or not the canon choice so doesnt matter

 

[billy22]

I'm convinced Nojima lurks on FFVII forums and got fed up with what he was reading.

• "Tifa was only in love with Fake Cloud"
  
• "Tifa doesn't have a story apart from Cloud"
• "Cloud's feelings were always platonic"
• "Tifa used to bully Clo-" You know what, I have several book ideas now

You forgot an old favorite:

• "Even if he did get with Tifa, she was his second choice and was only using her..."Nojima: hey so, I have this quirky date idea for Tifa now...

 

[Nal]

Do those shippers not check the transcripts though? You’d think making sure to research all aspects of the dialogue they need to provide evidence would be a must if they wish to downplay Cloud’s past with Tifa.



I think Remake is mixing the two personas a bit better, rather than having one completely supplant the other.

Yeah that's one part I really like about remake as a whole and in Rebirth. its very interesting

 

[Nal]

You forgot an old favorite:

• Even if he did get with Tifa, she was his second choice and was only using her...Nojima: hey so, I have this quirky date idea for Tifa now...

yeah they use that a lot, like that previous dude made an essay about

 

[jdaod135]

just here to add fuel to the fire, but i need y’all see the sector 5 CA dream date with your own eyes. there’s A LOT of things that happen , and they aren’t good in any matter for a certain side iykyk. excited to see what their arguments for this to be.

 

[GamerSkull]

They obsessively (selectively) check the transcripts

I’ve always saw it as “the obvious love interest is not the actual one”. Especially with how they build it up and even have Cait Sith affirm it with his fortune telling. It’s there almost as a red herring imo.

So… I mean, if shippers are checking dialogue, they would see things like when Cait Sith says they have an incredible future according to the stars…. as a misdirection, right?

So many examples of this in the game.

 

[Nal]

just here to add fuel to the fire, but i need y’all see the sector 5 CA dream date with your own eyes. there’s A LOT of things that happen , and they aren’t good in any matter for a certain side iykyk. excited to see what their arguments for this to be.

I honestly think they may have gone a bit to far with this. Its one thing i dont agree with even if they did end The LTD with it

 

[Nal]

I’ve always saw it as “the obvious love interest is not the actual one”. Especially with how they build it up and even have Cait Sith affirm it with his fortune telling. It’s there almost as a red herring imo.

So… I mean, if shippers are checking dialogue, they would see things like when Cait Sith says they have an incredible future according to the stars…. as a misdirection, right?

So many examples of this in the game.

No they use that as evidence the fortune

Spoiler

which may or may not be in this game

 

[GamerSkull]

No they use that as evidence the fortune

Spoiler

which may or may not be in this game

The problem is the fortune itself. Cait Sith says (paraphrasing because it’s been so long), that Aerith and Cloud are compatible and poor Tifa.

But in the same fortune, he also states they have a great future together… which can’t be true since she dies in a matter of days. So it’s a red herring.

 

[GamerSkull]

I honestly think they may have gone a bit to far with this. Its one thing i dont agree with even if they did end The LTD with it

I think it’s a good decision to end the LTD, especially now that we have gaps between installments and there needs to be more of a setup for what will eventually happen later. Better to end it so they can show the scenes they want without constantly having to make it as ambiguous as possible,

 

[faefolk]

Yeah, that just isn't in character for Cloud. He does not strike me as someone who'd be petty and act on said pettiness to the point of leading someone else on. Like.... wut.

The 'Cloud is just a cad' cope is not ideal lmao

 

[r_monk]

I’ve always saw it as “the obvious love interest is not the actual one”. Especially with how they build it up and even have Cait Sith affirm it with his fortune telling. It’s there almost as a red herring imo.

So… I mean, if shippers are checking dialogue, they would see things like when Cait Sith says they have an incredible future according to the stars…. as a misdirection, right?

So many examples of this in the game.

Hmm... I'm not sure. I'm inclined to agree somewhat, but I do think the original did want to frame Cloud x Aerith as a tragic couple that never was. I do think that he had feelings for her in the early portion of the game, albeit ones that were a bit confused and jumbled due to his messed up mental state and identity crisis (which also spilled over into Aerith's perception of him).

I think yeah, maybe, it was a slight misdirection in light of how Cloud and TIfa's relationship later deepens and all that's revealed about young Cloud's feelings that he happened to forget. I don't know! I'm of two minds. I think the original was a slightly different game/story in that sense. Goes back to my whole spiel about overlapping love and unexpected developments + retroactive realizations. I think all of it is true and possible and wonderfully messy even if Tifa was the one he ultimately ended up with.

 

[eggbeans]

I honestly think they may have gone a bit to far with this. Its one thing i dont agree with even if they did end The LTD with it

From what I’ve read so far it sounds brutal and makes me feel bad for aerith

 

[Nal]

I think it’s a good decision to end the LTD, especially now that we have gaps between installments and there needs to be more of a setup for what will eventually happen later. Better to end it so they can show the scenes they want without constantly having to make it as ambiguous as possible,

It is great to end it but its

Spoiler

very brutal on Aerith im not gonna lie here

 

[Nal]

From what I’ve read so far it sounds brutal and makes me feel bad for aerith

i think thats what they are going for but its a bit much its going to be very controversial

 

[r_monk]

It is great to end it but its

Spoiler

very brutal on Aerith im not gonna lie here

Without revealing too much, is it still brutal despite the apparent difference in the japanese and english translations?

 

[Nal]

The problem is the fortune itself. Cait Sith says (paraphrasing because it’s been so long), that Aerith and Cloud are compatible and poor Tifa.

But in the same fortune, he also states they have a great future together… which can’t be true since she dies in a matter of days. So it’s a red herring.

Yeah it seems the hardcore shippers dont really understand storytelling unless it fits there Bias

 

[Nal]

Without revealing too much, is it still brutal despite the apparent difference in the japanese and english translations?

Spoiler

Clouds dialogue is slightly different Aeriths reaction is the same either way though but that conversation is not the worst bit.
Japanese is a lot more brutal its what happens before this conversation thats yeah

 

[GamerSkull]

Hmm... I'm not sure. I'm inclined to agree somewhat, but I do think the original did want to frame Cloud x Aerith as a tragic couple that never was. I do think that he had feelings for her in the early portion of the game, albeit ones that were a bit confused and jumbled due to his messed up mental state and identity crisis (which also spilled over into Aerith's perception of him).

I think yeah, maybe, it was a slight misdirection in light of how Cloud and TIfa's relationship later deepens and all that's revealed about young Cloud's feelings that he happened to forget. I don't know! I'm of two minds. I think the original was a slightly different game/story in that sense. Goes back to my whole spiel about overlapping love and unexpected developments + retroactive realizations. I think all of it is true and possible and wonderfully messy even if Tifa was the one he ultimately ended up with.

I agree. I think there definitely is a burgeoning romance between Cloud and Aerith. I think that’s what causes her loss to be so tragic. But I also simultaneously feel like it was meant to a red herring of sorts, when we start seeing more of Cloud’s identity and realize that he had really strong feelings for Tifa that the Jenova Cells kept buried underneath his psyche.